Serious LGBTQ

[elcheeso]

Not exactly. I don't think anyone has made the case that we need to be calling black people the nigga community. Queer is more identity based than nigga, which is probably more akin to the word fag in terms of being a slur that people actually refer to each other as in conversation... though fag is definitely not even close to majority in terms of a slur people are down with reclaiming.

Re: Above edit - then yeah, that's pretty much it.

 

[Solace]

imo the use of "queer" is simple: if someone tells you they don't like it, don't refer to them as queer. it isn't that much harder to say the lgbt community. at the same time, however, a lot of people do use it as an umbrella term, and in that case context matters. if a member of the lgbt community is saying "queer people," i would assume that they mean to reclaim the word, and don't mean it maliciously.

 

[Lord Death Man]

i dont like the word queer because its been used violently against me in the past to oppress me for my sexual orientation. the term 'queer community' is intensely alienating for that reason.

i also have zero issue with white gay men choosing which terms to self identify with. queer has been used as a slur, so queer is a slur, queer was a slur, and pressuring people to identify with a slur that's so often violently used against us is ridiculous. huge amounts of men who love men dont identify as gay for the same reason, and their choice is valid. queer is useless as a label if we cant choose to resist it as a personal identifier without feeling as though we're betraying ourselves and our communities.

 

[arugalove]

i think "queer" is nice b/c it encompasses both gender identity and sexual orientation. LGBT+ and discourses like "gay rights" both really narrowed down what we could call the "LGBTQ movement" that, if you look at it historically, came out of the struggles of predominantly trans people of color (e.g. the stonewall riots). that narrowing wasn't an accident, it was a conscious co-optation by white gays to make the "movement" more palatable to the mainstream. by abstracting sesual orientation from gender identity, cis gays were able to say "see, we're not perverts like those men in dresses; we're normal, we're just like you." so i really like queer because for something like, LGBT, the "T" really feels like rather an afterthought, whereas i think it should actually be central to how we articulate queer/LGBT+ etc. struggle. (i'm also saying this as a cis person myself so if trans folks wanna weigh in on this, that's great)

w/r/t how "queer" can be alienating to some folks, that's legit. i think it's ok for ppl in any community to have heterogeneous ways of seeing and naming themselves. it's always going to be a contentious issue of whether or not we can "reclaim" slurs and like what are the stakes of that, just like how black folks disagree about the n-word.

also hi everyone

 

[skies]

what do you guys think of gay men saying (BAN ME PLEASE), gay women saying dyke, and trans people saying (BAN ME PLEASE)? i don't know if it's just me, but i have noticed controversy in the lgbt community for it. my opinion is that if you fall under the category of what the slur is, you can use it. it's not in a hateful way to say (BAN ME PLEASE) as a gay man, while it is hateful from a straight man.

food for thought

 

[HailFall]

I mean thats the same sort of thing thats happening when people say qu*er so as i sad before, imo you can say those slurs and reclaim them if you are a member of the targeted group, but you should not use them against others. Thats why i have such an issue with the term "qu*er community"-- its literally like saying "f*g community" or "tr*nny community". Feel free to use these words about yourself but dont force it onto others that may have been hurt by these slurs.

 

[billymills]

What happened to cookie 's censor circumvent?

This conversation looks silly if you can't even say the words you are discussing.

 

[Icing On Da Cake]

People are way too sensitive about words imo, if you're hurt by these words, grow a spine and focus on actual active oppression (like people getting executed for being gay or having their rights trampled on) instead of the words of bigoted tards

 

[billymills]

Comparing people to invertebrates is offensive and inappropriate here.

An offensive statement from one person is one thing, but using some phrases carelessly can lead to people feeling excluded. I want to see this forum capable of openly discussing all issues that lead to discrimination.

 

[Outlaw]

what do you guys think of gay men saying (BAN ME PLEASE), gay women saying dyke, and trans people saying (BAN ME PLEASE)? i don't know if it's just me, but i have noticed controversy in the lgbt community for it. my opinion is that if you fall under the category of what the slur is, you can use it. it's not in a hateful way to say (BAN ME PLEASE) as a gay man, while it is hateful from a straight man.

food for thought

That's not very good logic. If someone wants to be called queer, how is it hateful for a non-queer person to call them that?

Hint: It's not.

 

[ChucklePackage]

People are way too sensitive about words imo, if you're hurt by these words, grow a spine and focus on actual active oppression (like people getting executed for being gay or having their rights trampled on) instead of the words of bigoted tards

When words are used in demeaning and insulting ways, it's immensely hard to "grow a spine" and get over it, especially when such words are used as verbal weaponry. Bullying is not a rare occurrence anywhere, and hateful words are often compounded with physical violence and other forms of abuse. Another thing to note is that we're on a forum, so the writer's intended tone isn't always replicated when readers see the text. People read those words differently, and personal experience can have an effect on how hostile they perceive the words as.

And about your comment about focusing on "bigger" problems: I agree execution is a big issue, but it doesn't mean people shouldn't spend time, energy, and effort trying to solve less violent issues. Dispelling the use of derogatory words is sometimes a stepping stone to preventing hate-induced violent behavior.

TLDR; words can trigger personal experience (such as bullying). We have more than one problem; just because one had a more permanent outcome, doesn't mean we have/can focus our efforts on the more intense problem.

Sorry if this was convoluted.

 

[Soul Fly]

People are way too sensitive about words imo, if you're hurt by these words, grow a spine and focus on actual active oppression (like people getting executed for being gay or having their rights trampled on) instead of the words of bigoted tards

if you carefully apply a little something called logic you would come to a stunning realization that the two aren't a mutually exclusive either-or.

like...... you can do both. :O

mind-blowing right?

I know. You're welcome.

 

[billymills]

Anyone wishing to use the word fаggot as a discussion piece is welcome to copy it from this post to circumvent the censor. Please do not use it to harass other users.

 

[Minwu]

I think it is easy enough to tell which of the two censored words are being used in the context of this thread, but thanks regardless Deck!

 

[billymills]

I find censoring of words silly and pointless. I mean it's straight out of Harry Potter.

As you've said, you know exactly what words are being used. Why let the moderators decide how words should be used, by setting the basis that they should be ban worthy rather than discussing them ourselves? Why poison the well on discussion?

I am only advocating de-censoring words when it is explicitly obvious which words are being used. I am not advocating their wider use. I would appreciate if you could attack my argument rather than making indirect personal attacks.

 

[blank]

what do you guys think of gay men saying (BAN ME PLEASE), gay women saying dyke, and trans people saying (BAN ME PLEASE)? i don't know if it's just me, but i have noticed controversy in the lgbt community for it. my opinion is that if you fall under the category of what the slur is, you can use it. it's not in a hateful way to say (BAN ME PLEASE) as a gay man, while it is hateful from a straight man.

food for thought

if someone doesn't want people using words, they shouldn't use those words themselves. i rarely use the word (BAN ME PLEASE) to refer to myself, but when i do, it's usually with close friends in a sorta ironic / jokey way. even with that said, the type of stuff i say with friends is sorta an exception because it's in a "private space" between a handful of people. we'll use offensive words and make racist jokes about each other (both irl and online), but we don't speak that way with just anyone because between us, we know we aren't offending each other.

as far as outside of small groups of friends, i'd absolutely never use a slur of any kind to refer to myself or to another person, regardless if i'm "allowed" to use that slur or not based on being part of some "category". using a slur on another person (even if we're both part of the same "category") could be pretty rude / offensive lol. when it comes to calling myself one of those words or just using those words in general, what i said in the first sentence applies :p. someone using words to refer to themselves with & then getting offended when someone uses those same words to refer to them is almost as if that person is putting themselves above someone else for something as small as gender or sexuality. furthermore, if someone takes serious offense to being called a fаggot or a (BAN ME PLEASE), they shouldn't use it themselves because that'll (and rightfully so) make people think it's okay to use those words, not just for that person, but in general.

i personally don't agree with the usage of any type of slurs, so i'm not gonna go around saying (BAN ME PLEASE) or w/e because i'd prefer other people not call me those things. with that said, i don't really care much about being called slurs like that... that doesn't mean i'm okay with it or something, but if someone's trying to insult me and the only thing they can come up with is a slur about race / gender / sexuality (things out of my control), why should i care lol.

on the topic of words and stuff in general, i think queer is a fine umbrella term, but i don't really get why we have to have LGBTQIA+ or whatever it is now lol. from what i've seen, queer just sorta means "out of the ordinary", so using it as an umbrella term for sexualities (LGBA) makes sense. when it comes to genders, i don't personally see it as appropriate to use for trans people. one of the main points of mtf an ftm transitions is for that person to feel comfort and normality in regards to their body... labeling us as queer sorta makes that redundant imo. our genders aren't "mtf" and "ftm"... they're female and male. obviously there are differences between a transgender person and a cisgender person of the same gender (as in one had to transition duh), but there's already a label so people know that difference: transgender >.>. so yeah, i don't get why people have to complicate things about transgender people when it's just male and female like cisgender people... just the fact that transgender people transition (in some way) to get their body to match and stuff.

 

[Adamant Zoroark]

Slurs are words which are used to deliberately offend people in virtually any context, so someone in the group described by the slur will be offended by some random person using it, even if another person in the group is the one using it. I don't buy into the PC rhetoric of making things as inoffensive as possible, but when you get into the territory of deliberately offending people, that's when several lines have been crossed. Even when the individual using it is a member of the group, the blade is still as sharp as when anyone else uses it. This isn't even something like whatever Russell Crowe or Ricky Gervais tweeted this week because, while their tweets are tactless, they aren't made with the intent to deliberately offend people. Slurs, on the other hand, have typically been used for the sole purpose of offending people.

I feel like this is why there's a shitstorm every other page on this thread regarding the inclusion of the term "queer" in this thread. While currently it's used as an umbrella term, that wasn't the case until very recently. Before that, it was used as a slur - which, again, is a kind of word used with the intent of deliberately offending - and a lot of people still have that stuck in their head. It's very difficult to stop associating these words with such harmful connotations, especially among those most affected by the word. If you want to reclaim slurs, you do that, but it's important to know that people won't stop seeing the word negatively overnight.

 

[KM]

words without context mean nothing.

there are many situations in which i am comfortable with another queer person calling me a fаggot, but there are far more where I am not

there are very few situations in which i would be comfortable with a straight person calling me a fаggot, but they do exist

i call myself a fаggot on a regular basis

literally any word can become a slur. it's all about the intent and the context behind the relationship between the two people involved and the situation in which the word is used. i realize this seems rather pedantic, because obviously people are using the word fаggot a lot more than they are the word "cucumber lover" as a slur, but in general i don't think issues of word ownership and reclamation should be seen as ultimatums and catch-alls. for instance, gay men are often targeted with traditionally feminine slurs like 'pussy' and 'bitch', but under the strict codes of word reclamations these words should only be used and reclaimed by female-identified persons.

{{NOTE: this is not permission for you to go out and call all your gay friends fаggots please do not do that. it's always better to air on the side of caution because you don't know the individual histories and contexts that the person you're with has with the word and how they feel about it. just don't get so uptight about hard-and-fast rules about who can use what word}}

 

[Wretched Waltz]

So, uh

when was the first time you guys realized you might not be straight

 

[fairytale]

So, uh

when was the first time you guys realized you might not be straight

Well, when I was three years old I had a crush on another boy. Around the age of 9ish I heard someone use the term gay and I asked my parents what it meant and I was like oh that's me.

 

[Bughouse]

I had a crush on a (straight) guy at summer camp when I was 9 or 10. He was from Louisiana and I was from Georgia and the camp was in North Carolina, so aside from those few weeks I never saw him. But we both went to the camp for somewhere around 5 years. The last time I think I would have seen him was when I was 14.

5 years later, my sophomore year of college... in Pennsylvania, he (a freshman) walks into my stats class and sits down next to me and says hi. He's still handsome but definitely less cute than 10 year old me thought 10 year old him was.

 

[Venerable Swede]

So, uh

when was the first time you guys realized you might not be straight

I don't think I even knew what straight meant until I was a teenager, but I started having some funny feelings about other boys when I was probably 8 or 9. Nothing articulable or that I worried about until I was 11 or 12, I think.

 

[arugalove]

i try not to say f*ggot too much because words lose their oomph when they're tossed around willy-nilly. but i occasionally use it to condemn oppressive gay people. i live in the bay area and it's often terrifying to think about what people have done to san francisco and how complicit the gay community has been

 

[EV]

So, uh

when was the first time you guys realized you might not be straight

Not a fan of questions like this. Sorry to call you out directly Adiane but this has bothered me since you posted it.

Framing your question relative to discovering our non-straightness essentially assigns straightness as the default. This is probably unintentional, but it reads like you're asking the LGBTQ+ people in this thread when they became LGBTQ+.

Of course this is entirely my own opinion. Still, I find it as absurd as me asking "when did you realize you weren't gay?"

 

[HailFall]

Straight is seen as the norm in this society so most people will assume everyone else is straight (unless they fit stereotypes of gay people) and children are raised constantly having "you will fall in love with someone of the opposite gender when you grow up" nailed into their head. Its natural for people to assume they themselves are straight until something happens to make them think otherwise. I don't think that person was implying straight should be seen as the default, but that it already is and asking people what made them realize they didn't fit into that mold. In an ideal world yeah people wouldn't assume you were straight until something happens to make them think otherwise, but that's not the world we live in now. I don't really think its harmful to acknowledge that society at large sees straight as the norm as long as we ourselves don't endorse that belief. Just my opinion on the matter but yeah.