Metagame SM NU Speculation Thread [Read Post #109!]

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Hawlucha will never get here, there are a bunch of hawluchas in RU alpha. Sub + SD + acrobatics + HJK makes mincemeat of offense if unburden activates and the substitute shields hawlucha from scald burns. I'm more worried about BL2 and RU coming crashing back down to NU. Sharpedo regular, anyone?
 
That kinda brings up my post from the previous page. If enough stuff falls down then we can't compare a threat to what the old standard of NU (ORASNU) was. Its a completely different environment that we have to take into account.
 

twinkay

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So to help us better get an understanding what's going to be in SM NU, here's the list of mons we'll get if RU keeps the top 60 mons they got from UU, considering OU kept 49 mons and UU kept 54. http://pastebin.com/5p8ST0v6
And some bad analysis:


Vaporeon @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Heal Bell / Roar / Toxic / Baton Pass
- Wish / Toxic
- Protect / Toxic

Vaporeon @ Choice Specs
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 132 HP / 252 SpA / 124 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hydro Pump / Scald
- Scald / Surf
- Ice Beam
- Baton Pass

Vaporeon would be a cool bulky water for NU, and the best wish passer we have now that M-Dino is dead. Defensive would be a cool stall / balance mon with access to Heal Bell, Roar, and everyone's favorite move, Scald. Water immunity is nice to deal with threats like Floatzel and Samurott. It's also really bulky, it had 130 / 60 / 95 defenses meaning it's pretty physically weak but it's a great special tank. Specs probably isn't as good as defensive is, but it's an interesting concept. Set is pretty self-explanatory, Ice Beam hits Grasses, and BP is nice for momentum, speed creep is for max speed jolly Don. 110 SpA is nothing to sleep on; that's higher than Heliolisk, which is, by the way, another mon we're probably getting. Vaporeon's biggest weaknnesses are probably it's lack of physical defense and random Bloom Doom Fires.


Jellicent @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Will-O-Wisp
- Hex / Taunt
- Scald / Taunt
- Recover

Jellicent is another bulky water with some interesting capabilities. Wisp is a great move even after the burn nerf and Hex is nice in conjunction with it, and works well on T-Spikes builds and Stall. Jellicent as a whole is a neat spinblocker for hazard stacking teams because of Hex and being able to Taunt slower Defoggers. Recover is reliable recovery that many defensive mons in the depths of NU lack, so that's another benefit. Enjoy your boring spread for now because who knows what threats to prepare for. Jellicent's weaknesses are pretty exploitable, and being weak to Knock Off in particular hinders its effectiveness.


Milotic @ Leftovers
Ability: Marvel Scale
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
- Scald
- Ice Beam
- Recover
- Haze

Final bulky water, Milotic is pretty self explanatory. Scald, Ice Beam is for grasses, Recover is because reliable recovery is good, and Haze stops set-up sweepers. Marvel Scale is a neat ability because you take less physical damage if the opponent tries to status you. Overall a very solid defensive Pokemon, arguably better than the previous two mons. (this is probably a no)


Registeel @ Leftovers
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
- Seismic Toss
- Stealth Rock
- Toxic
- Protect

Another huge defensive threat, Registeel has a great defensive type and a nice support movepool to back it up with. It specifically forms good cores with bulky Waters, and as you've very clearly seen, we're getting some of those. SToss gets consistent damage, Rocks is good, Toxic + Protect are for stalling the opponent out. Overall a good blanket check to many mons.

Would do more analysis but I'm bored, here are some more defensive mons that you'll want to look out for:
Sableye: Prankster + Wisp
Uxie: Extremely versalite with great defenses
Shiinotic: Strength Sap and some nice resists
Guzzlord: Beastly HP stat without being passive
Pyukumuku: Unaware and a stally moveset, could also abuse Z-Purify
Gligar: Eviolite-boosted bulk, Roost, could act as a wincon (this probably won't drop either)
Aromatisse: Cleric, Wish, Taunt immune
Shuckle: Hazards
Cofagrigus: Wisp, T-Spikes, Normal and Fighting immune
Shaymin: SubSeed, amazing bulk, not passive

And we're literally just getting started...

Who needs Mega Dino when we have Mega Glalie...
 
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So to help us better get an understanding what's going to be in SM NU, here's the list of mons we'll get if RU keeps the top 60 mons they got from UU, considering OU kept 49 mons and UU kept 54. http://pastebin.com/5p8ST0v6
And some bad analysis:


Vaporeon @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Heal Bell / Roar / Toxic / Baton Pass
- Wish / Toxic
- Protect / Toxic

Vaporeon @ Choice Specs
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 132 HP / 252 SpA / 124 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hydro Pump / Scald
- Scald / Surf
- Ice Beam
- Baton Pass

Vaporeon would be a cool bulky water for NU, and the best wish passer we have now that M-Dino is dead. Defensive would be a cool stall / balance mon with access to Heal Bell, Roar, and everyone's favorite move, Scald. Water immunity is nice to deal with threats like Floatzel and Samurott. It's also really bulky, it had 130 / 60 / 95 defenses meaning it's pretty physically weak but it's a great special tank. Specs probably isn't as good as defensive is, but it's an interesting concept. Set is pretty self-explanatory, Ice Beam hits Grasses, and BP is nice for momentum, speed creep is for max speed jolly Don. 110 SpA is nothing to sleep on; that's higher than Heliolisk, which is, by the way, another mon we're probably getting. Vaporeon's biggest weaknnesses are probably it's lack of physical defense and random Bloom Doom Fires.


Jellicent @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Will-O-Wisp
- Hex / Taunt
- Scald / Taunt
- Recover

Jellicent is another bulky water with some interesting capabilities. Wisp is a great move even after the burn nerf and Hex is nice in conjunction with it, and works well on T-Spikes builds and Stall. Jellicent as a whole is a neat spinblocker for hazard stacking teams because of Hex and being able to Taunt slower Defoggers. Recover is reliable recovery that many defensive mons in the depths of NU lack, so that's another benefit. Enjoy your boring spread for now because who knows what threats to prepare for. Jellicent's weaknesses are pretty exploitable, and being weak to Knock Off in particular hinders its effectiveness.


Milotic @ Leftovers
Ability: Marvel Scale
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
- Scald
- Ice Beam
- Recover
- Haze

Final bulky water, Milotic is pretty self explanatory. Scald, Ice Beam is for grasses, Recover is because reliable recovery is good, and Haze stops set-up sweepers. Marvel Scale is a neat ability because you take less physical damage if the opponent tries to status you. Overall a very solid defensive Pokemon, arguably better than the previous two mons.


Registeel @ Leftovers
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
- Seismic Toss
- Stealth Rock
- Toxic
- Protect

Another huge defensive threat, Registeel has a great defensive type and a nice support movepool to back it up with. It specifically forms good cores with bulky Waters, and as you've very clearly seen, we're getting some of those. SToss gets consistent damage, Rocks is good, Toxic + Protect are for stalling the opponent out. Overall a good blanket check to many mons.

Would do more analysis but I'm bored, here are some more defensive mons that you'll want to look out for:
Sableye: Prankster + Wisp
Uxie: Extremely versalite with great defenses
Shiinotic: Strength Sap and some nice resists
Guzzlord: Beastly HP stat without being passive
Pyukumuku: Unaware and a stally moveset, could also abuse Z-Purify
Gligar: Eviolite-boosted bulk, Roost, could act as a wincon
Aromatisse: Cleric, Wish, Taunt immune
Shuckle: Hazards
Cofagrigus: Wisp, T-Spikes, Normal and Fighting immune
Shaymin: SubSeed, amazing bulk, not passive

And we're literally just getting started...

Who needs Mega Dino when we have Mega Glalie...
First really nice post, but there are some flaws in it. Milotic is right now one of the best / if not the best bulky water in SM RU. It's an easy fit on most balance teams since Milotic comes in on alot of mons in SM RU right now just because of it's straight bulk on both physical and special side. So Milotic won't fall down to SM NU.
Gligar is with crobat maybe two best defoggers in sm ru rn, like Milotic it's an easy fit on most balance teams with it's bulk with an eviolite. Gligar is able to come in on most physical attackers and not being weak to T-spikes is also amazing for it. The chance of Gligar going down to SM NU is very very small. Uxie looks like a 50/50. The rest I completely agree on. Again nice post!
 
Yes, those mons are likely to be used offensive teams, but they are not being used currently simply because the power level is too high for them. Who ever heard of a Durant in ORAS UU? I'd imagine (and have seen personally) that Durant and Sharpedo have very little usage, and I doubt Houndoom has enough to keep it over 3.41%. What niche does Bloom Doom Houndoom have over things like Bloom Doom Entei or Chandelure, after all?
Also, being banned from ORAS RU means little as of right now, since seeing as SM RU so far is quite similar to ORAS UU it stands to reason that some things that were underwhelming in UU but banned from RU (Moltres, Pangoro, Yanmega, Zoroark) would not get a lot of usage.

also on a sidenote, on a scale of 1 to OH GOD NO, how terrifying does hawlucha sound? because we're likely getting that.
Bloom doom entei is simply a gimmick, given that the main reason to use it is sacred fire, forcing yourself into an adamant nature, so solar beams damage output isn't too satisfying. If you're going to use a z-move on entei, z-howl is actually a solid option. I have tried bloom doom Chandelure, and while it does sound great on paper, I find that its calm mind and choice scarf/specs sets are a lot better because energy ball is usually enough to heavily dent water types. Houndoom is used a lot not just for its bloom doom set, but the pursuit support it provides against, say a choice locked chandelure or hoopa, is invaluable to many teams, especially since RU is lacking in pursuit users. The niche houndoom has over entei is nasty plot as well as a much higher special attack stat and higher speed. Houndoom is better than chandelure at using bloom doom because nasty plot sets up faster than calm mind, chandelure' speed just isn't enough in crucial situations especiallywhen you're not using bloom doom(think:against nidoking, entei itself, and heracross), not to mention chandelure is a lot more susceptible to pursuit trapping(though not very common).
 
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I think Registeel will stay RU only because of nostalgia of last gen and not because its any good.

As far as things go, RIP the viability of Lilligant (Lack of Shaymin and Venusaur in RU Alpha right now) and Hitmonchan (Considering that this will just be ORAS RU and Hitmonchan was utter shit there) :(.

Tyrantrum spam will be extremely common in Alpha, as it has very few checks (we're very limited in terms of good Rock resists (and it has Earthquake and Outrage to hit the ones that do (though I think Rhydon (and Rhyperior if we get it somehow) can beat it if it lacks Aqua Tail) and teams without one just get 6-0'ed by it). It'll suck not having bans for the first month of alpha.

Shuckle webs will also be annoying. (Though I don't remember what it ran while it was available in RU last gen aside from Shuckle and Hitmonlee; Braviary is a maybe drop, though coming in for free against pretty much any Defogger and doing decent aside from that could make it stay in RU, though I haven't heard MUCH praise for it.)
 
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Heliolisk, Reuniclus, Hawlucha, Heracross, Cloyster won't be here. You shouldn't expect Haxorus, Dragalge, Feraligatr, Gligar and Gardevoir to stay here
 

cyanize

Mantra Good I Casted So Many Spells U Idiot
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Bloom doom entei is simply a gimmick, given that the main reason to use it is sacred fire, forcing yourself into an adamant nature, so solar beams damage output isn't too satisfying. If you're going to use a z-move on entei, z-howl is actually a solid option. I have tried bloom doom Chandelure, and while it does sound great on paper, I find that its calm mind and choice scarf/specs sets are a lot better because energy ball is usually enough to heavily dent water types. Houndoom is used a lot not just for its bloom doom set, but the pursuit support it provides against, say a choice locked chandelure or hoopa, is invaluable to many teams, especially since RU is lacking in pursuit users. The niche houndoom has over entei is nasty plot as well as a much higher special attack stat and higher speed. Houndoom is better than chandelure at using bloom doom because nasty plot sets up faster than calm mind, chandelure' speed just isn't enough in crucial situations especiallywhen you're not using bloom doom(think:against nidoking, entei itself, and heracross), not to mention chandelure is a lot more susceptible to pursuit trapping(though not very common).
Okay, let me put it this way instead: simply because you find success with an unpopular set doesn't mean it will garner enough usage to be considered RU. I've asked both the RU room and the RU discord and general consensus is that Houndoom will drop to NU, and it's certainly not the only mon that probably deserves more usage than it will get (Diancie, Slowking, Yanmega, Venomoth, Tyrantrum, Minior all come to mind).
 

erisia

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I'd just like to announce that we won't be starting our official SMNU Alpha until April, following the decision made by the respective tier leaders in this thread. I want to emphasise that the NU tier leaders DID influence this decision, and this is not a case of other site staff acting on our behalf. This is for a number of reasons, the main one being that any official metagame started now would be extremely unbalanced and not very representative of a final tier at all. We want to ensure that everyone has the best experience possible when SMNU starts officially, and this is the best method of us doing so, giving us an enjoyable metagame right off the bat that will mitigate any frustration caused by clearly unbalanced strategies that wouldn't be banned during an earlier Alpha phase. Releasing the official metagame around April time was the original plan when the new games were released, so think of this more as re-establishing that plan rather than delaying the metagame.

That being said, we will provide a banlist once the first lot of RU Alpha stats have been produced in February so that you can challenge people to an unofficial speculative metagame (like the previous one) while we wait for an official metagame to form (we will probably also hold the occasional room tour). This thread will be the perfect place to discuss this metagame and how you think it will change by the time the official NU Alpha comes out.

tl;dr we won't be releasing SMNU Alpha until April, but this will result in a stronger NU tier and playerbase once things have settled down, and we can still speculate in the mean time, so have fun guys. :)
 
Z moves need to go.
I just can't stand when I'm going about my day on showdown and some goof just clicks some insanely high powered move. It's incredibly annoying because I can do a crazy amount of prep and then golurk is finally going to sweep, and then a mon with hydro vortex says hi. If I am just uninformed about ways to counter zmoves let me know. I personally would enjoy a zmove ban.
 
Z moves need to go.
I just can't stand when I'm going about my day on showdown and some goof just clicks some insanely high powered move. It's incredibly annoying because I can do a crazy amount of prep and then golurk is finally going to sweep, and then a mon with hydro vortex says hi. If I am just uninformed about ways to counter zmoves let me know. I personally would enjoy a zmove ban.
The best way to counter z-moves is to switch out the pokemon into a resist or an immunity. Substitute is also great for blocking z-moves, as is protect (25% damage) because no one will use a z-move on a pokemon with a substitute. Focus sash would also work (survive that attack). Invulnerable turns (fly, bounce, phantom force, dive, etc) could also work.
 

yogi

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The best way to counter z-moves is to switch out the pokemon into a resist or an immunity. Substitute is also great for blocking z-moves, as is protect (25% damage) because no one will use a z-move on a pokemon with a substitute. Focus sash would also work (survive that attack). Invulnerable turns (fly, bounce, phantom force, dive, etc) could also work.
The issue is you don't know what is carrying a z-move or what z-move they might be carrying, without the use of abilities such as frisk or by failing moves like trick and switcheroo, which makes it a lot harder to actually predict. They may also choose to not use their z-move when you switch, making it more a game of chance at higher levels of play. As much as I joke about them being broken, most are perfectly fine for the upcoming meta; though it does help to push NU towards a more offensive one in my honest opinion.
 

erisia

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Z moves need to go.
I just can't stand when I'm going about my day on showdown and some goof just clicks some insanely high powered move. It's incredibly annoying because I can do a crazy amount of prep and then golurk is finally going to sweep, and then a mon with hydro vortex says hi. If I am just uninformed about ways to counter zmoves let me know. I personally would enjoy a zmove ban.
Z-moves are pretty powerful but this is a somewhat bad example; I'm sure most Water-type attacks would come close to KOing Golurk. That said, it is difficult to predict when the opponent is running a Z-move outside of a few specific circumstances. Stuff like Z-Focus Blast from Magmortar or Z-Solar Beam from Pyroar can be pretty hard to anticipate. My advice is to may attention to whether Pokemon that normally reveal their items (such as Life Orb or Leftovers users) don't and to how much your attacks do (i.e. is your Fire Blast doing more to the opposing AV Magmortar than you thought it would? In that case it's probably not running AV...). I appreciate that this isn't a reliable way of scouting for Z-moves (nothing is outside of Frisk users), but on the other hand there isn't a lot of evidence to suggest that these moves are overpowered or centralising yet or whether they just result in better Pokemon that should be suspected / banned accordingly.

So we might as well just wait and see as the Alpha and Beta stages pass as to whether something broken across multiple Pokemon (such as potentially Z-Solar Beam) becomes prevalent.
 
Z-moves are pretty powerful but this is a somewhat bad example; I'm sure most Water-type attacks would come close to KOing Golurk. That said, it is difficult to predict when the opponent is running a Z-move outside of a few specific circumstances. Stuff like Z-Focus Blast from Magmortar or Z-Solar Beam from Pyroar can be pretty hard to anticipate. My advice is to may attention to whether Pokemon that normally reveal their items (such as Life Orb or Leftovers users) don't and to how much your attacks do (i.e. is your Fire Blast doing more to the opposing AV Magmortar than you thought it would? In that case it's probably not running AV...). I appreciate that this isn't a reliable way of scouting for Z-moves (nothing is outside of Frisk users), but on the other hand there isn't a lot of evidence to suggest that these moves are overpowered or centralising yet or whether they just result in better Pokemon that should be suspected / banned accordingly.

So we might as well just wait and see as the Alpha and Beta stages pass as to whether something broken across multiple Pokemon (such as potentially Z-Solar Beam) becomes prevalent.
alright thx bro I'll try that in all my battles now and I'll see if it works :)
 
http://serebii.net/

BODY SLAM TAUROS IT'S HAPPENING
yah everybody's waiting and even hyping for that, as tauros can now have a STAB move that doesnt miss!! But this have been discussed in chat a few several times, and I still personally prefer Rock Climb, as even 5 base power difference is still has an impact, and the more powerful Rock Climb lets tauros deal more damage to several physical walls, and can even score some important 2HKOs after getting minimal prior damage, or crippled when losing their items.
Rock Climb
252 Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Tauros Rock Climb vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Vileplume: 165-196 (46.6 - 55.3%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery
252 Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Tauros Rock Climb vs. 252 HP / 148+ Def Weezing: 142-169 (42.5 - 50.5%) -- 46.5% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery
252 Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Tauros Rock Climb vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Vileplume: 165-196 (46.6 - 55.3%) -- 12.5% chance to 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
252 Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Tauros Rock Climb vs. 252 HP / 244+ Def Gastrodon: 191-226 (44.8 - 53%) -- 27.3% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Tauros Rock Climb vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Quagsire: 165-196 (41.8 - 49.7%) -- 26.6% chance to 2HKO after 1 layer of Spikes and Leftovers recovery
Body Slam
252 Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Tauros Body Slam vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Vileplume: 157-187 (44.3 - 52.8%) -- 84% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery
252 Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Tauros Body Slam vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Vileplume: 157-187 (44.3 - 52.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Black Sludge recovery
252 Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Tauros Body Slam vs. 252 HP / 148+ Def Weezing: 136-161 (40.7 - 48.2%) -- 9% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery
252 Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Tauros Body Slam vs. 252 HP / 244+ Def Gastrodon: 181-214 (42.4 - 50.2%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Tauros Body Slam vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Quagsire: 157-187 (39.8 - 47.4%) -- 2.3% chance to 2HKO after 1 layer of Spikes and Leftovers recovery
 

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yah everybody's waiting and even hyping for that, as tauros can now have a STAB move that doesnt miss!! But this have been discussed in chat a few several times, and I still personally prefer Rock Climb, as even 5 base power difference is still has an impact, and the more powerful Rock Climb lets tauros deal more damage to several physical walls, and can even score some important 2HKOs after getting minimal prior damage, or crippled when losing their items.
Rock Climb
252 Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Tauros Rock Climb vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Vileplume: 165-196 (46.6 - 55.3%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery
252 Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Tauros Rock Climb vs. 252 HP / 148+ Def Weezing: 142-169 (42.5 - 50.5%) -- 46.5% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery
252 Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Tauros Rock Climb vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Vileplume: 165-196 (46.6 - 55.3%) -- 12.5% chance to 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
252 Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Tauros Rock Climb vs. 252 HP / 244+ Def Gastrodon: 191-226 (44.8 - 53%) -- 27.3% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Tauros Rock Climb vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Quagsire: 165-196 (41.8 - 49.7%) -- 26.6% chance to 2HKO after 1 layer of Spikes and Leftovers recovery
Body Slam
252 Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Tauros Body Slam vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Vileplume: 157-187 (44.3 - 52.8%) -- 84% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery
252 Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Tauros Body Slam vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Vileplume: 157-187 (44.3 - 52.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Black Sludge recovery
252 Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Tauros Body Slam vs. 252 HP / 148+ Def Weezing: 136-161 (40.7 - 48.2%) -- 9% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery
252 Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Tauros Body Slam vs. 252 HP / 244+ Def Gastrodon: 181-214 (42.4 - 50.2%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Tauros Body Slam vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Quagsire: 157-187 (39.8 - 47.4%) -- 2.3% chance to 2HKO after 1 layer of Spikes and Leftovers recovery
The thing with your calcs is that against the poison types you listed, Tauros would be going for Zen Headbutt anyway so your normal stab doesn't actually matter there, and against the other two regardless of the slightly higher damage it doesn't actually matter because either way you're very unlikely to 2HKO them with whichever move you have. Body slam actually works better when attempting to break things because theres no chance you miss and lose out on chip, but more importantly tauros is at its best against offense anyway where the 5 base power difference doesnt matter but the lack of a miss chance definitely does
 
Zen headbutt really just merits nailing those other poison types, which is pretty much team dependent, and most of what zen headbutt hits is hit by Rock climb well enough to ditch good amount of damage.
 
Zen Headbutt also has a chance of ohkoing Hariyama after rocks and 2hkoing Gurdurr which is something Rock Climb cant do. It's also the only move Tauros usually carries other than Pursuit that can 2hko Rotom. Sure, the moves you pick depend on the team composition but if youre using Rock Climb over Body Slam because youre afraid of Weezing and Vileplume, why not run ZHB over something? If your team handles the two well, then you don't go ZHB, but you also dont need the extra chip vs them, so either way, Body Slam is the superior option.

Also: 90 * 85% < 85 * 100%, meaning Body Slam Tauros does more damage in the long run to Quagsire and Gastrodon, not to mention you have around 70% chance of landing 2 consecutive Rock Climbs, which boils down to this: would you really risk hitting a Focus Blast when the mon has an another move that has a tiny bit less power?

252 Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Tauros Zen Headbutt vs. 252 HP / 64 Def Eviolite Gurdurr: 177-208 (47.3 - 55.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Tauros Zen Headbutt vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Hariyama: 369-437 (86 - 101.8%) -- 50% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Tauros Zen Headbutt vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Rotom: 153-181 (63.2 - 74.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
 

twinkay

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A few cool things from the RBY transfer:

  • Body Slam + Quick Attack Tauros (Body Slam has been covered already but QA is cool STAB priority, although might have a hard time finding its way on movesets)
  • Leech Seed Vileplume (Debatable whether this is worth using over Sleep Powder but could work)
  • Growth 1st gen Eeveelutions (Z-Growth gives you +2 SpA boost and gives you an opportunity to go mixed, Jolteon gets a shoutout due to it being fast and having BP if that's ever unbanned)
  • Sweet Kiss Politoed / Poliwrath (putting random mons to sleep is fun)
  • Petal Dance Golduck / Jynx (Bloom Doom beats bulky Waters for Golduck / Waters and Rocks for Jynx)
  • Petal Dance + Sing Raichu (Bloom Doom beats bulky Grounds, Z-Sing is an interesting concept, too bad you can't run both Z-moves)
  • Rapid Spin Golem (Less outclassed by Rhydon ig)
  • Hypnosis Misdreavus (Z-Hypnosis Mismagius seems cool)
  • Ancient Power Venusaur (Continental Crush gives you 120 BP Rock coverage)
  • Sharpen Steelix (Z-Sharpen gives you a SD boost)
  • Sweet Kiss + Rock Throw Pinsir (Continetal Crush is good coverage and confusion is there if you want to be gimmicky)
  • Mind Reader Mr. Mime (Z-Mind Reader gives +1 SpA and gurantees you can hit something like Focus Blast)
  • Safeguard Xatu / Stantler (Z-Safeguard gives +1 speed)
  • Sweet Kiss + Lovely Kiss Victreebel (As mentioned before, random sleep is fun but you should prob only use this over Sleep Powder if you are looking really weak to a Sap Sipper mon. Sweet Kiss gets a shoutout because Z-Sweet Kiss gives you a +1 SpA boost allowing you to make use out of your special movepool)
  • Agility Magneton (Could function as a good sweeper, has good power and bulk and 70 speed is not bad for an Agility sweeper)
  • Pursuit Electabuzz (Pursuit's busted)
As you can see I got a bit lazy toward the end. Also some of these mons are speculative but there's a good chance we'll get mons like Venu and Magneton I hope. I'm also operating on the presumption that Electivire and Mismagius will get Pursuit and Hypnosis, respectively.

Thx for reading + hope this was helpful!
 
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yogi

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A few cool things from the RBY transfer:

  • Body Slam + Quick Attack Tauros (Body Slam has been covered already but QA is cool STAB priority, although might have a hard time finding its way on movesets)
  • Leech Seed Vileplume (Debatable whether this is worth using over Sleep Powder but could work)
  • Growth 1st / 2nd gen Eeveelutions (Z-Growth gives you +2 SpA boost and gives you an opportunity to go mixed, Jolteon gets a shoutout due to it being fast and having BP if that's ever unbanned)
  • Sweet Kiss Politoed / Poliwrath (putting random mons to sleep is fun)
  • Petal Dance Golduck / Jynx (Bloom Doom beats bulky Waters for Golduck / Waters and Rocks for Jynx)
  • Petal Dance + Sing Raichu (Bloom Doom beats bulky Grounds, Z-Sing is an interesting concept, too bad you can't run both Z-moves)
  • Rapid Spin Golem (Less outclassed by Rhydon ig)
  • Hypnosis Misdreavus (Z-Hypnosis Mismagius seems cool)
  • Ancient Power Venusaur (Continental Crush gives you 120 BP Rock coverage)
  • Amnesia + Mist Octillery (Worth mentioning ig due to Z-Mist giving you full recovery)
  • Sharpen Steelix (Z-Sharpen gives you a SD boost)
  • Double-Edge Typhlosion (Random physical Normal-moves, everyone's favorite)
  • Sweet Kiss + Lovely Kiss Victreebel (As mentioned before, random sleep is fun but you should prob only use this over Sleep Powder if you are looking really weak to a Sap Sipper mon. Sweet Kiss gets a shoutout because Z-Sweet Kiss gives you a +1 SpA boost allowing you to make use out of your special movepool)
  • Agility Magneton (Could function as a good sweeper, has good power and bulk and 70 speed is not bad for an Agility sweeper)
  • Moonlight Sneasel (Recovery is cool I guess)
  • Pursuit Electabuzz (Pursuit's busted)
  • Mega Kick Miltank (I mean it could work on a Normalium Z wallbreaker set)
  • Splash Sunflora (My new Sun wincon)
As you can see I got a bit lazy toward the end. Also some of these mons are speculative but there's a good chance we'll get mons like Venu and Magneton I hope. I'm also operating on the presumption that Electivire and Mismagius will get Pursuit and Hypnosis, respectively.

Thx for reading + hope this was helpful!
Don't transfer moves only work for gen one pokemon, considering gold and silver aren't on the 3ds atm?
 
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Abejas

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Also not to bust your hopes, magneton is UU and really good there, I doubt it will ever drop to nu again.
 
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