[Ubers] Kyogre 2/3

aurora

GODQUAZA
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[Overview]
- King of Ubers
- Ridiculous power - Specs Water Spout 2HKOes practically everything not immune or 4x resistant to it, and +1 Water Gem OHKOs many of those 2HKOes
- Good bulk (physical is a bit meh, but even that is good if you invest in it)
- Drizzle is fantastic support and is the base of many teams
- Basically, unless rain interferes with your team in any way, you can find a use for Kyogre on your team - can serve as a wallbreaker, bulky sweeper, revenge killer/cleaner, wall, anything you want

Kyogre is the most defining Pokemon in the Ubers metagame. It can take on almost any role; it can serve as any of a wallbreaker, sweeper, revenge killer, or a wall, depending on the team's needs. Drizzle, its signature ability, gives Kyogre tremendous offensive presence, boosting the power of its STAB Water-type attacks and making offensive sets extremely difficult to switch into, while ensuring defensive sets are anything but passive. Indeed, Drizzle means Kyogre is often the backbone of many Ubers teams, as the rain it brings supports many Pokemon ranging from Swift Swim users that have their Speed doubled in the rain to Steel- and Grass-types that appreciate rain's neutralization of their Fire-type weakness. Kyogre is not indomitable; its physical bulk, especially when uninvested, is somewhat lacking, rendering it vulnerable to strong revenge killers such as Zekrom, and its centralising nature means that Pokemon such as Ferrothorn, Palkia, Arceus-Grass, Latias, and Latios are staples on many teams to deal with Kyogre. This notwithstanding, Kyogre's exceptional versatility and immense usefulness make it extremely easy to fit on a wide variety of teams.

[SET]
name: Choice Specs
move 1: Water Spout
move 2: Surf / Hydro Pump / Scald
move 3: Ice Beam
move 4: Thunder
item: Choice Specs
nature: Modest
evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
- Strong af
- Water Spout 2HKOes Blissey, Chansey and Ferrothorn at full health and kills practically everything else not named Latias, Palkia, SpD Giratina or Water Absorb/Storm Drain/Dry Skin mons
- Surf is preferred in the 2nd slot for compromise between power and accuracy when your health is lower, while Hydro Pump lets you smash even after your HP is lowered (eg Ferrothorn can't switch in safely any more as it risks getting 2HKOed after SR) but can miss, and Scald gives you a burn chance, but the power drop is quite significant
- Ice Beam hits Latias and other Dragons hard
- Thunder hits other Water-types hard

[Additional Comments]
- 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe Modest/Timid is used so Kyogre can outspeed as many walls as possible, and also lets you base 90s and Excadrill. Loss of bulk is significant, but getting the jump on those mons can mean firing off an extra full powered Water Spout, which is nice
- Max HP / max SpA is also good if you want a tank
- Be aware that you lose a guaranteed 2HKO on Chansey if you're running Timid if SR is not up
- Other moves: Blizzard - comes very close to OHKOing Latias after SR (it doesn't, but Latias isn't lasting much longer after taking one of those)
- Pursuit (T-tar, Scizor)
- Paralysis support (Lets you do stuff like 2HKO Latias and gaf) - Use stuff like T-wave Fightceus, Groudon, Grassceus, Jirachi, Dialga)
- Pokemon that like rain - Palkia, Swift Swimmers, Torn(-T), Steel-types (Genesect, Ferrothorn, Forry, Skarm, Excadrill) Jynx, Tentacruel
- Spinners to preserve Water Spout's power - fortunately most of the spinners in Ubers benefit from rain: Kabutops, Excadrill, Tentacruel, Forry
- Things to absorb Kyogre's weaknesses: Ground-types to absorb Thunder/Bolt Strike (Groundceus, Garchomp, Hippowdon, Lando-T, Groudon if you don't care about sun), Latias/Ho-oh/Dialga/Gira/Genesect/Scizor to switch into Grass-types, Grassceus is good for both Electric and Grass
- Checks and counters: Latias, Grassceus, Palkia, Gastrodon, SpD Giratina, blobs + Ferrothorn once HP was low enough and it doesn't have Hydro Pump, more soft checks include Tentacruel, Dialga, Jynx


[SET]
name: Defensive
move 1: Roar / Calm Mind
move 2: Rest
move 3: Sleep Talk
move 4: Scald
item: Leftovers
nature: Calm
evs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD

[SET COMMENTS]
- Kyogre's 100/140 special bulk is huge. With a specially defensive build, you can check lots of special threats, biggest being CM Ghostceus, but also most CM Arcs in general (Electriceus was rare and Grassceus wasn't a Calm Minder), as well as things like Palkia
- RestTalk and Roar are your main moves used to check special attackers, especially if you have hazards up. Rest and Sleep Talk lets you last quite a long time
- Scald is so you can hit things back and it's nice being one of the most broken moves in the game
- Calm Mind can replace Roar if you're after something a bit more threatening to take down stall, as well check last mon Calm Minders (believe it or not, this is NOT rare, something like Calm Mind Ghostceus can just so happen to end up as a last mon)

[Additional Comments]
- Note you can also use this as a physically defensive Pokemon too. Specially Defensive is featured for the EV spread because Kyogre is just so damn good at it, but something like physically defensive is really good as even uninvested, Kyogre's special bulk is still great, and the physical defense lets you tank a lot of things (like RP Groudon, Lando-T, SD Groundceus, Garchomp). Not to mention Scald can burn physical attackers. You do fare a lot worse against stuff like CM Ghostceus though (although you still win, you'd just need to keep it in better conditions than you would with SpD).
- SpD is better off on stall due to its ability to check special attackers, while physically defensive can fit onto more balanced or offensive teams if you want a switch-in to a lot of things that's easily splashable, especially you're using Calm Mind.
- Calm Mind is much more effective if you're a physically defensive set, since you're just that much harder to kill.
- Thunder Wave and Toxic can be used to replace Roar or even Scald if that suits your fancy, but Roar is much more useful
- Hazards - makes this Kyogre set that much more annoying because you can just sit around and Roar shit out all day. WIthout hazards, you're a lot more like Lugia that sits around and jacks off most of the time. Since this Kyogre is more useful on defensive teams, bulkier entry hazard users are preferrable.
- SR users that fit well with SpD Kyogre: Dialga, Ferrothorn, Landorus-T, Groudon (if you don't mind sun), Hippowdon (Sand Force if you don't want sand), Forretress, Skarmory, Excadrill
- Spikes users: FERROTHORN, Skarmory, Forry
- TSpikes users: TENTACRUEL, Forry
- Pokemon that like rain - Palkia, Swift Swimmers, Torn(-T), Steel-types (Genesect, Ferrothorn, Forry, Skarm, Excadrill) Jynx, Tentacruel
- Checks/Counters: FERROTHORN, Groudon, Latis, Tentacruel, etc etc, although getting your check Roared out with a field full of hazards sucks


<Note I'm in the process of putting in the bulky spread, but it doesn't actually achieve anything specific, maybe we should tweak it a bit?>

[SET]
name: Choice Scarf
move 1: Water Spout
move 2: Surf / Hydro Pump
move 3: Ice Beam
move 4: Thunder
item: Choice Scarf
nature: Modest / Timid
evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
- Scarf patches up Kyogre's mediocre speed and lets it hit hard and be really fast too
- You can use this as both a revenge killer or late game cleaner (or both)
- Water Spout is your strongest move while Surf and Hydro Pump serve as your backup Water moves when you health go down. Don't use Scald as without Specs, it just isn't strong enough to revenge kill many things (eg you only have a 2% chance to OHKO Mewtwo after SR)
- Ice Beam hits Dragons and Grassceus while Thunder hits other Water-types

[Additional Comments]
- Modest is preferred as Timid ScarfOgre is quite weak, but Timid does let you outspeed Naive Deo-A, which is helpful (and +1 Blaziken and lets you speed tie with other base 90s at worst)
- You can run more bulk at the cost of some Speed and SpA if you want. 64 HP / 252 SpA / 192 Spe Modest lets you outspeed Mewtwo.
- Bulky spread - 168 HP / 136 SpA / 204 Spe - survives +2 Jolly SD Ray's ES, which is... whatever?
- Pursuit is greatly appreciated - weakening Latias would allow Kyogre to clean a lot more easily - T-tar/Scizor
- Things to absorb Kyogre's weaknesses: Ground-types to absorb Thunder/Bolt Strike (Groundceus, Garchomp, Hippowdon, Lando-T, Groudon if you don't care about sun), Latias/Ho-oh/Dialga/Gira/Genesect/Scizor to switch into Grass-types, Grassceus is good for both Electric and Grass
- Passing a Tail Glow to it with Volbeat is fucking sexy
- Checks and counters: Latias, Grassceus, Palkia, Gastrodon, SpD Giratina, blobs + Ferrothorn, Tentacruel, Dialga, Jynx

[SET]
name: Water Gem
move 1: Calm Mind
move 2: Water Spout
move 3: Hydro Pump / Ice Beam
move 4: Thunder / Hydro Pump
item: Water Gem
nature: Modest
evs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
- Ridiculous wallbreaker - +1 Water Spout powered by Water Gem OHKOs Ferrothorn most of the time after SR and OHKOs Blissey after SR
- Hydro Pump still lets you hit really hard after your HP is lower - Surf is not used because power drop is just way too much
- Ice Beam and Thunder are used as coverage. Thunder hits opposing Waters and Palkia harder, while Ice Beam hits Latias and other Dragon-types (note CM or SpD Latias will beat you even if you have Ice Beam). Ice Beam also means you're not fully walled by Gastrodon (although you're not going to beat Gastrodon anyway)
- You can forgo Water Spout and have both coverage moves, but you'd lack a spammable STAB move once your HP is low, so you'd have to be really careful bringing Kyogre in.

[Additional Comments]
- EVs can again, be rearranged to suit your fancy. You can always trade HP for Speed, although it's not recommended to exchange SpA for Speed or HP since this set is fully focussed on power.
- Pursuit (T-tar, Scizor)
- Paralysis support (Lets you do stuff like 2HKO Latias and gaf) - Use stuff like T-wave Fightceus, Groudon, Grassceus, Jirachi, Dialga)
- Pokemon that like rain - Palkia, Swift Swimmers, Torn(-T), Steel-types (Genesect, Ferrothorn, Forry, Skarm, Excadrill) Jynx, Tentacruel
- Pokemon that like Ferrothorn lured out and destroyed - Omastar, Manaphy, Kingdra, Palkia (basically any hard hitting Water-type), Electric Arceus
- Pokemon that like Blissey lured out and destroyed - CM Ghostceus, Omastar, Palkia, Electric Arceus, Dialga, Latias w/o Psyshock (basically any special attacker)
- Spinners to preserve Water Spout's power - fortunately most of the spinners in Ubers benefit from rain: Kabutops, Excadrill, Tentacruel, Forry
- Things to absorb Kyogre's weaknesses: Ground-types to absorb Thunder/Bolt Strike (Groundceus, Garchomp, Hippowdon, Lando-T, Groudon if you don't care about sun), Latias/Ho-oh/Dialga/Gira/Genesect/Scizor to switch into Grass-types, Grassceus is good for both Electric and Grass
- Checks and counters: Latias, Grassceus if lacking Ice Beam, SpD Giratina, Gastrodon, more soft checks include Tentacruel (if lacking Thunder which it can fish for Scald burns), Dialga


[SET]
name: Thunder Wave + 3 attacks
move 1: Thunder Wave
move 2: Surf / Hydro Pump
move 3: Ice Beam
move 4: Thunder
item: Leftovers
nature: Modest
evs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
- Thunder Wave fucks over many of Kyogre's checks/counters, namely Lati@s, Palkia, Grassceus
- Surf/Hydro for STAB, Ice Beam and Thunder for coverage
- Scald isn't as recommended due to being able to screw with Thunder Wave

[Additional Comments]
- Can have huge variations in EV spread. You can literally put EV put EVs in any stat for this set with the exception of Atk, depending on your team. If you need a physical tank, you can go HP/Def, if you need a SpD tank, go HP/SpD, you can add however much Speed to your fancy.
- Max HP and SpA are most so Kyogre can tank while keeping as much power as possible.
- Leftovers is used to give Kyogre longetivity, although Lum Berry can be used so you take a Dark Void against Darkrai and kill it (although a bit harder to do that against non-ladder-idiots since leading with Darkrai is kind of silly)
- Things that enjoy Latias lured out and paralysed: Manaphy, Palkia, Terrakion, Garchomp
- Things that enjoy Palkia lured out and paralysed: everything
- Things that enjoy Grassceus lured out and paralysed: Groudon w/ Fire Punch, Manaphy, Palkia, Terrakion, Garchomp, SD Ray, Lando-T
- Things to absorb Kyogre's weaknesses: Ground-types to absorb Thunder/Bolt Strike (Groundceus, Garchomp, Hippowdon, Lando-T, Groudon if you don't care about sun), Latias/Ho-oh/Dialga/Gira/Genesect/Scizor to switch into Grass-types, Grassceus is good for both Electric and Grass
- Things that enjoy rain
- Checks and counters: Gastrodon, SpD Giratina, blobs + Ferrothorn once HP was low enough, more soft checks include Tentacruel, Dialga


[SET]
name: SubCM
move 1: Substitute
move 2: Calm Mind
move 3: Scald / Surf
move 4: Ice Beam
item: Leftovers
nature: Modest
evs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
- Kyogre's HP is just enough so it can make 101 HP Subs, allowing it to set up on Blissey/Chansey.
- Scald is preferred STAB because this set focusses more on slow boosting, and burns really help against that (especially against Ferrothorn), although Surf is good for consistent power
- Ice Beam is preferred since you have a better chance to beat Gastrodon with this set (you win if they lack EQ, although they really shouldn't)
- Thunder can do a lot better against opposing Kyogres (esp SpD), and Palkia, but leaves you utterly helpless against Gastrodon (and to an CM-less Latias)

[Additional Comments]
- Again, EVs are quite malleable, although 252 HP is needed since you want 404 HP to make 101 HP Subs. Not having 101 HP Subs is still usable, but the main draw of this set is the ability to make 101 HP Subs.
- Speed - +6 4 SpA Surf cannot 2HKO Chansey, which is really weak, so that's something you need to consider, you need 399 SpA minimum (neutral max) to do 50% minimum to Chansey with Surf so you can OHKO with a crit.
- Phys Def - max HP/max Def has a chance to make your Sub survive a burnt Ferrothorn's Power Whip, but the odds are against you (does 23.76% - 28.22%) - however you do become pretty damn bulky and hard to kill
- Things to absorb Kyogre's weaknesses: Ground-types to absorb Thunder/Bolt Strike (Groundceus, Garchomp, Hippowdon, Lando-T, Groudon if you don't care about sun), Latias/Ho-oh/Dialga/Gira/Genesect/Scizor to switch into Grass-types, Grassceus is good for both Electric and Grass
- Things that like rain
- Checks and counters: Latias, Grassceus if lacking Ice Beam, Gastrodon, SpD Giratina, Ferrothorn (needs Power Whip), Roar Dialga

[Other Options]
- ChestoRest
- Mixed w/ Mystic Water - Waterfall / Hydro Pump / Thunder / Ice Beam
- CB - Best set ever
- Toxic - for Shedinja, Gastrodon, Latias, Grassceus, Waterceus
- HP Grass - for Gastrodon
- Hail + Ice Gem + Blizzard


[Checks and Counters]
- Latias - watch out for Thunder Wave
- Grassceus - watch out for Thunder Wave
- Palkia - watch out for Thunder Wave
- SpD Giratina
- Gastrodon
- Blissey/Chansey
- Ferrothorn vs non-Specs/Water Gem - also watch out for Scald, getting burnt by it still sucks
- Waterceus + Groudon
- SpD Dialga does well against pretty much every set except Specs and Water Gem
- SpD Kyogre as long as you don't switch into Thunder
- Jynx can switch into most things except Thunder Wave or Thunder
- Latios
- Zekrom
- Kingdra for the not-immediately-hard-hitting Kyogres, especially if you have Outrage
- Electric Arceus
- Rayquaza for Ice Beam-lacking Kyogres
 
Last edited:

aurora

GODQUAZA
is a Contributor to Smogonis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
I'll have this finished by the end of the week, sorry for not having made progress - got bogged down by final exams and the like after taking this
 

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