Forming UU team, Please help!!!

[ToxicPhox]

Well, i need a hand with something here;

You know pokemon like Garchomp? Wevile? Tyranitar? sure they're awesome and powerful, but you see them everywhere! Its not like im complaining, but i want to be like "oh, you use them? Ha, i make it in battles with a Tentacruel!" (which i actually do, i have an all-poison team as my main at the moment)

I like to use UU pokemon, the diverse, obscure pokemon that are hard to predict in a team. What i want to try to make is a Team of UU and BL pokemon that can battle in the OU tier. But since i don't really know who is UU, who is NU, and some of who is OU, i cant realy put it together Y_Y

So i humbly ask the wise goers of the smogon community for some advice; Team setups, pokemon to use, movesets, EV spreads, anything to help me get this dream realised. I'm counting on you, please don't let me down! ^_^

 

[Pneuma]

Its not like im complaining, but

But you are complaining.
The truth is that you either have to use low tiers and love them or you need to make up your mind about playing competitive games.

There are many here (myself included) who are masochistic enough to find sets for UU pokemon that are viable in OU. More importantly though, the best sets are already written down and the mechanics are already worked out and it's your own mind that will find the little tricks that allow UU to be successful.

 

[Lee]

What i want to try to make is a Team of UU pokemon that can battle in the OU tier.

If you're gonna field a UU team in OU, the trick is to be able to accept the barrage of defeats that will come your way. It doesn't matter how good you are, chances are that against an able opponent, the odds are heavily stacked against you.

Players like myself and especially bologo play with UU (or in his case NU) teams and it can be very frustrating, but also very satisfying. Below is a *rough list* of UU, as defined in the Tier Discussion thread.

Absol
Aggron
Altaria
Ampharos
Armaldo
Banette
Bastiodon
Bellossom
Bibarel
Blastoise
Butterfree
Cacturne
Camerupt
Carnivine
Castform
Chatot
Cherrim
Clamperl
Clefable
Cradily
Crawdaunt
Drifblim
Dunsparce
Electrode
Fearow
Froslass
Gastrodon
Girafarig
Glaceon
Golduck
Golem
Gorebyss
Granbull
Grumpig
Hitmonchan
Hitmonlee
Hitmontop
Huntail
Hypno
Kabutops
Kangaskhan
Kingler
Lanturn
Lapras
Linoone
Lopunny
Lunatone
Luxray
Manetric
Mantine
Meganium
Mightyena
Muk
Nidoking
Nidoqueen
Noctowl
Octillery
Omastar
Persian
Pelipper
Pidgeot
Pikachu
Pinsir
Politoed
Primeape
Probopass
Quagsire
Qwilfish
Raichu
Rapidash
Raticate
Relicanth
Regigigas
Rotom
Sableye
Sandslash
Seviper
Sharpedo
Shiftry
Shuckle
Skuntank
Slowking
Solrock
Stantler
Sudowoodo
Sunflora
Swalot
Swellow
Torkoal
Toxicroak
Trapinch
Venomoth
Vespiquen
Victreebel
Vileplume
Wailord
Walrein
Whiscash
Wigglytuff
Xatu

They're your choices, have fun.

EDIT:

"oh, you use them? Ha, i make it in battles with a Tentacruel!"

I lolled at this part, because it would appear that Tentacruel is now an OU (and if not, he will be very soon at this rate).

 

[Bologo]

If you want any help in making a team with lesser used pokemon, first off, listen to Lee's advice in being ready to accept a barrage of defeats. Not just because they are crappier than the standard pokemon, but they take MUCH better prediction to use.

The good thing about this, however, is that it makes you a much better player as well. If I were to start using a completely standard team, I would probably be getting 5x the wins I get now since I have much experience with prediction and creative moveset making that it would be quite a breeze.

I'd recommend trying Clefable for starters though. It's a great pokemon if you're someone who wants to start and get creative with your movesets and EV spreads, plus prediction, simply because it has such a wide movepool and an incredibly high amount of viable sets.

It's all up to you which pokemon you actually want to use though.

 

[ToxicPhox]

Damn...right after i posted this i learned about the BL tier...

well...i officially feel like a dumb little kid now. Yes, I'm aware that most UU pokemon suck. Its really just a novelty team I'm working on. Im looking for that rush you get from beating OUs with UUs and BLs, and I dont mind how many times I'm obviously gona loose.

if not UU, then BL pokemon advice? anyone?

and thx for the list Lee

 

[Bologo]

If you would like any help on making a team of lesser used pokemon that can compete in standards, with BLs in it and such as well, then feel free to PM me, and I can help you out with that. I like passing on my creativity to others, don't worry. :]

Contrary to popular belief, pretty much ALL pokemon have a niche that only they can do, or that is special only to them. Even Luvdisc does for goodness sakes, not that I would ever want to use it.

Remember, everything can work with decent prediction. It all depends on your experience.

For instance, something like Pelipper may look like it sucks, but with the right EV spread, it can be a great counter to both Garchomp, Gyarados and Gliscor. You can EV Pelipper so that it can take under 50% from their attacks, since they don't always carry Stone Edge, and you can Ice Beam them back to hell. See, that's an example of how you can take a pokemon such as Pelipper, who is inevitably going to be NU and make it work in OU.

 

[Lee]

Well, as a start, I'd say that Muk makes the best UU special wall in the OU environment. Hypno and Grumpig can't get through Gengar, Yanmega etc. However, as he has a Psychic weak, back him up with a Dark Pokemon to take the hits for him. I use Sharpedo, but Absol and Crawdaunt are always options too.

Blastoise makes the best physical wall too IMO, as the others take way too much from Earthquake. Quagsire would be the better (only) option for countering Gyarados though...a word of warning - Gyara rips through UU teams like it's not even funny.

From there, you've got two solid tanks, and I guess it's just about using your favourites now. That's what UU's about really, isn't it?

And I wouldn't say UU Pokemon suck...they just require a little more effort. Sure, Tyranitar rips through a squad with ease, but it's much harder to set up a Golem sweep. It's worth it though. ^.^

 

[ToxicPhox]

Thank you Bologo, your awesome. and you too Lee

One of my favorites has alway been Toxicroak; i have a jolly one now that I use. Though i kinda think its a pity that hes in UU, must be that x4 psychic weakness...though a fast one with sucker punch is always handy ^^

*goes off to discuss Toxicroak*

 

[Pneuma]

What Bologo said about niches is important information to take in. Toxicroak can be very useful with a mixed set, a choice set (that loves to eat Toxic Spikes), a revenge set with Sucker Punch of course.

Just pick some pokemon that interest you, find their tricks, and exploit them. Or find holes in opponent's teams that UU pokemon can likewise exploit.

 

[Fishin]

Contrary to popular belief, pretty much ALL pokemon have a niche that only they can do, or that is special only to them. Even Luvdisc does for goodness sakes, not that I would ever want to use it.

It does? Seriously? I thought you stated awhile ago that every pokemon except Luvdisc had a niche (don't quote me on that, my memory sucks).

...What is it?

Well, as a start, I'd say that Muk makes the best UU special wall in the OU environment.

Don't forget about Nidoqueen/king, who has some merit as a Heracross counter (resists Close Combat/Megahorn/Stone Edge). Poison types usually can counter physically based pokemon that use primarily fighting attacks well, since though those physical pokemon usually have access to Earthquake, some of them won't be using it due to the scarcity of non-flying poison types in standard. Take advantage of things like the fact that OU pokemon are designed to counter other OU pokemon.

 

[Bologo]

It does? Seriously? I thought you stated awhile ago that every pokemon except Luvdisc had a niche (don't quote me on that, my memory sucks).

...What is it?

Ohh, haha, I edited in that post before after I did in fact find a niche for it.

Luvdisc's niche is the fastest Aqua Ring in the game at 97 base speed.

 

[ToxicPhox]

Don't forget about Nidoqueen/king, who has some merit as a Heracross counter (resists Close Combat/Megahorn/Stone Edge). Poison types usually can counter physically based pokemon that use primarily fighting attacks well, since though those physical pokemon usually have access to Earthquake, some of them won't be using it due to the scarcity of non-flying poison types in standard. Take advantage of things like the fact that OU pokemon are designed to counter other OU pokemon.

also he/she has attacks like Aerial Ace, though that would be another poison type, leaving my team open for the common phychic moves. And ya, im gona take the 'niche' advice to heart; thats one of the reasons i like UU-BL, they get the jump on people who are looking for (and have teams specalised to fight) other OU. Plus i like to give some love to the UU pokemon ^_^

and lol,luvdisk is kinda totaly useless...

 

[ODDish]

also he/she has attacks like Aerial Ace, though that would be another poison type, leaving my team open for the common phychic moves.

Psychic type attacks are much less frequent in OU, in comparison to UU, and are in any case easily remedied by a dark type.

One UU pokemon that I've had a great deal of success using in OU battles is Rotom STAB Shadow Ball/Thunderbolt, Trick, Will-o-Wisp, Thunder Wave ... it can really frustrate your opponent

Although Leafeon's status in UU is still being debated, it is one of the least used BLs but is a great switch into Hippowdon, Donphan and even TTar (assuming its not packing a SE special attack).

Dragon Dance Lapras is a monster if you can set it up ... also look into Cacturne/Sandlash/Shuckle as they can really abuse the oh so common Sand Stream teams.

 

[Bologo]

Yeah, Rotom is awesome in OU. It has a huge amount of resists...8 or 9 I think, with 3 of them being immunities. It forces switches like a champ because of those things and can status things left and right as they switch in. Plus trick is a fuck to deal with (although I'm usually the one using trick so it's fun :D).

Once Unaware gets implimented on Shoddybattle, I'd definitely recommend Bibarel, because with the right EV spread, that thing counters a whole lot of pokemon in OU that it's not even funny, trust me. It's hard to find something that can just bust Cresselia after its Calm Minded up, but Bibarel does the job perfectly fine provided that it has Unaware. Then there's Simple, Bibarel is one of the best recipients for baton passing chains since it requires the least set-up to pass to and can be done multiple times.

Heh, to tell you the truth, I've even used Chatot before. One of the fastest Encores in the game plus Nasty Plot is awesome. Just come in on an Earthquake, Encore it so they're using a move that's not able to do anything, Nasty Plot on the switch, send the enemy to heck, although Chatot was a lot more threatening before they found out Chatter's ACTUAL confusion rate. :(

 

[Jumpman16]

Normally I'd lock this thread, as at the surface you're asking for team-building help (in the wrong forum) which is against the rules, but perhaps this is something that others like you can learn from. Next time, though, don't be so quick to post without reading our announcements and stickied topics, as we have worked very, very hard on them just for new people like you.

And for what it's worth, from what little bit of this thread I've skimmed, Tentacruel is actually OU now as of October (on over 5% of teams), and Shuckle is probably a better special wall than Muk in the OU environment, since it would — being a niche pokemon that needs all the support it can get — have the Sand Stream it thrives with from the OU Tyranitar and Hippowdon.

 

[Lee]

Yeah, Shuckle works, but if your opponent doesn't bring a Sand Stream into play he won't look quite so appealing anymore. He won't be able to go toe-to-toe with Starmie which is quite crippling for your team. Muk does a great job of it on the other hand...infact Starmie doesn't even break his Subs unless it's the rare Psychic version.

Also, I'll second (third?) Shiny Oddish and Bologo's praise for Rotom. Very effective, and great fun to use.

 

[Magicenforcer]

i play a NU/UU team, and one piece of add Reflect/Light screen. these two moves are THE most helpful, to me at least

 

[Forsety]

There are many here (myself included) who are masochistic enough to find sets for UU pokemon that are viable in OU.

Oh thanks, now I'm a masochist ._.

Important thing I'd say is if you plan on creating a non-standard team which works in the regular standard environment. KNOW what your favourite is and its niche. Reason I say this is team building in this area is much trickier as you have to cover for each others weaknesses more and more so when you use things you dislike.

In the case of Toxicroak if you really do like it than thats a good start. Toxicroak in its own right is an extremely strong and versatile UU that operates well at all levels in multiple styles. What I'd normally do is start building around the favourite, in this case fire/psychic/ground/flying weaknesses, while making sure each of those have a different role. What Toxicroak does can actually come last since you'll be using it anyway.

Next is at the very least list 3-4 of your other favourites choose the msot competant and thats half your team already. What that results in is that the final 3 becomes a matter of balancing your existing team, I'd actually do that first before you continue on.

If you really aren't as familiar with the game you will need to ask for help and its best to have a structure first before doing so.

 

[ToxicPhox]

Normally I'd lock this thread, as at the surface you're asking for team-building help (in the wrong forum) which is against the rules, but perhaps this is something that others like you can learn from. Next time, though, don't be so quick to post without reading our announcements and stickied topics, as we have worked very, very hard on them just for new people like you.

Im sorry about that Jumpman, wont happen again. And if there is any way to move a thread, ill try.

Wow, look at all the Rotom praise; ive never used him but he sounds fun ^_^

 

[Trust]

Gardevoir is very strong in OU. It counters like a champ the Electivire-Gyarados combo: you switch in Gyarados and you will low his attack with his own intimidate, and if you switch in Electivire, you will get a Motor Drive's boost, and with outspeed him to burn or sleep him. Infernape should be careful too.

 

[Bologo]

In the case of Toxicroak if you really do like it than thats a good start. Toxicroak in its own right is an extremely strong and versatile UU that operates well at all levels in multiple styles. What I'd normally do is start building around the favourite, in this case fire/psychic/ground/flying weaknesses, while making sure each of those have a different role. What Toxicroak does can actually come last since you'll be using it anyway.

Yeah, like I said in my Lesson Warstory, all pokemon on the team must do something for the team and at the same time be able to support themselves if they get stuck in a sticky situation.

The way I like to put it is that on your team, there should be a Plan A/B/C/D/E AND F.

Toxicroak is really good though, it has resistances to a lot of things that everything else doesn't thanks to its typing. 4x weak to Psychic is a small price to pay for those resistances. (Eg. Being resistant to the Dark/Fighting combo that so many pokemon run. Plus its movepool is out of the wazoo.

There's very few pokemon that learn both Swords Dance AND Nasty Plot, but Toxicroak is one of them.

Just decide what kind of Toxicroak you want, then the team can support that.

Yeah like the other contributors have been saying, just pick a favourite and build around it while making sure that building around it isn't neutering your team. Just remember, plan A/B/C/D/E/F.

 

[Pneuma]

Oh thanks, now I'm a masochist ._.

At the very least you like to play games that are tipped in the opponent's favor. It's a bit harder to deny that.

A good way to ensure having different plans for different occasions is to base your team off of little 2-pokemon or 3-pokemon combos that, together, share amazing resistances or play off of common opponent errors (Gyaravire comes to mind in OU). You can lose 4 pokemon and still carry in your pocket a "winning strategy".

UU is good for this because, for the average opponent, not knowing what to do when they see a Camerupt could mean a free 25% water absorb for your Choice Scarf Lapras or a free switch-in for your Encore Chatot.


^_^

 

[Trust]

UU teams in an OU match, with anyone who aren't used to playing with UU teams, allways give you an small advantage. Like Pneuma said, Lapras could be a Dragon Dancer, or an Special Sweeper, or a Choice one... If you see a Sharpedo you could doubt if it's physical, special or mixed. Ninetales could give you a bad day with Hypnosis and Nasty Plot. Pinsir counters two OU walls called Weezing and Bronzong (Gengar too), which think that they don't have problems, but when they see Mold Breaker+Earthquake... Rotom could use Parafusion as his main set, or a Trick one, or an Choice Specs+Trick too...

to sum up, a lot of UU pokes can work in OU without problems, but when they become to be well-known... they lose their strenght...

 

[Aeroblacktyl]

Pick a theme. I'm sure with a RD/SD/Hail/TR room can easily be built using mostly BLs and some UUs...and maybe 1 or 2 OU if you really must...

 

[Forsety]

At the very least you like to play games that are tipped in the opponent's favor. It's a bit harder to deny that.

Higher odds, funner payoff. <3

A good way to ensure having different plans for different occasions is to base your team off of little 2-pokemon or 3-pokemon combos that, together, share amazing resistances or play off of common opponent errors (Gyaravire comes to mind in OU). You can lose 4 pokemon and still carry in your pocket a "winning strategy".

I'm going to strongly second this quote as extremely important, it essentially expands on what I and some others previously mentioned.

Its a very good general team building practice to do this as already mentioned it offers you a failsafe plan. I tend to test my teams in groups of 3 as even if they go down then my team is still functioning equally as well as a team which was built to work as a 6 man team.

Also what it does is its easier to keep track of what you are doing if you break things down. If you're using weaker Pokemon, you can afford less team building errors therefore you need to get more out of less.