Stall-breakers

Lee

@ Thick Club
is a Top Team Rater Alumnusis a Community Leader Alumnus
Recently, stall tactics have been creeping into the metagame. Then, with Obi's RMT, there was a huge boom of stall teams which used precise team selection, spikes and weather to wear down the opposing team whilst taking minimal damage themselves.

Last generation, Tyraniboah was created to help counter stall teams. ChainChomp was also created with the intention of defeating his common counters to open up a sweep.

But my question in this thread is, is there a particular Pokemon that you use to counter stall teams? Maybe it's Tyraniboah, and if so, feel free to share your experience on that. But if you use anything else, please share the moveset and explain to us. They're generally mixed attackers with types of moves that defeat common walls. It is important that they are able to bypass certain walls as well as the bulky attacker type Pokemon that also populate stall teams.

And I'm sure we can all agree that breaking a link in a stall team and opening up a sweep is the Pokemon equivalent of an orgasm.

To get the ball rolling, here's the Pokemon that I use as a stall-breaker. I've already posted this in Obi's RMT, so sorry to those who have already seen it.

Sharpedo @ Expert Belt/Choice Scarf
Lonely Nature (-Def + Att)
172 Atk / 176 Spd / 160 SpA
- Earthquake
- Crunch
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam

Yeah, Sharpedo. Some may put it down as gimmicky or whatever, but I'm the kind of player who likes to use OU-capable UU Pokemon. The given EV's generate 350 Attack, 266 Special Attack, and 270 speed (or 405 with Scarf).

The following calculations are made using the EV's given by Obi for his team.

Hydro Pump vs Hippowdon: Damage: 104.05% - 122.38%

Hydro Pump vs Skarmory: Damage: 55.69% - 65.57%

Earthquake vs Tentacruel: Damage: 84.89% - 100.00%

Crunch vs Blissey: Damage: 39.17% - 45.93%

Crunch vs Celebi: Damage: 57.18% - 67.08
Ice Beam vs Celebi: Damage: 45.79% - 53.96%

Hydro Pump vs Spiritomb: Damage: 35.86% - 42.43%
Crunch vs Spiritomb: Damage: 36.51% - 42.76%

The calculations are appealing for the mostpart. Sharpedo outspeeds everything in the squad, regardless of Scarf. He OHKO's Hippowdon and Tentacruel and scores easy 2HKO's on Celebi and Skarmory. Blissey and Spiritomb are 3HKO'd, but if they have prior damage, they will not be able to switch in at all, for fear of being 2HKO'd. Life Orb could be used to hit everything a lot harder, but due to the nature of Obi's squad, I would not reccomend it.

Of course though...it is Sharpedo. That means he will struggle to switch in. He has a Lonely nature to preserve what Sp Def he has. He can switch in on a predicted Ice Fang, Surf, Flamethrower, Shadow Ball or any non-damaging move. Sub-passing will also get him in, and he makes a great revenge killer.

Obviously, he isn't perfect for the job by any means. But I have had a lot of success with this guy against stall orientated teams (note: he can also 2HKO's Cresselia and Dusknoir too), and thought that sharing it might encourage other people to show a little love for some UU Pokemon. For breaking such a perfectly-made team down, he's pretty close to as good as it gets. Just like Tentacruel, Sharpedo is capable of filling a certain niche in the OU metagame...just don't expect miracles unless you have great prediction.
Additional damage calculations:

Crunch against Max HP/Max Def Bold Cresselia: Damage: 44.82% - 52.70%

Not as much as I'd hoped for, but additional Attack EV's could be used. Can still 2HKO in a Sandstorm, and with SR support will almost certainly 2HKO.

Crunch against Max HP/Max Def Impish Dusknoir: Damage: 62.24% - 73.13%

Easy. It's worth noting that it is rare that Dusknoir runs absolute Max Defence too.

Earthquake on Max HP Tyranitar: Damage: 58.91% - 69.31%
Hydro Pump on Max HP Tyranitar in SS: Damage: 87.38% - 102.72%

Earthquake on Max HP Metagross: Damage: 56.59% - 66.48%

_______

Whilst my example is of the mixed attacker variety, there are other breeds of stall-breaker. Does anyone else have any sets to share? :heart:
 
Infernape is the most Obvious "Stall/Wall" breaker of this gen. I find the use of McGar more appealing to me though, since Explosion inflicts such severe damage to teams when used with proper prediction.
 
I use:
Metagross @ Expert Belt / Life Orb
Naughty 244 Atk 12 Spd 252 SpA
HP Fire
Grass Knot
Meteor Mash
Earthquake

I surprise kill a Forry ~1 every 3 battles with this. It really dents Hippos, Skarms, Donphans, and Swamperts too.

Also Clefable is a great stall-breaker because it's immune to SS/SR/Spikes/Poison.
 
Just a note, if you go with 176 Attack EVs, you get an Attack stat of 352. It's two more points for just another 4 EVs, dunno if you'll want to change that, but I noticed it when I was using your Sharpedo as a base.
 

Lee

@ Thick Club
is a Top Team Rater Alumnusis a Community Leader Alumnus
I use:
Metagross @ Expert Belt / Life Orb
Naughty 244 Atk 12 Spd 252 SpA
HP Fire
Grass Knot
Meteor Mash
Earthquake

I surprise kill a Forry ~1 every 3 battles with this. It really dents Hippos, Skarms, Donphans, and Swamperts too.

Also Clefable is a great stall-breaker because it's immune to SS/SR/Spikes/Poison.
Ha, I like that one actually. HP Fire is also his best attack against Bronzong, I guess. Like Clefable, Metagross is immune to SS and Toxic Spikes, and takes minimal damage from SR. It's not gimmicky either - that Metagross has a respectable 289 SpAtk, whilst still having 403 attack to play with. Gliscor will cause problems, unless you Grass Knot whilsts he Roosts (that would be great!).

And I definatley wouldn't reccomend a Life Orb on a Pokemon designed to wear down walls. Whilst the added power is great, it justs helps the opposition in their quest to stall you to death.

EDIT: Thanks Flames of Malice, I'll look into that. The EV's were initially intended for a Choice Scarfer, so the numbers 270 and 266 had special importance (i.e outrunning Scarfcross and OHKOing Garchomp). They could be reassessed with the use of Expert Belt. 265 SpAtk and 352 attack sounds better to me. :)
 

Lee

@ Thick Club
is a Top Team Rater Alumnusis a Community Leader Alumnus
Yes Toshi, everytime Sharpedo is hit with an attack that makes contact the opponent suffers 1/16th of his max health.

He doesn't have the bulk to abuse it, but it has always been used as a desperation counter to Reversal/Flail. It can have nice little bonuses such as switching into a Hippowdon Ice Fang/Dusknoir Shadow Sneak and inflicting a little damage, but it's not the kind of ability you have in mind whilst playing. Just take the advantages as they come.
 
Yes Toshi, everytime Sharpedo is hit with an attack that makes contact the opponent suffers 1/16th of his max health.

He doesn't have the bulk to abuse it, but it has always been used as a desperation counter to Reversal/Flail. It can have nice little bonuses such as switching into a Hippowdon Ice Fang/Dusknoir Shadow Sneak and inflicting a little damage, but it's not the kind of ability you have in mind whilst playing. Just take the advantages as they come.
http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=21511

Actually, it's 1/8 now. See for yourself. That doesn't change much of anything, though.

I would usually default to MixApe as a stall-breaker, but cmg's Metagross set looks more and more appealing.
 
Rules: Ladder Match, Sleep Clause, Freeze Clause, OHKO Clause, Evasion Clause, Species Clause, Strict Damage Clause
Articanus.exe sent out Zapdos (lvl 100 Zapdos).
Blaze17 sent out Aerodactyl (lvl 100 Aerodactyl ?).
Zapdos is exerting its pressure!
Aerodactyl is exerting its pressure!
Zapdos used Thunderbolt.
It's super effective!
Aerodactyl lost 100% of its health.
Aerodactyl hung on using its Focus Sash!
Aerodactyl used Rock Slide.
It's super effective!
Zapdos lost 89% of its health.
---
Zapdos used Thunderbolt.
It's super effective!
Aerodactyl lost 0% of its health.
Blaze17's Aerodactyl fainted.
---
Blaze17 switched in Arcanine (lvl 100 Arcanine ?).
Arcanine's intimidate cut Zapdos's attack!
Arcanine used Extremespeed.
Zapdos lost 11% of its health.
Articanus.exe's Zapdos fainted.
---
Blaze17: u there?
Articanus.exe switched in Gyarados (lvl 100 Gyarados ?).
Gyarados's intimidate cut Arcanine's attack!
Articanus.exe: sorry
Articanus.exe: @_@
Blaze17: oh well....now anyways
Arcanine used Dragon Pulse.
Gyarados lost 26% of its health.
Gyarados used Waterfall.
It's super effective!
Arcanine lost 100% of its health.
Arcanine hung on using its Focus Sash!
Gyarados's leftovers restored its health a little!
Gyarados restored 6% of its health.
---
Arcanine used Dragon Pulse.
A critical hit!
Gyarados lost 50% of its health.
Gyarados used Dragon Dance.
Gyarados's attack was raised.
Gyarados's speed was raised.
Gyarados's leftovers restored its health a little!
Gyarados restored 6% of its health.
---
Arcanine used Extremespeed.
Gyarados lost 13% of its health.
Gyarados used Waterfall.
It's super effective!
Arcanine lost 0% of its health.
Blaze17's Arcanine fainted.
Gyarados's leftovers restored its health a little!
Gyarados restored 6% of its health.
---
Blaze17 switched in Scizor (lvl 100 Scizor ?).
Gyarados used Waterfall.
Scizor lost 69% of its health.
Scizor used Swords Dance.
Scizor's attack was sharply raised.
Gyarados's leftovers restored its health a little!
Gyarados restored 6% of its health.
---
Articanus.exe switched in Swampert (lvl 100 Swampert ?).
Scizor used Bullet Punch.
It's not very effective...
Swampert lost 27% of its health.
Scizor lost 10% of its health.
Swampert's leftovers restored its health a little!
Swampert restored 6% of its health.
---
Articanus.exe switched in Gyarados (lvl 100 Gyarados ?).
Gyarados's intimidate cut Scizor's attack!
Scizor used X-Scissor.
It's not very effective...
Gyarados lost 36% of its health.
Articanus.exe's Gyarados fainted.
Scizor lost 10% of its health.
---
Articanus.exe switched in Lucario (lvl 100 Lucario ?).
Scizor used Bullet Punch.
It's not very effective...
Lucario lost 34% of its health.
Scizor lost 10% of its health.
Lucario used Close Combat.
Scizor lost 1% of its health.
Blaze17's Scizor fainted.
Lucario's defence was lowered.
Lucario's special defence was lowered.
Lucario's leftovers restored its health a little!
Lucario restored 6% of its health.
---
Blaze17 switched in Gyarados (lvl 100 Gyarados ?).
Gyarados's intimidate cut Lucario's attack!
Articanus.exe switched in Swampert (lvl 100 Swampert ?).
Gyarados used Dragon Dance.
Gyarados's attack was raised.
Gyarados's speed was raised.
Swampert's leftovers restored its health a little!
Swampert restored 6% of its health.
---
Gyarados used Waterfall.
Swampert lost 52% of its health.
Gyarados lost 10% of its health.
Swampert used Roar.
Blaze17 switched in Salamence (lvl 100 Salamence ?).
Salamence's intimidate cut Swampert's attack!
Swampert's leftovers restored its health a little!
Swampert restored 6% of its health.
---
Salamence used Outrage.
Salamence went on a rampage!
Swampert lost 40% of its health.
Articanus.exe's Swampert fainted.
---
Articanus.exe switched in Lucario (lvl 100 Lucario ?).
Salamence used Outrage.
It's not very effective...
Lucario lost 40% of its health.
Lucario used Close Combat.
It's not very effective...
Salamence lost 30% of its health.
Lucario's defence was lowered.
Lucario's special defence was lowered.
Lucario's leftovers restored its health a little!
Lucario restored 6% of its health.
---
Lucario used Extremespeed.
Salamence lost 27% of its health.
Salamence used Outrage.
It's not very effective...
Lucario lost 39% of its health.
Articanus.exe's Lucario fainted.
Salamence's rampage ended.
Salamence became confused!
---
Articanus.exe switched in Togekiss (lvl 100 Togekiss ?).
Salamence is confused!
It hurt itself in its confusion!
Salamence lost 17% of its health.
Togekiss used Thunder Wave.
Salamence is paralysed! It may be unable to move!
---
Togekiss used Air Slash.
Salamence lost 27% of its health.
Blaze17's Salamence fainted.
---
Blaze17 switched in Togekiss (lvl 100 Togekiss ?).
Togekiss used Air Slash.
Togekiss lost 25% of its health.
Togekiss flinched!
Togekiss's leftovers restored its health a little!
Togekiss restored 6% of its health.
---
Togekiss used Air Slash.
Togekiss's attack missed!
Togekiss used Thunder Wave.
Togekiss is paralysed! It may be unable to move!
Togekiss's leftovers restored its health a little!
Togekiss restored 6% of its health.
---
Togekiss used Air Slash.
Togekiss lost 32% of its health.
Togekiss flinched!
Togekiss's leftovers restored its health a little!
Togekiss restored 6% of its health.
---
Togekiss used Air Slash.
Togekiss lost 32% of its health.
Togekiss flinched!
Togekiss's leftovers restored its health a little!
Togekiss restored 6% of its health.
---
Togekiss used Air Slash.
Togekiss lost 30% of its health.
Togekiss used Tri Attack.
Togekiss lost 24% of its health.
Togekiss's leftovers restored its health a little!
Togekiss restored 6% of its health.
---
Togekiss used Extremespeed.
Togekiss lost 12% of its health.
Togekiss used Air Slash.
Togekiss lost 6% of its health.
Blaze17's Togekiss fainted.
Togekiss's leftovers restored its health a little!
Togekiss restored 6% of its health.
---
Blaze17 switched in Gyarados (lvl 100 Gyarados ?).
Gyarados's intimidate cut Togekiss's attack!
Gyarados used Ice Fang.
It's super effective!
Togekiss lost 47% of its health.
Gyarados lost 10% of its health.
Togekiss used Thunder Wave.
Gyarados is paralysed! It may be unable to move!
Togekiss's leftovers restored its health a little!
Togekiss restored 6% of its health.
---
Togekiss used Roost.
Togekiss restored 50% of its health.
Gyarados used Dragon Dance.
Gyarados's attack was raised.
Gyarados's speed was raised.
Togekiss's leftovers restored its health a little!
Togekiss restored 6% of its health.
---
Togekiss used Air Slash.
Gyarados lost 31% of its health.
Gyarados flinched!
Togekiss's leftovers restored its health a little!
Togekiss restored 6% of its health.
---
Togekiss used Air Slash.
Gyarados lost 29% of its health.
Gyarados flinched!
Togekiss's leftovers restored its health a little!
Togekiss restored 3% of its health.
---
Blaze17: damn serene grace
Togekiss used Air Slash.
Gyarados lost 20% of its health.
Blaze17's Gyarados fainted.
Articanus.exe wins!
Articanus.exe: gg
Blaze17: gg
Blaze17 has left the room.
 

chimpact

fire nation
is a Team Rater Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Champion
I dont really use just one pokemon I use Yanmega/Weavile. They can easily both beat Cresselia. Weavile can stop some physical walls like Donphan/Hippo and same with Yanmega against Cresselia. They are both fast and I give Yanmega HP Fire to stop Skarmory.
 

Bologo

Have fun with birds and bees.
is a Contributor Alumnus
This may sound extremely moronic, but I use Bibarel. My exact moveset is something like this usually:

Bibarel @Leftovers
EVs: 212 hp/4 atk/180 spd/52 def/52 sdef
Jolly Nature (+spd, -satk)
Ability: Unaware

- Return
- Yawn
- Waterfall
- Super Fang

I'm sure you've seen me post my Bibarel's moveset many times, but honestly, even without Unaware implimented yet, this thing counters a lot of the stallers. It can take quite a bit of hits with the EVs, since Bibarel does have good HP.

Cresselia without Charge Beam gets countered pretty easily, because it either gets put to sleep or gets health sliced off in pies and it's forced to recover, switch or keep taking assaults until it eventually succumbs.

Blissey can't do a damn thing to the guy unless it carries Thunderbolt. Even then, once Unaware is there, Thunderbolt still won't do a huge amount due to Blissey's low special attack and no STAB. Resists Ice Beam, has lots of HP, and Super Fangs with Blissey now in the same situation as Cresselia.

That annoying Walrein is Yawned before it can sub, and then it either has to switch, or stay sleeping and get its sub broken by a super fang, and then get super fanged more times until it succumbs. Although I'll admit, Toxic Spikes can be pretty annoying.

Ghosts like Dusknoir are a little annoying for Bibarel, being immune to Super Fang and all, but it'll still get Yawned and be forced to switch unless it's a sleep talker.

Heh, and those are without Unaware, just think of the possibilities with it! I love this beaver. The bulkiest super fanger there and abilities that so many other pokemon would kill for. Not to mention one of the best offensive types in the game. :]

EDIT: Fixed up my EVs.
 

Lee

@ Thick Club
is a Top Team Rater Alumnusis a Community Leader Alumnus
I knew Bologo would post something unique!

With all that Yawning and health slicing, some SR/Spikes support would go down really well. Just checked over the EV's though, and 243 speed seems like a lot of speed for a Bibarel with such a set. That number suggests to me that you're trying to outspeed Breloom (239), but even that seems pointless since you can't do a great deal back to Breloom, other than force him away with Yawn (in which case you're still gonna end up asleep or dead).

I know you're a smart player, so is there some reasoning I've overlooked? It seems to me that you may as well just sit at 227 just above Gliscor/T-tar/Gyara. That gives more EVs/nature to bolster defences or attack power.

It's sad, but I'm actually curious. ^_^
 

Bologo

Have fun with birds and bees.
is a Contributor Alumnus
I knew Bologo would post something unique!

With all that Yawning and health slicing, some SR/Spikes support would go down really well. Just checked over the EV's though, and 243 speed seems like a lot of speed for a Bibarel with such a set. That number suggests to me that you're trying to outspeed Breloom (239), but even that seems pointless since you can't do a great deal back to Breloom, other than force him away with Yawn (in which case you're still gonna end up asleep or dead).

I know you're a smart player, so is there some reasoning I've overlooked? It seems to me that you may as well just sit at 227 just above Gliscor/T-tar/Gyara. That gives more EVs/nature to bolster defences or attack power.

It's sad, but I'm actually curious. ^_^
Hmm...well I seem to have created a bit of a folly in my EVs. I actually have 52 EVs in both defenses and 180 EVs in speed so that it gets 245 speed to beat out Dragon Dancing Gyarados before it dances. Heh, thanks for pointing out the boo-boo.

Bibarel is a damn good Gyarados counter since it doesn't take much from Ice Fang with a resistance, resists Waterfall, can Super Fang through taunt and then Gyarados will get Yawned. In addition, if it got Encored from something such as Raichu or Jumpluff who can Protect and then Encore, then Gyarados will be out there trying to dragon dance and then the beaver can come out and Gyarados's Dances will only be powering up speed and not attack thanks to Unaware.

I'm not completely set in stone on the EVs though. Do you think I should just try to outspeed the bulky version of Gyarados since it'll probably dragon dance on the switch to Bibarel anyway? Or should I keep them the way they are?
 
How do you break a stall? By stalling yourself! Honestly, nothings worse then stalling alongside with the opponent, the match takes even longer lol
 
Lucario seems like a really great Stall Breaker. He has a SR 4x resist, Sandstorm immunity, and TSpikes immunity, and because of his Special Fighting STAB he can mess up Special walls pretty well. Calm Mind Life Orb/Expert Belt Lucario, although unorthodox, sounds like it could be really cool against a Stall team, since you get to switch attacks and also capitolize on Lucario's unpredictability

Calm Minded LOed Aura Sphere does 90% - 106% to Hippowdon, so pretty much an OHKO with any previous damage, always easily 2HKOs Blissey, OHKOs Skarm / Forry, and most things that don't resist Fighting / have titanic Special defense.

CMed LOed / Expert Belt Dark Pulse is a definite 2HKO on 252 HP / 0 Sp. Def Bold Cresselia, and is a possible 2HKO on Max / Max Calm, guaranteed with SR and SS, always 2HKOs Celebi,

CMed LO / EB Psychic always 2HKOs Tentacruel if he is a problem, but doesn't grant much coverage otherwise, so you might want HP Ice for the OHKO on Gliscor, Garchomp and other Ice weak pokemon, or maybe even substitute, because many pokemon like Cresselia, Forry with Gyro Ball, and Celebi, often won't be able to break his subsitutes because of his cool typing

Spiritomb is the one of the few problme spots I can see, (besides like a defensive Zapdos). CM LO Dark Pulse does ~38 - 45% to max / max, but Spiritomb can't do much back outside of HP Fighting, and can't repeatedly take that 45% with painsplit or Rest/Talk as his only form of recovery.

So maybe Life Orb isn't so great since you can easily be stalled to death, but Expert belt works just as well in every situtation except pretty much Hippowdon / Spirutomb, so if you have Wish support it may be worth it. A Special Lucario that can change attacks seems like it can really mess up Stall teams that don't carry anything faster. If you save Lucario until you know you're opponents team somewhat, and have managed to get their Spiritomb to a decently low health or it lacks HP Fighting, you can usually get a CM on a switch and straight up sweep them, The same applies to Nasty Plot Toxicroak too I guess, to a bit of a lesser extent, and possibly NPTogekiss but not so much without the STAb and with the SR / SS weakness, although I guess it does have Roost / Wish
 

Stallion

Tree Young
is a Tiering Contributoris a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnusis a Three-Time Past WCoP Champion
http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=29143

My thread with the exact same topic from about a month ago. You can use that to get ideas. CBTyranitar, Mixed Infernape and SpecsLucario seem to work great at breaking stall, as well as moves such as Substitute, Torment and Taunt. Also, Stat upping seems to beat most stall teams, although there are quite a few that pack phazers to be prepared for that.
 
You don't have to use one Poke you now...Just because a certain team doesn't seem to have an obvious Poke weak, doesn't mean it's unbeatable. It always depends on situations in game...such as if one of the Stall Teams Poke kills something and that leaves it open for a free switch to something else to set up.

I have pretty mcuh described a "normal battle" as the counter to a stall team. And in fact, it is.
 
tyraniboah breaks walls with ease. mixape does obviously, and so does anything carrying toxic(as long as you're not facing a steel/poison/immunity foe)
 

Lee

@ Thick Club
is a Top Team Rater Alumnusis a Community Leader Alumnus
@danyul1023, I really like the sounds of that set. Calm Mind/Sub/Aura Sphere/Shadow Ball. It sounds like a great Cresselia counter, and it has great coverage too (resisted by nothing). I don't normally use OU Pokes, but I'm tempted to try that one out.

@Bologo, I find that Gyarados users have a worrying tendency to just hit Dragon Dance straight away, no matter the situation. I wouldn't worry too much about outspeeding them, as it's rare Bibarel will be one-on-one with them in a situation where he hasn't already had a speed boost. Those EV's cold go better elsewhere IMO, because 206 Attk, 170 Def and 170 Sp Def isn't exactly great. I think that in countering Gyarados, Defence has more value than Speed. Just an opinion though, I have no experience with Bibarel.

I've also been thinking that Dugtrio could be excellent at breaking stall. Stall teams are in danger of being exposed if one of the links is taking out, so if Dugtrio were to trap and kill an integral Pokemon, then a weakness could open up.
 
Anything with Explosion tends to be an excellent stallbreaker. Usually it will rip a hole in stall teams which you can then proceed to exploit with your other pokes.

It also has the distinct plus side of allowing you to use LO quite safely. E.g. Metagross with Meteor Mash/Grass Knot/HP Fire/Explosion, brave, EV'd to outspeed and OHKO relaxed Swampert with the rest in attack. Can't switch into ground types but has an easy time coming in on Cress/Blissey, annihilates any trying to come in, and has a boom that does like 75+% to Skarm and usually OHKOs Bronzong.
 
tyraniboah breaks walls with ease.
I'm not sure about Boah. A stall team usually runs walls that support each other. If Boah does not have T-Bolt, then Skarmory is a problem - Hippowdon/Ground Types if he lacks Ice Beam. Calm Mind Cresselia is also troublesome and so is Encore Shuckle.
 

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