BH Balanced Hackmons

[GmU pokeboss9]

This is not a suspect thread;
Whenever somebody uses something which works well, they cry for suspect test.

Do you guys think calling for bans will give you respect ?
I guess so otherwise you would not do it...

Arceus @ Safety Goggles
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Boomburst
- Moongeist Beam
- Quiver Dance
- Shore Up

A similar Arceus set cost me Nr.1 on ladder. Unaware Arceus is a beast immo.
I recommend a +Def nature;

252+ SpA Kyogre-Primal Steam Eruption vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Arceus: 177-208 (39.8 - 46.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk Regigigas Facade (140 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Arceus: 186-220 (41.8 - 49.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk Mewtwo-Mega-X Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Arceus: 366-432 (82.4 - 97.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Groudon-Primal V-create vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Arceus in Harsh Sunshine: 393-463 (88.5 - 104.2%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO

Avoids many key 2HKOs and 1HKOs with max EVs.
I want to use myself, but it does not fit on my current team, maybe on a future one.

 

[ih8ih8sn0w]

Hey, so posting here for a few reasons...

First off: The things that I said earlier today/yesterday were proven false because I fucked up (this is regarding manual stat input in-game, everything is recalculated in the in-game battle).

Secondly: Core Enforcer breaks the ability when attacking a sub, regardless of if the sub is broken or not.

Finally: I may be hosting a fork of the current damage calc, but for BH sets some time soon (this is something that I have been using locally for a couple of weeks now because of a few reasons). I would like to populate it with more sets before considering a release though, and maybe actually attempt to implement something new. I would also like to see how interested people are in as well before attempting to get something usable to the public.

If anyone is interested in what I have changed/added so far... Primal names to Primal-Groudon/Kyogre (opposed to Groudon/Kyogre-Primal), Removed the "hardcoded" weather abilities so that any ability from a set will actually appear, removed the excessive amount of sets, and added Zygarde-C. Currently, 32 sets exist (and 6 meme/basically useless sets. 2 of the 32 sets are IO, so they may disappear soon).

 

[morogrim]

Secondly: Core Enforcer breaks the ability when attacking a sub, regardless of if the sub is broken or not.

Proof pls? That doesn't make sense >_>

 

[motherlove]

Proof pls? That doesn't make sense >_>

At around the 20:00 mark.

I agree thought, it doesn't make sense. God forbid there is counterplay to core enforcer.

 

[ih8ih8sn0w]

At around the 20:00 mark.

I agree thought, it doesn't make sense. God forbid there is counterplay to core enforcer.

Proof pls? That doesn't make sense >_>

Kinda forgot to link that video, but I tested it myself because even that as proof seemed off.

 

[SadisticMystic]

Moongeist Beam is the go-to Ghost move now, with no drawbacks other than perhaps PP.

 

[AbuseroftheBroken]

After being inactive in the BH scene for a while (for obvious reasons), I came back after WB was banned since that definitely was a step in the right direction and made the meta playable again. I was able to play both before the EV limit removal and after it, and I wanted to share my opinions on the matter (spoiler alert: I'm a prophet and a half):

- APS

After the WB ban, this would have been imo the next biggest suspect for gen7. However, after the EV limit was removed I feel like APS in general received a huge indirect nerf. This is mainly due to the fact that many walls and even some bulky offensive mons now survive things that they wouldn't have with the 510 EV limit. Take the general walls for example: even a dedicated physical wall like FC Giratina can now act as a special sponge in a pinch thanks to its amazing mixed bulk and the extra 252 EVs in SpD. As a result, I don't see APS being banworthy anymore.

- Innards Out

I'll keep it short here since I will be discussing my opinions on IO on the IO suspect thread. The main reason why IO is not competitive imo is the fact that it has way too much reward for minimal effort or skill (much like CFZ spam which was banned). In the hands of any half-decent player, IO can net a key KO which can allow their sweeper to defeat the opponent's team. What's more is that it doesn't even require any big plays for it to happen: the IO user just needs to get a prediction right one time. Just one switch into a key wall that is using a physical move (such as U-turn) and boom, you can now start to sweep. Note that there is a big emphasis here on IO being able to net a key KO which alongside its low risk/drawback quality make it a far superior choice when you compare to similar abilities that have similar effects. Again, I won't go into too much detail here since I will be posting on the IO thread, but imo IO should be qb'd.

- Zygarde-c

I still stand by what I said earlier, Zygarde is one of the few mons that has forced many offensive threats in the meta to run Ice coverage just because of its existence. In fact, in many cases, having Ice coverage is probably not the most optimal choice in terms of coverage for these offensive mons (take Pdon for example which runs Ice coverage most of the time atm). The mere possibility of the opponent team having a Zygarde in it has forced many players to go out of their way to add Ice coverage into the movesets of their wallbreakers and sweepers. If you ask me, that sounds very centralizing. I think that Zygarde-c should be suspected.

- Pdon and Pgre

They were banworthy with the EV limitation, I could only imagine how good they are now. The EV limit removal has been a huge indirect buff to both of these mons. Pgre is probably the best PH sweeper atm, (yes, even better than Regigigas imo just due to being able to have perfect coverage while still being Imposter proof) being able to be defensively invested while also having full investment in SpA, SpD, and Spe! This means that this thing has physical bulk while still hitting like a truck, being able to outspeed MMY at +1, AND still having colossal special bulk. This is while Pdon is....well Pdon. You can literally slap pretty much any set on that thing and it'll still be pretty damn good. Ban these two already (or don't, I love abusing Pgre).

1) I agree with you in this case, APS isn't broken in the slightest anymore. In fact, I have found that teams with choiced wallbreakers and a poison heal sweeper(s) are the most common and successful in the meta atm. APS is far less used in upper ladder than it used to be.

2) I agree with you on this as well, IO must be banned, its stupid easy to use and requires little to no skill for high gain. "LuL let me switch my explosive chansey to kill that Regenvest Solgaleo on its U-turn. LuL Now i sweep with specs MMY derrr."

3) I personally see no problem with Zygarde-C, and never had a problem with it. It is usually an easy 2hko for any choiced mon with high attack power, such as Specs Aerilate Rayquaza-M and Specs Psychic Surge MMY. Personally, I have a much larger problem with RegenVest Solgaleo ;p.

4) I don't have a strong opinion on either. I have had problems with Banded Tinted Lens/Adaptability/Stakeout Pdon, but that is more than likely bad teambuilding on my part. Pogre has never swept me with Poison Heal, but it has been a pain in my ass with its RegenVest/Fur Coat sets. Neither felt unbeatable or broken, and my most successful teams don't even use either.

Btw, completely my opinion on the matter. If anyone wants to chime in on current suspects, feel free. :)

 

[Kadabrium]

Normal-type setup sweepers are only now an antimeta thing because people are perceiving spectral thief as outclassing most other forms of boost removal. In previous gens there was no such distinction and people used haze/topsyturvy/heartswap just fine.

 

[E4 Flint]

Congrats RNGIsCancer Funbot28 motherlove Silver_Lucario42, your teams have been added to the sample team vault!

 

[RNGIsFatal]

Many people started complaining about Primals being broken after EV limit removal.

I understand their stats are absurdly high, but there are many checks, just like this thing checks most Primal Groudon variants:

Golisopod @ Waterium Z
Ability: Primordial Sea
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Liquidation
- Spectral Thief
- Recover
- U-turn

Guzma Golisopod has a unique typing that allows it to take plenty of Thousand Arrows with 140 defense stat. Also this thing's mixed bulk, although not stellar, is decent due to Water typing giving many resistances.

You can run plenty of support moves: Stealth Rock, Core Enforcer, Leech Seed, Rapid Spin / Defog, First Impression, etc.

In my case, I gave it Waterium Z instead of Leftovers and Safety Goggles to block Trick, because my own Primal Groudon has Switcheroo which means my Golisopod has to block a Switcheroo from the Imposter as well.

Darkium Z with Parting Shot also works but don't you think STAB U-turn from base attack 125 is also worth?

...

Back to my set, Hydro Vortex hits like a truck (or at least hard) with Primordial Sea:

Hydro Vortex Calcs

252 Atk Golisopod Hydro Vortex (160 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Mewtwo-Mega-X in Heavy Rain: 301-355 (72.3 - 85.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 Atk Golisopod Hydro Vortex (160 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Mewtwo-Mega-Y in Heavy Rain: 378-445 (90.8 - 106.9%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO

252 Atk Golisopod Hydro Vortex (160 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Solgaleo in Heavy Rain: 288-339 (60.2 - 70.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 Atk Golisopod Hydro Vortex (160 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Audino-Mega in Heavy Rain: 234-276 (57 - 67.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 Atk Golisopod Hydro Vortex (160 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Registeel in Heavy Rain: 207-244 (56.8 - 67%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

This is enough to punish opponents who are off-guard by dealing significant damage to walls or attackers (that underestimate Golisopod and assume it is passive) that do not resist this.

And onto taking hits:

Primal Groudon Calcs

252+ Atk Groudon-Primal Thousand Arrows vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Golisopod: 59-69 (16.6 - 19.4%) -- guaranteed 6HKO

252+ Atk Choice Band Groudon-Primal Thousand Arrows vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Golisopod: 88-104 (24.8 - 29.3%) -- 100% chance to 4HKO

252+ Atk Groudon-Primal Precipice Blades vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Golisopod: 78-93 (22 - 26.2%) -- 8.6% chance to 4HKO

252+ Atk Choice Band Groudon-Primal Precipice Blades vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Golisopod: 117-138 (33 - 38.9%) -- 99.9% chance to 3HKO

As long as Primal Groudon doesn't run something like Bolt Strike or Tinted Lens, Golisopod can take care of them.

TL;DR: Primals are NOT the only ones who benefit from EV limit removal. There ARE ways to deal with them.

 

[drampa's grandpa]

Many people started complaining about Primals being broken after EV limit removal.

I understand their stats are absurdly high, but there are many checks, just like this thing checks most Primal Groudon variants:

Golisopod @ Waterium Z
Ability: Primordial Sea
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Liquidation
- Spectral Thief
- Recover
- U-turn

Guzma Golisopod has a unique typing that allows it to take plenty of Thousand Arrows with 140 defense stat. Also this thing's mixed bulk, although not stellar, is decent due to Water typing giving many resistances.

You can run plenty of support moves: Stealth Rock, Core Enforcer, Leech Seed, Rapid Spin / Defog, First Impression, etc.

In my case, I gave it Waterium Z instead of Leftovers and Safety Goggles to block Trick, because my own Primal Groudon has Switcheroo which means my Golisopod has to block a Switcheroo from the Imposter as well.

Darkium Z with Parting Shot also works but don't you think STAB U-turn from base attack 125 is also worth?

...

Back to my set, Hydro Vortex hits like a truck (or at least hard) with Primordial Sea:

Hydro Vortex Calcs

252 Atk Golisopod Hydro Vortex (160 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Mewtwo-Mega-X in Heavy Rain: 301-355 (72.3 - 85.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 Atk Golisopod Hydro Vortex (160 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Mewtwo-Mega-Y in Heavy Rain: 378-445 (90.8 - 106.9%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO

252 Atk Golisopod Hydro Vortex (160 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Solgaleo in Heavy Rain: 288-339 (60.2 - 70.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 Atk Golisopod Hydro Vortex (160 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Audino-Mega in Heavy Rain: 234-276 (57 - 67.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 Atk Golisopod Hydro Vortex (160 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Registeel in Heavy Rain: 207-244 (56.8 - 67%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

This is enough to punish opponents who are off-guard by dealing significant damage to walls or attackers (that underestimate Golisopod and assume it is passive) that do not resist this.

And onto taking hits:

Primal Groudon Calcs

252+ Atk Groudon-Primal Thousand Arrows vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Golisopod: 59-69 (16.6 - 19.4%) -- guaranteed 6HKO

252+ Atk Choice Band Groudon-Primal Thousand Arrows vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Golisopod: 88-104 (24.8 - 29.3%) -- 100% chance to 4HKO

252+ Atk Groudon-Primal Precipice Blades vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Golisopod: 78-93 (22 - 26.2%) -- 8.6% chance to 4HKO

252+ Atk Choice Band Groudon-Primal Precipice Blades vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Golisopod: 117-138 (33 - 38.9%) -- 99.9% chance to 3HKO

As long as Primal Groudon doesn't run something like Bolt Strike or Tinted Lens, Golisopod can take care of them.

TL;DR: Primals are NOT the only ones who benefit from EV limit removal. There ARE ways to deal with them.

Pdon commonly runs Tinted Lens, and I have personally run Bolt Strike, although I'm not sure how common this is. It also runs mixed sets. I would probably suggest Crabhammer over Liquidation and you'll probably go on your usual rant about rng. Honestly I might prefer something like Flash Fire Buzzwole (even bulkier, but can't take special hits for its life) or Heracross-Mega (frailer, but stronger) especially because if there's a desolate land Pdon it won't screw you over.

Interesting set though.

 

[Fervis]

Erm, may I just clarify, what does APS stand for?

 

[guan123]

Erm, may I just clarify, what does APS stand for?

APS stands for Anti-Priority Setup. This is the combination of Dazzling, Queenly Majesty, or Psychic Surge in combination with a move that increases stats (usually Shell Smash). Focus Sash is almost always used to guarantee a setup turn. This became less potent due to the EV cap being gone.

 

[Zovrah]

Not sure if this has been here before but i like this set:

Hatshetpsut (Ampharos-Mega) (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Prankster
Shiny: Yes
Happiness: 0
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Thunderbolt
- Core Enforcer
- Substitute
- Copycat

This is my core enforcer of choice. With a raw 85 speed stat,almost nothing under speeds it. In my experience,only ferrothorn is immune to his enforcing of cores. It has a huge 471 special attack stat, and can do a good amount of damage with core enforcer. Copycat allows easy 2HKO's on The two most prominent walls in BH. Some calcs:

Against Giratina:252+ SpA Mold Breaker Ampharos-Mega Core Enforcer vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Giratina: 300-354 (59.5 - 70.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Zygod:252+ SpA Mold Breaker Ampharos-Mega Core Enforcer vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Zygarde-Complete: 320-378 (50.3 - 59.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

I dont know how prominent this set might be now with dark type stopping prankster.

 

[Champion Leon]

Not sure if this has been here before but i like this set:

Hatshetpsut (Ampharos-Mega) (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Prankster
Shiny: Yes
Happiness: 0
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Thunderbolt
- Core Enforcer
- Substitute
- Copycat

This is my core enforcer of choice. With a raw 85 speed stat,almost nothing under speeds it. In my experience,only ferrothorn is immune to his enforcing of cores. It has a huge 471 special attack stat, and can do a good amount of damage with core enforcer. Copycat allows easy 2HKO's on The two most prominent walls in BH. Some calcs:

Against Giratina:252+ SpA Mold Breaker Ampharos-Mega Core Enforcer vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Giratina: 300-354 (59.5 - 70.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Zygod:252+ SpA Mold Breaker Ampharos-Mega Core Enforcer vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Zygarde-Complete: 320-378 (50.3 - 59.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

I dont know how prominent this set might be now with dark type stopping prankster.

Remember Copycat only works once in a row, so if you KO with Copycatting Core Enforcer, the next turn you have to use another move and you have to keep in mind Zygarde will 1K Arrows Ampharos.
Replace Substitute with Shore Up, and Copycat with Trick Room. Now you can always outspeed and give it a better ability like Galvanize and replace Thunderbolt with Boomburst. Leftovers should be replaced by Zap Plate, as you have Shore Up for healing.

Now you can challenge faster threats like Kyogre-Primal, Ash-Greninja/Yveltal (immune to Prankster), etc.

 

[RNGIsFatal]

Remember Copycat only works once in a row, so if you KO with Copycatting Core Enforcer, the next turn you have to use another move and you have to keep in mind Zygarde will 1K Arrows Ampharos.
Replace Substitute with Shore Up, and Copycat with Trick Room. Now you can always outspeed and give it a better ability like Galvanize and replace Thunderbolt with Boomburst. Leftovers should be replaced by Zap Plate, as you have Shore Up for healing.

Now you can challenge faster threats like Kyogre-Primal, Ash-Greninja/Yveltal (immune to Prankster), etc.

That is not the point.

Core Enforcer can be best abused by Mega Ampharos thanks to its terrible speed, even underspeeding most pivoting walls and frequently nullifying the abilities like Regenerator and Poison Heal. Also Copycat + Core Enforcer lets Ampharos safely remove APS user after Shell Smash because their Dazzling / Queenly Majesty will be nullified and therefore will be susceptible to Prankster Copycat.

"Copycat does" NOT "work once in a row". You can keep spamming as long as it is the last move used. Such as if you KO someone with Core Enforcer, you can press Copycat again to make another attack with priority.

Ampharos lacks a moveslot for healing since Fairy types wall Ampharos if it doesn't have any coverage outsides Core Enforcer.

Galvanize set makes things significantly hard to improof Ampharos: Prankster set can't improof itself either but it can at least threaten Imposter to lose its ability on switch-in.

Therefore, I would say your advice on Trick Room and Galvanize is quite irrelevant.

 

[Champion Leon]

That is not the point.

Core Enforcer can be best abused by Mega Ampharos thanks to its terrible speed, even underspeeding most pivoting walls and frequently nullifying the abilities like Regenerator and Poison Heal. Also Copycat + Core Enforcer lets Ampharos safely remove APS user after Shell Smash because their Dazzling / Queenly Majesty will be nullified and therefore will be susceptible to Prankster Copycat.

"Copycat does" NOT "work once in a row". You can keep spamming as long as it is the last move used. Such as if you KO someone with Core Enforcer, you can press Copycat again to make another attack with priority.

Ampharos lacks a moveslot for healing since Fairy types wall Ampharos if it doesn't have any coverage outsides Core Enforcer.

Galvanize set makes things significantly hard to improof Ampharos: Prankster set can't improof itself either but it can at least threaten Imposter to lose its ability on switch-in.

Therefore, I would say your advice on Trick Room and Galvanize is quite irrelevant.

If you read the description while dragging the mouse arrow over Copycat during a battle, it says it will fail if the last used move was Copycat... so you cannot just spam Copycat. You have to use Core Enforcer, Copycat, Core Enforcer, Copycat

Also, Trick Room doesn't have to be used until after Core Enforcer has been used once, just like Copycat would be used second. Trick Room is for Boomburst and Shore Up. If you want to have Core Enforcer, then there is no need to rely on Copycat, especially against Dark types, or faster Prankster Taunt users which stops Copycat.

Ampharos is going to die due to an Imposter using Core Enforcer since Dragon hits Dragon super effectively anyways, but if you want to be Normalize proof, you could switch Boomburst for Judgement, since you are holding a plate anyways, and give it Adaptability for additional power on both of its moves. (Adaptability is effectively +33% power).

Plus since they know you are going to use STAB Dragon moves, (as Ampharos must carry STAB moves for it to have enough reason to really warrant use since it is hardly ever seen), the foe will switch in Imposter Chansey after your Ampharos has KOed an opponent. So your Core Enforcer theory of a Chansey switching in is pointless, therefore letting Core Enforcer activate is not likely. At least with Trick Room, if an Imposter user comes in, you know you have a few turns left until Trick Room wears off, and Chansey would either have to switch out or use Trick Room again. Seriously, any Fairy type on your team can switch in and KO it, and if it has Pixelate it will hit first regardless of the Trick Room or Prankster. Fairy is immune to Dragon, and thus immune to Core Enforcer.
------
Anyways I have an interesting set for physical Normalize.

Arceus @ Ghost Memory
Ability: Normalize
Shiny: Yes
Happiness: 0
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
Jolly Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Shore Up
- Spectral Thief
- Flying Press/Shift Gear
- Multi-Attack

I use this set to surprise Normal-type foes that think they can set up, by using a Spectral Thief they are not immune to. I use Flying Press for additional STAB coverage for hitting Mega Venusaur, etc. for super effective damage, as it is dual Normal/Flying typing, while Shift Gear can be used to always outspeed the foe and use Spectral Thief before they attack, after they have set up.
Multi-Attack turns into a Ghost type attack due to Ghost Memory and allows the user to hit Giratina, Gengar-Mega, etc.

 

[motherlove]

If you read the description while dragging the mouse arrow over Copycat during a battle, it says it will fail if the last used move was Copycat... so you cannot just spam Copycat. You have to use Core Enforcer, Copycat, Core Enforcer, Copycat

If you would've tried it yourself we wouldn't have to tell you that you're wrong, twice.

 

[drampa's grandpa]

If you read the description while dragging the mouse arrow over Copycat during a battle, it says it will fail if the last used move was Copycat... so you cannot just spam Copycat. You have to use Core Enforcer, Copycat, Core Enforcer, Copycat

Also, Trick Room doesn't have to be used until after Core Enforcer has been used once, just like Copycat would be used second. Trick Room is for Boomburst and Shore Up. If you want to have Core Enforcer, then there is no need to rely on Copycat, especially against Dark types, or faster Prankster Taunt users which stops Copycat.

Ampharos is going to die due to an Imposter using Core Enforcer since Dragon hits Dragon super effectively anyways, but if you want to be Normalize proof, you could switch Boomburst for Judgement, since you are holding a plate anyways, and give it Adaptability for additional power on both of its moves. (Adaptability is effectively +33% power).

Plus since they know you are going to use STAB Dragon moves, (as Ampharos must carry STAB moves for it to have enough reason to really warrant use since it is hardly ever seen), the foe will switch in Imposter Chansey after your Ampharos has KOed an opponent. So your Core Enforcer theory of a Chansey switching in is pointless, therefore letting Core Enforcer activate is not likely. At least with Trick Room, if an Imposter user comes in, you know you have a few turns left until Trick Room wears off, and Chansey would either have to switch out or use Trick Room again. Seriously, any Fairy type on your team can switch in and KO it, and if it has Pixelate it will hit first regardless of the Trick Room or Prankster. Fairy is immune to Dragon, and thus immune to Core Enforcer.
------
Anyways I have an interesting set for physical Normalize.

Arceus @ Ghost Memory
Ability: Normalize
Shiny: Yes
Happiness: 0
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
Jolly Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Shore Up
- Spectral Thief
- Flying Press/Shift Gear
- Multi-Attack

I use this set to surprise Normal-type foes that think they can set up, by using a Spectral Thief they are not immune to. I use Flying Press for additional STAB coverage for hitting Mega Venusaur, etc. for super effective damage, as it is dual Normal/Flying typing, while Shift Gear can be used to always outspeed the foe and use Spectral Thief before they attack, after they have set up.
Multi-Attack turns into a Ghost type attack due to Ghost Memory and allows the user to hit Giratina, Gengar-Mega, etc.

Ya as @motherhate said and as this replay shows you are wrong. Also Flying Press isn't Super Effective on Mega Venusaur. I think that set is pretty nice, although the prevalence of other priority makes it not as good as it could be.

 

[Rumors]

Copycat cannot copy Copycat, yes, that is true. But when you use Copycat successfully, you immediately use another move after, which counts as the last move. The only way Copycat can attempt to copy Copycat would be if Copycat failed. And so, it can't copy Copycat because otherwise you'd get "X used Copycat! X used Copycat! X used Copycat! X used Copycat!" in an infinite loop. This sort of behavior extends to all instances of something making a Pokemon use a move. For example, when you bounce a move back with Magic Bounce, you don't actually reflect it. The move instead fails and the Magic Bouncer then uses the move for free. You can actually get choice locked by bouncing a move the Magic Bouncer knows.

Anyway, Copycat strategies are a bit shaky because they break if the opponent gets a move in. But they're potent when they work since there's not a lot that could, say, eat Primaldon's V-Create twice in a row with no chance to react.


...also, Ampharos makes for a neat Refrigerate user. It's probably not as good as Galvanize, but I used a TR 'Fridge Ampharos last gen to pretty darn good effect on a team.

 

[Uselesscrab]

Ya as @motherhate said and as this replay shows you are wrong. Also Flying Press isn't Super Effective on Mega Venusaur. I think that set is pretty nice, although the prevalence of other priority makes it not as good as it could be.

nah, OM! is correct about this one, as normalize flying press is normal / flying and thus hits Mega Venusaur for super effective damage. That said, it is also 4x resisted by Steel-types, which unlike Mega Venusaur are actually seen in the metagame. As such, I would not opt for Flying Press, personally.

 

[RNGIsFatal]

Can someone please clarify how did we shift from Gøvhatanks 's Ampharos set to how Normalize Flying Press works?

Also Fighting-type moves do not hit many things hard, and you can see this from MMX used significantly less often than Mega Rayquaza. Giratina is everywhere to screw your Fighting-STAB, while the likes of Mega Rayquaza can threaten common physical walls by running mixed set or specific coverage.

Even if you are using Normalize Flying Press I would suggest Frustration for better improofing and higher BP overall.

Also in future, we have to correct someone using profile post or PM in order to refrain ourselves from correcting one of the members of the community when he / she said something wrong...

... rather than spamming the thread with 10+ posts for every mistake we make.

I am not minimoding, at least this is what I think. I made similar mistake when I was a novice and thought we could simply correct each other while not driving ourselves off topic.

 

[Rumors]

The thing with public correction though is it prevents spreading mis-information. Like... if I said Fire Blast had a 50% burn chance and was only corrected on my profile, someone less knowledgable might come along, read my post, and think it had 50% burn chance instead of 10%. I mean, we can't expect everyone to fact check everyone's post by checking their profile for corrections, especially new/inexperienced users.

So, we might get multiple posts correcting either due to posting at the same time or someone clarifying/explaining/adding to something someone else's post didn't include, but it's better than factually wrong information being left unchallenged on public display in a place people go to for information.

 

[ElMustacho]

Ok I'm posting a new sets that is very nice at what it is supposed to do. Explanations comes under the set.

Groudon-Primal @ Icium Z
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- V-create
- Thousand Arrows / Earthquake / Precipice Blades
- Freeze Shock
- U-turn / Spectral Thief / Shift Gear / Haze / Pursuit

The moveset.
V-create is V-create, it's a move that sports awesome power at an high price (your stats). With the new lack of EV limit it can't OHKO some bulky pokemon like Regigigas, but it still nails Steel types (we are ignoring Flash Fire).
Thousand Arrows hits everything relevant for at least neutral damage, the other moves are there if you want a little more power.
Freeze Shock is a bad move, but it can summon a 200 BP Subzero Slammer, which is kinda the whole point of this set.
The last move is flexible. U-turn is used to keep momentum, Spectral Thief can be used to steal the boost of an non-threatening opponent, Shift Gear can be used to set up and perform a sweep and Haze can be used to reset stats on the field and fully heal you in the process if Icium can be sacrificed. (note that you can attack again more safely since the stat drops from V-create are gone). Pursuit can be run if you want a guaranteed victory against Shedinja.

The usage
Send Groudon-Primal in when you expect a Trick, as it is immune to it. If you believe that the opponent will switch to Shedinja, you can anticipate the opponent and remove the Sturdy bug from the equations of your game, especially if running Pursuit.
If Fur Coat Chansey loses its Eviolite, V-create can OHKO it.
This set also is a specific trap to Giratina and Zygarde. While Giratina is often used to wall Groudon-Primal with Fur Coat and Zygarde does that too without any specific ability, this Groudon-Primal lacks the problem. Zygarde is hit with an effective 800 BP move (spoiler alert, it dies whatever it is running), and Giratina is heavily damaged. The combination of Thousand Arrows (or variants) and Subzero Slammer is fatal to any Giratina, but with Stealth Rock and a little extra 3% hp of damage (most U-turn/Volt Switch do that damage to Giratina) Groudon-Primal scores the kill with the Z-Move alone.
252+ Atk Mold Breaker Groudon-Primal Subzero Slammer (200 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Giratina: 426-502 (84.5 - 99.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (this is the set that most Fur Coat users run).
This opens the opponent to physical moves and Psystrike/Secret Sword.

Team options
This Groudon-Primal helps physical attackers, and for that reason it should be paired with them. This doesn't mean that this set is completely self sufficient; in fact it greatly appreciates support from the teammates, in the form of Spore, Stealth Rock, Knock Off and chip damage from pivoting moves.

Counters to the Imposter
Giratina and Zygarde. I'm not kidding. The Imposter can't break them without Icium, and if they select Freeze Shock you can simply switch out to something else, like Registeel. Heal your team in the meanwhile.

Bonus content: Revelation Dance analysis.
Revelation dance sports a passable 90 BP, 24 PP and an interesting effect; its type varies based on the user's primary type. If you didn't realize it before, I'll tell you now: it's unaffected by Normalize. Only MMY has the Spatk required to OHKO it without the need of running a boosting nature, but pokemon like Yveltal can run it anyway, survive whatever move may unboosted Gengar can throw at it (including Entrainment that usually shuts it down) and hit it back, 2HKOing it.
252 SpA Yveltal Revelation Dance vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Gengar-Mega: 242-288 (74.6 - 88.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Comments to this are appreciated.
P.S.
The damage calculator shows the move as Revelation Dancer. Is it the intended behavior?

 

[Champion Leon]

nah, OM! is correct about this one, as normalize flying press is normal / flying and thus hits Mega Venusaur for super effective damage. That said, it is also 4x resisted by Steel-types, which unlike Mega Venusaur are actually seen in the metagame. As such, I would not opt for Flying Press, personally.

Thank you!

I am confused why The Immortal removed my post when I ended up being correct.

Anyways, I agree that Steel types are more common, but the Flying type does have its merits, it also hit Pheromosa, Mega Heracross, and other Fighting/Bug/Grass types harder due to it being super effective. (I know Triage or base Speed are a factor, but just having this for a guaranteed 1HKO is useful on their switch in, or in case Arceus is bulky enough to survive and KO, since Drain Punch is still a pretty low Base Power, especially since it can now max out its HP and Def due to the max EVs change).

Can someone please clarify how did we shift from Gøvhatanks 's Ampharos set to how Normalize Flying Press works?

Also Fighting-type moves do not hit many things hard, and you can see this from MMX used significantly less often than Mega Rayquaza. Giratina is everywhere to screw your Fighting-STAB, while the likes of Mega Rayquaza can threaten common physical walls by running mixed set or specific coverage.

Even if you are using Normalize Flying Press I would suggest Frustration for better improofing and higher BP overall.

Also in future, we have to correct someone using profile post or PM in order to refrain ourselves from correcting one of the members of the community when he / she said something wrong...

... rather than spamming the thread with 10+ posts for every mistake we make.

I am not minimoding, at least this is what I think. I made similar mistake when I was a novice and thought we could simply correct each other while not driving ourselves off topic.

Spectral Thief hits Electrics, and your point of Giratina doesn't matter, it has Multi-Attack with Ghost Drive for coverage.

Your point about correcting people by profile or PM makes no sense since your attempt to "correct me" was not done by PM or profile post, so don't make rules you don't follow...