Know Your Niche - Round 19 (see: page 12, post 279)

[Nuked]

Set:
Tyranitar @ Rockium Z
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 HP / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Stone Edge
- Crunch
- Superpower

Fini is a decent defensive Tyranitar check since it has the bulk necessary to take Stone Edges and actually usually beats it 1v1 taking into account Stone Edge misses and the likes, and Defogs hazards away or forces it out. This is especially true with Jolly Scarf variants of Tyranitar, since stone edge isn't even a 3HKO taking into account Leftovers recovery. This set works because Tyranitar is weak to both of Fini's STABs, and Fini discourages Crunch spamming early game.

+1 252+ Atk Tyranitar Continental Crush (180 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Tapu Fini: 322-381 (93.8 - 111%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO

0 SpA Tapu Fini Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Tyranitar in Sand: 132-156 (38.7 - 45.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

This means that this Tyranitar set beats Fini 1v1 since it has the bulk to take a Moonblast and has a very high chance to OHKO it at +1.

 

[mulgokizary]

FWIW, I'm giving these Z-Items because of the theme of the thread, but if anyone actually wants to use these then Life Orb is better on both of them. They really need the added power for their other attacks to do anything effective, and the OHKO isn't that important.

This one is just for fun, since Martin and I were talking about Kommo-o on Discord:

Kommo-o @ Poisonium-Z
Ability: Bulletproof
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Outrage
- Dragon Dance
- Brick Break
- Poison Jab

Just because you couldn't figure out a niche for it. Just spitballing here, but this thing has a lot of synergistic potential with Xard - not only does Z-Jab do massive dommage Fini after a DD, neutering it for Xard to sweep later, but it has tons of setup opportunities vs. most teams in the meta due to its resistances and at times its ability. What Xard and Kommo-o share in common is that they're both DDers that don't care about Ferrothorn at all, so they force in common checks, as opposed to more conventional DDers that haven't a way to hit Ferrothorn outside of Sky Strike and Fly (which Protect man handles). This one scares most steels incl. Tran and Ferro away due to its dual stabs and probably forces Fini in more than any other DDer I can think of. Definitely more unexpected than Sky Strike.

More standard one:

Pheromosa @ Poisonium-Z
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- High Jump Kick
- Poison Jab
- Ice Beam
- Rapid Spin

Just like the set that was posted on page 1, but with Rapid Spin over U-Turn, which is way better. Not much to say, just a solid partner for Xard, Tapu Fini likes to switch in on Pheromosa a lot. Also Rapid Spins rocks away for Xard and can sweep lategame if Xard breaks down the enemy team enough, since it appreciates Fini being worn down as much as Xard does. Everything on this set is self-explanatory.

Thanks for reading.

 

[Eclipse]

Buzzwole @ Poisonium Z
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 Atk / 136 SpD / 120 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Hammer Arm
- Poison Jab
- Ice Punch / Lunge
- Roost

Roost + 3 Attacks Buzzwole is a really dope set that partners very well with Zard-X; this specific variant is running Z-Poison Jab since you need to hit Fini on the switch with regular Poison Jab to take it out. This helps you ease prediction by, for example, Roosting on Fini's switch into Buzzwole so that you OHKO Fini as it attempts to clear Rocks from its own side of the field, for example. In addition to taking out Fini, Buzzwole also partners well with Zard-X due to its ability to handle Lando-T which Zard likes weakened in order to sweep. (Dont mind my ass EV spread pls, it can be fixed to your liking)

252+ Atk Buzzwole Poison Jab vs. 248 HP / 192 Def Tapu Fini: 152-180 (44.3 - 52.4%) -- 79.3% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

252+ Atk Buzzwole Acid Downpour (160 BP) vs. 248 HP / 192 Def Tapu Fini: 304-358 (88.6 - 104.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

 

[KingKdot]

Infernape @ Electrium Z
Ability: Iron Fist
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Close Combat
- Fire Punch / Flare Blitz
- Thunder Punch

Shoutouts Colonel M

A lot of the old Infernape checks from last generation, aka Latios and Slowbro, have gone missing, which leaves many teams relying on Tapu Fini and Landorus-T in order to take it on. Z-Thunder Punch allows Infernape to break Tapu Fini pretty effectively, taking a huge chunk out of its health even when unboosted and blowing straight through it at +2. It also helps a bit in getting Zard-X ready to clean up the mess afterwards, as Infernape is able to deal significant damage to Zard's other checks, such as Landorus-T.

252 Atk Iron Fist Infernape Thunder Punch vs. 248 HP / 192 Def Tapu Fini: 126-150 (36.7 - 43.7%) -- 99.4% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Infernape Gigavolt Havoc (140 BP) vs. 248 HP / 192 Def Tapu Fini: 196-232 (57.1 - 67.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252 Atk Infernape Gigavolt Havoc (140 BP) vs. 248 HP / 192 Def Tapu Fini: 392-462 (114.2 - 134.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO

This is my favorite set posted so far, but why not run poisinium (spelling?) z with gunk shot? You really don't even need an SD because any move you hit it with on the switch puts it in range of acid downpour. Even has a 35.7% chance to OHKO after rocks.

252 Atk Infernape Acid Downpour (190 BP) vs. 248 HP / 184 Def Tapu Fini: 270-318 (78.7 - 92.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

 

[Martin]

This is my favorite set posted so far, but why not run poisinium (spelling?) z with gunk shot? You really don't even need an SD because any move you hit it with on the switch puts it in range of acid downpour. Even has a 35.7% chance to OHKO after rocks.

252 Atk Infernape Acid Downpour (190 BP) vs. 248 HP / 184 Def Tapu Fini: 270-318 (78.7 - 92.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Electrium also hits Toxapex, making it better in practice.

 

[Random Passerby]

Wow, why is nobody posting this?

Keldeo @ Normalium Z
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hydro Pump
- Secret Sword
- Calm Mind
- Hyper Beam

Keldeo and Zard-X has good type synergy as Zard scares away the bulky Grass-types like Tangrowth while Keldeo threatens Landorus-T and Hippowdon. Both Keldeo and Zard-X share one counter: Tapu Fini which Keldeo can shave off about 70% at +1 or OHKO at +2 with Breakneck Blitz. This strategy also works against Toxapex. You can also force Tapu Fini to come in and take repeated hazard damage to achieve this easier.

 

[Martin]

I'm so happy that this project's reception was as good as it ended up being, so thanks a tonne for all the support!

Winners:

by Vertex

by TMan87

by Leooo_33

Reasoning for why some Pokemon weren't chosen

Electrium Latios is a good set, but we felt that Electrium is not very appealing when used alongside Defog as opposed to utilising a 3/4 attack variant alongside another Spin/Defog user.

Rockium Z Lando-T is an excellent set and allows it to deal with Fini with little trouble, but given that it already heavily pressures Tapu Fini due to its high unboosted firepower as is combined with Fini's neutrality to Earthquake.

Lets be real, people have been expecting Grassium Tran for ages at this point. It's still an excellent set, but it just has difficulty ensuring a final lure on Fini due to it really needing to be forced into a corner when it is being used as a Tran stop.

Poisonium Weavile isn't a very effective set in the current metagame, and SD+Groundium Garchomp makes better use of Garchomp's attributes than SR+Poisinium does whilst still achieving the lure due to it OHKOing at +2 Atk. Beyond this, same kind of deal as Rockium Lando-T.

Rockium Terrakion is a good set which achieves the lure successfully, but we were put off by the mention of Poisonium on the set. Furthermore, Terrakion pressures Tapu Fini heavily and generally prefers to bust its Rockium on Pokemon like Landorus-T.

Electrium Infernape's is hot, but sadly in practice it's pretty arse hahaha. NP+Bloom Doom is probably better for all intents and purposes here, although if the Z restriction were lifted then Gunk Shot would also do the job better (granted the submission of this set is in large part my fault due to the bad week design)

Poisonium Pheromosa is jank, and this is in large part my fault due to the poor designing of the week. There are better Tapu Fini lures, and sets like Quiver Dance+Z-Hyper Beam are generally better than this one for the purpose of luring stuff.

Rockium Tyranitar is incredibly creative and we loved the submission, but it was primarily turned down due to questioning with regards to the overall viability of Dragon Dance Tyranitar combined with the fact that neither of us really got a chance to try out the set during the week to test its viability. Big props though :D

I still stand by my statement that Kommo-o is not viable; funny set though hahaha. As for Phero, the set was already submitted with U-turn>Spin.

Poisonium Buzzwole sits in the same boat as some of the lures in that it was kinda forced by the theme, which is entirely my fault. As for the set, Lefties or LO is better, and I feel like you would've just submitted PJab had it have not been for the restriction.

Normalium Keldeo is overhyped to high heaven, and we felt that the other lures either provided more interest. This isn't to say it's bad per se, but when things like Grassium Ash Greninja are submitted alongside more consistent or interesting Z users that it simply didn't match up to them.

If your submission didn't win then don't be discouraged! Keep submitting and keeping this project fun!

Week 2 will be up in the next post.

 

[Martin]

Week 2: Find a Pokemon that can help a rain team break through some of the Pokemon that can give it a headache defensively.

Specific requirements

• The Pokemon must provide a way of dealing with (luring, breaking through, repeatedly checking, taking advantage of etc.) two or more of the following Pokemon:
  • Ferrothorn
  • Tapu Fini
  • Mega Venusaur
  • Assault Vest Tangrowth
  • Gastrodon
• The Pokemon must fit well onto a rain team; please provide reasoning for why you feel that your submission fits onto the playstyle in question.

Best of luck to everyone!

 

[quziel]

Ludicolo @ Life Orb
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Giga Drain
- Hydro Pump
- Focus Blast
- Ice Beam

Ludicolo is an excellent tech for rain teams that lets them easily beat the bulky waters that plague them, coming in on virtually every bulky water in the tier thanks to its typing, and easily forcing them out. Focus blast lets it easily 2HKO Ferrothorn (provided you can hit it), which can't even leech seed it back to recover.

While it may not have the sheer power of Kingdra's Draco Meteor, its much greater coverage, and occasionally better typing mean it can easily slot in over one of Rain's sweepers, and break down many of rain's walls.

Calcs:

Offensive:
252+ SpA Life Orb Ludicolo Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 168 SpD Ferrothorn: 221-263 (62.7 - 74.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ SpA Life Orb Ludicolo Giga Drain vs. 248 HP / 16+ SpD Tapu Fini: 198-234 (57.7 - 68.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ SpA Life Orb Ludicolo Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Tangrowth: 159-187 (39.3 - 46.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

Defensive:
0 SpA Tangrowth Giga Drain vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Ludicolo: 88-105 (29.2 - 34.8%) -- 8.6% chance to 3HKO

0 Atk Ferrothorn Power Whip vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Ludicolo: 165-195 (54.8 - 64.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

0 SpA Tapu Fini Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Ludicolo: 99-117 (32.8 - 38.8%) -- 99.3% chance to 3HKO

While it doesn't have the most longevity, thanks to poor bulk, it does have the ability to beat Ferrothorn and Tapu Fini very easily, and it basically just nullifies Gastrodon. While it can't swap in vs. AV growth that effectively, it does have the ability to 1v1 it in a pinch, as Ice Beam 3hkos.

 

[ethanlol]

Tornadus-Therian (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hurricane
- Focus Blast
- Taunt
- U-turn
Tornadus is a good partner for rain as it can eliminate the grass-typed threats that can switch into it's sweepers such as Kingdra and Kabutops. Tornadus also benefits from rain with 100% accurate Hurricanes. Tornadus is able to presssure water-typed threats such as Gastrodon and Tapu Fini with it's strong Hurricanes.

252 SpA Life Orb Tornadus-Therian Hurricane vs. 248 HP / 16+ SpD Tapu Fini: 149-177 (43.4 - 51.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Tornadus-Therian Hurricane vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Gastrodon: 243-289 (57 - 67.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Tornadus-Therian Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 168 SpD Ferrothorn: 231-273 (65.6 - 77.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

 

[Leo]

Reserving Protean Gren aka the rain tech

Greninja @ Life Orb
Ability: Protean
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Low Kick
- Gunk Shot
- Extrasensory
- Ice Beam

At first Greninja doen's seem like the best pick for a rain team. It doesn't benefit much from the rain and doesn't provide any defensive synergy. However, this set aims to trick your opponent into thinking this is Ash-Gren rain (which kinda makes more sense and has seen some usage) early game and then use this to lure your opp's rain checks such as Tapu Fini, Ferrothorn, Tangrowth, Venusaur, Amoongus or even some emergency Water-resists such as the rare Kyurem-B or Keldeo and either KO them or put them in range of your rain sweepers' attacks. This set needs to be played aggresively while trying to bluff the Ash Gren with double switches.

calcs

4 Atk Life Orb Protean Greninja Gunk Shot vs. 252 HP / 176 Def Tapu Fini: 244-291 (70.9 - 84.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
4 Atk Life Orb Protean Greninja Low Kick (100 BP) vs. 252 HP / 88+ Def Ferrothorn: 182-218 (51.7 - 61.9%) -- 96.5% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Protean Greninja Extrasensory vs. 232 HP / 4 SpD Venusaur-Mega: 244-291 (67.9 - 81%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
4 Atk Life Orb Protean Greninja Gunk Shot vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Tangrowth: 265-315 (65.5 - 77.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Protean Greninja Ice Beam vs. 248 HP / 92 SpD Amoonguss: 351-416 (81.4 - 96.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery

 

[Colonel M]

Omastar @ Waterium Z
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Shell Smash
- Hydro Pump
- Substitute
- Ancient Power

Shell Smash Omastar is a rather large threat. It can lure in and obliterate everything listed within the requirements that Martin asked for Rain teams to bypass barring Gastrodon. A +2 Hydro Vortex in the rain drowns everything listed with Stealth Rock on the field. To compare the sheer brutality of the set - it does 73% minimum to 4 HP / 252 SpD Eviolite Chansey - which is rather impressive for a neutral attack. Ancient Power helps Omastar be less vulnerable to Zard Y - a Pokemon that halts Rain Dance teams drenching the opponent.

Omastar fits well in Rain teams as Swift Swim boosts Omastar's Speed to rather respectable levels - beyond that of Modest Pheromosa. Furthermore, Omastar's capability of breaking through difficult Pokemon after a Shell Smash and Hydro Vortex make it a very difficult Pokemon to switch into easily. This Pokemon pairs well with Ash-Greninja as a breaker.

Example calculations of bypassing threats:

+2 252+ SpA Omastar Hydro Vortex (185 BP) vs. 232 HP / 80 SpD Mega Venusaur in Rain: 363-428 (101.1 - 119.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ SpA Omastar Hydro Vortex (185 BP) vs. 252 HP / 168 SpD Ferrothorn in Rain: 346-408 (98.2 - 115.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252+ SpA Omastar Hydro Vortex (185 BP) vs. 252 HP / 16 SpD Tapu Fini in Rain: 357-421 (103.7 - 122.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Example of a threat it doesn't quite cover:

Omastar Hydro Vortex (185 BP) vs. Storm Drain Gastrodon: 0-0 (0 - 0%) -- aim for the horn next time

 

[Ema Skye]

Pheromosa @ Fightinium Z / Focus Sash
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 224 SpA / 32 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Quiver Dance
- Bug Buzz
- Focus Blast
- Ice Beam

Pheromosa has solid synergy with Pelipper. Slow U-Turns bring in Pheromosa risk-free, and Pelipper can Defog if you opt for Focus Sash. The requirement that it must fit well into a rain team is rather vague. While Mosa is certainly not a rain abuser (akin to something like a Swift Swimmer), and I don't want to claim that it is, Mosa is helpful with its ability to eliminate the common rain counters, which can faciliate a sweep for something like Kingdra. Rain offense generally fits the offensive nature that Pheromosa excels in.

Relevant Calcs:
224+ SpA Pheromosa Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 168 SpD Ferrothorn: 336-396 (95.4 - 112.5%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO (go for the Z-move if you don't want to miss)
+1 224+ SpA Pheromosa Bug Buzz vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Tangrowth: 356-422 (88.1 - 104.4%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO
+1 224+ SpA Pheromosa All-Out Pummeling (190 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Gastrodon: 612-720 (143.6 - 169%) -- guaranteed OHKO

+1 Pummeling does around 60% to Fini so at the very least you can put enough pressure on it throughout the match where Phero can take the rest off.

 

[Martin]

The requirement that it must fit well into a rain team is rather vague

This is why the statement about justifying why it works on rain was in there. We understand it's kinda vague, but it's more just looking at the playstyle and seeing what kinds of things provide something for a typical team within said archetype/sub-archetype.

 

[Anish]

Greninja @ Choice Specs
Ability: Battle Bond
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Dark Pulse
- Water Shuriken
- Ice Beam / U turn

Ash Greninja hits like a monster in rain, with boosted Water Shurikens OHKOing certain faster mons who would outspeed it, and rain boosted pumps being insanely difficult to switch into. It manages to lure Tangrowth and Amoonguss with Ice Beam, and heavily weaken rain checks without reliable recovery like Fini and M Venu ( rain hurts synthesis). If it gets an ash form its even harder to switch into, though he generally could prevent the transformation if he has a solid enough check ( though this isnt super easy since a lot of traditional B Bond Ninja checks can get heavily weakened if in rain ). It works as a secondary rain abuser alongside Kingdra, since it can weaken Fini + Mega Venu or even a primary abuser on certain rain teams. It does need to be paired with a decent way to force out or lure Gastrodon, and a way to lure Ferro / prevent its Leech and force it out like your own Knock Off Ferro.

Wall of Calcs

252 SpA Choice Specs Greninja Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Tangrowth: 180-214 (44.5 - 52.9%) -- 26.6% chance to 2HKO

252 SpA Choice Specs Greninja Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Tangrowth: 180-214 (44.5 - 52.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

252 SpA Choice Specs Greninja Ice Beam vs. 248 HP / 216+ SpD Amoonguss: 214-254 (49.6 - 58.9%) -- 73.4% chance to 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery

252 SpA Choice Specs Greninja-Ash Water Shuriken (20 BP) (3 hits) vs. 4 HP / 0- SpD Garchomp in Rain: 324-381 (90.5 - 106.4%) -- approx. 25% chance to OHKO

252 SpA Choice Specs Greninja-Ash Water Shuriken (20 BP) (3 hits) vs. 4 HP / 0- SpD Garchomp in Rain: 324-381 (90.5 - 106.4%) -- approx. 87.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

252 SpA Choice Specs Greninja-Ash Water Shuriken (20 BP) (3 hits) vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Garchomp in Rain: 288-342 (80.4 - 95.5%) -- approx. 6.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

252 SpA Choice Specs Greninja-Ash Hydro Pump vs. 4 HP / 252 SpD Eviolite Chansey in Rain: 234-276 (36.4 - 42.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock

252 SpA Choice Specs Greninja-Ash Hydro Pump vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Tapu Fini in Rain: 182-214 (53 - 62.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 SpA Choice Specs Greninja-Ash Water Shuriken (20 BP) (3 hits) vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Tapu Bulu in Rain: 132-156 (46.8 - 55.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Grassy Terrain recovery

252 SpA Choice Specs Greninja-Ash Hydro Pump vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Tapu Bulu in Rain: 238-281 (84.3 - 99.6%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

252 SpA Choice Specs Greninja Hydro Pump vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Tapu Fini in Rain: 137-162 (39.9 - 47.2%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

252 SpA Choice Specs Greninja Hydro Pump vs. 232 HP / 80 SpD Venusaur-Mega in Rain: 137-162 (38.1 - 45.1%) -- 6.6% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

252 SpA Choice Specs Greninja Dark Pulse vs. 232 HP / 80 SpD Venusaur-Mega: 133-157 (37 - 43.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock

252 SpA Choice Specs Greninja-Ash Hydro Pump vs. 232 HP / 80 SpD Venusaur-Mega in Rain: 182-214 (50.6 - 59.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 SpA Choice Specs Greninja-Ash Hydro Pump vs. 248 HP / 216+ SpD Amoonguss in Rain: 195-230 (45.2 - 53.3%) -- 91.8% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery

252 SpA Choice Specs Greninja-Ash Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 168 SpD Ferrothorn: 169-199 (48 - 56.5%) -- 32.4% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 SpA Choice Specs Greninja-Ash Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 168 SpD Ferrothorn: 169-199 (48 - 56.5%) -- 88.3% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

252 SpA Choice Specs Greninja-Ash Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 168 SpD Ferrothorn in Rain: 174-204 (49.4 - 57.9%) -- 97.7% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

252 SpA Choice Specs Greninja-Ash Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 168 SpD Ferrothorn in Rain: 174-204 (49.4 - 57.9%) -- 61.3% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 SpA Choice Specs Greninja Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 168 SpD Ferrothorn in Rain: 131-155 (37.2 - 44%) -- 99.9% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 SpA Choice Specs Greninja Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 168 SpD Ferrothorn: 127-151 (36 - 42.8%) -- 94.9% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 SpA Choice Specs Greninja-Ash Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Tangrowth in Rain: 165-194 (40.8 - 48%) -- 64.5% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

252 SpA Choice Specs Greninja-Ash Water Shuriken (20 BP) (3 hits) vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Keldeo in Rain: 138-162 (42.7 - 50.1%) -- approx. 34.4% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

252 SpA Choice Specs Greninja-Ash Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Keldeo in Rain: 249-293 (77 - 90.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 SpA Choice Specs Greninja Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Keldeo in Rain: 187-221 (57.8 - 68.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

 

[GnralLao]

Kabutops @ Life Orb
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Waterfall
- Stone Edge
- Low Kick

Kabutops fits nicely into rain teams as it's the only physically based Swift Swimmer that's viable in OU (RIP Mega Pert), making it a nice partner to Kingdra for wearing down shared checks and counters (and, of course, to the mandatory Pelipper). After a Swords Dance, Kabutops is able to KO most of the targeted mons (especially late game, when said mons are worn down by SR and Kabutops' teammates), but it still fares badly against Gastrodon, which is mostly 3HKOed after SR at +2 (and that's without considering Stone Edge's shaky accuracy). In Ferrothorn's case, since it resists both of Kabutops' STAB moves, Kabutops can lure Ferrothorn, setup a Swords Dance as it switches into the field, and OHKO Ferrothorn with Low Kick. What's more, is that those threats are slow enough to be outsped by Kabutops without the presence of rain! The only tricky part of sweeping with Kabutops is to actually find the time to setup, but it can be achieved when facing certain Fire-type or defensive mons that can' touch Kabutops.

Calcs

+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Kabutops Low Kick (100 BP) vs. 252 HP / 88+ Def Ferrothorn: 382-452 (108.5 - 128.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Kabutops Stone Edge vs. 248 HP / 192 Def Tapu Fini: 321-380 (93.5 - 110.7%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO (guaranteed OHKO after SR)
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Kabutops Stone Edge vs. 232 HP / 180+ Def Venusaur-Mega: 281-331 (78.2 - 92.2%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Kabutops Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Tangrowth: 352-415 (87.1 - 102.7%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

 

[KingKdot]

Ok sorry this took so long but here we go.

Scolipede @ Waterium Z
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Megahorn
- Poison Jab
- Aqua Tail
- Swords Dance

So this is the Scolipede set that CBB first made on that team Axel10 used in SPL. That team used it to lure zard X, but it's also really sick on rain (I'm not the first one to use it). It can take advantage of mons like Fini and AV Tang that are very annoying for rain and use them as set up. Here are some relevant calcs.

Fini - sets up SD and OHKOS at +2
0 SpA Tapu Fini Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Scolipede: 66-78 (25.2 - 29.8%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
+2 252+ Atk Scolipede Poison Jab vs. 248 HP / 192 Def Tapu Fini: 360-426 (104.9 - 124.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Tangrowth - rain weakens HP fire, Scoli sets up on it and megahorn blows it back
0 SpA Tangrowth Hidden Power Fire vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Scolipede in Rain: 62-74 (23.7 - 28.3%) -- 89.3% chance to 4HKO
252+ Atk Scolipede Megahorn vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Tangrowth: 296-350 (73.2 - 86.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252+ Atk Scolipede Megahorn vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Tangrowth: 590-696 (146 - 172.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Mega Venu (defensive) - rain weakens HP fire, scoli sets up an SD
0 SpA Venusaur-Mega Hidden Power Fire vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Scolipede in Rain: 68-82 (26 - 31.4%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
0 SpA Venusaur-Mega Sludge Bomb vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Scolipede: 77-91 (29.5 - 34.8%) -- 12.4% chance to 3HKO
+2 252+ Atk Scolipede Megahorn vs. 232 HP / 180+ Def Venusaur-Mega: 237-279 (66 - 77.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Gastrodon - dont even think they run this much Def now because spDef is better, but +2 megahorn still has a very good chance to OHKO ORAS Curse set without rocks
+2 252+ Atk Scolipede Megahorn vs. 252 HP / 112 Def Gastrodon: 423-498 (99.2 - 116.9%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO

Ferrothorn - gyro does a lot but doesn't OHKO even with speed boosts, +2 megahorn puts ferro in kingdra range
0 Atk Ferrothorn Gyro Ball (150 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Scolipede: 169-199 (64.7 - 76.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252+ Atk Scolipede Megahorn vs. 252 HP / 88+ Def Ferrothorn: 240-283 (68.1 - 80.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery



Ok so that covers the mons in the post for the week. Kingdra + Koko + Scoli is really nice because Koko can Uturn on the switch to Venu/Tang and give Scoli setup. Scoli fits better than some of the other mons in the thread because it can actually break the rain checks. Good players aren't going to leave Fini/Tang/Venu/whatever in vs stuff like Pinsir against rain when they have LandoT/Celesteela in the back. The difference with scolipede is that because of hydro vortex it can also break through these pokemon after an SD. BTW hydro vortex also benefits from the rain boost which is very nice.

+2 252+ Atk Scolipede Hydro Vortex (175 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Celesteela in Rain: 507-597 (127.3 - 150%) -- guaranteed OHKO (rain weakens Celesteela's flamethrower so it isn't even a 2HKO).

-1 252+ Atk Scolipede Hydro Vortex (175 BP) vs. 252 HP / 216+ Def Landorus-Therian in Rain: 276-326 (72.2 - 85.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (even without an SD you only need a little chip).

Another beauty of scolipede is that because of speed boost it is very hard to revenge, even with scarfers, so a lot of the time it's over after an SD while other breakers are easy to revenge after sacing a mon that isn't useful vs rain/low on HP.

Yeah so I'm not taking credit for this but Scoli is really good on rain.

 

[Nuked]

Pinsir @ Pinsirite
Ability: Hyper Cutter
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 HP / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
IVs: 0 SpA
- Swords Dance
- Return
- Quick Attack
- Close Combat

Whether or not Pinsir fits on rain is kind of rocky. I would argue that it's one of the best offensive answers to Pokemon like Tangrowth and Mega Venusaur, and if it gets an SD up then all 5 of the listed Pokemon are clean OHKOed. If rain isn't up, it acts as a very strong wallbreaker that very few things can switch into and if it gets an SD up it can act as a solid late-game wincon. In the context of a rain team, getting SDs up isn't too hard because it sets up on Tangrowth and Mega Venusaur and proceeds to blow holes.

Calcs:

252 Atk Aerilate Pinsir-Mega Return vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Tangrowth: 374-444 (92.5 - 109.9%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO

252 Atk Aerilate Pinsir-Mega Return vs. 232 HP / 180+ Def Venusaur-Mega: 300-354 (83.5 - 98.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

+2 252 Atk Aerilate Pinsir-Mega Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gastrodon: 415-489 (97.4 - 114.7%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO

+2 252 Atk Aerilate Pinsir-Mega Return vs. 248 HP / 192 Def Tapu Fini: 340-402 (99.1 - 117.2%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO

+2 252 Atk Pinsir-Mega Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 88+ Def Ferrothorn: 400-472 (113.6 - 134%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Again i was a little hesitant to post this because I didn't know if Pinsir fit on rain but it breaks holes in the defensive cores that rain struggles to take down which is why I thought it was a solid nomination.

 

[michaeloche]

Manaphy @ Leftovers / Wacan Berry
Ability: Hydration
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Tail Glow
- Surf
- Ice Beam
- Energy Ball

TG+3 attacks Manaphy is able to take out Fini and Gastro with Energy Ball and the three grass mons don't like Ice Beam that much, especially if it's at +3, which is not hard to do. It also fits on rain nicely because STAB Surf.

Side note, where can I find animated models for SuMo mons?

 

[Windgrace]

Amoonguss @ Black Sludge
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 248 HP / 44 Def / 216 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Giga Drain
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Spore
- Sludge Bomb

Amoonguss is an incredibly reliable counter/check on Tapu Fini, Ferrothorn and Gastrodon. Thanks to a combination of its typing, Black Sludge, and its ability Regenerator, Amoonguss come in repeatedly on all of these threats. It's typing resists both of Tapu Fini's commonly used STABs, most notably Scald/Moonblast coverage. Additionally, it can fire off its own STAB moves in the form of Giga Drain and Sludge Bomb in retaliation, both of which are super effective versus Tapu Fini. Amoonguss can also come in relatively reliably on Ferrothorn and pressure it with a x4 effective Hidden Power Fire. Amoonguss is immune to Leech Seed and resists Power Whip, two of the most commonly used moves on Ferrothorn. Furthermore, it can comfortably switch into Gastrodon as it resists Scald, takes very low damage from an uninvested Earthquake, is immune to Toxic thanks to its part Poison typing, and can respond with x4 effective Giga Drain to regain lost HP.

In terms of fitting in on a rain team Amoonguss is a natural as it has ready access to Spore, which provides a ton of utility to a team by incapacitating opposing threats making way for potential sweepers. The effect of rain reducing Fire damage is a huge boon for Amoonguss, whose Grass typing appreciates the temporary nullification of one of its weaknesses.

 

[Duck Chris]

celesteela

Celesteela @ Leftovers / Flyinium Z / Firium Z
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
- Leech Seed
- Substitute
- Protect / Fire Blast
- Air Slash

Celesteela is mainly a check for the two water types, but helps against grass as well. Sub Seed Celesteela is a set that isn't used too much, but against stuff like Tapu Fini it gets a lot of chances to set up seeds, and Substitute and Protect can both be great at making it's recovery more reliable. Air slash prevents grass types from switching in for free, such as Venusaur, Tangrowth, or others such as Tapu Bulu.

Fire Blast is also an option to catch ferrothorn off guard, though it won't be very powerful in rain. Firium Z could help patch that up but in most cases you're better off using Air Slash + Flyinium Z. EVs are max spDef, but more speed could be used if you want to sub up on something specific.

This thing is truly terrifying: never dies and whittles everything. Try it out!

 

[yandaud]

Ferrothorn @ Leftovers
Ability: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 HP / 88 Def / 168 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Spikes
- Power Whip
- Gyro Ball
- Leech Seed

With rain up Ferrothorn takes advantage of every pokemon on this list by setting up Spikes on them with relative impunity, as well as some electric and dragon types, making them easier to break. The stabs hit water types and dragon types mostly especially those that might try to remove your hazard (Tapu Fini, Latios, Excadrill, Starmie). Leech Seed should be used if you would rather not set up Spikes but stay healthy.

It fits well on a rain team for the defensive synergy and hazard support it provides.

 

[feel da rain]

Volcarona @ Flynium-Z
Ability: Flame Body
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
IVs: 0 Atk
Timid Nature
- Quiver Dance
- Fire Blast
- Giga Drain
- Hurricane

This is a rather unorthodox set which functions surprisingly well in rain teams. Zamrock used it recently in his SPL match, using an offensive Pelipper along with the Z-Hurricane set. It allows you to knock out Gastrodon, Ferrothorn (when rain is not up), Mega Venusaur, and AV Tangrowth (with +1 Supersonic Skystrike) but faces some trouble knocking our Tapu Fini (which is 2HKOed by +1 Giga Drain). The set in general manages to wear down threats like grass types and powerful special walls which Kingdra wants gone so that it can sweep with Surf/Hydro Miss. It fits very well on a rain team, in my opinion, with Hurricane gaining an 100% accuracy under rain, allowing you to dish out powerful-bird-spam-damage without worrying for the miss, even if the Z-Move has been previously used.
Another thing which I would like to mention is that AV Magearna and Chansey are also problems for rain teams (unless you are running Kabutops for the latter, or Knock Off+ Superpower Lando-T). This Thundurus set appears to be dealing with these two aforementioned threats quite well.

Thundurus @ life Orb
Ability: Defiant
EVs: 68 Atk / 188 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Knock Off
- Thunder
- Superpower
- Hidden Power [Ice]

It can knock off the AV from Magearna and then deal 40-50% with Thunder. It can also Knock off the Eviolite from Chansey and then proceed to use Superpower. Not many people expect this.

Notable Calcs for Volcarona:

+1 252 SpA Volcarona Giga Drain vs. 248 HP / 16+ SpD Tapu Fini: 180-214 (52.4 - 62.3%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Volcarona Supersonic Skystrike (185 BP) vs. 232 HP / 80 SpD Venusaur: 382-450 (106.4 - 125.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+1 252 SpA Volcarona Supersonic Skystrike (185 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Tangrowth: 448-528 (110.8 - 130.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+1 252 SpA Volcarona Giga Drain vs. 248 HP / 108+ SpD Gastrodon: 476-564 (112 - 132.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+1 252 SpA Volcarona Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 168 SpD Ferrothorn in Rain: 420-496 (119.3 - 140.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO

A notable negative for the Volcarona set is the inability to touch Heatran.

Edits: Added the Gastrodon calc, the Volcarona sprite (for visual purposes) and the notable negative.
Edits (#2): Added the Ferrothorn calc and performed some adjustments to the Tapu Fini calc

 

[TMan87]

Thundurus-Therian (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Volt Absorb
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nasty Plot
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Focus Blast

Being immune to Electric while resistant to Grass are qualities one could look for in a rain team, and it just happens that Thundurus-T has those.
It threatens Tapu Fini with its Electric STAB, having a 25% chance to OHKO even without SR. Should the fish girl thingy flee, it can setup with Nasty Plot and wallbreak to open holes for teammates to clean. Ferrothorn is blown back by Focus Blast (does 80% min to standard variants, provided it doesn't miss).
Venusaur and AV Tangrowth are more annoying, since they can tank any attack (even at +2) and Knock Off the LO/attack with Sludge Bomb, respectively. The former can even gain health back with Regenerator.
Gastrodon is pretty unfazed by this version of Thundy-T, even though +2 Focus Blast hurts. However, Grass Knot is also an option to lure Gastrodon.
Thunder can be used in place of TBolt, but it lessens its efficiency outside of rain, so be wary.

Some calcs

252 SpA Life Orb Thundurus-Therian Thunderbolt vs. 248 HP / 16+ SpD Tapu Fini: 299-354 (87.1 - 103.2%) -- 25% chance to OHKO

252 SpA Life Orb Thundurus-Therian Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 168 SpD Ferrothorn: 281-333 (79.8 - 94.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

+2 252 SpA Life Orb Thundurus-Therian Focus Blast vs. 248 HP / 108+ SpD Gastrodon: 348-411 (81.8 - 96.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Thundurus-Therian Grass Knot (60 BP) vs. 248 HP / 108+ SpD Gastrodon: 354-416 (83.2 - 97.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

 

[Morningstar]

Okay I might not had as much of a grasp as I thought but this time I think I have a few ideas.

Swanna @ Life Orb / Expert Belt
Ability: Hydration
Moves:
- Roost
- Hurricane
- Ice Beam / Surf / Scald
- Toxic / Defog
Nature and EVs: 252 Spe and SpA. 4 HP. Timid

My reasoning: How it works on rain:

• Swanna is one of the few pokemon to learn the Move Hurricane. A Flying-type version of Thunder complete with the ability to bypass accuracy checks
• The Hidden Ability is Hydration which while its not as good as Swift Swim, is capable of removing status such as Poison

What pokemon did I pick this for:

• Ferrothorn is out for a KO because its one weakness gets nerfed by the rain, and It can use Stealth Rocks (though I have a feeling so does most of the pokemon on this list). And neither of Swanna's STAB would hit Fini's weaknesses.
  
• Mega Venusaur however has both a Flying and Ice weakness, so it does hit super effectively. Same applies to tangrowth, but the Assault vest gives it certain problems.
• Gastrodon however is part ground, that means Swanna resists one of Gastrodon's STABs, is immune to the other and Gastrodon has an Flying weakness. The catch is that Gastrodon with Storm Drain is also immune to Water attacks.
  
• Overall this means it has the best match ups against Tangrowth and Venusaur, and could at least chip off some off Gastrodon.

Item and Stat choices:

• Life Orb boosts every attack but takes HP, something that can be mitigated with Roost. While Expert Belt works as a limited version for if you already have a Life Orb user or are dedicated to specializing Swanna to be a stallbreaker for the grass or ground type pokemon.
• Swanna is a pokemon with no stat at 100 or above, Its highest stats are Speed with lousy bulk and its offenses are 87. So maximizing speed and special attack would be ideal. Despite this its frailty means that I don't think tailwind would be useful unless you have another pokemon that can use it (like Pelliper)

Pros and Cons:

• It resists grass and water attacks, as well as being immune to ground, but it would have a Rock weakness, so its likely to come in with 75% of its health left unless another pokemon can remove the rocks.
• If you prefer ease of access to rain than you would be likely using Peliper, which means that Swanna would add a redundancy in type matchups and that any pokemon that can KO your rain setter (like say Tapu Koko) can stop Swanna more easily
• Its bulk leaves a lot to be desired, with its defenses being the lowest. That is also why speed is important as it would be likely tacking stealth rocks and whatever electric attack your opponent brought in to abuse the rain, meaning every hit counts.
• No Hydro Pump...not that it would had helped since everyone on the list resists water anyway. The movepool is shallower in other aspects as well leaving only Toxic and Ice Beam for attempting to damage those that resist water and flying.

Calcs:

• 252 SpA Life Orb Swanna Hurricane vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Tangrowth: 260-307 (64.3 - 75.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
• 252 SpA Life Orb Swanna Hurricane vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Gastrodon: 211-250 (49.5 - 58.6%) -- 67.2% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
• 252 SpA Life Orb Swanna Hurricane vs. 232 HP / 80 SpD Venusaur: 330-390 (91.9 - 108.6%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO
• Tapu Fini and Ferrothorn would only be 3HKO'd by Hurricane

Also If I may I would like to reserve Pelliper for later. I think that A similar (but slower) set might be more viable on it. NVM, after checking the calcs and the BSTs I'd think it'd be a little worse (though still doable)