ASB GEN VII Intro Tournament: Signups

[Gale Wing Srock]

In

 

[Maxim]

There's no way I'm winning this, but I'm in it anyways.

 

[smashlloyd20]

Yep

 

[P2X7]

While reviewing the rules for this tournament, I happened upon this troublesome bit of information:

Team Selection

This tournament will use rentals. You will need to claim 6 GENERATION SEVEN(Alola forms of old Pokemon count) NON-LEGENDARY(if it and its pre-evos can't be bought with CC, it's a legendary for this purpose, so yes UBs count as legendaries) Pokemon, which should be PMd to me and Toon upon signup, with:

• All moves gained for free upon claiming that Pokemon(5 eggs/5 TMs/all pre-25 level up) and then additional moves it can learn to a total of 40 moves.
• Hidden Ability unlocked if desired.
• Maximum EC if desired. don't use an nfe they all suck
• Any item can be equipped. Any item that would be banned anyway is only relevant if you have a legendary so :/

Please tell me that this was a typographical error, as, otherwise, the pool of usable Pokemon has only 12 choices (Dhelmise, Mimikyu, Turtonator, Drampa, Bruxish, Oricorio, Oranguru, Passimian, Wishiwashi, Minior, Komala, and Comfey), or zero if single-stage Pokemon are excluded by virtue of possessing no pre-evolutions.

 

[Someoneelse]

While reviewing the rules for this tournament, I happened upon this troublesome bit of information:


Please tell me that this was a typographical error, as, otherwise, the pool of usable Pokemon has only 12 choices (Dhelmise, Mimikyu, Turtonator, Drampa, Bruxish, Oricorio, Oranguru, Passimian, Wishiwashi, Minior, Komala, and Comfey), or zero if single-stage Pokemon are excluded by virtue of possessing no pre-evolutions.

pedant

 

[deadfox081]

Yep I'll play

 

[acidphoenix]

While reviewing the rules for this tournament, I happened upon this troublesome bit of information:


Please tell me that this was a typographical error, as, otherwise, the pool of usable Pokemon has only 12 choices (Dhelmise, Mimikyu, Turtonator, Drampa, Bruxish, Oricorio, Oranguru, Passimian, Wishiwashi, Minior, Komala, and Comfey), or zero if single-stage Pokemon are excluded by virtue of possessing no pre-evolutions.

/or

 

[Dogfish44]

In, kindly.

 

[ZhengTann]

Despite the fact that I just posted an LoA, I am in to save the time for training an Alolan-Golem.

 

[Earth Traveler]

In

 

[TheBisharpKing]

In

 

[Mowtom]

In. And S0L1D G0LD I didn't see anyone answer you, so: you can always trade down if you'd rather the lower tier prize.

 

[Matezoide]

You fucking know i am in

 

[Glacier Knight]

^ what bae said

ARE YOU READY FOR THE NEXT NEXT ICE AGE

Tbh I just want that ice crab I love it

 

[JJayyFeather]

OMG MATE AND GLACE BABES <3 <3 <3

 

[Vanillish Wafer]

Absolutely in! I'm going to get that Guzzlord! Or more likely lose in the second round

(Just give me 24 hours to get my things in order)

 

[YellowAdminSilver]

If Pokemon become buffed or nerfed over the next few weeks, what will happen? Will they stay the way they are or be edited? Or are we renting new mons every round?

Yeah this seems like a valid point, so clarification would be much appreciated imo

Also, this point I already made to the hosts but it got a decent amount of support on irc so I guess I'll see what people think about it and bug acidphoenix some more.
Basically, given the fact that you get to use any item of your choice (effectively giving you all 18 memories at once), I'm worried about Silvally being kinda unhealthy (idk if that's the word). Using Silvally with all memories available at once gives you the opportunity to look at your opponent's team and counterteam after sendout which is bad imo. And yes, I know that you can do the same thing with Rotom and Oricorio, but Rotom is limited by the appliances that you buy and neither of those mons have 18 types available to them. Plus given that this tournament has a pool of like 40 available mons, teambuilding is limited enough as is without adding the possibility that your opponent can double up on a typing that you're weak to, for example, after seeing your team.

The proposal that got bounced around on irc was to keep access to all 18 memories, but having the player set Silvally's type when sending to the ref (AKA before seeing the opposing team). That way, you can keep the type versatility that makes Silvally worth using without the unfairness of being able to completely change your send-ins after seeing the opponent's. This got the support of a number of people on irc, including co-host Toon if I'm correct (let me know if I'm wrong).

Basically a number of ppl agree with me that having all 18 memories is stupid so come sign the petition or something idk

 

[cityscapes]

^^ If this goes through, should we make Memories unable to be Knocked Off? It would work like all other mons whose type/stats are changed by an item (Rotom, Arceus, Megas), and it would balance Silvally out pretty well considering the possible nerf.

The problem with Silvally isn't that it can counterteam, but that it can counter the mon(s) in front of it. If your opponent has two Pokémon weak to a single type left, you can literally just send Silvally out and win. Its movepool is kind of stupid too.

If the nerf happens, I doubt that Silvally will suddenly fall into the depths of obscurity, because its movepool sets it apart from other mons of the same type. In fact, I could see it being quite fun to use, because you can pick the perfect Silvally type to synergize with the rest of the team you're using.

Additionally, if this is implemented in the tournament, I think it should be implemented in other places as well because as I stated before, late-game Silvally basically has the power to beat whatever it wants. Even if you lost your Haxorus counter to bad playing, Silvally-Fairy can win you the damage race and the game. This is why I completely agree with the above proposal and think that it should be the precedent for how Silvally is treated in ASB.

 

[Toon]

Knock Off Description:

The Pokemon strikes at any item held by the opponent, knocking it away (The item's effect still occurs beforehand). The opponent loses all benefits of its held item. This move's effect will not activate if the target has the abilities Multitype, RKS System, or Sticky Hold, or is holding the item Griseous Orb, Shock Drive, Douse Drive, Chill Drive, Burn Drive, Red Orb, Blue Orb, any Mega Stone, or any Z-Crystal. This move's power ...

 

[Fort Colorcastle]

Yeah this seems like a valid point, so clarification would be much appreciated imo

Also, this point I already made to the hosts but it got a decent amount of support on irc so I guess I'll see what people think about it and bug acidphoenix some more.
Basically, given the fact that you get to use any item of your choice (effectively giving you all 18 memories at once), I'm worried about Silvally being kinda unhealthy (idk if that's the word). Using Silvally with all memories available at once gives you the opportunity to look at your opponent's team and counterteam after sendout which is bad imo. And yes, I know that you can do the same thing with Rotom and Oricorio, but Rotom is limited by the appliances that you buy and neither of those mons have 18 types available to them. Plus given that this tournament has a pool of like 40 available mons, teambuilding is limited enough as is without adding the possibility that your opponent can double up on a typing that you're weak to, for example, after seeing your team.

The proposal that got bounced around on irc was to keep access to all 18 memories, but having the player set Silvally's type when sending to the ref (AKA before seeing the opposing team). That way, you can keep the type versatility that makes Silvally worth using without the unfairness of being able to completely change your send-ins after seeing the opponent's. This got the support of a number of people on irc, including co-host Toon if I'm correct (let me know if I'm wrong).

Basically a number of ppl agree with me that having all 18 memories is stupid so come sign the petition or something idk

As much as I agree on the balance portion of this, it feels very inconsistent. imo either make all items be chosen when sending in to ref, or none imotbh.

 

[S0L1D G0LD]

Yeah this seems like a valid point, so clarification would be much appreciated imo

Also, this point I already made to the hosts but it got a decent amount of support on irc so I guess I'll see what people think about it and bug acidphoenix some more.
Basically, given the fact that you get to use any item of your choice (effectively giving you all 18 memories at once), I'm worried about Silvally being kinda unhealthy (idk if that's the word). Using Silvally with all memories available at once gives you the opportunity to look at your opponent's team and counterteam after sendout which is bad imo. And yes, I know that you can do the same thing with Rotom and Oricorio, but Rotom is limited by the appliances that you buy and neither of those mons have
18 types available to them. Plus given that this tournament has a pool of like 40 available mons, teambuilding is limited enough as is without adding the possibility that your opponent can double up on a typing that you're weak to, for example, after seeing your team.

The proposal that got bounced around on irc was to keep access to all 18 memories, but having the player set Silvally's type when sending to the ref (AKA before seeing the opposing team). That way, you can keep the type versatility that makes Silvally worth using without the unfairness of being able to completely change your send-ins after seeing the opponent's. This got the support of a number of people on irc, including co-host Toon if I'm correct (let me know if I'm wrong).

Basically a number of ppl agree with me that having all 18 memories is stupid so come sign the petition or something idk

Anyone remember my thoughts on this?

I strongly disagree with this idea. Silvally is a Pokemon that has enough offensive coverage (for anyone who missed it [DO NOT READ if you're avoiding spoilers like I {for the most part} am], nearly every single type's attack with <90 BP) and movepool goodies (Imprison, two forms of Self-Switching attacks, etc) to function just fine without this buff.

Although 100/3/3/3/3/95 (or more likely 100/4/3/3/2/95) isn't what it used to be, I see Silvally's low ranks as a balancing factor. Silvally is a Pokemon with quite frankly unprecedented versatility; It can be tailored to become any type you need for your team, and/or be used to patch up any poor matchup you have after seeing your opponent's lineup. This alone has no equivalent that we can use for guidelines.

Coupling the above points with the fact that Silvally will most likely be available to anyone and everyone (although hopefully after a TLR) makes this uncharted territory to say the least. Even alluding to a comparison with Arceus is completely ridiculous in my opinion, as Arceus will, realistically, never have more than one of its species in circulation, and is also likely to be banned from any serious type of fight. Even if I'm overestimating Silvally, I would still like to err on the side of caution with this decision.

However, as much as I dislike this Pokemon from a design standpoint, I don't believe that it should be completely forsaken. I do feel that its unboosted stats are enough, given the other parts of Silvally's whole, but if a buff is truely necessary, I'll throw my suggestion in for consideration. All that I feel should be done is an increase to Silvally's Attack by one rank, via RKS System, and if absolutely needed an increase to Special Attack as well. Silvally's other scores should be left to be decided upon after we see how this thing affects the metagame, in my opinion.

Although it is a bit of an angry rant, and the topic was about a rank boost, I do go over this issue on how it relates to a wider scale (...kinda). So, it's no surprise that I am in support of this proposal.

As much as I agree on the balance portion of this, it feels very inconsistent. imo either make all items be chosen when sending in to ref, or none imotbh.

Silvally is a special case, and should be treated as such. Ensuring proper balance should be prioritized far above consistency in all cases.

 

[Its_A_Random]

Silvally's fine in this meta. Besides, 3/3/3/3 balances out the ability to be any type.

That said, list of FE Pokémon legal in this tournament:

Sorted by Pokédex Order

Raticate-A
Raichu-A
Sandslash-A
Ninetales-A
Dugtrio-A
Persian-A
Golem-A
Muk-A
Exeggutor-A
Marowak-A
Decidueye
Incineroar
Primarina
Toucannon
Gumshoos
Vikavolt
Crabominable
Oricorio
Ribombee
Lycanroc-D/N
Wishiwashi
Toxapex
Mudsdale
Araquanid
Lurantis
Shiinotic
Salazzle
Bewear
Tsareena
Comfey
Oranguru
Passimian
Golisopod
Palossand
Pyukumuku
Silvally
Minior
Komala
Turtonator
Togedemaru
Mimikyu
Bruxish
Drampa
Dhelmise
Kommo-o

Sorted by Alphabetical Order

Araquanid
Bewear
Bruxish
Comfey
Crabominable
Decidueye
Dhelmise
Drampa
Dugtrio-A
Exeggutor-A
Golem-A
Golisopod
Gumshoos
Incineroar
Komala
Kommo-o
Lurantis
Lycanroc-D/N
Marowak-A
Mimikyu
Minior
Mudsdale
Muk-A
Ninetales-A
Oranguru
Oricorio
Palossand
Passimian
Persian-A
Primarina
Pyukumuku
Raichu-A
Raticate-A
Ribombee
Salazzle
Sandslash-A
Shiinotic
Silvally
Togedemaru
Toucannon
Toxapex
Tsareena
Turtonator
Vikavolt
Wishiwashi

46 Pokémon meta (including Lycanroc Formes) discounting NFE's.

 

[JJayyFeather]

Yeah this seems like a valid point, so clarification would be much appreciated imo

Also, this point I already made to the hosts but it got a decent amount of support on irc so I guess I'll see what people think about it and bug acidphoenix some more.
Basically, given the fact that you get to use any item of your choice (effectively giving you all 18 memories at once), I'm worried about Silvally being kinda unhealthy (idk if that's the word). Using Silvally with all memories available at once gives you the opportunity to look at your opponent's team and counterteam after sendout which is bad imo. And yes, I know that you can do the same thing with Rotom and Oricorio, but Rotom is limited by the appliances that you buy and neither of those mons have 18 types available to them. Plus given that this tournament has a pool of like 40 available mons, teambuilding is limited enough as is without adding the possibility that your opponent can double up on a typing that you're weak to, for example, after seeing your team.

The proposal that got bounced around on irc was to keep access to all 18 memories, but having the player set Silvally's type when sending to the ref (AKA before seeing the opposing team). That way, you can keep the type versatility that makes Silvally worth using without the unfairness of being able to completely change your send-ins after seeing the opponent's. This got the support of a number of people on irc, including co-host Toon if I'm correct (let me know if I'm wrong).

Basically a number of ppl agree with me that having all 18 memories is stupid so come sign the petition or something idk

I'm going to give this proposal a hard no on my behalf, because that's an absurdly ridiculous nerf to mon that really does not need it. It'd be the only mon in ASB that requires being pre-equipped, which is just asinine considering how valuable versatility is in ASB. If the goal of the tournament is get a reading on the strengths of the Pokemon from Gen 7, there is absolutely no reason to add such a change here unless the same change is implemented elsewhere, which I don't think will be added elsewhere. Like, I get the concern about it being a very easy way to win matchups, but that'd be a wildly inconsistent factor regarding not only how this tournament works, but how the mon would work in regular ASB.

To Gold's point: I personally don't give a damn about balance. This is a rather shitty gen as is outside of this 46 mon meta. Yes, 46. Like, most of these mons will cease to matter until the new game is released after this. At this point, I'd much rather get an idea of what mons are actually good, and what mons aren't. Balance is not a concern I have when we are balancing around quite honestly what I'd call mediocre pokemon.

 

[YellowAdminSilver]

Silvally's fine in this meta. Besides, 3/3/3/3 balances out the ability to be any type.

For what it's worth, I was under the impression that memories worked in the same way as plates, so 100/4/4/4/4/95 before nature. Judging by Goid's post, I assume that effect was originally proposed and then ditched? I mean, the original point I believe still has some merit with straight 3's but I do see it as less of a concern when compared to straight 4's.

 

[Elevator Music]

fine joining