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[6tennis]

cp'ed from first nom because laziness

honk honk honk, here comes conk

Conkeldurr @ Assault Vest
Ability: Guts
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Adamant Nature
- Drain Punch
- Mach Punch
- Knock Off
- Ice Punch

it's a tank. it beats p2. it beats gren. it beats thund. it takes hits and softens up checks for mence to sweep, e.g. ferro and basically every steel type ever LMAO. ye

 

[ProjectTitan313]

Scarf Rotom-H just won the poll and made it on the team. Item clause means no Scarf Heracross. :P

Oh, thought it was Heatran sorry
Throw that out a window then, Guts Fighting mon is pretty much our ideal filler and Conk is the best pick with Scarf gone.

edit: 252 HP / 4 Def probably isn't the best spread for AV Conk but that can be fixed later, iirc a spread like 124 HP / 132 Sp. Def or something is the highest overall bulk with max Atk.

 

[cant say]

Sooner that than Talonflame because we can just run something fast for Greninja. Also now we have a special attacker yay.

Speaking of fast things, imma nom my Weavile from a few rounds back again because it beats Greninja and Gengar in one slot and helps against Garchomp too. I'll hold off until after discussion phase tho

How is Talonflame an issue with the combined threat of Rotom-H, Azumarill and Ferrothorn? I see those in Team Preview and I'm not bringing Talon at all unless there's something in the team that you absolutely need Talon to kill (which we don't have [yet]).

As for Greninja and Gengar, Scarf Heatom is actually pretty decent against them with its really fast Volt Switch. Gengar is also a prime target for Salamence to set up on so we don't want to threaten it too much.

---

As for the team, we've managed to come up with a FireWaterGrass + DragonSteelFairy core with 4 Pokemon, which actually gives us some decent defensive synergy with that alone, and allows us to now concentrate on more specific threats to the team, and by that I mean Salamence since I'm working under the assumption that he is what the team's all about. For the 5th slot I'd like one more glue mon and then for the 6th I think we should look at a backup mega.

Right now the problems I'm seeing are Thundurus, Banded / Sash+SD Garchomp, Greninja (still), and Mamoswine (ok yeah our FWG core handles it but I'd still deem it threatening). There are also some team archetypes that I reckon we suck against (P2 + M-Maw TR, HipDraLuc, stall) but my solution to those (SpD Talon) conflicts with Rotom-H way too much and I have no other ideas so I'm just going to focus on the specific threats I mentioned above.

v2 (Porygon2) @ Eviolite
Ability: Trace
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
- Foul Play
- Ice Beam
- Thunder Wave
- Recover

I've been using this with my current SpD Mence team and it's sick. It straight up beats Thundurus (except those weird SubToxic ones but what does?), Garchomp, Greninja, and Mamoswine, paving the way for Salamence to set up and sweep. We also have no Ice coverage on the team at all (I personally think Rotom should have HP Ice over Trick) but I don't think adding an Ice-type Mon is the best answer. I personally like Trace because you get things like Prankster, Rough Skin, Intimidate, Parental Bond, Levitate, Multiscale and Protean (can actually ruin you though if you T-wave and a Garchomp comes in lol) to take advantage of, but I know Download is cool and a lot of people like it so I'm open to changing it.

 

[Omastar68]

cp'ed from first nom because laziness

honk honk honk, here comes conk

Conkeldurr @ Assault Vest
Ability: Guts
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Adamant Nature
- Drain Punch
- Mach Punch
- Knock Off
- Ice Punch

it's a tank. it beats p2. it beats gren. it beats thund. it takes hits and softens up checks for mence to sweep, e.g. ferro and basically every steel type ever LMAO. ye

I was just about to mention this lol. I favored Rotom-h last round(And the one before that,) but Conk seems to work good on this team.

The main issue I think is Mence. I've mentioned before it's pretty threatening. Possible DM or Outrage to muscle past our Mence, which doesn't do enough back especialy if Intimidated. Azu isn't really an answer. 50% chance unboosted DE ohkos it from full, while CB Azu's PR is only a 25% chance vs not bulky Mence, and 10% to miss. Ferro fears the odd, but not that odd, fire move. Blast is 23% and Flamethrower is 5, or thereabouts. Rotom-h is normally quite solid, but only if its lost the scarf. Otherwise it basically has to WoW and switch or VS out.

So anyways I just don't think it's a good idea to not cover the #7 mon. Mawile I agree with cant say. It's pretty tricky at least with P2, tho I guess our own P2 really doesn't help with those. Mawile at least, Toxic can mess up mirrors.

So...maybe not perfect, but how is Blaziken? I feel like Thuns and Talon are properly answered atm, which helps cuz those are mean to Blazi.

Blazi can outspeed and often beat Gren after a Spe boost, tho it has trouble with Water Shuriken and Shadow Sneak if it goes for a fighting move. Mawile really doesn't appreciate Flare B;itz, and llikes Overheat from the mixed set even less. Chomp dies to HP Ice, and that also adds very important ice coverage. P2 takes quite a bit from fighting STAB, pretty much always 2hkod even by non mega Superpower.

 

[CoolStoryBrobat]

I was just about to mention this lol. I favored Rotom-h last round(And the one before that,) but Conk seems to work good on this team.

The main issue I think is Mence. I've mentioned before it's pretty threatening. Possible DM or Outrage to muscle past our Mence, which doesn't do enough back especialy if Intimidated. Azu isn't really an answer. 50% chance unboosted DE ohkos it from full, while CB Azu's PR is only a 25% chance vs not bulky Mence, and 10% to miss. Ferro fears the odd, but not that odd, fire move. Blast is 23% and Flamethrower is 5, or thereabouts. Rotom-h is normally quite solid, but only if its lost the scarf. Otherwise it basically has to WoW and switch or VS out.

So anyways I just don't think it's a good idea to not cover the #7 mon. Mawile I agree with cant say. It's pretty tricky at least with P2, tho I guess our own P2 really doesn't help with those. Mawile at least, Toxic can mess up mirrors.

So...maybe not perfect, but how is Blaziken? I feel like Thuns and Talon are properly answered atm, which helps cuz those are mean to Blazi.

Blazi can outspeed and often beat Gren after a Spe boost, tho it has trouble with Water Shuriken and Shadow Sneak if it goes for a fighting move. Mawile really doesn't appreciate Flare B;itz, and llikes Overheat from the mixed set even less. Chomp dies to HP Ice, and that also adds very important ice coverage. P2 takes quite a bit from fighting STAB, pretty much always 2hkod even by non mega Superpower.

Would you really wanna suggest a Blaziken after putting on a Rotom-H though? Blaziken still has no means of switching into an opposing Salamence (and switching into Greninja is a risk too) and needs a boost to outrun and kill opposing Mence with HP Ice. The only favorable situation for Blaziken vs. Mence is if Blaziken is already in and boosted either before or during the switch to Salamence...otherwise you lose to it in a pure 1v1 scenario...Protect can be a fairly obvious play and they just click Dragon Dance, meaning you're still outsped and prone to dying, or they just go straight for the kill move on you from the jump. We'd be better off just carrying HP Ice on Scarf Rotom and killing two birds with one stone (or Hidden Power).

 

[ethan06]

How is Talonflame an issue with the combined threat of Rotom-H, Azumarill and Ferrothorn? I see those in Team Preview and I'm not bringing Talon at all unless there's something in the team that you absolutely need Talon to kill (which we don't have [yet]).

...which is why we added Rotom instead of Conk, yes. Azumarill can sometimes beat Talon but takes a hefty chunk from Brave Bird and Ferro either gets burned or Flare Blitzed. With Conk we would have had a nasty Talonflame weakness as someone else mentioned, but now we've traded it for a Greninja weakness which is a fine trade considering the discrepancy in usage and Greninja's lack of good priority (needs 5 hits and investment to reliably KO Blaziken with Water Shuriken). Rotom's never been anything other than a solid counter to Talonflame, I'm surprised that you'd assume I didn't know that :s

Anyway... c/ping Weavile

Weavile @ Life Orb
Ability: Pressure
Level: 50
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Fake Out
- Ice Shard
- Knock Off
- Low Kick

You can't switch into Greninja with anything that isn't named Chansey, and Chansey doesn't fit this offensive and hard-hitting team at all so here's a more offensive approach to checking it. Lead with it on a predicted Greninja lead, Fake out into Low Kick KOs. If it's had a type change, Knock Off does an even better job. This also brings a handy Dark STAB, Fighting coverage and some extra priority to help us handle the likes of Gengar, Aegislash, Garchomp, Thundurus, Cresselia, Tyranitar, Lati@s, chipped Heatran, Hydreigon, offensive Talonflame (always good to have more options)... with Azumarill covered thanks to Ferrothorn, Weavile synergises well and brings another strong speedy mon to the team to complement Scarf Rotom.

 

[Omastar68]

Weavile seems really good. Maybe I shouldn't even mention it now, but I was thinking about specially defensive Thund.

I've used it before and it's my favorite set. Swagger gives Gren a good chance to hurt itself, and litte benefit vs. Thund itself. Even if it doesn't hurt itself in confusion Thund can take an IB from full, and then possibly t-wave the next turn to really mess with the Gren(tho I think t-wave isn't that necessary on a mostly fast team where one of the two slow things has Gyro Ball. Was thinking Discharge for electric STAB while maintaining a chance to para.) Mence does pretty bad vs Thund, especially if HP Ice is run. Garchomp is a bit of a problem though since a specially defensive Thund probably can't take an Outrage, and doesn't go first either. Not that its HP Ice would be strong enough anyways...

Priority Swagger also messes with lots of other stuff like Aegi, Gengar, Tran, and Hydra, and SpD Thund generally handles other variants quite well since it takes they're t-bolts a bit better than they take its(not sure with Discharge, but prolly.) Even without a lot of physical bulk or SpA Thun handles Talon very well, and it has a fairly diverse movepool with stuff to hit things that might be problematic like Mamo.

EDIT: I think Magnet Rise Klefki would be better. Still annoying Prankster Swagger for special attackers, and no weakness vs any of Gren's most common moves. Also beats Mence and Chomp better, plus synerhizes well with the team type wise0Ferro is also weak to fire, but there are 3 resists, and many fire types dislike Swagger antics.

 

[a0161613]

What I'd like to raise is the possibility of a sand core to round this off. Mega Mence fits well with this core very well not least due to a combination of Intimidate and Aerialate STAB that threaten fighting types. What I like is the idea that Ttar (over Hippo for the following reason) can be specially based and maintain its' threat. Excadrill can be the well renowned Sand Rush Life Orb threat but Ttar can wield useful tech like Taunt and Stealth Rock as well as STAB Dark Pulse plus common coverage like Ice Beam or Flamethrower. Special Ttar also wields dangerous STAB Stone Edge or Rock Slide for threats like Talonflame because of the massive attack stat gives a massive KO possibility. I'm not sure on the set specifics for Ttar but think a sand core would be a neat idea.

OK so the nomination phase can begin now and will end on Thursday evening. I can include the detailed suggestions made so far.

 

[6tennis]

a#, I'm not liking that core's synergy with the rest of the team. The mons we have right now are more or less toolbox mons: Ferro to deal with some nasty physical attackers and provide defensive synergy, Azumarill to soften threats and provide priority, and Rotom-H to check Talonflame and pivot all over the place. If we run a sand core, we'd normally be running it with another 3-mon core, but we aren't. Additionally, if we want to bring a sand core, we'd have to forego the 3 other mons, as the sand core absolutely needs those 3 to function. As such, I think the team would get more if we added Conk and maybe one other mon.

 

[cant say]

What does Conkeldurr provide to the team exactly? You've pushed for it a lot in this thread but I'm just not buying it.

 

[a0161613]

Well technically we have two cores already. And sand plus Mence is a known core too.

Maybe I'm looking at it a little simplistically but I can see the appeal.

 

[Omastar68]

Klefki @ Leftovers/ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP/ 4 Def/ 252 SpD
Calm Nature
- Foul Play
- Swagger
- Magnet Rise
- Substitute/ Toxic/ T-Wave

So I'd like it if Ferro could be Helmet so we have Lefties free, but I think Helmet or something might be ok. EVs are for taking special attackers, since Klefki is muh better vs those. 236 SpD gets nearly the same percentages to live most stuff, but I'm not sure any extra Def helps with anything-Kang and Mence both still 2hko with DE. SwagPlay is very common on Klefki(interestingly only about 50% run Foul Play.) Really hurts special attackers, and gives some chance vs. physical attackers. Magnet Rise is largely for Chomp, which is a problem. It helps a bit with Mence I guess, but DE from max Atk 2hkos with room to spare, so that doesn't really matter. It does a couple other things, like against Excadrill and Hydra that lock themselves into EP instead of Fire Blast cuz accuracy. Last slot I like Sub if Lefties, otherwise I think I favor Toxic for stuff like Cress and Rotoms. T-Wave synergizes nice with Swagger, tho not really with the team itself as I said earlier. Other moves can be used, mainly Dual Screens or just Reflect(mayb even Light Screen since this team seems to favor physical Def a tad.)

Klefki completely walls all but HP Fire Gren, and is even fine against those. You start with Swagger since that gives them a 50% to attack themselves(Always do that with special attackers, better than leading t-Wave. And even tho Gren has Low Kick sometimes that's only 20 BP vs Klefki, so not really a problem even at +2.) Then you can really just kill with a FP or two, mayb opt for t-wave first if running that. This set also deals pretty well with most Chomp, as even boosted rock moves won't do much, and many Chomp either lack a fire move or have weaker special ones. Kang is kinda always a problem, at least with nothing that can just outrun and ohko it. Klefki doesn't take much from Kang, but usually deals at least 4 hits of Helmet recoil if going with that item. Other special attackers like Aegi and Lati twins also fear Klefki, and the previously mentioned P2 really hates Toxic, and even Swagger. Basically, non-fire special attacker=yay, as do quite a few physical attackers.

 

[6tennis]

y'know i'd actually be totally okay with nomming a ttar but i think adding excadrill too is a bit overkill. we'll see, i guess.

Reserving Mega TTar.

 

[a0161613]

Nomination #1
Sand Rush Tyranitar and Excadrill

Tyranitar @ Weakness Policy
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 100 HP / 252 Atk / 40 Def / 68 SpA / 48 SpD
Brave Nature
- Rock Slide
- Crunch
- Ice Beam
- Protect

Excadrill @ Life Orb
Ability: Sand Rush
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Iron Head
- Rock Slide
- Swords Dance

So the logic with this is sound although I do think there is room for Tyranitar's set to be optimised. I picked the spread from Nugget Bridge which means it hits VGC benchmarks but I figured this offers more than a standard 252 / 252. Tyranitar's attack stat means that Rock Slide with a 31 attack IV with a Timid nature still KO's a bulky Talonflame 100% of the time. I mention this because I think we could use another special attacker. The item is also flexible as a life orb is popular.

Excadrill would probably like a Scarf and Mold Breaker but its' Life Orb set is dangerous. Drill in sand will force switches so it can exploit Swords Dance too.

I've thought about Clefable a lot for this too and based on its' on-going analysis, I like this set the most.

Nomination#2

Support Clefable

move 1: Moonblast
move 2: Thunder Wave
move 3: Moonlight / Encore / Stealth Rock
move 4: Encore / Fire Blast / Heal Bell / Healing Wish / Stealth Rock
item: Sitrus Berry / Rocky Helmet / Leftovers
ability: Unaware
nature: Calm
evs: 236 HP / 164 Def / 108 SpD

Obviously Stealth Rock isn't needed as much for us and I think Encore could be dead useful so I've rearranged the slashes to suit. I see this as the perfect switch in to Dark and Psychic types as well as Fighting types if we go for Helmet.

 

[a0161613]

Going to extend this until Saturday evening.

 

[a0161613]

Nominations for the 5th round:

6tennis
AV Conkeldurr
Mega Tyranitar
cant say
Porygon2
ethan06
Life Orb Weavile
Omastar68
SwagPlay Klefki W/ Magnet Rise
Numbers (me)
Sand Rush Excadrill plus Support Mixed Tyranitar
Support Clefable

Voting open until Wednesday evening.

 

[Demantoid]

Porygon2

 

[Omastar68]

LO Weavile

 

[NOVED]

a#'s Tyranitar and Excadrill

Not a fan of the ttar set though

 

[jroxas]

Porygon2 because we need more switch-in potential pretty badly.

 

[Pyritie]

Porygon2 because of what jroxas said

 

[6tennis]

p2

 

[a0161613]

I have to say P2 is a great shout and it would a fine addition. I'm not sure it solves the problems entirely and is the ultimate switch-solution by itself, which is why I liked Klefki and Clef too.

 

[CoolStoryBrobat]

Porygon2

 

[Fischgrat]

Also voting for Porygon2.