SPOILERS! Pokemon Sun and Moon Full Game Datamine General Discussion Thread

[Kietharr]

I think that Golem A will actually be pretty good, though the fact that it shits on Talonflame is less relevant because Gamefreak saw it fit to shit on the poor bird even harder. Sadly I don't think it has Stealth Rock due to rocks not being a TM or gen 7 tutor move but it'll probably get it in 7.5, and at that point it becomes the perfect Skarmory counter, able to switch in to it, trap it and set rocks all at once.

Also Galvanize Explosion will be funny. Sadly Garchomp's presence in VGC17 will put a major limit on Golem-A's usability without air balloon in that format.

 

[Jerdor]

Is there a list of all the changes to old mons?

 

[Project_Mars]

BREAKING:

https://i.4cdn.org/vp/1478633534522.jpg

GALE WINGS ONLY WORKS WHEN TALONFLAME IS MAX HP

Talonflame is No more. It has ceased to be. It's expired and gone to meet its maker. It's a stiff, bereft of life. If the pet shop owner hadn't nailed it down it would be pushing up the dasies. It's battened down the hatches and gone to join the choir invisible. This. Is an Ex-Parrot.

 

[Green]

would have been cool if Golem-A had Surge Surfer or an ability that gave him Levitate under Electric Terrain

 

[Wishy]

I'm hearing that gale wings might've been nerfed to only work at full hp. Not sure if true or not though

Edit: Confirmed https://twitter.com/pokemon_PhD/status/796075822910177280
rip talonflame

That's brutal. SR is an even bigger bitch to Talonflame now and even if it gets in at 100%, Brave Bird will only get priority once because of recoil. No more priority Roost either.

The ability made the bird for sure... we'll always have gen6 buddy.

 

[DHR-107]

Am I missing something about the video vs the file?
Vulpix has freeze-dry in the video

The file we have though says no freeze-dry and we have heat wave even though heat wave wasn't in the video?
https://paste.ee/r/zYMUr

This move listing has some incorrect information when it comes to egg moves. Alolan Vulpix does not get any Fire Moves. I'll see if I can find a better version and link that in the miner thread. Use Kaphotics' videos if you are unsure. They can be found here: https://www.youtube.com/user/Kaphotics/videos

 

[oreofestar]

so they completely destroyed Talonflame but Greninja gets a new busted form....seems fair

 

[Green]

so they completely destroyed Talonflame but Greninja gets a new busted form....seems fair

but it can't breed

 

[chuckeroo777]

so they completely destroyed Talonflame but Greninja gets a new busted form....seems fair

To be fair, Talonflame's ability is still better than most early birds. Greninja on the other hand seems meh. Locked to a neutral nature and needing a KO... I'll stick to protean.

 

[oreofestar]

Do we know if the sound based moves also become stronger? And it seems to be just hyper voice. Kinda of a let down ability.

It does seem to get Perish song, which is not bad, but breeding only, which means if I just only use the starter I can't use that :(

If the moves dont get stronger then the ability isnt good, now if it got Boomburst then Id take that back but of course it doesnt

 

[Vengeance417]

but it can't breed

Plus, it's Hardy nature-locked.

 

[oreofestar]

but it can't breed

but it can't breed

let me just be sad about my UU birdy

 

[SkyknightMu]

let me just be sad about my UU birdy

UU is still a place of honor, last I heard.

 

[The Synchronic Infernape]

To be fair, Talonflame's ability is still better than most early birds. Greninja on the other hand seems meh. Locked to a neutral nature and needing a KO... I'll stick to protean.

Ash-Greninja was obviously put in the game to somewhat appeal to the angry anime fans

 

[Zepeln]

I still dont understand why they felt the need to nerf the Legendary Beasts and Gengar. They weren't on the same level as Gale Wings.

 

[Rarycaris]

So gamefreak's definitely been making strides to help nerf some common VGC stuff (the systematic take down of priority, for one) but has anything affected Landorus-T & Thundurus

I guess Thundurus has priority nerfs for prankster stuff, but you'd think landorus would have got hit with something too. It's been like 5 years of Landorus and I always saw complaints about it and the others.

Thundurus also has nerfs to Swagger via the confusion chance nerf and Thunder Wave's accuracy.

But yeah, Landorus is basically untouched, except maybe by the increased presence of ice types.

 

[Norne]

Talonflame is No more. It has ceased to be. It's expired and gone to meet its maker. It's a stiff, bereft of life. If the pet shop owner hadn't nailed it down it would be pushing up the dasies. It's battened down the hatches and gone to join the choir invisible. This. Is an Ex-Parrot.

Only Godlike British humour can save us from this shit.

 

[Deck Knight]

T-Flame nerf primarily impacts Mega choice, since those were the category of mons that actually stood a chance at outspeeding its Brave Bird otherwise and cared about it. Losing priority Roost on the BU SpD set is what's going to hurt it most.

 

[zferolie]

If the moves dont get stronger then the ability isnt good, now if it got Boomburst then Id take that back but of course it doesnt

Yeah the ability doesn't say it makes them stronger, so that seems like a lose. And its not like your are making moves like Perish song or growl or anything like that start to effect ghost types because they always could.

Maybe if it was like how FLying press works, that it ADDS the water typing as well, then maybe, but it doesn't seem like the case, A real shame honestly. It seems only Inceniror has a really good Hidden ability. Still,e Torrent and overgrow are useful.

Whats with all the Ash-Greninja hate? Water Shurican has priority, so it becomes a great revenge killer. with Water shurican already getting a buff, it should be a good way to get Ash-Greninja out and about, and ready to do some good damage.

Yup settled on my first teams for both games. I am quite excited for all these buffs, nerfs, tweaks, and changes, since now I am super motivated to make pokemon teams with every pokemon in the game again. With more pokemon going to be viable this should be extra fun!

 

[Avant Heim]

R I P Talonflame,my talonflame nick will not be making any sense in Gen 7
But really,GENGAR?!

 

[Norne]

T-Flame nerf primarily impacts Mega choice, since those were the category of mons that actually stood a chance at outspeeding its Brave Bird otherwise and cared about it. Losing priority Roost on the BU SpD set is what's going to hurt it most.

T flame was my primary fairy check , I mean now I actually have to run Jolly and outspeed positive 103 base speed to actually allow it to be good and run enough spdef to wall mega Gardevoir and burn Garchomp.

Losing priority brave bird is also a new level of bullshit.

 

[Kietharr]

Yeah, pretty sure Talonflame will remain OU and will definitely remain strong in Battlespot/VGC but the change limits its options since it can't always get away with no/very low speed investment.

 

[Avant Heim]

The Gengar Story is just like Chandelure,when they changed Shadow Tag for Infiltrator

 

[Green]

excited for this meta to not be so speed and priority focused

 

[IcyMan28]

So much to process. Still bummed that Tapu Koko lacks Play Rough, as a good physical electric and fairy type is something we could use, but it is salvageable.

Tapu Koko@Life Orb
Naive; Atk / SpA / Max Speed

Calm Mind
Grass Knot
Wild Charge
Dazzling Gleam

Problem solved.

Gf certainly made some...interesting choices this gen.