Hearthstone [IRC Channel #Skillstone]

[Omega-Xis]

Thread is kind've dead so I just thought I'd say what a scrub I am for not getting the dream.

Scrublord millionaire

Just some thoughts after playing Arena for awhile and watching/listening to others like Hafu/Kripp/ADWCTA in Old Gods:

It's a lot more balanced than LoE, even though that might sound odd when you have things like Dr. 4 running around and Shaman getting crazy buffs. I've never felt like the top classes (Rogue, Mage, Paladin and Shaman in that order) were so close. Mage really dominated GvG and BRM due to there being more spells around and it being easier to draft cards such as Flamestrikes and there being less overall cards, making it easier to draft things like Shredders and strong basic minions, like Water Ele.

Then with TGT, Paladin got Murloc Knight, which just wins games on its own when it spawns you another Murloc Knight or Warleader, and Rogue got Buccaneer and Undercity Valiant, allowing them to really clean up 2s/3s very, very efficiently and then just snowball the board from there.

I didn't care for the LoE Arena meta much, but the one thing I loved so much about it was that it stopped Warrior being a joke. Since LoE was introduced I've actually have a few 7/8 win Warrior runs. It's not the same game it was way back in the early days where you'd see people posting drafts with 4-5 weapons because you basically needed the tempo that provided to get anywhere. Sure, you still need a few, but the introduction of Obsidian Destroyer made Warrior more of a class that can go 1 for 1 (albeit not being the best at it) and play the even game and then drop Obsidian turn 7. If you're not facing a class that can deal 1 damage easily, those Scarabs can basically win you the game. Uldamann made Pali even more ridiculous than it already was. The only thing I really didn't care for was how much the Discover mechanic put a dent in the advantage that the Warlock's Hero Power provided. Yeah it's still a great hero power but when other classes can get that kind of value out of playing Discover cards, it hurts a bit. Seriously, wtf Blizz.

Now in Old Gods, I feel like the only joke class is Priest, but the "Get board or lose" element of Priest was always there. Arena is a lot more minion-based now as well, so Mage isn't quite the king it used to be. It could just be me, but I feel like I have a lot more consistency from a Mage, Pali, or Shaman in Arena. The only class specific minion right now that I feel Mage has that's better than any other is Faceless Summoner. I've actually had some shitty drafts go 8-9 wins just from drafting 2-3 of those and having a passable curve, even if I lack AoE or much draw.

Anyways, just thought I'd leave my thoughts since in my time playing Hearthstone I've probably spent more time studying/exploring value in the Arena compared to the constructed game. Hopefully this helps anyone, or maybe it's things everyone already knew, just thought I'd share.

 

[Mr.E]

Though if you wanted you could argue over which classes have the better ones, every class has access to "OP" class-exclusive cards. That said, most everybody ends up with samey decks and the difference between classes mostly comes down to Hero Power. Mage, Rogue and Paladin will always dominate Arena because they have the best Hero Powers.

 

[Acklow]

While this brawl has been done before, I just wanted to say that Naga Sea Witch is everything you want in a Warrior/Priest deck right now (if it involves big minions). Naga+Varian on turn 1 has won me a few games, and is also just an extremely strong play if you have things like Kel'Thuzad or Ysera or an Obsidian or Belcher drawn from it. Bonus points if you have Brann on the board beforehand and you play Varian.

 

[Mr.E]

Nova Doomsayer, call me the Fun Killer.

Paladin and Rogue quests weren't as kind to me, however. Actually Rogue's okay if you turn 1 Auctioneer bullshit.

 

[Minwu]

incredible

 

[Oopa]

Must have been setting up for a stampede of kodos /s

 

[qsns]

hit legend for the second time just now :)

the grind there was MUCH easier than last time, like it probably took a combined 2-2 1/2 hours to get from bottom of 2 -> legend, so hopefully that means i'm getting better at the game lol.

last leg of the ladder was done with zoo and c'thun warrior, but the only reason i switched from zoo was because i'm kinda burnt out from playing it. zoo is absolutely crazy on ladder rn because the best decks against it only have like a 55-60% winrate vs it + ladder is flooded with aggro shaman as usual and midrange hunter/tempo warrior trying to target control warrior. games are super fast too. if you're like rank 5 right now i guarantee you it'd be really easy to get to legend with zoo even with only a few days left in the season.

warrior

zoo

nothing wild with the decklists but doomguard >>>>>>>>> leeroy a million times over especially in an aggro meta. after testing with both i think the only time leeroy should be run is with double soulfire and hitting the face a lot.

 

[Matthew]

Hit legend tonight (is this a big deal anymore?) with a combination of Freeze Mage and Zoo over the past two nights. The grind today started with Freeze Mage from 3-2 and then Zoo from 2-legend. I'd say that Zoo might be one of the strongest decks at the moment but I've always been good at piloting Zoo. I disagree with lists that run Argent Squire. One drops aren't that important unless it's an aggro matchup, and even then Zoo has the strongest 1 drops in the game that don't need buffs. It's clunky and if I'm tapping I don't want to tap into fucking squire. I also dislike the lists that run Sea Giant, but that might be reminiscent of pre-WOTOG Zoo that I really loved playing. I decided that Flame Juggler was a good addition. A solid two is more important that a one and juggler fills the curve when you don't feel comfortable to play Knife and don't have a Peddler. Gormok is a must in any zoo list, if you don't think you can activate it with all these cards you're doing something really wrong and we should talk about the plays you're making. Crazed is stupid. I don't know who put that in Zoo but if you're losing to a turn 2 Doomsayer then you're also building your deck wrong. Get Brann in there and start some buff or Discover shenanigans, it also adds another three drop to the deck which is what it needs.

Freeze Mage really misses Scientist and when you draw poorly you draw fucking poorly. However I think the Shaman, Hunter, and Zoo matchups are generally favored your way in a 60/40 split. A good Doomsayer or any freeze effect puts these decks so behind that you can just draw, draw, draw, and then kill. It really feels beautiful. Though with scientist leaving there needs to be some changes to Freeze. I decided that Ice Barrier was too slow completely and removed it for double CoC in this extremely minion-based meta. I do think there is room to play around with this list but I know things like Tony cannot be run at the moment and should not be included.

 

[phil]

Is there less Warrior on NA or something? I'm playing more or less 50% Warrior these days, although a lot of it is Dragon Warrior which isn't actually that bad a matchup. Still, I'd never run Freeze Mage on EU. Also, what's your reasoning for 1 Wolf in Zoo? I always found it to be amazing the majority of the time, certainly bbetter than Flame Juggler which I always hated.

 

[Matthew]

My reasoning for wolf is that it is rarely a card I want to drop on two and if my board is rarely a conga line that benefits immensely from it. I have other buffs like brann abusive / did and power is almost always the pick from peddler so value trades shouldn't ever be an issue.

Edit:
Yes there is less Warrior on Na. It is mostly Shaman and Hunter

 

[Mr.E]

oh god you went back to the brann bullshit stahp, though I will never forget turn 4 lethal http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/hearthstone-irc-channel-skillstone.3491943/page-61#post-6726393 Seriously though you should at least play two Wolves. Even when it's not doing a fantastic conga line of "preventing you from autolosing to Ancient of War" and friends, it's still your most aggressive two-drop when you're facing the heavy control shit like C. Warrior or Freeze Mage and absolutely have to push fast damage. (Especially when you're not playing Sea Giant, yo.) If nothing else, while the HP and Taunt on Argus can be notable, the Power boost is obviously more generally important and Wolf costs half as much to do the same thing, which makes it much easier to play smoothly and effectively within your curve in a deck that thrives on mana-efficient play. See also: Dark Iron Dwarf, or Abusive in the reverse case of being the obvious first two-of inclusion.

I will also continue to dominate the mirror with mighty Dragon Egg, because honestly it's not like I'm shooting for Top X Legend and making $$$ off the HS esports scene anyway so why not.

On the note of Sea Giant, which on the one hand can make the earlygame awkward but damn it's just so good in a world with no BGH and I like it alongside Skillshire Skillman and Doomguard as things-with-big-asses-in-deck-that-mostly-has-tiny-shit as a contingency plan of sorts (fucking Warriors who run 500 whirlwind effects), I've been reconsidering Void Terror. This message is mostly a friendly reminder that the card Void Terror does, in fact, exist and might be more playable than us Zoosters are currently giving it credit (in a world with both no BGH and silence).

 

[Matthew]

I will admit fully that my list doesn't recover as well from a control deck that manages board effectively than other Zoo lists but I'm fairly confident in it's ability to burn down combo lists and other aggro easier. I was the one freeze on ladder that I saw and most are running that Dragon Warrior that only has Ghoul for WW effects.

I will admit that AoW is a big tempo sink but that should be favored anyway

 

[Mr.E]

That was perhaps a bad example because Druid gets dumpstered so hard by Zoo it's not even funny what kind of crazy bullshit I see ad nauseam from Druids-who-aren't-me and I still manage to almost always beat them. Still, Wolf is one of Zoo's best cards either to kill that sort of big shit or to ignore them (the non-taunts) and mash face hard enough to win before the opponent can stabilize. 4/2 half-charge for two mana is preeeeeetty goooooooooood.

 

[Matthew]

That doesn't negate that I find wolf clunky and don't want to run double for the same reason I don't run giants. It's a good card but it's only effective in a conga. I'd rather cards which are consistent in my zoo not something which could be good

 

[Mr.E]

I'd rather cards which are consistent in my zoo not something which could be good

 

[Omega-Xis]

This week's Tavern Brawl brought to you by Mysterious Challenger and Astral Communion Druid! Win at Turn 6 or be guaranteed to start getting big shit Turn 5!

 

[astroboy]

so, everyone knows priest is pretty shit right now (iirc it had like a 45% overall winrate and 0 tournament usage) but have you guys found anything that works for it that isnt totally overshadowed by another class?

 

[Minwu]

confessor paletress is kinda fun? divine spirit opens the door for some silly combos like with gurubashi? idk what actually *works* for priest

 

[Omega-Xis]

Well I'm by no means a Priest expert but I can share the list I've been playing on Standard and the one I've been playing for Wild.

Standard:

I think circle is great for dealing with the "little shitter" spam from things like Muster, Ritual, Imps leftover from IGB. Most aggressive decks aren't playing anything that goes above 4 health by that time and you have Death for Flamewreathed Faceless (LOL balanced card). You use Elise to get the Map into your deck, remove, remove, remove and then Justicar allows you to stabilize, and then you Monkey. Pretty straightforward I think, this was a list I modified from one I saw Amaz running as it had things like Forbidden Shaping and N'Zoth. I've tried really hard to make an Elise N'Zoth deck work but it's really difficult with things like Belcher not being available in Standard. The highlight was drawing somewhere around 6-7 cards because I had run a Tempo Dragon Warrior out of cards and Circled with Pyro, Cleric and Acolyte on the board. Really dug through and got my answers, which is what the focal point of this deck is.

I've seen a lot of other archetypes that I think are strong too, such as C'thun and C'thun Dragon Priest.

Wild

The name says it all, I definitely didn't make this deck myself. I saw Kibler using it on a stream and I wanted to give it a try since I was a bit bored using the same classes I usually do. I think it was Saturday or Sunday but I went straight through from 2 stars at Rank 12 up to right on the cusp of Rank 8 (Rank 9 5 stars iirc) only losing 2 games. The one offs struck me as odd at first but they made sense after I thought about it and played some games. Velen's is predicated on having something to buff, and let's face it, as Priest, that's not always happening. Cultist is more or less the same deal but it's one of, if not the best, 3 drops in the game. Shade can be useless if it gives you something like Shield Slam from Warrior, but I have felt thatI've usually gotten more useful cards off it than useless ones.

Only thing I've really debated is maybe going Justicar > Boom. Sounds ridiculous but I've found myself in a lot of situations against Aggro where if I could be healing 4 at the end of the game I would be able to sustain just enough. That being said, Boom can take you from being behind to being on par with your opponent tempo-wise again and the Boom Bots certainly aren't dead weight off of a N'Zoth.

 

[Mulligan]

so, everyone knows priest is pretty shit right now (iirc it had like a 45% overall winrate and 0 tournament usage) but have you guys found anything that works for it that isnt totally overshadowed by another class?

If people would get off these janky, inconsistent Circle + Auchenai lists, maybe Priest wouldn't be bottom tier. They didn't work in Classic back in 2014, they don't work now. Priest isn't terrible...if you're willing to play Tempo, but everyone is stuck on Priest being this control class when they don't have good (enough) AoE. Yes, I have a list that seems solid but I need to do some more testing with it.

Also, I'm taking new recruits, boys! https://battle.net/recruit/KDXDKLN8PB?blzcmp=raf-hs&s=HS&m=web

 

[Matthew]

Priest is a bad class. There is no point in running it this meta. It will lose to every single deck that is midrange or aggro. There is no control (not even C'trol Warrior is an actual control deck). It's dead at the moment and I highly doubt that it will see a legit improvement until the next adventure (which should only be a week or two away).

Anyway hit legend again yada yada here is my list:

surprisingly hard to pilot well given the amount of Hunter and Dragon Warrior on the ladder. You're looking to secure board against those two decks and then win because your minions are just that much better without a condition to them. I flip-floped between Al'akir and Doomhammer but I decided the board control of Doomhammer was more favorable in a Shaman mirror and against Zoo. It hasn't steered me wrong of course. Looking several turns ahead with Overload really locks you into your 1-5 turns, so if you don't draw really favorably then you've probably lost. Still it feels like a strong deck (since it got me to legend tonight from rank 3), though I'd like to add another Valiant over a Mana Tide, but I'm not sure of that switch entirely.
But there you go!

edit:

just a small note but I actually feel like Dr. 7 is useless in Wild. There are cards which are way more powerful than him and actually gain a hindrance from the Bots. I wouldn't say wild is a faster meta, but it feels weird that a card like Dr. Boom is slow when N'Zoth is destroying the metagame. Maybe that's just me.

 

[Matthew]

so double post because I like this game still and there are still fun / cool decks to play in the meta!

This is the deck I'm currently climbing legend with (rank 400 to rank ~130) and it's super fucking good. I always had a soft spot for Grinder Shaman but now it finally has the tools it needs to succeed in the metagame. It beats C'trol Warrior, Druid, and has slightly favored matchups vs Dragon Warrior, Zoo, and Aggro / Midrange Shaman.

This actually might be my favorite deck at the moment because it feels so good to play a slow game and have it pan out because you're cards are just better (wait haven't I said this before?).

 

[Oopa]

Not sure if i vsed a control shaman just then, there was chillmaw, sylv, harrison, 2 stormcracks, 2 lavashocks, and they spent their early game toteming. Kind of died after i played it safe against the chillmaw :/

 

[Matthew]

Not sure if i vsed a control shaman just then, there was chillmaw, sylv, harrison, 2 stormcracks, 2 lavashocks, and they spent their early game toteming. Kind of died after i played it safe against the chillmaw :/

yeah that was a control shaman, my list is a little more greedy without early game removals like stormcrack but honestly you have so much healing in this deck and burst doesn't really exist anymore (outside of OTK Warrior), so I feel safe tanking damage in the early game so I can Ele D and Sentinel to get board on turn 4 / 5

 

[theTRI]

I wouldnt say priest is the worst class as I run the Velen combo and do just fine with it on ladder. The problem with priest nowadays is they dont change how they play aginst the shamans and zoo and are usally just dead in the water.