Serious US Election Thread (read post #2014)

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Gay marriage and adoption should be up to state and adoption agencies and not to the federal government. But I do find the gay community pretty funny in its hilariously misguided and stupid political stances.
http://www.truthrevolt.org/sites/de...ot_2016-06-27_at_3.36.18_pm.jpg?itok=JRI0KoWJ


And another fun list for you. List of poorest cities in the United States and the last time they had a republican mayor
Detroit, MI (1st on the poverty rate list) hasn’t elected
a Republican mayor since 1961;

Buffalo, NY (2nd) hasn’t elected one since 1954;

Cincinnati, OH (3rd)… since 1984;

Cleveland, OH (4th)… since 1989;

Miami, FL (5th) has never had a Republican Mayor;

St. Louis, MO (6th)…. since 1949;

El Paso, TX (7th) has never had a Republican Mayor;

Milwaukee, WI (8th)… since 1908;

Philadelphia, PA (9th)… since 1952;

Newark, NJ (10th)… since 1907.
Because it's wrong for Gays to hate a party and group of people who want to limit our rights and prevent us from marrying, adopting, and having workplace protections as well as try and discriminate against us with "religious freedom" laws. It makes complete sense that many gays hate Republicans because they are against most forms of gay rights (even so about 20-25% of LGBT people voted for Romney in 2012)


If you really wanna talk about poorest areas then well :O http://addictinginfo.org/2015/12/21...st-100-counties-in-america-are-in-red-states/


The arguement for cities with Democratic mayors isn't even fair since almost EVERY city has a Democrat mayor and have been ruled by Democrats for long periods of time. There's a big difference between a Mayor and someone like the state or federal government too in terms of what they can do to help impoverished people.
 

Bughouse

Like ships in the night, you're passing me by
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Lavos Spawn http://cen.acs.org/articles/92/web/2014/11/Tufts-Study-Finds-Big-Rise.html

I work in the business of healthcare as a government contractor. I'm pretty familiar with this. I don't know why you would assume bring a drug to market is cheap. It's not. They really do need strong patent protections for it to be profitable. The FDA process is laborious. Maybe it should be less so, but frankly, I'm willing to pay more for drugs that I'm sure work.
 

Lavos

Banned deucer.
The FDA process is laborious. Maybe it should be less so, but frankly, I'm willing to pay more for drugs that I'm sure work.
glad you're working a fairly skilled position that the rest of the country gets to pay for, and can thus afford things most people can't e.g. overpriced medication. I wouldn't presume to know your financial position but I feel like that's a reasonable guess.

if the Tufts study is accurate, and bringing a drug to market can cost up to $3 billion, then the FDA process is a broken bastard child of bureaucracy and should be completely reworked. no wonder the only "innovation" we see in the medical field has to be lucratively funded by government, the one institution on the planet that can lose massive sums of money in far-fetched experiments and get away unscathed.
 
glad you're working a fairly skilled position that the rest of the country gets to pay for, and can thus afford things most people can't e.g. overpriced medication. I wouldn't presume to know your financial position but I feel like that's a reasonable guess.

if the Tufts study is accurate, and bringing a drug to market can cost up to $3 billion, then the FDA process is a broken bastard child of bureaucracy and should be completely reworked. no wonder the only "innovation" we see in the medical field has to be lucratively funded by government, the one institution on the planet that can lose massive sums of money in far-fetched experiments and get away unscathed.
But the FDA is a broken bastard child of bureaucracy and should be completely reworked.

Honestly we could stand to reduce patent times if the approval process weren't so inefficient. I'm partial to 14 years.
 
So Ted Cruz didn't endorse Trump tonight.

Is that the first time that a party member hasn't publicly endorsed their party's presidential candidate during this?
 

Bughouse

Like ships in the night, you're passing me by
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Well, Ron Paul (and a few other elected "republicans" who are really libertarians) didn't endorse Romney in 2012 after losing. Don't quite know if that counts.

In any case, Ted Cruz is far from the only person not endorsing Trump. There's also all the other people who aren't speaking, like the Bushes, McCain, Romney, and Dole aka the only living Republican nominees. (Though Dole did separately endorse Trump)
 
yeah that's the neoliberal argument, it also gets dismantled when you rid yourself of the notion that corporations somehow control what the consumer base demands. consumers dictate production. corporations react to the demands of the consumer and produce accordingly, or they go out of business. innovation is tricky to track from a statistical standpoint but logic would seem to demonstrate tat if there's something consumers want which no corporation can provide, that's when you see the most innovation, in order to be the first to capture a market ($$$)
How do lifesaving drugs for rare diseases get created under this understanding? What happens when demand is not high enough to make it worthwhile for a company to invent such a drug?

Should companies like Pfizer foot the bill then for creating such drugs when they can only end up selling them at a loss? Does a company of the magnitude of Pfizer even exist without copyrights?

I don't know the answers to these questions, just genuinely curious.

On the topic of the drug approval process, it's hard to say whether or not drug approval is truly too expensive or not because we (well at least I) don't know what the process entails or if it's overly complicated or whatever. I personally don't know anything about the topic so I can't say I have opinion although the price does seem too high. I do think that it's important to ensure that drugs that are approved are ones that are effective and actually have a purpose, not just anything that's being approved with dubious benefits. I just don't know where the line is between excessive spending on approval and enough spending to ensure you get a drug that works. What I'd be more concerned with is larger companies having more pull in the approval process via lobbying. Not sure that happens, but that's what I am worried about.
 

Chou Toshio

Over9000
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Well, Ron Paul (and a few other elected "republicans" who are really libertarians) didn't endorse Romney in 2012 after losing. Don't quite know if that counts.

In any case, Ted Cruz is far from the only person not endorsing Trump. There's also all the other people who aren't speaking, like the Bushes, McCain, Romney, and Dole aka the only living Republican nominees. (Though Dole did separately endorse Trump)
I believe McCain did too, but with his tongue impailing through his cheek and opting not to go to the RNC, so take his endorsement as you will.
 
Genuinely respect Cruz for what he did.
He stuck to his principles in the face of a man who would rather politically knee cap someone than trying to unite a party. Also like how he said
“Stand, and speak, and vote your conscience, vote for candidates up and down the ticket who you trust to defend our freedom and to be faithful to the Constitution.” And every Trump supporter jumped on the bandwagon of well he isn't talking about trump lol. Just wait for about 10 months to about 2 years when everyone booing him at the convention will be claiming to have cheered for him
 
even if this is right for the presidency (it isn't, but i won't argue that here), it definitely isn't right overall politically

the individual voted in this time will determine at least 1 supreme court seat, and UP TO 3 potentially during his / her term as president...

that's INCREDIBLY significant, and even if you think hillary is an awful person and a terrible democrat, if you're even somewhat associated with the democratic party, you should vote her just for that (same thing goes for trump if you're associated with the republicans)
Well, Hillary did promise to not only overturn Citizens United, but write an amendment to put all this Tauros mulch to an end. It will have to remain to be seen if she'll voluntarily fulfill this promise to the best of her abilities, and give the folks like the Koch brothers a big middle finger on her behalf, or if we'll have to join activist groups and make her keep her word, but I guess that this is as good as things are going to get.

She has also pledged to fight climate change, so maybe we can convince her to volte face on fracking, and get her to dump the TPP. We all know that Trump is someone you can't negotiate with, perhaps even at gunpoint (let alone because it's the right thing!).

On another (and perhaps more funny) note, should I feel sorry for Cruz that he probably ruined his career by not endorsing Trump?
 
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shaian

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So apparently Trump said if he was President he might not defend some NATO members, in particular the Baltic ones, if he deems that they haven't fulfilled their obligations to the United States. Now, I try to be fair about these sort of things, but if anything should disqualify someone for being President... this would be it. If anyone in here supports the dude, can you clue me in as to why that is?
 
I don't think Cruz committed political suicide. In the event that Trump loses, he can point back to this moment to say he stood for country and the Constitution over the nominee that he feels doesn't embody conservative values. And denouncing him in such a forum shows he has the spine that many prominent Republicans lack, who either avoid Trump (think Bush)or grovel at his feet (think Christy). Lastly, withholding endorsement to do what he feels is in keeping with the Constitution and "true party values" is a message that can be felt on both sides of the aisle; I hate Cruz but feel glad that he did what he did, and I'm not alone in thinking this.
He'll be fine down the line (much to my dismay).
 

idiotfrommars

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So apparently Trump said if he was President he might not defend some NATO members, in particular the Baltic ones, if he deems that they haven't fulfilled their obligations to the United States. Now, I try to be fair about these sort of things, but if anything should disqualify someone for being President... this would be it. If anyone in here supports the dude, can you clue me in as to why that is?
NATO members are expected to spend 2% of their GDP on defense and those countries are not holding up their end of the bargain compared to how much the US is spending on defense.

 
So apparently Trump said if he was President he might not defend some NATO members, in particular the Baltic ones, if he deems that they haven't fulfilled their obligations to the United States. Now, I try to be fair about these sort of things, but if anything should disqualify someone for being President... this would be it. If anyone in here supports the dude, can you clue me in as to why that is?
I would have used the fact that Alex Jones fully backed his candidacy since about day 1 to eliminate him as potential presidential candidate but if that doesn't I'm not sure what will. Speaking of which, Alex Jones makes me feel sympathetic towards people I vehemently disagree with on just about every issue and I hope he disappears from every public forum
 
I don't how anyone can respect that rat fink Cruz. Says he will support the nominee; then doesn't support the nominee. What a liar.
 
hillary has picked tim kaine for her vp nom. from what i've read he seems to be way more of a moderate, but i don't know much about him. he was vetted for the obama campaign as well tho and has a pretty decent cv from skimming.
 
I am liking this DNC Leaks going up right now. Can't tell who is trying to lose this election more. Trump intentionally splits the party and after a good speech thursday night, follows that up with a crazy stupid party spitting speech today. And then the DNC links goes up and the democrat convention is coming up and they will no doubt up the ante. Just a giant swirl of crap racing towards the presidency
 

Illusio

Bold and Brash
I don't how anyone can respect that rat fink Cruz. Says he will support the nominee; then doesn't support the nominee. What a liar.
Cruz wasn't obligated to support the Republican nominee. In fact, it was Trump who first revoked his pledge to support the nominee, which prompted Cruz and Kasich to do the same.
 
Yeah, you got a lot of different subjects to change positions on too gain more power
Without looking into the others, I remember reading something on politifiact about this. Most of the quotes from the video evidence a change in position, not due to elections, but due to growing and acquiring new information and changing your views to reflect this. True, some of the quotes, Bosnia and Health care, represent lies and hypocrisy, but the vast majority of quotes in the video are taken out of context to portray Secretary Clinton as more dishonest or inconsistent than she actually is.

Also, the notion that Hillary is a congenital liar can be traced back to a 1996 conservative hit piece on her. Much like how PACs swiftboated Kerry in 2004, the goal was to take your opponents greatest strength and turn it into a weakness. All things considered, Hillary is very honest as far as politicians go, and the most honest politician to run in this presidential election (again, according to politifiact).
 
Without looking into the others, I remember reading something on politifiact about this. Most of the quotes from the video evidence a change in position, not due to elections, but due to growing and acquiring new information and changing your views to reflect this. True, some of the quotes, Bosnia and Health care, represent lies and hypocrisy, but the vast majority of quotes in the video are taken out of context to portray Secretary Clinton as more dishonest or inconsistent than she actually is.

Also, the notion that Hillary is a congenital liar can be traced back to a 1996 conservative hit piece on her. Much like how PACs swiftboated Kerry in 2004, the goal was to take your opponents greatest strength and turn it into a weakness. All things considered, Hillary is very honest as far as politicians go, and the most honest politician to run in this presidential election (again, according to politifiact).
So everyone wants to vote for a lady who has lied multiple times on this case alone? Go back and look at every statement of hers about this email and look at how much she lied. All emails on one server, lie. Didn't have classified information on the email, lie. Turned over all the emails on the server, lie. Didn't delete any classified emails, lie. You are all delusional to think she will be more open if she is given the presidency.

Also love how she is trying to come at this feminist point too. Did no one else laugh when she said every woman should be believed? What a joke. Every woman should be believed, unless they are accusing my husband of rape. Then I will drag your character through the dirt and put you through hell for such an accusation.

Plus you know this
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articl...on-took-me-through-hell-rape-victim-says.html


Also start around 50 seconds here
Notice how she blames the video and straight up lies to families grieving their dead.

Then of course the internet can find everything on her

Then of course Chinagate
http://www.standardnewswire.com/news/67773448.html

Travelgate
http://www.nytimes.com/1996/01/05/us/memo-places-hillary-clinton-at-core-of-travel-office-case.html
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/special/whitewater/stories/wwtr950227.htm

Whitewater scandal
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/special/whitewater/timeline.htm

Vince Foster Jr.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...llary-Clintons-close-friend-Vince-Foster.html


Filegate
http://www.nytimes.com/1996/06/11/us/whitewater-counsel-examining-use-of-fbi-to-get-gop-files.html
http://www.freedomwatchusa.org/hillary-clinton-tries-to-escape-from-on-going-filegate-case

Cattle-Futures
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/special/whitewater/stories/wwtr940527.htm


Lootergate
http://articles.latimes.com/2001/feb/10/news/mn-23723


Drug dealers in the whitehouse thanks to campaign contributions
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/RANCHO/POLITICS/CAB/clintoncabrera.html

Nice Ponzi scheme friends
http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB118920845515221199


Plenty of lies from Hillary
http://www.nytimes.com/1996/01/08/opinion/essay-blizzard-of-lies.html


Clinton foundations
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/14/u...nces-and-ambitions.html?pagewanted=3&_r=2&hp&
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/14/u...nces-and-ambitions.html?pagewanted=3&_r=2&hp&

Ball is in your court Hillary defender
 
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