Serious US Election Thread (read post #2014)

[TheValkyries]

Youre not convinced it was racially motivated? White people voted in a way that had only ever been seen in minority groups in terms of near "monolithic" mobilized voting bloc. The thing is they're still the majority population. Man this ridiculous "idk if race played a huge factor" his campaign was literally "fuck Muslims FUCK Mexicans". His vision of black communities was some fucked up fetishized lawless Wild West type murder city. THESE THINGS ARE HOW TRUMP SUPPORTERS SEE THESE ISSUES. Stop trying to be apologist and say "no their views are nuanced and are not ethnically biased at all!!"

To deny that race was the most singular clear issue that defined the voter turnout is to straight up deny reality. White people voted for Trump. White men. White women. White baby boomers. White millenials. White. People. Is that just some happenstance accident that they voted for the fuck brown people candidate?

 

[JALMONT]

Youre not convinced it was racially motivated? White people voted in a way that had only ever been seen in minority groups in terms of near "monolithic" mobilized voting bloc. The thing is they're still the majority population. Man this ridiculous "idk if race played a huge factor" his campaign was literally "fuck Muslims FUCK Mexicans". His vision of black communities was some fucked up fetishized lawless Wild West type murder city. THESE THINGS ARE HOW TRUMP SUPPORTERS SEE THESE ISSUES. Stop trying to be apologist and say "no their views are nuanced and are not ethnically biased at all!!"

To deny that race was the most singular clear issue that defined the voter turnout is to straight up deny reality. White people voted for Trump. White men. White women. White baby boomers. White millenials. White. People. Is that just some happenstance accident that they voted for the fuck brown people candidate?

Yes I am not convinced that the entirety of white Americans who voted for Trump did so from a racially motivated standpoint. Sorry, but it is not being an apologist to not immediately generalize all Trump voters as racists. Sure, it is entirely possible that you are correct and all Trump voters have the views that you think they do. But I genuinely believe that things are a lot more complicated than that. I genuinely feel that for certain people, the importance of Trump's message wasn't his racist rhetoric, but his status as "anti-establishment" (whether true or not), his claims of wanting to get rid of corruption in Congress, bring jobs back to economically depressed areas, whatever. I'm positive that many people felt that Trump was the lesser of two evils, even if their opinion was "wrong." To a white man living in a predominantly white area, I think he would be willing to accept the "racist" part of Trump's message because that part doesn't necessarily apply to him, if only to believe in the message that is relevant to him. Is that right? I don't know. I'm sure you probably don't think so. Maybe that truly is racist of that person to not consider the bigger picture of inequality? But calling him racist won't change how he feels. It didn't win Clinton the vote.

But let's just say that you're right, and all Trump supporters are racist. Fine. What happened to Democrat voter turnout? Donald Trump won white voters at a margin almost identical to Romney in 2012 (who I wouldn't consider a "fuck brown people candidate" but IDK maybe you do). Donald Trump won black and Latino voters at a margin similar to Romney in 2012 (actually did a little better compared to Romney). If race was so important to this election, then what happened to Clinton's Latino support? Where did those voters go?

I will agree with anyone that Trump is a terrible candidate who shouldn't have won. So where did all those Democrat votes from 2012 go? I think that is best explained by the weakness in the Democratic candidate and I think understanding where the Democrats went wrong is much more important that harping about racist white Americans. If truly all Trump voters are white and racist, what should we do about that? No one has offered a solution to the problem if things truly are that bad.

It's quite possible that I've misread something, or gone wrong somewhere. I'd love to hear where I've potentially misinterpreted something.

 

[Yeti]

You know who else "hates Mexicans?"

People from other Hispanic countries who, wow, are also racists. Who then turned out to vote for Trump to keep the Mexicans they dislike out of the country they immigrated to. It's a sad truth but Mexicans can be seen as the dirty bottom of the ladder by other Latino ethnicities so is it any surprise those who immigrated here legally are eager to vote for someone who will keep the illegal Mexicans out?

White people may have voted for Trump way more than they did for Hillary but solely white people did not vote for Trump yet there is nothing in your post criticizing the inter-Latino racism and what would not at all surprise me if there was racism against those from the Middle East by other ethnicities as well.

Minorities didn't come out to support Hillary like they did for Obama as well. Why? Because her campaign sucked. WTF was she going to do for any of them? She was trying to get the women's vote with the #ImWithHer tag but clearly though a lot of women voted her, not all of them were going to vote Hillary just because she has a vagina.

Muh uneducated white peoples lol. More people with some college or less voted for Bill Clinton in 92 and 96 than his Republican opposition, including white. More people with some college or less voted Democrat in 2008. There was a very large gap in how strongly Republican white voters went in 2016 but I hear nothing about "lmao uneducated idiots voting Dem" in the years Clinton-Bill and Obama won.

But yeah keep harping about how white people ruined everything and see if those people who are tired of being berated and thought policed vote Democrat in 2020.

White people this white people that what an incredibly American-centric view of "white people" ... as if those who aren't white who are born in another country can't do crappy things or be racist. Or all of those in Europe who have the same skin tones are guilty of the same things for the same reasons. Hello? There is a ton of corruption in other countries politically. The atrocities Japan committed in World War 2 are skimmed over in some pathetic white guilt apology for bombing Japan instead of highlighting the messed up crap they did to China. Unit 731 is probably never mentioned in schools alongside the sick experiments Nazi's did on prisoners because the Japanese government denies it so it can't "officially" be in history books.

Spoilers: no race/ethnicity is perfect. There are corrupt and terrible people in all of them who can rise into power and commit terrible acts like genocides, murders, wars, blah blah blah. Or broken and tragic views within other countries regarding classism and race and what region you're from in the country and the list goes on.

Simply because one race did something wrong doesn't mean another didn't or isn't also problematic in their mindsets.

Hillary lost something like 10 million voters off Obama meanwhile Trump had relatively the same amount as McCain and Romney did. Clearly something was wrong with HER campaign that she lost so many voters and racial minorities did not come to bat for her in the polls. "White people" did not cause her inability to promote voter turnout among the minorities. They may have identified more strongly with Trump's racist views and I do think he is a crappy racist rapist who shouldn't have been the Republican nom than the "omg white people suckkkkkkk" liberals are spewing because wow imagine when nobody likes their race being put on blast.

The way to reconcile voters of all minorities voting for racially-motivated reasons is not to spew more hate and blame but to try and express concerns and encourage compassion for those different from you.

Blanket labeling anyone who expresses concerns of Islamic extremists as Islamophobic is a perfect example of the problem here. One can take a problem with those members of Islam who still believe in beheadings and stoning and that women shouldn't leave the house without a man to escort them without pissing on the entire religion/group of people.

White people have been voting Republican more than Democrat as a group since at least 1980. It's not like they all voted for Clinton and Obama and suddenly reversed course to vote for Trump, they have BEEN trending towards Republican for DECADES. And there are of course white Democrats (hello Hollywood) and black/Latino Republicans.

It's bent that Trump got so many votes and won but "filthy stupid white people" should make it no surprise why white people voted for a guy and a party who DON'T say that. Especially when you hear nothing about uneducated white voters when they go Democratic, only Republican. Suddenly the Democrats have a problem with that demographic being just too stupid to vote right... when they don't vote Democrat.

Stop blaming any one race as if only that race can be racist or hold problematic views of other races/religions/ethnicities and start blaming the DNC for their failure to nominate someone who could beat a shoddy candidate like Trump and trying to address the conditions that make Trump able to garner votes, constructively and productively.

 

[TheValkyries]

How convenient it is to forget that the teeth from the VRA was stripped recently in the Supreme Court and that there were multiple concerted efforts to suppress the minority vote. Yeah Hillary's campaign was underwhelming and she's an awful fucking candidate but cmon now "yeah minorities didn't show up to stop the racist!" Doesn't have the same force in this context.

Man I do not CARE that white people cant take it when it is mentioned that they are promoting rhetoric and continuing a long bloody history of being horrible people to those who are not white. Stop hiding behind the frailty of the white ego to try and defend those who are complicit in white supremacy from us horrible lefties who want them to stop harming minority communities. Christ almighty it's tiring to get this brand of conservative pushback over and over and over again. I mean MLKs paragraph about the white moderate from his letter in a Birmingham jail was already quoted in this thread! And yet still we're getting the "well your tone isn't helping" backlash.

And then there's the "what about Latino on Latino racism" thing mixed in there which is a personal favorite as well as the litany of rebuttals to things I did not say.

To be clear you do not have to be white to be complicit in white supremacy. (Kinda like you don't have to be a dude to be complicit in the patriarchy). White Supremacy is not the only version OF racism in the world, yes but that doesn't make it less caustic and abhorrent. And acknowledging the stranglehold white supremacy has on our past and present politics is about the most productive and constructive thing our society can do.

Shit and it's not like Hillary wasn't also a huge purveyor of white supremacy as well but she's about the best the Dems can get on that front. Yes her failures and shortcomings were fucking abundant but it was more than just those that won Trump the election.

 

[Blue_Tornado]

Let's break it down

Trump's campaign slogan:

• MAGA MAGA MAGA

What this entails:

• Fuck immigrants [x]
• Strong foreign policy []
• Emphasis on economic growth []
• Disdain for current Republican/Democratic party bases []

So definitely not just immigrants

It's exactly the same as when the Remain people said Brexit was all dog whistles - it was part of it, but ignoring the other reasons people had isn't doing anyone any good

 

[Divine Retribution]

How convenient it is to forget that the teeth from the VRA was stripped recently in the Supreme Court and that there were multiple concerted efforts to suppress the minority vote. Yeah Hillary's campaign was underwhelming and she's an awful fucking candidate but cmon now "yeah minorities didn't show up to stop the racist!" Doesn't have the same force in this context.

Man I do not CARE that white people cant take it when it is mentioned that they are promoting rhetoric and continuing a long bloody history of being horrible people to those who are not white. Stop hiding behind the frailty of the white ego to try and defend those who are complicit in white supremacy from us horrible lefties who want them to stop harming minority communities. Christ almighty it's tiring to get this brand of conservative pushback over and over and over again. I mean MLKs paragraph about the white moderate from his letter in a Birmingham jail was already quoted in this thread! And yet still we're getting the "well your tone isn't helping" backlash.

And then there's the "what about Latino on Latino racism" thing mixed in there which is a personal favorite as well as the litany of rebuttals to things I did not say.

To be clear you do not have to be white to be complicit in white supremacy. (Kinda like you don't have to be a dude to be complicit in the patriarchy). White Supremacy is not the only version OF racism in the world, yes but that doesn't make it less caustic and abhorrent. And acknowledging the stranglehold white supremacy has on our past and present politics is about the most productive and constructive thing our society can do.

Shit and it's not like Hillary wasn't also a huge purveyor of white supremacy as well but she's about the best the Dems can get on that front. Yes her failures and shortcomings were fucking abundant but it was more than just those that won Trump the election.

Whoa-ho-ho. I usually wouldn't touch this kind of post with a ten-foot pole and a HazMat suit on but I'd like to ask you a question...

What if you're right? What exactly do you think should be done about it?

 

[Yeti]

I don't know what you expect. I'm not sorry for being white. I'm not sorry my ancestors have all been white. I'm not sorry you can trace my last name back to the Frenchman who came here during the Revolutionary War and fought for America. I'm not sorry all of these factors have given me an incredibly pale skin tone that makes me part of the majority in this country, completely out of my own control.

I am sorry that people of all colors and ethnicities have been discriminated against, treated poorly or systematically harmed in this world's history, no matter who the perpetrator was. I regret that white people have often done horrific things to others. I regret that non-white people have also often done horrific things to others. I think it is important to respect and treat people equally no matter how they look or where their ancestors came from or what skin tone they have.

I did not vote for Trump. I do not think he is a good person. I do not support his brand of racism. But I am white. You post nonsense like "white people are to blame" as if all white people in America voted and/or approved of Trump. It's literally not my fault I am white yet it is my fault "white people ruined everything and voted Trump" because I share the color a majority of Trump's voters do?

You can try and deny how prejudiced other races can be all you like and blame it all on white people. That'll get you nowhere. At some point you lose the ability to care as strongly about race-related issues when your race gets blasted for existing all the time. Like yes I think it is very important those of all races get treated equally but it's just eyes-glaze-over tier to read WHITE PEOPLE SUCK as the most constructive thing you can say on race.

_____ should not be discriminated against or treated poorly in any way. Fill in the blank with every single race and ethnicity out there. That is the attitude all people should have regarding diversity. Not "lol who can we blame."

 

[Ash Borer]

Youre not convinced it was racially motivated? White people voted in a way that had only ever been seen in minority groups in terms of near "monolithic" mobilized voting bloc. The thing is they're still the majority population. Man this ridiculous "idk if race played a huge factor" his campaign was literally "fuck Muslims FUCK Mexicans". His vision of black communities was some fucked up fetishized lawless Wild West type murder city. THESE THINGS ARE HOW TRUMP SUPPORTERS SEE THESE ISSUES. Stop trying to be apologist and say "no their views are nuanced and are not ethnically biased at all!!"

To deny that race was the most singular clear issue that defined the voter turnout is to straight up deny reality. White people voted for Trump. White men. White women. White baby boomers. White millenials. White. People. Is that just some happenstance accident that they voted for the fuck brown people candidate?

you're so possessed by your ideology you are so fucking blind to literally anything else. Political conservatism and right wing economics are not a product of racism. They're a product of high conscientiousness and low compassion. A large part of the republican voter base simply vote republican because they are conservative, as dictated by their inherent personalities. Your massive simplification of every single voter's choice, that literally all of them voted on the basis of race, and nothing else is so fucking useless! No one voted for trump because they believe in a more capitalistic, and less socialist economy, which is what the republicans represent to them? No one voted for Trump because he promised to re-industrialize America, and there are people who want those lucrative jobs back? No one voted for trump because their primary interest is less restrictive firearm laws? it was all just racists that hate seeing those fuckin brown people right? Of course many of them are real racists, but so many of them have a mere lack of compassion. An ability to tell themselves that nothing really bad will happen if Trump gets elected, and they really care about some other issue.

How can you possibly begin to address this problem if you truly think that? You so readily conflate every single form, shape, and degree of racism that you can never truly understand it. Trump is fucking shit, but just spitting at every single one of his voters and calling them just as racist as the other does fucking nothing to help. It does nothing to engage with them, it gives you no opportunity to actually have a dialogue about each other's beliefs and to possibly convince them that what they believe is wrong. You show zero sympathy, you give no humanization to a racist. They're just a fucking incorrigible enemy to you, aren't they?

People have reasons for being racist. I'm not saying they're justified. I'm not saying they're right. I'm saying that your inability to in any way see WHY they might be like this, and your inhibition to engage with these people, have some sympathy, understand them, and then use that understanding to then heal racism, will not do any good. Simply by dehumanizing racists, showing them no sympathy, having no willingness to take their views seriously and refute them, but instead just calling them immoral human trash the left has failed to truly defeat racism. Trump's election is proof.

 

[TheValkyries]

Divine Retribution What should be done is that we listen to minority communities and believe them and what they say. We have to learn about race and white supremacy and how it manifests and challenge it where we see it. We have to as a society stop continuing this blind denial of the existence of race and racism. And we have to undo the structures in society built by white supremacy that do harm to minority communities.

 

[Kirby J. Parasol]

This [most recent tweet] continues to prove he is detatched from the reality and seriousness of his situation, and that he still dabbles in conspiracy theories. This is not good.

Just a little conspiracy theory evidence found at the Portland riots tonight.
https://twitter.com/JaredWyand/status/796984205456633856

 

[RODAN]

I think a lot of people forget the Illegal part of Illegal Immigration. Wanting to deport people who aren't in your country legally isn't racist. Its upholding the law. Now if you took it a step further and said "Trump wants to get rid of ALL Mexicans" which I don't think he does, it would make more sense to be having this argument. The way a select group of people are acting is definitely racist, but it isn't the entire population so you can't paint everyone with such a broad brush. The Refugee situation is a lot more complicated and I don't know where I personally stand on it. I'd like to think that I would be accepting of them entering the country, but then I think about "Would I accept one to live in my house" and the answer is usually a resounding no. So I don't really think its a racism thing more of a xenophobia thing. And that makes sense, xenophobia has been perpetuated by the Govt for most of my life. So sometimes its hard to look past These preconcieved notions and really better things. Not everyone is perfect, and not everyone can do anything. People have to stop treating people like garbage. Calling people racists or nazis or whatever isn't going to solve anything.

 

[Divine Retribution]

Divine Retribution What should be done is that we listen to minority communities and believe them and what they say. We have to learn about race and white supremacy and how it manifests and challenge it where we see it. We have to as a society stop continuing this blind denial of the existence of race and racism. And we have to undo the structures in society built by white supremacy that do harm to minority communities.

I'm Hispanic myself and I would never want anyone to "listen to and believe" me just like that. There's not a single person or group of people on the planet who I regard highly to allow them to act as a Grand Arbiter of Truth or something, and I include myself in that. Abandoning skepticism and due process in the name of attempting to end prejudice is not only going to create a whole new set of problems, it's not even going to work in the first place.

If you're right you'll be able to prove it in a discussion or debate using reasonable arguments and statistics. If you can do that, rational people will be on your side and there's no reason for a "listen and believe" mentality. If you can't do that, then maybe you should take another look at your own position.

People who aren't going to be convinced by a rational discussion aren't going to be the type of people to listen to and believe minorities in the first place. I fail to see how your proposed solution would have any measurable impact on the problem of racism, because the people who genuinely are racist are going to laugh at you and tell you to go fuck yourself. The only thing you would accomplish is the erosion of due process and taking us another step closer to a police state.

 

[Aladyyn]

Divine Retribution What should be done is that we listen to minority communities and believe them and what they say. We have to learn about race and white supremacy and how it manifests and challenge it where we see it. We have to as a society stop continuing this blind denial of the existence of race and racism. And we have to undo the structures in society built by white supremacy that do harm to minority communities.

Wouldn't that be a good thing?

 

[Eo Ut Mortus]

At this point, I'm just rambling and not really responding to Eo but yeah.

Well, I'm glad you acknowledged that. If not, then based on your extended defense of your opinion of the DNC, I'd be forced to assume you misconstrued my post as an absolution of the DNC's accountability. To make it clear, nowhere in my post do I argue they can't be blamed, and nowhere in my post do I discourage assigning blame to them (or anyone else). All I said was you can't place all of the blame on the DNC; that is to say, the election was decided by more than a single factor. You agreed with this. That's all I wanted to establish. Racism was one such factor, and people choose to focus on that for various reasons. It's their prerogative, just as it is yours to focus on the DNC.

Incidentally, if you consider the DNC the largest factor in this election, what steps would you suggest the average concerned citizen take to ensure the DNC doesn't fuck up in 2020? And would any of them necessarily happen to prevent people from simultaneously addressing racial issues?

 

[Legitimate Username]

I think a lot of people forget the Illegal part of Illegal Immigration. Wanting to deport people who aren't in your country legally isn't racist. Its upholding the law. Now if you took it a step further and said "Trump wants to get rid of ALL Mexicans" which I don't think he does, it would make more sense to be having this argument. The way a select group of people are acting is definitely racist, but it isn't the entire population so you can't paint everyone with such a broad brush. The Refugee situation is a lot more complicated and I don't know where I personally stand on it. I'd like to think that I would be accepting of them entering the country, but then I think about "Would I accept one to live in my house" and the answer is usually a resounding no. So I don't really think its a racism thing more of a xenophobia thing. And that makes sense, xenophobia has been perpetuated by the Govt for most of my life. So sometimes its hard to look past These preconcieved notions and really better things. Not everyone is perfect, and not everyone can do anything. People have to stop treating people like garbage. Calling people racists or nazis or whatever isn't going to solve anything.

"Just in case y'all were wondering how’s Mexico doing…
Our coin went from 18 pesos to 21.50 pesos a dollar (and will probably reach 22.50), our products and services will be more expensive by the morning. No one will want to invest here. We’re humiliated, we were called rapists and apparently most of you agree. We’re threatened to be separated by a wall… Do you have idea how many millions of families will be separated? How many children will see their parents being deported? The violence migrants will receive? How deeply your economy will be affected? Old and young, we have our heads down, we don’t know what to expect. But thanks for making it clear, one more time, how hated we are for most of you."

Maybe it's not a bad thing to want to uphold the law and that isn't strictly racist in itself. But every way in which he went about it, calling them rapists (the hypocrisy) and making threats of forcing them to pay for a wall is absolutely an idiotic way of going about it. The way he's saying things have very real effects that are already starting to affect many people negatively.

I don't actually believe that anyone who voted for Trump is racist, but they still willfully voted for his racist policies, whether they were racist themselves or simply willing to turn a blind eye because it wouldn't affect them negatively directly. I'm fully aware that some people voted for Trump for reasons such as economic desperation, but they still supported putting a bigot in office whether their intentions were good or not. Intentions are not what matter here, because it's their actions that have consequences. Call it racist if you want or don't, I really couldn't care less about what words people use. Whether someone's a racist or not, supporting one for office should be downright unacceptable, even if the consequences aren't going to affect them personally.

 

[vonFiedler]

I think a lot of people forget the Illegal part of Illegal Immigration.

Illegal like speeding and pirating media? There are tons of laws the average conservative don't give a shit about. But people are suddenly going to act lawful-neutral when the law specifically involves one race of people and is also a manufactured issue in terms of importance (more mexicans leave now than enter, so mission accomplished). I was raised conservative in a small town with a mexican population. Maybe the "liberal elite" can only assume, but nobody is pulling a fast one on me over this. I remember exactly how those conversations went down behind closed doors.

 

[Divine Retribution]

Incidentally, if you consider the DNC the largest factor in this election, what steps would you suggest the average concerned citizen take to ensure the DNC doesn't fuck up in 2020? And would any of them necessarily happen to prevent people from simultaneously addressing racial issues?

I think the onus is mostly on the DNC to learn from their mistakes, and develop a modicum of respect for democratic process. They also need to take a closer look at the candidates they're supporting (or better yet, try being impartial for once), because choosing to back Clinton over Sanders when you're facing up against a populist like Trump is just indefensibly stupid, and everyone can see it.

As for what the average citizen can do, you could try what I've done all along; don't fucking blindly trust the DNC. Listen to them. Take in their opinions. Digest them, break them down, examine them critically. Then decide for yourself. This in no way stops you from simultaneously addressing racial issues, but it does help minimize the impact of any potential bias from the DNC in the future.

Also, support whistleblowers instead of demonizing them. Call out organizations like the DNC when they do things that are blatantly undemocratic. If you care about democracy, you should care about things like this. Maybe if enough people tell them to stop being morons, the message will get through.

 

[RODAN]

Illegal like speeding and pirating media? There are tons of laws the average conservative don't give a shit about. But people are suddenly going to act lawful-neutral when the law specifically involves one race of people and is also a manufactured issue in terms of importance (more mexicans leave now than enter, so mission accomplished). I was raised conservative in a small town with a mexican population. Maybe the "liberal elite" can only assume, but nobody is pulling a fast one on me over this. I remember exactly how those conversations went down behind closed doors.

in a perfect world all Illegal activity should be treated equally, I'm not saying I'm any better than other people. I just was bringing up a point that I thought people glossed over.

 

[Shaka Brah]

Are you going to compare rape to jaywalking next von?

 

[Divine Retribution]

in a perfect world all Illegal activity should be treated equally, I'm not saying I'm any better than other people. I just was bringing up a point that I thought people glossed over.

Uh, what? So a serial rape-murder spree should be treated equally with stealing a candy bar from the local gas station?

 

[RODAN]

Uh, what? So a serial rape-murder spree should be treated equally with stealing a candy bar from the local gas station?

OK I worded that really poorly. Thats on me. I meant they should all be treated ad crimes. Everything that is illegal should be held accountable for. I didn't mean to downplay that some crimes are worse than others.

 

[Legitimate Username]

Are you going to compare rape to jaywalking next von?

What a fucking strawman.

He's not equating illegal immigration to piracy, he's literally just criticizing "illegal" as a blanket statement when many conservatives have racially-driven motives rather than being purely lawful-neutral in their intentions.

Like I don't see how this counterargument is even slightly relevant, jeez.

 

[Divine Retribution]

OK I worded that really poorly. Thats on me. I meant they should all be treated ad crimes. Everything that is illegal should be held accountable for. I didn't mean to downplay that some crimes are worse than others.

Oh, well yeah I agree to an extent then. Either crimes should be prosecuted, or if prosecution is unjustifiable they shouldn't be crimes. I make exceptions for whistleblowers leaking copyrighted, classified, or sensitive material on a case-by-case basis, but that's just my personal opinion.

Sorry for the misunderstanding, by the way.

 

[Shaka Brah]

But the problem with illegal immigration is just that it is illegal and it has severe socioeconomic implications that speeding or torrenting a movie don't hold a candle to. His criticism makes no sense.

 

[vonFiedler]

in a perfect world all Illegal activity should be treated equally, I'm not saying I'm any better than other people. I just was bringing up a point that I thought people glossed over.

Equally how? It probably should be treated equally to speeding. By no means do I think speeding laws shouldn't be enforced, that'd be insane. But I also don't give a shit about speeding. Even though waaaaaaaaaaaaay more people are killed by speeding each year than by mexican immigrants. You can't exaggerate the difference. (so I guess Shaka Brah Speeding is the rape in your analogy. Or were you comparing Mexicans to rapists?) So yes, that's pretty much how equally they should be treated. Enforced, but not some kind of platform for people to lose unnecessary sleep over whether they are being fooled into fear-mongering or being harassed for their race.

"All crimes should be punished" (rewording, not trying to strawman) is a pretty scary thought. Not all laws are good. Historically or currently. Immigration laws aren't bad by nature but they can be enforced horridly.

RODAN!!! I don't think you're an idiot. At this stage in cynicism's victory over the world I wouldn't bother conversing with you if I thought you were.