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Metagame Inheritance
- Thread starter Pigeons
- Start date
252 Atk Life Orb Protean Pheromosa Drain Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Snorlax: 312-369 (59.5 - 70.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
You may be asking yourself "Drain Punch on the most famously frail Pokemon in 4 generations?" Yeah. Kecleon's movepool is incredibly deep, and options like Drain Punch not only mitigate Life Orb recoil but it actually lets you deal with any non-Fur Coat/Fluffy Chansey, especially as it lets you combat damage taken from Seismic Toss.
Kecleon isn't the problem, Pheromosa is. No other Pokemon has Pheromosa's combination of blistering speed and overwhelming power. Pheromosa is the next Kyurem-B, and I'll quote the relevant post that answered a question I had on this subject once I'm on my computer.
EDIT: Got it.
My original post on the matter, and scpinion's reply.
The series of posts that prompted this exchange was on policy when banning No Guard Dynamic Punch and Chatot. Do we ban inheritance from three entire lines who all have otherwise completely legitimate competitive uses, or do we just ban the offending elements, including broken users? If you go back and read the arguments, one of the winning arguments was that No Guard Dynamic Punch could be on ANYTHING. A reasonably fast Pokemon with high Attack (or both in the stratosphere for the current culprit), spamming a perfectly accurate move with high base power, good coverage, AND a chance to make it so that my opponent hurts themselves and not me on any given turn?
No Guard Dynamic Punch is almost the perfect move, in a way. If you satisfy two conditions (1. Move first. 2. Be able to inflict Confusion with Dynamic Punch. The perfect move would only need condition 1.) you can mathematically guarantee yourself a win, and your opponent will never act.
The difference in argument is clear. We're not complaining about Kecleon as a donor. We're complaining about Pheromosa and what it can inherit. Suspect Pheromosa.
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could this work?
Cryogonal (Muk-Alola) @ Black Sludge
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 248 HP / 136 Atk / 124 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Rapid Spin
- Recover
- Poison Jab
- Acid Armor
an "offensive" spinner, with no weaknesses, and after an acid armor takes barely 3hko from hjk pheromosa naive and anchor shot adamant steekworker kartana, and after stealth rock damage oneshots pheromosa with poison jab. i've not tried it yet, but in theory this set should work. opinions?
Cryogonal (Muk-Alola) @ Black Sludge
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 248 HP / 136 Atk / 124 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Rapid Spin
- Recover
- Poison Jab
- Acid Armor
an "offensive" spinner, with no weaknesses, and after an acid armor takes barely 3hko from hjk pheromosa naive and anchor shot adamant steekworker kartana, and after stealth rock damage oneshots pheromosa with poison jab. i've not tried it yet, but in theory this set should work. opinions?
Here's a Pokémon that can counter Pheromosa:
Muk-Alola @ Assault Vest
Ability: Fur Coat
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Careful Nature
- Fake Out
- Foul Play
- Play Rough
- Feint/U-turn
It can guaranteed OHKO Pheromosa, and most versions of Pheromosa can't 2HKO it without either a Choice Band/Specs or a critical hit, which means it can safely switch in and then get the KO.
Here are the calcs:
0 Atk Muk-Alola Play Rough vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Pheromosa: 286-338 (101 - 119.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
0 Atk Muk-Alola Foul Play vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Pheromosa: 285-336 (100.7 - 118.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
(Assuming Pheromosa has 31 IVs and 0 EVs in Atk and is not currently Fighting or Dark type. It's probably best to lead with Fake Out in case Pheromosa happens to have 0 IVs in Atk. And if for some reason Pheromosa uses Knock Off/Drain Punch the turn you use Foul Play, you can finish it off with Feint; worst case scenario, Pheromosa survives the Feint, kills you, and then dies from Life Orb recoil.
252 Atk Life Orb Protean Pheromosa Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Fur Coat Muk-Alola: 126-149 (30.4 - 35.9%) -- 48.1% chance to 3HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Protean Pheromosa Hidden Power Ground vs. 252 HP / 4+ SpD Assault Vest Muk-Alola: 164-195 (39.6 - 47.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Adaptability Pheromosa Superpower vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Fur Coat Muk-Alola: 169-200 (40.8 - 48.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 Atk Guts Pheromosa Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Fur Coat Muk-Alola: 162-192 (39.1 - 46.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Pheromosa Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 4+ SpD Assault Vest Muk-Alola: 161-192 (38.8 - 46.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Hustle Pheromosa Drill Run vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Fur Coat Muk-Alola: 169-200 (40.8 - 48.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Reckless Pheromosa High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Fur Coat Muk-Alola: 165-195 (39.8 - 47.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
The only way Pheromosa wins is with Hustle+Earthquake (from Corsola), Stakeout+Earthquake (from Gumshoos), or Sheer Force+Earth Power (several possible donors), and even then only if Muk gets hit with Earthquake/Earth Power on the switchin; the first two are pretty terrible options, and while the latter does have some potential, it's probably not the best choice for Pheromosa, and I have never seen it used.
Edit: I forgot about Contrary Pheromosa.
Life Orb Contrary Pheromosa loses: it can’t 2HKO Muk, but after Life Orb recoil, Muk can guaranteed KO it with Fake Out+Foul Play+Feint.
Contrary Pheromosa without a Life Orb wins: it is powerful enough to 3HKO Muk, and Muk can’t quite KO it fast enough. But if you replace Play Rough with Aerial Ace, Muk has roughly a 50% chance (I think; I haven’t actually done the math) of winning, and if you change Muk’s nature from Careful to Sassy and replace Play Rough (or Feint) with Hidden Power Flying, Muk is guaranteed to win; either of those changes will still allow Muk to beat all the other Pheromosa variants, but will make it less useful against other opponents.
And, as an added bonus, this Muk can also counter Grassy Surge Kartana if necessary:
252+ Atk Kartana Wood Hammer vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Fur Coat Muk-Alola in Grassy Terrain: 99-117 (23.9 - 28.2%) -- possible 5HKO after Grassy Terrain recovery
0 Atk Muk-Alola Foul Play vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Kartana: 174-205 (54 - 63.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Grassy Terrain recovery
Muk-Alola @ Assault Vest
Ability: Fur Coat
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Careful Nature
- Fake Out
- Foul Play
- Play Rough
- Feint/U-turn
It can guaranteed OHKO Pheromosa, and most versions of Pheromosa can't 2HKO it without either a Choice Band/Specs or a critical hit, which means it can safely switch in and then get the KO.
Here are the calcs:
0 Atk Muk-Alola Play Rough vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Pheromosa: 286-338 (101 - 119.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
0 Atk Muk-Alola Foul Play vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Pheromosa: 285-336 (100.7 - 118.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
(Assuming Pheromosa has 31 IVs and 0 EVs in Atk and is not currently Fighting or Dark type. It's probably best to lead with Fake Out in case Pheromosa happens to have 0 IVs in Atk. And if for some reason Pheromosa uses Knock Off/Drain Punch the turn you use Foul Play, you can finish it off with Feint; worst case scenario, Pheromosa survives the Feint, kills you, and then dies from Life Orb recoil.
252 Atk Life Orb Protean Pheromosa Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Fur Coat Muk-Alola: 126-149 (30.4 - 35.9%) -- 48.1% chance to 3HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Protean Pheromosa Hidden Power Ground vs. 252 HP / 4+ SpD Assault Vest Muk-Alola: 164-195 (39.6 - 47.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Adaptability Pheromosa Superpower vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Fur Coat Muk-Alola: 169-200 (40.8 - 48.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 Atk Guts Pheromosa Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Fur Coat Muk-Alola: 162-192 (39.1 - 46.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Pheromosa Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 4+ SpD Assault Vest Muk-Alola: 161-192 (38.8 - 46.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Hustle Pheromosa Drill Run vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Fur Coat Muk-Alola: 169-200 (40.8 - 48.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Reckless Pheromosa High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Fur Coat Muk-Alola: 165-195 (39.8 - 47.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
The only way Pheromosa wins is with Hustle+Earthquake (from Corsola), Stakeout+Earthquake (from Gumshoos), or Sheer Force+Earth Power (several possible donors), and even then only if Muk gets hit with Earthquake/Earth Power on the switchin; the first two are pretty terrible options, and while the latter does have some potential, it's probably not the best choice for Pheromosa, and I have never seen it used.
Edit: I forgot about Contrary Pheromosa.
0 Atk Muk-Alola Fake Out vs. +1 0 HP / 4 Def Pheromosa: 43-51 (15.1 - 18%) -- possible 6HKO
0 Atk Muk-Alola Play Rough vs. +2 0 HP / 4 Def Pheromosa: 144-170 (50.8 - 60%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 0 Atk Muk-Alola Foul Play vs. +2 0 HP / 4 Def Pheromosa: 171-202 (60.4 - 71.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 Atk Muk-Alola Aerial Ace vs. +2 0 HP / 4 Def Pheromosa: 192-228 (67.8 - 80.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 SpA Muk-Alola Hidden Power Flying vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Pheromosa: 260-308 (91.8 - 108.8%) -- 50% chance to OHKO
0 Atk Muk-Alola Feint vs. +2 0 HP / 4 Def Pheromosa: 24-29 (8.4 - 10.2%) -- possibly the worst move ever
Total (Fake Out + Foul Play + Feint): 238-282 (84.1 - 99.6%)
Total (Fake Out + Aerial Ace + Feint): 259-308 (91.5 - 108.8%)
Total (Fake Out + Hidden Power Flying): 303-359 (107.1 – 126.9%)
252 Atk Pheromosa Superpower vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Fur Coat Muk-Alola: 97-115 (23.4 - 27.7%) -- 81.3% chance to 4HKO
+1 252 Atk Pheromosa Superpower vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Fur Coat Muk-Alola: 145-172 (35 - 41.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+2 252 Atk Pheromosa Superpower vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Fur Coat Muk-Alola: 193-228 (46.6 - 55%) -- 65.6% chance to 2HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Pheromosa Superpower vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Fur Coat Muk-Alola: 126-149 (30.4 - 35.9%) -- 48.1% chance to 3HKO
+1 252 Atk Life Orb Pheromosa Superpower vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Fur Coat Muk-Alola: 188-224 (45.4 - 54.1%) -- 47.7% chance to 2HKO
0 Atk Muk-Alola Play Rough vs. +2 0 HP / 4 Def Pheromosa: 144-170 (50.8 - 60%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 0 Atk Muk-Alola Foul Play vs. +2 0 HP / 4 Def Pheromosa: 171-202 (60.4 - 71.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 Atk Muk-Alola Aerial Ace vs. +2 0 HP / 4 Def Pheromosa: 192-228 (67.8 - 80.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 SpA Muk-Alola Hidden Power Flying vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Pheromosa: 260-308 (91.8 - 108.8%) -- 50% chance to OHKO
0 Atk Muk-Alola Feint vs. +2 0 HP / 4 Def Pheromosa: 24-29 (8.4 - 10.2%) -- possibly the worst move ever
Total (Fake Out + Foul Play + Feint): 238-282 (84.1 - 99.6%)
Total (Fake Out + Aerial Ace + Feint): 259-308 (91.5 - 108.8%)
Total (Fake Out + Hidden Power Flying): 303-359 (107.1 – 126.9%)
252 Atk Pheromosa Superpower vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Fur Coat Muk-Alola: 97-115 (23.4 - 27.7%) -- 81.3% chance to 4HKO
+1 252 Atk Pheromosa Superpower vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Fur Coat Muk-Alola: 145-172 (35 - 41.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+2 252 Atk Pheromosa Superpower vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Fur Coat Muk-Alola: 193-228 (46.6 - 55%) -- 65.6% chance to 2HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Pheromosa Superpower vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Fur Coat Muk-Alola: 126-149 (30.4 - 35.9%) -- 48.1% chance to 3HKO
+1 252 Atk Life Orb Pheromosa Superpower vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Fur Coat Muk-Alola: 188-224 (45.4 - 54.1%) -- 47.7% chance to 2HKO
Life Orb Contrary Pheromosa loses: it can’t 2HKO Muk, but after Life Orb recoil, Muk can guaranteed KO it with Fake Out+Foul Play+Feint.
Contrary Pheromosa without a Life Orb wins: it is powerful enough to 3HKO Muk, and Muk can’t quite KO it fast enough. But if you replace Play Rough with Aerial Ace, Muk has roughly a 50% chance (I think; I haven’t actually done the math) of winning, and if you change Muk’s nature from Careful to Sassy and replace Play Rough (or Feint) with Hidden Power Flying, Muk is guaranteed to win; either of those changes will still allow Muk to beat all the other Pheromosa variants, but will make it less useful against other opponents.
And, as an added bonus, this Muk can also counter Grassy Surge Kartana if necessary:
252+ Atk Kartana Wood Hammer vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Fur Coat Muk-Alola in Grassy Terrain: 99-117 (23.9 - 28.2%) -- possible 5HKO after Grassy Terrain recovery
0 Atk Muk-Alola Foul Play vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Kartana: 174-205 (54 - 63.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Grassy Terrain recovery
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I wouldn't call this a counter because it can't switch into Pheromosa repeatedly without recovery. Unfortunately Persian-Alola doesn't get Pursuit to punish it when switching out. :(
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Pheromosa Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 4+ SpD Assault Vest Muk-Alola: 208-247 (50.2 - 59.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Nidoking, with access to Megahorn, Superpower, also Stealth Rocks, and a few others I'm forgetting.
Nidoking, with access to Megahorn, Superpower, also Stealth Rocks, and a few others I'm forgetting.
Like I said, that particular set has potential, but overall is probably not as good as Kecleon Pheromosa, and I've never seen it used.
It's probably as close to a counter as you can get. I don't think there's anything much bulkier that isn't weak to any of Kecleon's moves, especially if you want STAB Foul Play.
I was trying to find a perfect Kecleon Pheromosa counter, my first try was Defensive Florges, and although it handles the most common sets, Iron Tail is part of Kecleon's movepool, so nah. Second try was Motor Drive Tapu Fini (Emolga), works even better than Florges, except it can't run Intimidate and is 2HKO'd by Double Edge (yeah, nobody uses that, but I was trying to find "the perfect counter"). The best I could find is Flash Fire Magearna:
Magearna @ Leftovers
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 192 Def / 64 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Wish
- Protect
- Will-O-Wisp
- ?
252 Atk Life Orb Protean Pheromosa Iron Tail vs. 252 HP / 192 Def Magearna: 165-196 (45.3 - 53.8%) - 2% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
4 SpA Life Orb Protean Pheromosa Hidden Power Ground vs. 252 HP / 64+ SpD Magearna: 172-203 (47.2 - 55.7%) - 10.9% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Wish+Protect avoids Dig
So yeah, with no hazards, no prior damage, with lefties, you can, most of the time, avoid the 2HKO from almost anything 252 Atk/4 SpA LO Kecleon Pheromosa can do. Honestly, I would stick to Emolga Tapu Fini lol.
Magearna @ Leftovers
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 192 Def / 64 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Wish
- Protect
- Will-O-Wisp
- ?
252 Atk Life Orb Protean Pheromosa Iron Tail vs. 252 HP / 192 Def Magearna: 165-196 (45.3 - 53.8%) - 2% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
4 SpA Life Orb Protean Pheromosa Hidden Power Ground vs. 252 HP / 64+ SpD Magearna: 172-203 (47.2 - 55.7%) - 10.9% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Wish+Protect avoids Dig
So yeah, with no hazards, no prior damage, with lefties, you can, most of the time, avoid the 2HKO from almost anything 252 Atk/4 SpA LO Kecleon Pheromosa can do. Honestly, I would stick to Emolga Tapu Fini lol.
Kodachrome (Tapu Koko) @ Light Clay
Ability: Snow Warning
EVs: 112 HP / 144 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Moonblast
- Encore
- Aurora Veil
- Hidden Power [Ground]
Helpless Dancer (Heatran) @ Firium Z
Ability: Drought
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Shell Smash
- Fire Blast
- Solar Beam
- Earth Power
Gogol Bordello (Gyarados) @ Gyaradosite
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Shell Smash
- Liquidation
- Knock Off
- Aqua Jet
DVNO (Kartana) @ Life Orb
Ability: Steelworker
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Anchor Shot
- Power Whip
- Brick Break
- Swords Dance
Rebel Yell (Thundurus) @ Life Orb
Ability: Magnet Pull
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Discharge
- Flamethrower
- Focus Blast
- Earthquake
Space Oddity (Diancie) @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Moonblast
- Stealth Rock
- Power Gem
- Moonlight
Ability: Snow Warning
EVs: 112 HP / 144 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Moonblast
- Encore
- Aurora Veil
- Hidden Power [Ground]
Helpless Dancer (Heatran) @ Firium Z
Ability: Drought
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Shell Smash
- Fire Blast
- Solar Beam
- Earth Power
Gogol Bordello (Gyarados) @ Gyaradosite
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Shell Smash
- Liquidation
- Knock Off
- Aqua Jet
DVNO (Kartana) @ Life Orb
Ability: Steelworker
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Anchor Shot
- Power Whip
- Brick Break
- Swords Dance
Rebel Yell (Thundurus) @ Life Orb
Ability: Magnet Pull
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Discharge
- Flamethrower
- Focus Blast
- Earthquake
Space Oddity (Diancie) @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Moonblast
- Stealth Rock
- Power Gem
- Moonlight
Kartana is fast & very strong, beats Water-types, and either Gyarados or Heatran will beat any of its switch-ins (& Anchor Shot = no doubles). Thundurus supports Kartana by trapping Steel-types, and helps pressure Water-types while outspeeding Mega Metagross & being Ground-immune. Plus, it's not an obvious Steel trapper. Diancie exists for rocks and not losing to Mega Pinsir or Protean Pheromosa.
Replays from said room tour:
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7inheritance-529600584
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7inheritance-529604601
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Guuuuyyyysss. Please put the donor pokemon in parentheses, not the actual pokemon it is. I've seen that so many times in this thread and it gets so damn confusing. Thanks.
I believe it's done like that because in Import/Export on Showdown, the actual pokemon is always put within parentheses, where as the pokemon's Nickname is sided to the left. So if you were to find a set in the thread you like you could easily copy and paste it into Showdown and it would be the correct pokemon, you'd just have to change the nickname (though with the donor reveal clause even that doesn't really matter).
ok, this set is probably useless and stupid, but is fun.
Infernape (Pignite) @ Eviolite
Ability: Iron Fist
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Mach Punch
- Bulk Up
- Slack Off
- Fire Punch
Pignite inherits from Infernape, obtaining recovery, a strong ability, priority, and bulk up for boosting. probably is """""""useful""""""" for teams suffering kartana and missing phisical attackers, and that can't run shell smash heatran cause the other members suffer the sun.
Infernape (Pignite) @ Eviolite
Ability: Iron Fist
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Mach Punch
- Bulk Up
- Slack Off
- Fire Punch
Pignite inherits from Infernape, obtaining recovery, a strong ability, priority, and bulk up for boosting. probably is """""""useful""""""" for teams suffering kartana and missing phisical attackers, and that can't run shell smash heatran cause the other members suffer the sun.
Unfortunately, that doesn't even fulfil that one niche. Dhelmise sets can bypass with 252 Atk Kartana Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Pignite: 302-356 (78.6 - 92.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO, while Tapu Bulu can just nuke it 252 Atk Kartana Wood Hammer vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Pignite in Grassy Terrain: 204-240 (53.1 - 62.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Grassy Terrain recovery. Neither even need a boosting item to easily bypass pignite.
Sheer Heart Attack Jr. here does indeed avoid KOs from Kartana, but with only a Poison STAB to its name, at best (Scarf Kartana) it can bring the fight to a standstill and give the opponent switch initiative (thanks, Anchor Shot!), and at worst (SD LO Kartana) both set up to +6 and Alolan Muk eventually loses, leaving you to deal with boosted Kartana. Cryogonal learns Knock Off; run that over Acid Armor and carry a real Steel resist as your Steelworker Kartana check. Probably not an actual Steel-type, since those get trapped.
Here are some sets that I thought of. I'm just theorymonning here, haven't tried them yet.
Porygon-Z (Xurkitree) @ Normalium Z
Ability: Adaptability
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Shadow Ball
- Ice Beam
- Conversion
- Thunderbolt
Conversion raises all of your stats by 1, making Xurkitree a fast, powerful sweeper. Convert to Ghost so Pheromosa, although it outspeeds you, can't do much.
Sudowoodo (Kartana) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Rock Head
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Head Smash
- Wood Hammer
- Earthquake
- Rock Polish / Stealth Rock / Explosion
Head Smash and Wood Hammer are powerful moves, and Rock Head removes their recoil damage. Earthquake to handle Steel types and Rock Polish to boost your Speed. You could also set up SR or squeeze out that last bit of damage using Explosion.
Butterfree (Gengar) @ Black Sludge / Life Orb / Focus Sash
Ability: Tinted Lens
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Sleep Powder
- Quiver Dance
- Giga Drain
- Shadow Ball
First, use Sleep Powder. Then, set up using Quiver Dance. Then sweep the team. Tinted Lens so Dark types or Steel types can't wall it. This does get walled by the likes of Unaware Suicune or Celesteela, however.
Porygon-Z (Xurkitree) @ Normalium Z
Ability: Adaptability
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Shadow Ball
- Ice Beam
- Conversion
- Thunderbolt
Conversion raises all of your stats by 1, making Xurkitree a fast, powerful sweeper. Convert to Ghost so Pheromosa, although it outspeeds you, can't do much.
Sudowoodo (Kartana) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Rock Head
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Head Smash
- Wood Hammer
- Earthquake
- Rock Polish / Stealth Rock / Explosion
Head Smash and Wood Hammer are powerful moves, and Rock Head removes their recoil damage. Earthquake to handle Steel types and Rock Polish to boost your Speed. You could also set up SR or squeeze out that last bit of damage using Explosion.
Butterfree (Gengar) @ Black Sludge / Life Orb / Focus Sash
Ability: Tinted Lens
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Sleep Powder
- Quiver Dance
- Giga Drain
- Shadow Ball
First, use Sleep Powder. Then, set up using Quiver Dance. Then sweep the team. Tinted Lens so Dark types or Steel types can't wall it. This does get walled by the likes of Unaware Suicune or Celesteela, however.
Really digging this meta. I've been thinking about previously unavailable move/ability combinations via mega evolution. Tough Claws Brave Bird Mega Aerodactyl hurts. Tough Claws Head Smash is insanely powerful if you want to go the suicide route. Also, Shift Gear / Technician Gear Grind on Mega Scizor via Klinklang is a cool idea.
Small set dump.
Bisharp (donor:scizor) @ Black Glasses
Ability: Technician
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Pursuit
- Bullet Punch
- Knock Off
- U-turn
Kind of a better scizor? Technician Pursuit punishes them whether they stay in or not. Tech Bullet Punch is obviously solid.
Rotom-Heat (donor:golem-a) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Magnet Pull
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Volt Switch
- Fire Blast
- Stealth Rock
- Focus Blast / Thunderbolt
Sets rocks, traps steels, has an actually good Fire stab.
Edit: Please ban Cress or Poison Heal kthx
Small set dump.
Bisharp (donor:scizor) @ Black Glasses
Ability: Technician
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Pursuit
- Bullet Punch
- Knock Off
- U-turn
Kind of a better scizor? Technician Pursuit punishes them whether they stay in or not. Tech Bullet Punch is obviously solid.
Rotom-Heat (donor:golem-a) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Magnet Pull
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Volt Switch
- Fire Blast
- Stealth Rock
- Focus Blast / Thunderbolt
Sets rocks, traps steels, has an actually good Fire stab.
Edit: Please ban Cress or Poison Heal kthx
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4 Atk Life Orb Pheromosa Megahorn vs. 240 HP / 252+ Def Cresselia: 283-335 (64.1 - 75.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
There's actually a weird amount of Pokemon that can donate Megahorn on top of other good movesets, and it hits absurdly hard enough that the lack of Attack investment doesn't matter. Other physical Bug-type moves can't do that, even with full investment. Between Roost and Poison Heal, Cress stalls out pretty much anything but Leech Life, and it OHKOs you with Psyshock, whereas Megahorn can one-shot non-Levitate Cress with Rocks and a single layer of Spikes.
EDIT: Well that just one-shots Cress after Rocks. Heracross, Nidoking, Absol, and Escavalier all provide Pheromosa with Megahorn, Close Combat/Superpower, and either massive coverage, extreme power, or both (in Nidoking's case). But really, when is it getting a suspect?
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If you want Megahorn on Phera I'd suggest Heracross. Guts + Flame Orb gives it insane power that also bypasses Unaware. You also get STAB Close Combat.
Bewear @ Life Orb
Ability: Hustle
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adament Nature
- Extreme Speed
- Drain Punch
- Roost
- Defog
The only thing it's teammate should do is to kill the foe's ghosts and set up stealth rock
252+ Atk Life Orb Hustle Bewear Extreme Speed vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Suicune: 242-286 (59.9 - 70.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Life Orb Hustle Bewear Extreme Speed vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Gyarados: 329-387 (83.5 - 98.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Life Orb Hustle Bewear Extreme Speed vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Garchomp: 282-333 (67.1 - 79.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Life Orb Hustle Bewear Drain Punch vs. 252 HP / 88+ Def Ferrothorn: 343-406 (97.4 - 115.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Life Orb Hustle Bewear Extreme Speed vs. 248 HP / 40+ Def Rotom-Heat: 224-265 (73.9 - 87.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
No more sucking pheromosa
252+ Atk Life Orb Hustle Bewear Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Pheromosa: 582-686 (205.6 - 242.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Also you can run band exspeed with trick
Ability: Hustle
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adament Nature
- Extreme Speed
- Drain Punch
- Roost
- Defog
The only thing it's teammate should do is to kill the foe's ghosts and set up stealth rock
252+ Atk Life Orb Hustle Bewear Extreme Speed vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Suicune: 242-286 (59.9 - 70.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Life Orb Hustle Bewear Extreme Speed vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Gyarados: 329-387 (83.5 - 98.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Life Orb Hustle Bewear Extreme Speed vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Garchomp: 282-333 (67.1 - 79.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Life Orb Hustle Bewear Drain Punch vs. 252 HP / 88+ Def Ferrothorn: 343-406 (97.4 - 115.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Life Orb Hustle Bewear Extreme Speed vs. 248 HP / 40+ Def Rotom-Heat: 224-265 (73.9 - 87.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
No more sucking pheromosa
252+ Atk Life Orb Hustle Bewear Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Pheromosa: 582-686 (205.6 - 242.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Also you can run band exspeed with trick
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The Official Glyx
Banned deucer.
scpinion are you still alive There's been a lot of chatter about people wanting Phero/Kartana and Kecleon as a donor banned as well as Ubers being unbanned as donors since there really was no justification behind that one. What might your thoughts on these be?
There's also been problems with people figuring out how to hide the donor tags, but that's more of a problem for The Immortal or whoever did the coding for the set reveals.
For anyone not familiar with the (hopefully) bug described above, there have been a handful of players that have either figured out how to prevent the reveal tags from displaying in battle, or conveniently have an account that somehow interferes with the tags. It has been determined that Illusion and Zoroark are NOT the cause of these problems.
There's also been problems with people figuring out how to hide the donor tags, but that's more of a problem for The Immortal or whoever did the coding for the set reveals.
For anyone not familiar with the (hopefully) bug described above, there have been a handful of players that have either figured out how to prevent the reveal tags from displaying in battle, or conveniently have an account that somehow interferes with the tags. It has been determined that Illusion and Zoroark are NOT the cause of these problems.
It's not people figuring out how to hide the donor tags, it's that for some reason locked players have their donor tags hidden. I'm locked (for having same ip as banned person) at the moment and my donor tags are hidden, and many of the top ladder players are locked as well.
The Official Glyx
Banned deucer.
huh.. that's odd
i dont know how this guy bypassed this system( or may be a bug)
but i cannot see the pokemon he has inherited from
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7inheritance-530258574
heatran drought and mold breaker weavile are 100% inherited
but i cannot see the pokemon he has inherited from
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7inheritance-530258574
heatran drought and mold breaker weavile are 100% inherited
On the subject of Ubers being banned, it 100% is justified. There are some Pokemon that make it in Ubers on the basis of their typing and BST, like Giratina, or Dialga. Then there are so many more that have incredibly broken moveset/Ability combinations and Inheritance has been far far far more balanced because of it than it was last generation.
Let's pretend for a minute that user X wants Blaziken because of the combination of Brave Bird and Stone Edge, and not Speed Boost. Because Toucannon exists, and it is a straight upgrade for that coverage over Blaziken, except for Speed Boost. Blaziken was broken with base 120 Attack, 110 SpA, and 80 Speed. What do you think Mega Metagross will do with HJK/Flare Blitz/filler/SD? What did we all SEE Water Spout Keldeo do before Ubers were rebanned? Did you ever face down Mega Pinsir carrying Dragon Dance, Extreme Speed, and V-Create? Ubers DO have broken movepools (alternately, Ho-oh on Mega Aero. It gets Brave Bird, EQ, AND Sacred Fire), and pretending that they don't is begging for a horribly broken metagame that we got away from.
An Ubers version of Inheritance might be something cool to play, but don't fuck up a good metagame that's getting a second chance.
Let's pretend for a minute that user X wants Blaziken because of the combination of Brave Bird and Stone Edge, and not Speed Boost. Because Toucannon exists, and it is a straight upgrade for that coverage over Blaziken, except for Speed Boost. Blaziken was broken with base 120 Attack, 110 SpA, and 80 Speed. What do you think Mega Metagross will do with HJK/Flare Blitz/filler/SD? What did we all SEE Water Spout Keldeo do before Ubers were rebanned? Did you ever face down Mega Pinsir carrying Dragon Dance, Extreme Speed, and V-Create? Ubers DO have broken movepools (alternately, Ho-oh on Mega Aero. It gets Brave Bird, EQ, AND Sacred Fire), and pretending that they don't is begging for a horribly broken metagame that we got away from.
An Ubers version of Inheritance might be something cool to play, but don't fuck up a good metagame that's getting a second chance.
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