Reservation for: Blastoise, Dugtrio and Gyarados
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Old Generation Analyses Reservation Thread
- Thread starter Matthew
- Start date
So I was looking at the analysis for ADV Celebi and noticed a number of its most common sets are missing while the majority of the sets listed aren't that common in today's meta. Considering Celebi is one of the best pokes in ADV OU I feel like this needs fixing, and it looks like no one has reserved it yet. Would anyone mind if I did an update for this?
yar go ahead
Bunch of things I think should be fixed, some of which I will do:
Jirachi needs Superachi, Physical sets and Wish+BSlam added, SubCM isn't worth a set
Remove non-CM from Suicune, add SuperCune and CM+Roar
A lot of the current Snorlax sets are trash, only 2 sets nowadays are Bulky Curse and Curse+SD, along with maybe a mixed FP variant.
Offensive Zapdos could use a fix, with a lot of the newer options such as TWave and Toxic mentioned. Agility too. ResTalk needs to go.
Bulky CM Raikou should be a thing, with either the Rest or Roar set. Also fix SubCM's EVs
Remove ResTalk Metagross and the 200 Meta variant, add Psych Up. Plus change the Mixed set to Pursuit.
Toxic+Protect Magneton is a thing, remove it from other options and add the real set.
Edit: Add a serious analysis for Ludicolo
Bulky DD Gyarados
MixMence needs Toxic slashed in somewhere.
I volunteer to do Zapdos and Jirachi, along with maybe Suicune
Jirachi needs Superachi, Physical sets and Wish+BSlam added, SubCM isn't worth a set
Remove non-CM from Suicune, add SuperCune and CM+Roar
A lot of the current Snorlax sets are trash, only 2 sets nowadays are Bulky Curse and Curse+SD, along with maybe a mixed FP variant.
Offensive Zapdos could use a fix, with a lot of the newer options such as TWave and Toxic mentioned. Agility too. ResTalk needs to go.
Bulky CM Raikou should be a thing, with either the Rest or Roar set. Also fix SubCM's EVs
Remove ResTalk Metagross and the 200 Meta variant, add Psych Up. Plus change the Mixed set to Pursuit.
Toxic+Protect Magneton is a thing, remove it from other options and add the real set.
Edit: Add a serious analysis for Ludicolo
Bulky DD Gyarados
MixMence needs Toxic slashed in somewhere.
I volunteer to do Zapdos and Jirachi, along with maybe Suicune
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Sorry if this is in the wrong thread, but there is a glitch pokemon from RBY, entitled X - x (in yellow) and PokeWTrainer (in RB) that would be right up there with M Rayquaza in AG. These stats are only at Level 95!
Attachments
I would like to help with some RBY analyses
I'm getting into Contributions and already read up on it. I'd like to do RBY Diglett if no one minds. n_n
I'm getting into Contributions and already read up on it. I'd like to do RBY Diglett if no one minds. n_n
Disaster Area
formerly Piexplode
is that for LC?
Yes considering Diglett still remains LC now and has been for many gens, it's only best suited if I make it LC
Disaster Area
formerly Piexplode
have you ever played RBY LC before?
I don't know of anyone playing it in the last year
I don't know of anyone playing it in the last year
There's no RBY LC tier on the PokemonShowdown server but I do have a lot of experience in the LC meta and know how Diglett works out and played RBY before so I know how the mechanics are. I want a simple Pokemon to start off with before I work on bigger projects to the contribution forums and RBY diglett is basically just a fast physical attacker even in today's LC. I've read up on the movepool it has so making sets for it wouldn't be hard at all. All of its attacks are physical and I believe I can make this work out nicely. http://www.smogon.com/dex/rb/pokemon/diglett/
Disaster Area
formerly Piexplode
still, as one of the very best mons in the meta you'd betetr have some good analysis to go with it.
I'm confident with my knowledge of it.
http://www.smogon.com/dex/gs/pokemon/tentacruel/
this is in need of an update, esp. the c n c section. thunderbolt/drill peck zapdos isnt a thing, no need to mention qwilfish etc.
this is in need of an update, esp. the c n c section. thunderbolt/drill peck zapdos isnt a thing, no need to mention qwilfish etc.
Thoughts on some RBY LC analyses? I saw that PikachuCandy had offered to do Diglett, but that was months ago and nothing seems to be posted. I understand they're pretty low-priority and would probably be limited in depth given the relative simplicity of the RBY LC metagame, but I thought it would be a fun little project that I could help with. Here's a couple of posts I've made on the subject in the past that I hope will demonstrate enough competence in the metagame to be trusted with the analyses.
http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/rby-lc-red-blue-yellow-lc.3511093/#post-5595612
http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/rby-lc-red-blue-yellow-lc.3511093/page-2#post-5809936
http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/young-guns.3481257/
By the way, I was mainly just going to do the "OU" Pokemon (I'm thinking Exeggcute, Diglett, Staryu, Abra, Pikachu, Meowth, Poliwag, Ponyta, Slowpoke, Voltorb, Drowzee, Clefairy, Doduo, Gastly, and Rhyhorn). Doing some for BL (or UU or whatever) might be cool too, but I don't have much experience there, and honestly I'm not a huge fan of the RBY2K10 LC tier list as it stands.
http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/rby-lc-red-blue-yellow-lc.3511093/#post-5595612
http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/rby-lc-red-blue-yellow-lc.3511093/page-2#post-5809936
http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/young-guns.3481257/
By the way, I was mainly just going to do the "OU" Pokemon (I'm thinking Exeggcute, Diglett, Staryu, Abra, Pikachu, Meowth, Poliwag, Ponyta, Slowpoke, Voltorb, Drowzee, Clefairy, Doduo, Gastly, and Rhyhorn). Doing some for BL (or UU or whatever) might be cool too, but I don't have much experience there, and honestly I'm not a huge fan of the RBY2K10 LC tier list as it stands.
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Reserving RBY LC Magikarp. Yes, it's a joke analysis.
ADV Exeggutor needs a revamp; it does not elaborate on its actual niche (sand removal when paired with Dugtrio to remove Ttar), which, while small, is the main reason why it is remotely viable. The second set there I am skeptical of, but I will leave that to the better judgment of more experienced ADV players on whether or not it is worth it, but the analysis in general needs a lot more information. I could theoretically do the revamp myself if more experienced players agree the second set is garbage, but I am not comfortable writing up an analysis for a Pokemon I have used so few times, especially since I have not played ADV in a while.
GSC Exeggutor needs a revamp too. The set includes Explosion as the final move, which Exeggutor can't even learn. In place of Explosion, one could run both Giga Drain and Hidden Power Fire for coverage against both Tyranitar and Skarmory, which is probably the best option. Also, Leech Seed should be considered alongside the Powders to take advantage of Exeggutor's defensive bulk.
Another set could revolve entirely around taking advantage of Exeggutor's bulk to stall using it's resistances rather than sweep. Of course, it's counters, i.e. any Pokemon with type advantages or strong special attackers, would have to be removed first. Exeggutor can't really stall special attackers well due to it's learnset not including Light Screen and it's relatively poor Sp.Def. Again, slap a Leftovers on it for some HP Recovery.
Moveset:
Giga Drain
Leech Seed / Synthesis
Substitute / Reflect / Protect
Toxic
Leech Seed forces a lot of switches, so if you chose to run it, Substitute is a fantastic option for taking advantage of the switch. This will also allow you to spread Toxic throught the team with ease, and rack up lots of residual damage while healing a lot yourself between Giga Drain and Leech Seed. One might also consider running Synthesis and Reflect to add to Exeggutor's longevity and support to his team while still spreading status with Toxic. Protect may also be considered to tack on a free turn of residual damage every other turn. It all really depends on what you need most on your team, but Sub should pretty much always be chosen if you select Leech Seed. Giga Drain for STAB and an attacking move in between Protects, as well as the recovery it offers.
The downside to this set is of course the fact that while Exeggutor is bulky and has a lot of resistances, there are still a good number of OU Pokemon that fill this role better. The main niche that Exeggutor gets here is access to Leech Seed, which not only adds another bit of residual damage each turn, but also adds some extra recovery and forces switches, allowing Exeggutor to Sub safely, increase Spikes damage, and spread Toxic throughout the opposing team.
Team Members: Cloyster is an obvious choice as a lead to get the Spikes down to take advantage of forced switches, and also since it can get rid of Fire and Flying types that could really hurt Exeggutor. One could also go with Forretress as the Spikes user as it can absorb Poison type attacks entirely and wall any suspected Megahorns or Hidden Power Bugs, but it's advised to select Starmie to deal with Fire and Flying types. Umbreon and Blissey are also great choices since they are safe switch-ins to Special Attacks. Machamp should also be seriously considered on any set as it can annihilate Tyranitar, smash Ice types, and Earthquake Poison types that could also threaten Exeggutor. All in all, this set requires a lot of team support, but is certainly not something people will see coming, and if all of Exeggutor's threats are removed, it could become a massive self-repairing wall with a Sub army standing in front of it that is able to self-repair.
Another set could revolve entirely around taking advantage of Exeggutor's bulk to stall using it's resistances rather than sweep. Of course, it's counters, i.e. any Pokemon with type advantages or strong special attackers, would have to be removed first. Exeggutor can't really stall special attackers well due to it's learnset not including Light Screen and it's relatively poor Sp.Def. Again, slap a Leftovers on it for some HP Recovery.
Moveset:
Giga Drain
Leech Seed / Synthesis
Substitute / Reflect / Protect
Toxic
Leech Seed forces a lot of switches, so if you chose to run it, Substitute is a fantastic option for taking advantage of the switch. This will also allow you to spread Toxic throught the team with ease, and rack up lots of residual damage while healing a lot yourself between Giga Drain and Leech Seed. One might also consider running Synthesis and Reflect to add to Exeggutor's longevity and support to his team while still spreading status with Toxic. Protect may also be considered to tack on a free turn of residual damage every other turn. It all really depends on what you need most on your team, but Sub should pretty much always be chosen if you select Leech Seed. Giga Drain for STAB and an attacking move in between Protects, as well as the recovery it offers.
The downside to this set is of course the fact that while Exeggutor is bulky and has a lot of resistances, there are still a good number of OU Pokemon that fill this role better. The main niche that Exeggutor gets here is access to Leech Seed, which not only adds another bit of residual damage each turn, but also adds some extra recovery and forces switches, allowing Exeggutor to Sub safely, increase Spikes damage, and spread Toxic throughout the opposing team.
Team Members: Cloyster is an obvious choice as a lead to get the Spikes down to take advantage of forced switches, and also since it can get rid of Fire and Flying types that could really hurt Exeggutor. One could also go with Forretress as the Spikes user as it can absorb Poison type attacks entirely and wall any suspected Megahorns or Hidden Power Bugs, but it's advised to select Starmie to deal with Fire and Flying types. Umbreon and Blissey are also great choices since they are safe switch-ins to Special Attacks. Machamp should also be seriously considered on any set as it can annihilate Tyranitar, smash Ice types, and Earthquake Poison types that could also threaten Exeggutor. All in all, this set requires a lot of team support, but is certainly not something people will see coming, and if all of Exeggutor's threats are removed, it could become a massive self-repairing wall with a Sub army standing in front of it that is able to self-repair.
Yes it can. You teach Exeggutor Explosion in the Gen 1 games via TM and transfer it to Gen 2.
No one actually responded to this, so tagging some ADV dudes at random BKC Typhlito Sapientia Heysup thoughts on including the second set for a revamp of this: http://www.smogon.com/dex/rs/pokemon/exeggutor/ou/
Also, since Alfalfa doesn't seem super confident about it, if any of you guys want to grab it, feel free~
fwiw I agree with basically everything he said. I'm not sure how useless that second set is but it looks a bit ridiculous with the slashes. I'm not nearly active enough to find out the optimal bulky set or a wall breaker set, but basically anything with Sleep Powder / Explosion is not directly outclassed by Celebi, so I guess I wouldn't care if some cleaned-up variant of the second set remained or if it was gone / put in other options. I guess it still counters Swampert and threatens with different shit than Celebi threatens with. Seems basically useless without a Magneton or solid Skarm switch though.
You mentioned the second set but I want to mention something about its first set. I've been using the sunnybeam set recently and I find it to be pretty effective mon. The only change I made to it was to boost its speed evs to 228 so I could outspeed standard tyranitar, metagross, taunt skarmory, Ludicolo and aerodactyl (under sun). Hp ice tends to be a bit more useful since it hits more things than hp fire but both are useful.
I never tried its stall set though so I don't know how effective it is. Sleep powder + boom does make for an interesting set though. I don't see it stalling very long though with its low speed and multiple weaknesses. Celebi stalls great because of recover and superior bulk while venusaur has a nice typing and the semi-reliable synthesis. Eggy just has leech seed which isn't bad but it could only do so much on its own. Boom + sleep would be the set's saving grace since it will usually at the very least sleep a mon and try to boom on their next mon. The combo almost sounds like a wall breaker since special walls will be hit really hard by this. Actually wonder how well it could do with double status for this purpose over leech seed so it could status multiple pokemon before using explosion. Definitely worth testing out.
I never tried its stall set though so I don't know how effective it is. Sleep powder + boom does make for an interesting set though. I don't see it stalling very long though with its low speed and multiple weaknesses. Celebi stalls great because of recover and superior bulk while venusaur has a nice typing and the semi-reliable synthesis. Eggy just has leech seed which isn't bad but it could only do so much on its own. Boom + sleep would be the set's saving grace since it will usually at the very least sleep a mon and try to boom on their next mon. The combo almost sounds like a wall breaker since special walls will be hit really hard by this. Actually wonder how well it could do with double status for this purpose over leech seed so it could status multiple pokemon before using explosion. Definitely worth testing out.
If I can still do that Magikarp joke analysis, I'd like to start now.