david0895
Mercy Main Btw
The problem is that CAP22 is not designed to boost itself and sweep.
That why we say that CAP22 can't have boosting moves: they're anti-concept
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CAP 22 CAP 22 - Part 8 - Moveset Discussion
- Thread starter Deck Knight
- Start date
- Status
That why we say that CAP22 can't have boosting moves: they're anti-concept
My point was that we already accepted Grass-type coverage. CAP22's draining moves as they are right now frankly will not be good on CAP22 in most cases because Draining Kiss's base power is too low and Drain Punch uses CAP22's lower attack stat. Giga Drain imo is the best draining move we could give CAP22 because it has coverage that we already want on CAP22 and it doesn't force CAP22 to run Moonblast and Draining Kiss or two Fighting-type STABs, etc. I just wanted to hear everyone's opinion on it, and I think it'd be a cool option to have. Grass-type coverage probably won't be CAP22's go to coverage anyways given how much is hit by Fairy and Fighting. Just to make an official proposition:
Offensive Pivot Edit said:
Honestly, you're really not convincing anyone with this kind of argument. Why do we need a boosting move? Justify it with calcs with boosted stats so we can objectively understand why.
No calcs necessary. Boosting moves are completely inappropriate for this concept and entirely at odds with the intentions of this CAP; banning them is a no-brainer. The only boosting move out there that is even plausibly allowable in my opinion is Power-Up Punch, primarily for flavor reasons and because the Atk is really just unusably low, despite what some folks might think.
Someone suggested this before. I feel like this will be like Imprision.
Moveset Submission
Name: Simple Shot
Move 1: Simple Beam
Move 2: Parting Shot
Move 3: Moonblast
Move 4: Aura Sphere/Focus Blast
Ability: Aroma Veil/Natural Cure
Item: Focus Sash/Life Orb
EVs: 252 SpA/252 Spd
Nature: Timid/Naïve
Moveset Submission
Name: Simple Shot
Move 1: Simple Beam
Move 2: Parting Shot
Move 3: Moonblast
Move 4: Aura Sphere/Focus Blast
Ability: Aroma Veil/Natural Cure
Item: Focus Sash/Life Orb
EVs: 252 SpA/252 Spd
Nature: Timid/Naïve
- Simple Beam allows for the practicality for 2 parting shots for one, when predicting a switch or to stack up. It breaks out Magic Bounce, Poison Heal, Guts, etc. Or it can be rather punishing with a +4 swords dance or other boosting moves. So it creates a mindgame. BUT they can switch out from it, so it's hard to tell.
- Parting Shot complements Simple Beam (more the other way around), and is the concept. STAB allows pressure to build for anything weak to it.
- Max speed/+ Nature allows for outspeeding of various others, and allows for a fast Parting Shot escape even with circle throw. A. Veil is priority as the 2 main moves of this can be taunted.
In no way was I endorsing boosting moves. I was pointing out that if he wants to make a case for those moves, he would need a lot of calcs to back up his propsition.
I see no issue with Giga Drain at all. It's an interesting trade-off of healing vs Power when compared to Energy Ball.
Okay final thoughts on stuff:
Flash Cannon is inferior to Sludge Wave in almost every way; there's no need to require it for movepool subs. If anything, you could throw a Hidden Power in there, Ground or Rock idk, not important for now.
This set is I think only good on paper (78 Atk let's be real), but it does bring up Grass-type coverage, which I presume is being offered to 2HKO Hippowdon, Azumarill, Manaphy, Rotom-W, Slowbro, and Krilowatt, which are are already all 2HKO'd by LO Moonblast, so w/e. LO Energy Ball also OHKO's Mega Diancie 100% of the time and Giga Drain comes close, not sure if that's good or bad. The healing part of Giga Drain is only partially concerning, since it's really just a buff we'd be giving the CAP for the hell of it. In general I am against such buffs, especially in cases such as this where there's no real good competitive argument against the move in question (the "well why not" conundrum). I feel like with all the great things this CAP has going for it already, if you want to recover HP, then spend a moveslot on it and go with Wish or Moonlight, and if you want to muscle through bulky Waters, then use the offensive stats we gave this CAP for exactly that purpose. Doing both those things at once seems a bit unfair to me, imo.
ugh
I think a lot of smart things have been said about Knock Off being a distraction from the main idea for this CAP as well as a potential interference to the metagame's ability to check it. Knock Off comes across as a generic and superfluous utility move with only potential downsides for the concept and we should probably stay away from it. Play Rough is the best physical Fairy STAB and there is no reason to ban it. Encore is fine so long as we don't give it Spikes, although as a rarely-competitive move in general it shouldn't get its own set or slash, and so I don't see any reason to require it. I'm cool with Moonlight, actually; this CAP's not super bulky and it's not fully immune to Toxic or Burn damage, so it won't break the meta. Moonblast / Aura Sphere / Parting Shot / Taunt / Moonlight could actually be the standard set, as both Taunt and Moonlight can be used for similar purposes for and against various playstyles. Screens are pro-concept, although I have an unsettling feeling that with all of CAP's crazy setup sweepers a dual-Screen set with Parting Shot could make it almost too easy for them to run through entire teams. Hard to say for sure, though. Charm and Snarl are also both pro-concept, but they are also pretty gimmicky, so they can be in the movepool or not, won't make a difference.
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As I see it, you said "Screens are not to be run on an offensive Pokemon. We have good attributes for a user of screens. Screens encourage the use of Parting Shot. One screen is not usually effective. We need to have both screens or none."
I see no reasoning within your point. I agree that defensive EVs tend to work better with screens, however we can easily set up a single screen when forcing a switch and then use Parting Shot. Therefore, the use of Parting Shot is still encouraged by a single screen. You give no reasoning why a single screen is not useful, nor any reason to say why we are unable to have a single screen rather than both besides "A single screen is inconsistent."
I believe that our CAP should remain offensive, which means we should not encourage our CAP to be run in a defensive manner by providing dual screens. Just because it has one screen does not mean it cannot be useful without the other one, because it can be used to benefit the team. The point about "One screen does not work that consistently" is a moot point. Someone could easily set up Light Screen (On an enemy switch) and use Parting Shot into the likes of Gyarados, who would then have an easy setup regardless if the opponent is physical or special. A single screen does not require defensive EVs like dual because it can be set up on a forced switch rather than requiring an extra turn of staying in on something to use another screen. It sounds like you merely want both screens just for the sake of flavor, which isn't a priority for the CAP22.
To get to the short, my point is having a single screen should have just as much consideration as providing the CAP dual screens or no screens at all.
My reasoning was as a dual screen user, our CAP has the distinct qualities that enable it to take advantage of Parting Shot as a way to pivot out. If you are recommending one screen + Parting Shot then it illustrates you do not understand how screens works. No offensive Pokemon is going to waste their time setting up one screen when they have multiple other options that are more consistent. A screen itself needs to be set up with the other in order to be abusable, for the ability to take half damage from the entire metagame is what makes dual screens a viable strategy in the first place. The only instance when a mon is running Reflect outside of this is when they are trying to evade Pursuit, and Light Screen may be used on a mon that baits in something like Stratagem or Syclant, but why use Light Screen when mons can get more mileage out of running other moves to cripple those mons than just running a single screen? Even with Parting Shot the value of a single screen is being grossly overstated; unless you are trying to bait a Pokemon into a Pursuit trapper, one screen + Parting Shot is not going to be a remotely viable strategy.
I suggested adding both screens because our CAP has the ideal qualities to make use of the strategy, and access to Parting Shot was one of them. Yes, CAP 22 will prefer going offensive most of the time, but adding both screens does not raise concerns to an extent that something like Nasty Plot would raise because Screens does not deter from the concept nor make CAP 22 potentially overpowering.
Blackdrackon30, I think reflect is definitely the way to go after looking at the cap tier list again, light screen would help cawmodore set up too well by covering his weakness, and that could be a little broken. It would also help arghonaut, as he can only boost his defense, and it might help him wall too well. Reflect doesn't have any issues with the tier list I can see, plus it could have a helpful interaction with malaconda, who needs it the most really.
Why does having the ability to sweep under certain circumstances mean it can't use parting shots in your mind?
It leads to wasted turns where opponents can get in Pokemon for free on the turn you boost. If it was Volt Switch then you can at least get a boosted attack off in that scenario, but using Calm Mind into Parting Shot is far from optimal compared to hitting the switch-in with Moonblast or Yawn-ing them.
And yes, you could just hold PS'mon back until most/all counters are gone and the checks are weakened. Then you would probably rather have a third attack vs Parting Shot for better coverage to be able to pick up some of those KOs that Moonblast/Focus
It does nothing to assist or advance the concept due to a general lack of synergy with Parting Shot since any momentum gain from using Parting Shot would have to be weighed against the turn it took to use a boosting move.
Looking at Deck's final list of moves to discuss, I agree with a lot that has been said, especially by Kosrki, but here are a few specific opinions on some of the moves.
Knock Off is very much a distracting move that really doesn't serve much of a purpose on any of our sets. Yes, it can let us beat certain Pokemon we want to beat easier, but it also lets us cripple Pokemon we don't want to beat. And that last sentence is going to be true for any Pokemon we as a project ever make. There is nothing specific to this project that makes Knock Off specifically useful, and so I think it is best left off, especially since it is a physical move that would further distract from our special leaning stats.
Play Rough, as has been mentioned, is something I barely consider a competitive move at all. Even with a Jolly nature and maxed out attack, Play Rough only out-damages Moonblast against a generic opponent by ~1%. And, of course, it is less accurate than Moonblast, meaning that even for a Jolly CAP22, Moonblast would probably still be the better move. Furthermore, there is not really a single case of an important Pokemon beaten by Play Rough that is not beaten by Moonblast, especially if by running Moonblast it means you are investing in SpA. Ultimately Play Rough is simply not competitive and it shouldn't matter whether it gets it or not.
Encore is an interesting move that can essentially serve as an alternative to Taunt against certain Pokemon. I actually really like Encore here, as a large part of what Parting Shot is good for is setting up sweepers, and with Encore, either you force a switch and then get switch advantage against a pokemon with lowered offenses, or you get free turns against something locked into a useless move. I feel it really pairs well with our concept. I don't know if overall it will be something people would choose over Taunt, but it is certainly a nice option to have.
Moonlight I don't mind too much, as we will never be a wall with this Pokemon, and it can give us a different way to take on bulky Pokemon. That said, I get the feeling that a recovery move like this might end up competing with Parting Shot itself for set space. In the end, I doubt it is going to screw anything up, but I don't know if it is really needed. I guess you could consider me neutral on the move.
Finally, I am not a fan of Dual Screens at all. Sure, seem to mesh well with Parting Shot, also being used to help others set up. But is anyone actually going to pass on Taunt or Encore or a second offensive move in order to run three different moves all for the purpose of setting up one other Pokemon? I don't think so. Dual Screens would be a competition, rather than a companion, for our concept move, and that is not a good thing to have.
Knock Off is very much a distracting move that really doesn't serve much of a purpose on any of our sets. Yes, it can let us beat certain Pokemon we want to beat easier, but it also lets us cripple Pokemon we don't want to beat. And that last sentence is going to be true for any Pokemon we as a project ever make. There is nothing specific to this project that makes Knock Off specifically useful, and so I think it is best left off, especially since it is a physical move that would further distract from our special leaning stats.
Play Rough, as has been mentioned, is something I barely consider a competitive move at all. Even with a Jolly nature and maxed out attack, Play Rough only out-damages Moonblast against a generic opponent by ~1%. And, of course, it is less accurate than Moonblast, meaning that even for a Jolly CAP22, Moonblast would probably still be the better move. Furthermore, there is not really a single case of an important Pokemon beaten by Play Rough that is not beaten by Moonblast, especially if by running Moonblast it means you are investing in SpA. Ultimately Play Rough is simply not competitive and it shouldn't matter whether it gets it or not.
Encore is an interesting move that can essentially serve as an alternative to Taunt against certain Pokemon. I actually really like Encore here, as a large part of what Parting Shot is good for is setting up sweepers, and with Encore, either you force a switch and then get switch advantage against a pokemon with lowered offenses, or you get free turns against something locked into a useless move. I feel it really pairs well with our concept. I don't know if overall it will be something people would choose over Taunt, but it is certainly a nice option to have.
Moonlight I don't mind too much, as we will never be a wall with this Pokemon, and it can give us a different way to take on bulky Pokemon. That said, I get the feeling that a recovery move like this might end up competing with Parting Shot itself for set space. In the end, I doubt it is going to screw anything up, but I don't know if it is really needed. I guess you could consider me neutral on the move.
Finally, I am not a fan of Dual Screens at all. Sure, seem to mesh well with Parting Shot, also being used to help others set up. But is anyone actually going to pass on Taunt or Encore or a second offensive move in order to run three different moves all for the purpose of setting up one other Pokemon? I don't think so. Dual Screens would be a competition, rather than a companion, for our concept move, and that is not a good thing to have.
Boosting Moves:
Boosting moves are anti-concept because they encourage staying in and attempting to sweep instead of using Parting Shot to set up an ally, as multiple people have said. I certainly won't be requiring any, the only ones I wouldn't explicitly prohibit are Bulk Up and Power-Up Punch - but neither of those are effective enough to be competitive. Boosting Moves are otherwise prohibited.
Spikes:
The issue with Spikes is not Spikes itself for me, it's the ability it has to overshadow Parting Shot in conjunction with other moves. Encore for example allows CAP to set up multiple layers of Spikes (or one at the very least), so Spikes + Encore could overshadow Parting Shot. I don't think Taunt has the same issue because Taunt forces an opponent to attack or switch, but Taunt also shuts down Defog while CAP generally does well against traditional metagame Spinners. - heck, it's even faster than Starmie.0 Spikes is presently the only move we have discussed with the potential to derail the idea of being "defined by Parting Shot" exclusively. CAP might instead be "defined by" Parting Shot + Spikes. While I do think if Spikes is allowed there will be a Dual STAB/Taunt/Spikes set and a Dual STAB/Encore/Spikes set, there will also be a Dual STAB/Parting Shot/Spikes Set.
Our concept is to make a Pokemon defined by Parting Shot, but I do not interpret that to mean any move which shares the limelight with it inherently violates the concept. Perhaps a combination with Spikes IS the definitive way to make a strong Parting Shot Pokemon.
That said the move is controversial enough that I intend to put it to a vote, knowing those are the stakes. Spikes + Parting Shot is itself a very good combination for two slots. I believe voters should be able to weigh that against the consequences of Spikes being combined with our other support moves. It is unlikely CAP would become a "premier offensive Spiker" when it is checked or countered by most Defog users and insufficiently bulky or offensive to win a 1vs1 against most spinners if it gets greedy with Spikes.
Encore:
Encore I consider in the same vein as Taunt, as a move to fluster passive Pokemon. I see no other issues with it.
Giga Drain:
Sure, why not slash it in with the other Grass coverage. The health regeneration prevents 2HKO's from Colossoil's Earthquake and similar attacks and allows CAP to finish off threats like Mega Slowbro and Colossoil if it's low health without Life Orb recoil KO'ing it.
Knock Off:
This move started out not recieving much discussion but over the course of the thread the arguments against it for interfering with Scarved checks, giving CAP much stronger matchups against many of the Pokemon that are supposed to threaten it became stronger and stronger. Although Knock Off does make removing Chansey's eviolite possible, it comes at too great a cost. Chansey can be 2HKO'd by the mix set utilizing an invested Close Combat, and that set also is unique in OHKO'ing AV Colossoil. Knock Off is therefore removed from sets.
Moonlight:
Ultimately there was sufficient resistance to the stat-dropping set, and the only other proposed sets with Moonlight placed it over Parting Shot. For this reason no final set possesses Moonlight because without defensive investment (and stat drops as per the set) Moonlight struggles to outrun most opponents. The only set where it might find a place is over Taunt or Encore, but such a set would have a different purpose than disruption. I have decided to poll Moonlight's legality as to whether we should allow it in a final movepool or not, in accordance with the thread OP.
Reflect / Light Screen:
Our Pokemon desperately hurts for moveslots after STABs and Parting Shot, and Dual Screens requires one of those be sacrificed at the outset. There just isn't the space for them, and since they are only effective with Light Clay when our CAP largely needs Life Orb to secure KOs, that's another reason they are counterproductive.
Other moves:
Heal Bell / Aromatherapy:
The idea for a cleric set was brought up, using Aromatherapy or Heal Bell, and then using Parting Shot to get out. I think this utility is a bit too good for CAP since it already has Natural Cure and it doesn't really combine with Parting Shot effectively. Parting Shot tries to pro-actively pressure to create momentum. Cleric moves are be definition Re-active moves.
I'll be making a final run-through on sets and amalgating all of them into the approved choices. After that I'm going to yield the thread to cbrevan.
Boosting moves are anti-concept because they encourage staying in and attempting to sweep instead of using Parting Shot to set up an ally, as multiple people have said. I certainly won't be requiring any, the only ones I wouldn't explicitly prohibit are Bulk Up and Power-Up Punch - but neither of those are effective enough to be competitive. Boosting Moves are otherwise prohibited.
Spikes:
The issue with Spikes is not Spikes itself for me, it's the ability it has to overshadow Parting Shot in conjunction with other moves. Encore for example allows CAP to set up multiple layers of Spikes (or one at the very least), so Spikes + Encore could overshadow Parting Shot. I don't think Taunt has the same issue because Taunt forces an opponent to attack or switch, but Taunt also shuts down Defog while CAP generally does well against traditional metagame Spinners. - heck, it's even faster than Starmie.0 Spikes is presently the only move we have discussed with the potential to derail the idea of being "defined by Parting Shot" exclusively. CAP might instead be "defined by" Parting Shot + Spikes. While I do think if Spikes is allowed there will be a Dual STAB/Taunt/Spikes set and a Dual STAB/Encore/Spikes set, there will also be a Dual STAB/Parting Shot/Spikes Set.
Our concept is to make a Pokemon defined by Parting Shot, but I do not interpret that to mean any move which shares the limelight with it inherently violates the concept. Perhaps a combination with Spikes IS the definitive way to make a strong Parting Shot Pokemon.
That said the move is controversial enough that I intend to put it to a vote, knowing those are the stakes. Spikes + Parting Shot is itself a very good combination for two slots. I believe voters should be able to weigh that against the consequences of Spikes being combined with our other support moves. It is unlikely CAP would become a "premier offensive Spiker" when it is checked or countered by most Defog users and insufficiently bulky or offensive to win a 1vs1 against most spinners if it gets greedy with Spikes.
Encore:
Encore I consider in the same vein as Taunt, as a move to fluster passive Pokemon. I see no other issues with it.
Giga Drain:
Sure, why not slash it in with the other Grass coverage. The health regeneration prevents 2HKO's from Colossoil's Earthquake and similar attacks and allows CAP to finish off threats like Mega Slowbro and Colossoil if it's low health without Life Orb recoil KO'ing it.
Knock Off:
This move started out not recieving much discussion but over the course of the thread the arguments against it for interfering with Scarved checks, giving CAP much stronger matchups against many of the Pokemon that are supposed to threaten it became stronger and stronger. Although Knock Off does make removing Chansey's eviolite possible, it comes at too great a cost. Chansey can be 2HKO'd by the mix set utilizing an invested Close Combat, and that set also is unique in OHKO'ing AV Colossoil. Knock Off is therefore removed from sets.
Moonlight:
Ultimately there was sufficient resistance to the stat-dropping set, and the only other proposed sets with Moonlight placed it over Parting Shot. For this reason no final set possesses Moonlight because without defensive investment (and stat drops as per the set) Moonlight struggles to outrun most opponents. The only set where it might find a place is over Taunt or Encore, but such a set would have a different purpose than disruption. I have decided to poll Moonlight's legality as to whether we should allow it in a final movepool or not, in accordance with the thread OP.
Reflect / Light Screen:
Our Pokemon desperately hurts for moveslots after STABs and Parting Shot, and Dual Screens requires one of those be sacrificed at the outset. There just isn't the space for them, and since they are only effective with Light Clay when our CAP largely needs Life Orb to secure KOs, that's another reason they are counterproductive.
Other moves:
Heal Bell / Aromatherapy:
The idea for a cleric set was brought up, using Aromatherapy or Heal Bell, and then using Parting Shot to get out. I think this utility is a bit too good for CAP since it already has Natural Cure and it doesn't really combine with Parting Shot effectively. Parting Shot tries to pro-actively pressure to create momentum. Cleric moves are be definition Re-active moves.
I'll be making a final run-through on sets and amalgating all of them into the approved choices. After that I'm going to yield the thread to cbrevan.
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Conclusion
OK. So here's the final post with the Sets, Other Options, and Polls. These are the sets I feel were thoroughly discussed and reached ICC consensus on.
Name: Disruption-Shot
Move 1: Aura Sphere
Move 2: Moonblast
Move 3: Taunt / Encore
Move 4: Parting Shot
Ability: Natural Cure
Item: Life Orb
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Nature: Timid
(The earliest set proposed, which focuses on Dual-STAB, Parting Shot, and a move to disrupt the passive play we did not want CAP to get flustered by.)
Name: 3-Attack Parting Shot
Move 1: Moonblast
Move 2: Aura Sphere / Focus Blast
Move 3: Sludge Wave
Move 4: Parting Shot
Ability: Natural Cure
Item: Choice Specs / Life Orb
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Nature: Timid
(A basic offensive set utilizing STABs and Sludge Wave to threaten Clefable and other Fairy types that remain generally threatening, which are not very prone to disruption or threatened by our STAB options.)
Name: Mixed Offensive Pivot
Move 1: Parting Shot
Move 2: Moonblast
Move 3: Close Combat
Move 4: Energy Ball / Grass Knot / Giga Drain
Ability: Natural Cure
Item: Life Orb
EVs: 204 Atk / 52 SpA / 252 Spe
Nature: Naive
(The anti-Chansey set that takes a more direct approach to finishing off The Blob and utilizes Grass coverage to make up for some of the power lost from needing to invest in Attack.)
Name: Parting Slumber
Move 1: Yawn
Move 2: Parting Shot
Move 3: Moonblast
Move 4: Aura Sphere
Ability: Natural Cure
Item: Life Orb
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Nature: Timid
(Yawn's ability to force 50/50's and further increase the threat from Parting Shot was noted as soon as this set was submitted, again utilizing Dual STAB to threaten the metagame.)
Name: Wishful Thinking
Move 1: Moonblast
Move 2: Focus Blast / Hidden Power Ground
Move 3: Wish
Move 4: Parting Shot
Ability: Natural Cure
Item: Life Orb
EVs: 232 HP / 92 SpA / 184 Spe
Nature: Timid
(The Wish set takes a different approach by providing more team support, and making up for its weaker offense by utilizing either Focus Blast for increased damage output or Hidden Power to subvert counters. The set is designed to test passing Wishes along with the stat drops, as recipients will be better able to take the incoming attack.)
Other Options: Flash Cannon, Charm/Feather Dance, Snarl
(Flash Cannon was basically pointed out to be inferior to Sludge Wave, however it does hit slightly different targets and is largely redundant with Fighting STAB. Charm/Feather Dance and Snarl enhanced the stat-dropping potential of Parting Shot, and while there were arguments calling them either distracting or irrelevant, they are options that liken Parting Shot more to Memento and I feel they are a valid way to further explore Parting Shot in the playtest.)
- - - - - -
These are the moves I think should go to a poll:
Spikes - Spikes + Parting Shot is itself a very good combination for two slots. The issue with Spikes is not Spikes itself, it's the ability it has to overshadow Parting Shot in conjunction with other moves. Encore for example allows CAP to set up multiple layers of Spikes (or one at the very least), so Spikes + Encore could overshadow Parting Shot. I don't think Taunt has the same issue because Taunt forces an opponent to attack or switch, but Taunt also shuts down Defog while CAP generally does well against traditional metagame Spinners - heck, it's even faster than Starmie.
Our concept is to make a Pokemon defined by Parting Shot, but I do not interpret that to mean any move which shares the limelight with it inherently violates the concept. Perhaps a combination with Spikes IS the definitive way to make the most potent possible Parting Shot Pokemon. Therefore I'm putting Spikes up to a vote.
Moonlight - Like Spikes, Moonlight has some application with other moves to move CAP into a Stallbreaking roll without necessarily using Parting Shot on the set. I do not consider it nearly as powerful or attractive as other options, however reliable recovery on a Pokemon with a good typing is what it is.
Tagging cbrevan to make final comments and determinations.
OK. So here's the final post with the Sets, Other Options, and Polls. These are the sets I feel were thoroughly discussed and reached ICC consensus on.
Name: Disruption-Shot
Move 1: Aura Sphere
Move 2: Moonblast
Move 3: Taunt / Encore
Move 4: Parting Shot
Ability: Natural Cure
Item: Life Orb
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Nature: Timid
(The earliest set proposed, which focuses on Dual-STAB, Parting Shot, and a move to disrupt the passive play we did not want CAP to get flustered by.)
Name: 3-Attack Parting Shot
Move 1: Moonblast
Move 2: Aura Sphere / Focus Blast
Move 3: Sludge Wave
Move 4: Parting Shot
Ability: Natural Cure
Item: Choice Specs / Life Orb
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Nature: Timid
(A basic offensive set utilizing STABs and Sludge Wave to threaten Clefable and other Fairy types that remain generally threatening, which are not very prone to disruption or threatened by our STAB options.)
Name: Mixed Offensive Pivot
Move 1: Parting Shot
Move 2: Moonblast
Move 3: Close Combat
Move 4: Energy Ball / Grass Knot / Giga Drain
Ability: Natural Cure
Item: Life Orb
EVs: 204 Atk / 52 SpA / 252 Spe
Nature: Naive
(The anti-Chansey set that takes a more direct approach to finishing off The Blob and utilizes Grass coverage to make up for some of the power lost from needing to invest in Attack.)
Name: Parting Slumber
Move 1: Yawn
Move 2: Parting Shot
Move 3: Moonblast
Move 4: Aura Sphere
Ability: Natural Cure
Item: Life Orb
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Nature: Timid
(Yawn's ability to force 50/50's and further increase the threat from Parting Shot was noted as soon as this set was submitted, again utilizing Dual STAB to threaten the metagame.)
Name: Wishful Thinking
Move 1: Moonblast
Move 2: Focus Blast / Hidden Power Ground
Move 3: Wish
Move 4: Parting Shot
Ability: Natural Cure
Item: Life Orb
EVs: 232 HP / 92 SpA / 184 Spe
Nature: Timid
(The Wish set takes a different approach by providing more team support, and making up for its weaker offense by utilizing either Focus Blast for increased damage output or Hidden Power to subvert counters. The set is designed to test passing Wishes along with the stat drops, as recipients will be better able to take the incoming attack.)
Other Options: Flash Cannon, Charm/Feather Dance, Snarl
(Flash Cannon was basically pointed out to be inferior to Sludge Wave, however it does hit slightly different targets and is largely redundant with Fighting STAB. Charm/Feather Dance and Snarl enhanced the stat-dropping potential of Parting Shot, and while there were arguments calling them either distracting or irrelevant, they are options that liken Parting Shot more to Memento and I feel they are a valid way to further explore Parting Shot in the playtest.)
- - - - - -
These are the moves I think should go to a poll:
Spikes - Spikes + Parting Shot is itself a very good combination for two slots. The issue with Spikes is not Spikes itself, it's the ability it has to overshadow Parting Shot in conjunction with other moves. Encore for example allows CAP to set up multiple layers of Spikes (or one at the very least), so Spikes + Encore could overshadow Parting Shot. I don't think Taunt has the same issue because Taunt forces an opponent to attack or switch, but Taunt also shuts down Defog while CAP generally does well against traditional metagame Spinners - heck, it's even faster than Starmie.
Our concept is to make a Pokemon defined by Parting Shot, but I do not interpret that to mean any move which shares the limelight with it inherently violates the concept. Perhaps a combination with Spikes IS the definitive way to make the most potent possible Parting Shot Pokemon. Therefore I'm putting Spikes up to a vote.
Moonlight - Like Spikes, Moonlight has some application with other moves to move CAP into a Stallbreaking roll without necessarily using Parting Shot on the set. I do not consider it nearly as powerful or attractive as other options, however reliable recovery on a Pokemon with a good typing is what it is.
Tagging cbrevan to make final comments and determinations.
Deck Knight has done a wonderful job with his closing analysis and I believe he's created an accurate representation of the general consensus expressed during the course of the thread. I won't be adding or removing anything from it, as I believe none of the accepted sets and moves would interfere with our concept or goals and that everything worth considering has already been accepted. I also agree with his decision to poll Spikes and Moonlight due to the impactful nature of those two moves.
- Status