Metagame SM NU Alpha Discussion (read post #153)

[erisia]

Don't have much time but mentioning some shit I see that's gonna be absurd that has not been mentioned and some cool mons with my fav item in the game [:

Nobody has really mentioned Lax even though lax absolutely smashes this meta.

Snorlax @ Leftovers
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 188 HP / 144 Def / 176 SpD
Careful Nature
- Rest
- Curse
- Return
- Sleep Talk

Standard. EVs from smogon so they'll probs be updated for shit as the meta evolves. This thing just blows the meta. There are very few bulky ghost types and just stick a drapion or skuntank on for pursuit and you're fine. This thing sets up on 80% of the meta and bar phasers and hazers this thing just flat sweeps.

Snorlax @ Figy Berry
Ability: Gluttony
EVs: 188 HP / 144 Def / 176 SpD
Careful Nature
- Recycle
- Curse
- Return/Body Slam/Facade
- Crunch/EQ

Different set taking advantage of berries+recycle. This set also looks good as fairly reliable recovery and you don't have to rely on talk rolls. Also allows you to hit ghost types if you care enough. Drapion however is also looking super clean so like drapion+granbull+snorlax core is looking absurd. Stick like rotom-mow on there or something.

More offensive mons that are viable. Looking there are very little steel types rn. Thus this thing is looking ridiculous

Gardevoir @ Choice Specs
Ability: Trace
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Moonblast
- Psychic
- Focus Blast/Shadow Ball
- Trick/Shadow Ball

252 SpA Choice Specs Gardevoir Moonblast vs. 244 HP / 252+ SpD Steelix: 106-126 (30.1 - 35.7%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Gardevoir Focus Blast vs. 244 HP / 252+ SpD Steelix: 360-424 (102.2 - 120.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Steelix is the only steel type that is not 2hkoed by moonblast in the tier. Psychic for poisons. You can also run like twistedspoon to bluff specs to force in pursuiters and get a hell of a lot of damage on mons like drap, spritomb and skuntank.
Scarf is also looking absurd as well with all of the potential offense and set up mons tricking them scarf or running memento.

Also due to this meta looking fairly offensive time for my boy slowking the g to come back.

Slowking @ Eject Button
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 248 HP / 248 Def / 12 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Psyshock
- Thunder Wave/Toxic/Yawn
- Slack Off

Solid pivot on offensive squads. Lets you get in a wallbreaker. Also a HUGE fan of button hitmontop setting up intimidate for a like turt or barb to smash up and break their team for a scarfer to clean or some nice prio hitter like bruxish.

Overall I had like 5 minutes. This meta honestly is looking SUPER diverse. All of HO, BO, Stall and Balance all have incredible options. This'll be one hell of a fun meta and can't wait to get started. Never really got into NU in ORAS but intend to get into it this gen; Take a break from LC occasionally.

Good post but Gardevoir has RU usage atm so I doubt we'll see it in SM NU Alpha. Slowking seems like it'll be one of the most common mons in general between its excellent defensive typing, good offensive movepool, great recovery, and access to Trick Room.

That last point is more relevant than you might think as between solid Trick Room setters, excellent abusers, and the ludicrous Speed tiers available to Pokemon like Noivern, Sharpedo, Slurpuff, and so on, I think it's going to be an excellent anti-metagame force in the right hands. Here are some setters / abusers that I think are going to be particularly relevant:

Slowking @ Life Orb / Psychium-Z
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Trick Room
- Nasty Plot / Slack Off
- Scald
- Psyshock

Strong, bulky, threatening, this mon can actually work well as a standalone sweeper that also interferes with offense teams that can't immediately KO it. Regenerator lets it come in and set Trick Room again and again, Slack Off gives you a bit more recovery to make it easier if you're relying on Slowking as one of your main setters. Water + Psychic is a killer STAB combo (just ask Bruxish) so you don't really need to run any coverage. Psychium-Z gives you a one-off special Psychic-type attack (and also nukes stuff, which can be useful for breaking through resists after a Nasty Plot or just for occasions where you don't have time to set up Nasty Plot).

Cofagrigus @ Life Orb / Ghostium-Z
Ability: Mummy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Trick Room
- Nasty Plot
- Shadow Ball / Hex
- Hidden Power Ground / Will-O-Wisp

Cofagrigus struggles a lot against Dark-types but otherwise does a pretty good job as a setter / abuser. Ghost-typing both lets it spinblock and gives it a great mono-attacking STAB, while its huge Defense stat and Mummy help it shut down things such as Medicham and get setup opportunities. Hidden Power Ground hits Dark-types like Drapion and Houndoom but you're still going to struggle against a few of them no matter what you run. Z-Hex has 160 BP and is a solid wallbreaking tool, and you can combine it with Will-O-Wisp to give Cofagrigus some more defensive utility. Memento can also be pretty good for bringing in sweepers.

Meloetta @ Life Orb
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Trick Room
- Psychic
- Hyper Voice
- Focus Blast

No setup here; just a ridiculously strong beater that's almost impossible to wall (just watch out for Spiritomb). Meloetta's excellent special bulk means it can stomach most strong neutral special attacks and set up with ease, while Hyper Voice helps get past Substitute users. Quite fast for a Trick Room user but this means you can send it in to beat up slow tanks without having to set up, and you still have enough bulk to make up for it overall.

Whimsicott @ Leftovers
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe
Bold Nature
- Trick Room
- Moonblast / Giga Drain
- Encore
- U-turn / Memento

Weird choice but it's one of the best Trick Room setters that resists Dark-type attacks, which can be useful from a teambuilding perspective. Prankster Encore is also a useful emergency button that works both in and out of Trick Room, while U-turn gives you a slow pivot in Trick Room and Memento provides more setup opportunities. You can use a faster EV spread to get a slow U-turn off against a wider set of mons in Trick Room, but Whimiscott misses the extra physical bulk.

Honourable mentions for other setters include Aromatisse (particular if Whimsicott rises), Uxie, Musharna, and Jellicent (try Waterium-Z Water Spout it's fun af). Now here's some abusers that I think will be particularly deadly:

Snorlax @ Aguav Berry
Ability: Gluttony
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Belly Drum
- Return
- Earthquake
- Crunch / Recycle

Belly Drum and a moveset with excellent neutral coverage means you can pretty much break through teams if you get a setup opportunity (either via Memento or Snorlax's own natural bulk). Alternatively if you have another teammate that handles Ghost-types and such, Recycle is useful for having some recovery to either finish off a late-game sweep or for giving Snorlax some extra utility in the early game.

Machamp @ Flame Orb
Ability: Guts
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Close Combat
- Knock Off
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge

Oh boy. How exactly do you wall this thing? Coverage for days, excellent STAB in Close Combat, and now it won't even kill itself from burn damage (at least, not as quickly). Pangoro is obviously also good with a similar set, trading a stronger Knock Off for weaker STAB (then again the Speed drops from Iron Fist Hammer Arm are nice), weaker other coverage moves, and some extra resists / weaknesses. Either's good but Machamp is being slept on a lot more for some reason.

Vikavolt @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Thunderbolt
- Bug Buzz
- Energy Ball
- Volt Switch / Roost

This tier really struggles with good Electric-type checks and Vikavolt breaks through them all (just get some prior damage on Steelix). Furthermore, Vikavolt can bypass Substitutes with Bug Buzz and has enough physical bulk to have some decent defensive utility with its good set of resists. Volt Switch also lets you pivot into a setter on the last turn of Trick Room, which is excellent.

Oh yeah and Drampa / Crabominable are also really strong and difficult to wall, so use those too.

tl;dr give Trick Room a try. :)

 

[AJB]

Erisia touched nicely upon how effective Speed control, and particularly Trick Room can be in this potential metagame, so I want to talk briefly about the other side of the coin. With the most recent usage stats there appears to be a lot of effective Tailwind setters and abusers so here are some sets and ideas for anyone who wants to try them out.

Setters:

Whimsicott @ Darkinium Z
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Giga Drain
- Moonblast
- Memento
- Tailwind

Dual STAB is probably necessary as it allows Whimsicott to properly check both Water- and Fighting-types, although this set would like to run Stun Spore as well. Regardless, Prankster Tailwind is also amazing and can turn a battle around in an instant. Z Memento essentially acts as a priority Healing Wish and regular Memento, making it a deadly option for the later stages of a battle. Essentially this Whimsicott emphasizes role compression by checking Waters, Grounds, and Fighting-types, while also providing team support through Tailwind and Z Memento. The two moves have particularly exceptional synergy together, as Whimsicott can Tailwind on the first turn, and then provide a teammate with a free switch and vulnerable opponent with Z Memento.

Tornadus (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hurricane
- Grass Knot
- Focus Blast / Taunt / Knock Off / Iron Tail
- Tailwind

Another excellent user of Prankster Tailwind. Between its coverage and sheer power Torandus is going to be a large threat in NU Alpha. This Torandus set can break through the opposing team early-mid game, and once it has done its job set up a priority Tailwind for a teammate to clean up the opponents weakened team. Nothing can really switch into Hurricane and Grass Knot anyway aside from incredibly bulky specially defensive pokemon so the third slot is completely customizable to whatever fits your team best.

Noivern @ Life Orb
Ability: Infiltrator
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draco Meteor
- Hurricane
- Heat Wave
- Tailwind

Although Noivern doesn't have access to priority Tailwind, base 123 Speed means Noivern will usually have no problems getting off a fast Tailwind when it needs to. This Noivern works similarly to the above Tornadus set, breaking through the opponents team with its powerful STAB, and then using Tailwind as a last ditch effort for a teammate to come in and do damage. Of the three abusers, Noivern is probably the simplest, and least effective at its job however it should still prove to be a solid Pokemon in Alpha.

Abusers:

Hoopa @ Life Orb / Choice Specs
Ability: Magician
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid / Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Shadow Ball
- Psyshock
- Focus Blast
- Substitute / Thunderbolt

Hoopa is a menace. 150 SpA with solid dual STAB and coverage means not much is switching into this thing safely. Hoopa is unfortunately hindered by its only decent Speed stat, though, meaning it is a perfect Tailwind abuser. Choice Specs can be used to maximize damage output, however Life Orb is likely optimal for sweeping potential under Tailwind and allows Hoopa to utilize Substitute to help dodge 4x super effective Sucker Punches. Being immune to common priority attacks such as Fake Out and Mach Punch doesn't hurt, either.

Exploud @ Choice Specs
Ability: Scrappy
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Boomburst
- Fire Blast
- Surf
- Focus Blast

Another huge Special Attacker that is hindered by mediocre Speed. Exploud is super simple so not much to get into with it, get it a free switch after Tailwind has been set up and click Boomburst. Allowing Exploud to break early-mid game and then use something like Tailwind + Z Memento from Whimsicott in the later stages of a battle to not only give it a free switch in with 3 turns of doubled Speed, but also heal Exploud to full is a sound strategy in theory at least.

Pangoro @ Life Orb
Ability: Iron Fist
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Knock Off
- Drain Punch
- Gunk Shot
- Earthquake

With perfect neutral coverage and powerful STAB's Pangoro looks to be a very threatening Pokemon in NU Alpha. Even with an Adamant nature Pangoro outspeeds Choice Scarf base 80's under Tailwind, which is hot. Another relatively simple Pokemon, get it in safely and watch it shred through any bulky core your opponent has brought. Life Orb seems like it would be more useful than something such as Fightinium Z, as Iron Fist boosted Drain Punch is strong enough and Pangoro has coverage to bypass all of its traditional "counters".

Both Trick Room and Tailwind look like really effective strategies for at least the Alpha stage of S/M NU, and while I don't think fully dedicated teams of either will be dominant, "Semi-room" and teams that utilize, but are not fully reliant on Tailwind will prove to be excellent.

 

[Rennyjesus]

Hey guys, sorry to ask but... what do you think about Guzzlord... it could be viable here? It seems decently bulky and powerful, depending on what you want it to do, and it's typing isn't that bad defensively/ofensively, so... it would be NU? Or will fall to PU?

See ya!

 

[erisia]

Hey guys, sorry to ask but... what do you think about Guzzlord... it could be viable here? It seems decently bulky and powerful, depending on what you want it to do, and it's typing isn't that bad defensively/ofensively, so... it would be NU? Or will fall to PU?

See ya!

We get this question all the time so I'm gonna put a moratorium on it: Guzzlord is probably not going to be very good. This is because it has the conundrum of both being super slow (in a tier with much better Trick Room abusers) and either not strong enough or not bulky enough to work. Because of its low defenses, you pretty much have to invest in one of them to not keel over from super-effective attacks, and even then you'll die to just about any Fairy move after hazards. However, you also don't have enough power to do anything really productive outside of use Draco Meteor and hope for Beast Boost to come in useful for once. I think the best set will probably be a mixed AV set since it has both the bulk to switch into things and the power to force stuff out with Draco Meteor and super effective hits, as well as being a good Fairy lure I guess.

Guzzlord @ Assault Vest
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
Quiet / Modest Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Dark Pulse
- Fire Blast
- Heavy Slam / Sludge Bomb

Heavy Slam is better against most Fairies while Sludge Bomb is better against things like Granbull. If you're not too concerned about Steelix then you can run Snarl or Dragon Tail as a utility slot over Fire Blast.

But the truth is that Guzzlord isn't going to do much against any team that has a Fairy in the wings. So evaluate whether you really need something like Guzzlord as a general special sponge or not depending on your team makeup and don't assume it's going to be super good because it's an Ultra Beast.

 

[viol and bass]

We get this question all the time so I'm gonna put a moratorium on it: Guzzlord is probably not going to be very good. This is because it has the conundrum of both being super slow (in a tier with much better Trick Room abusers) and either not strong enough or not bulky enough to work. Because of its low defenses, you pretty much have to invest in one of them to not keel over from super-effective attacks, and even then you'll die to just about any Fairy move after hazards. However, you also don't have enough power to do anything really productive outside of use Draco Meteor and hope for Beast Boost to come in useful for once. I think the best set will probably be a mixed AV set since it has both the bulk to switch into things and the power to force stuff out with Draco Meteor and super effective hits, as well as being a good Fairy lure I guess.

Guzzlord @ Assault Vest
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
Quiet / Modest Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Dark Pulse
- Fire Blast
- Heavy Slam / Sludge Bomb

Heavy Slam is better against most Fairies while Sludge Bomb is better against things like Granbull. If you're not too concerned about Steelix then you can run Snarl or Dragon Tail as a utility slot over Fire Blast.

But the truth is that Guzzlord isn't going to do much against any team that has a Fairy in the wings. So evaluate whether you really need something like Guzzlord as a general special sponge or not depending on your team makeup and don't assume it's going to be super good because it's an Ultra Beast.

I'd argue that specs is actually a more threatening set. AV kind of just sits there. Specs solves the power issue, and Dark Pulse is super spammable, while Draco's an actual nuke. Guzzlord does have the bulk to take a few select hits because its typing does grant it some useful resistances (Dark, Electric, Fire, Ghost, Grass, Water, Psychic immunity). Finally, Specs allows it to actually make use of its ability, because Guzz can actually kill things. Essentially no other set can do that because they're all far too weak to get kills. I don't think Guzz will be top-tier, but I think it could very well be useable.

Guzzlord @ Choice Specs
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 Def / 252 SpA / 4 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Dark Pulse
- Draco Meteor
- Fire Blast
- Sludge Bomb

Trevenant @ Grassium Z
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Wood Hammer
- Shadow Claw
- Drain Punch
- Forest Curse

I also wanted to mention something about this set. I've read some of the discussion on it, but you can't forget that Z-Forest's Curse adds the grass typing to your opponent. In doing so, you're nerfing what is by far your most powerful move, and thereby shooting yourself in the foot. It's another reason I think this set doesn't really hold up.

 

[AJB]

As you may know by now, Tornadus has been recently banned from RU. As such, we will obviously not be getting it for NU Alpha. Probably for the best!

 

[ChrystalFalchion]

I was thinking of writing an article about the new NU, and I would greatly appreciate help from you guys, as you're more familiar with what will be dropping than I will. Here's how I was planning to set it out:

Dropouts

List some Pokémon who have dropped from RU / UU in previous generations, and what makes them good.

Old threats, new toys

List some old prominent NU threats that have received buffs in Gen 7, and discuss how those buffs will help.

New Faces

List some newly introduced Pokémon and discuss what makes them good.

Get out there

Concluding paragraph.


If you couldn't tell, I'd like your help with the Pokémon themselves. I'm not going to list potential sets, as that will make the article too long. Just 5 or so Pokémon in each section will do. So what Pokémon do you guys think will be notable, in the categories I've listed.

 

[Marrrrrrrrrr]

Time really flies, April is almost here. A new month means a new update, and a new update means NU is going to lose some things. I thought pointing out the ones most likely to leave will help get a sense of NU Alpha. (I don't know if speculation is allowed here or not, I apologize if I'm doing anything wrong)

It rose in popularity in RU this month, and now the ban of Bewear has really done it. I've been using it in RU a lot more lately and I've seen a lot more too, this is pretty likely to rise, which would make Machamp even better down here.

Another Pokemon I've been using/seeing in RU a lot more lately. It hasn't so much gotten better in RU as much as it has been slept on. RU doesn't have a lot of Fire types and it's used a lot in RU for its Z-Moves.

Mainly used for its Choice Specs set, which I've tried and don't like very much due to the lack of switching moves and the fact that it gives up on status moves but whatever. People have been using it in RU for its wallbreaking skills. Vikavolt would probably become more viable here assuming it rises.

Used for two sets: Quiver Dance and Choice Specs. Venomoth being banned has given this more viability and usage in RU. This would give other Quiver Dancers a chance to shine here, such as Lilligant.

This was on RU's most recent chopping block... I haven't done any research on Talonflame myself but I can definitely tell that it's a threat up in RU.



Other stuff will probably rise too, this is just a general idea of how I think April's update will shape NU up.

 

[Shadestep]

I was thinking of writing an article about the new NU, and I would greatly appreciate help from you guys, as you're more familiar with what will be dropping than I will. Here's how I was planning to set it out:

Dropouts

List some Pokémon who have dropped from RU / UU in previous generations, and what makes them good.

Old threats, new toys

List some old prominent NU threats that have received buffs in Gen 7, and discuss how those buffs will help.

New Faces

List some newly introduced Pokémon and discuss what makes them good.

Get out there

Concluding paragraph.


If you couldn't tell, I'd like your help with the Pokémon themselves. I'm not going to list potential sets, as that will make the article too long. Just 5 or so Pokémon in each section will do. So what Pokémon do you guys think will be notable, in the categories I've listed.

hey dude, i really appreciate your enthousiasm and willingness to contribute, but realistically there's hardly a NU 'tier' formed yet. We're only on pre-alpha, and this tier/banlist is pure chaos and highly underplayed.

Once NU Beta starts though (May i think), this would be a much more interesting topic and I think either me or erisia would be interested in giving you a hand in this.

 

[ChrystalFalchion]

Yeah you're right, Alpha ladders are pure chaos. Thought of some new sets to run of some of NU's old favourites. No idea how good they'll be, just theorymonning.

Samurott @ Waterium Z
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature / Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Aqua Tail / Waterfall
- Megahorn
- Aqua Jet

Pretty much identical to the set it's been running since Gen 5, just with a new item. Waterium Z gives you a 175 BP Hydro Vortex (160 if you run Waterfall), letting you plough through stuff you otherwise never could Weezing and defensive Garbador. Megahorn hits the Grass types that resist your STAB super effectively. Aqua Jet lets you clean against frail offensive teams.

Kabutops @ Rockium Z
Ability: Weak Armor
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature / Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Waterfall
- Stone Edge
- Aqua Jet / Knock Off

Pretty much the same as the above set, with a different item. Rockium Z turns Stone Edge into a 180 BP Continental Crush that critically won't miss.

Charizard @ Firium Z
Ability: Solar Power
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Sunny Day
- Fire Blast
- Solar Beam
- Roost

Z-Sunny Day gives Charizard +1 Speed, letting it clean against offensive teams. On the other hand, if you already outspeed the opposing team, you could save your Z crystal for Fire Blast, giving you a 185 power Inferno Overdrive (277 power in sun - and that's before STAB!). Sunny Day triggers Solar Power and powers up Fire Blast to ridiculous levels. Solar Beam hits the Rock and Water types that resist Fire Blast. Roost keeps Charizard healthy, offsetting Solar Power's HP drops.

 

[Skelos]

Mainly used for its Choice Specs set, which I've tried and don't like very much due to the lack of switching moves and the fact that it gives up on status moves but whatever. People have been using it in RU for its wallbreaking skills. Vikavolt would probably become more viable here assuming it rises.

Hi! I just wanna ask, how does this hurt Vikavolt's usage?

252 SpA Life Orb Vikavolt Bug Buzz vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Drampa: 224-265 (62.2 - 73.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (Life Orb)
252+ SpA Choice Specs Vikavolt Bug Buzz vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Drampa: 283-334 (78.6 - 92.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (Choice Specs)
0 SpA Vikavolt Bug Buzz vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Drampa: 145-172 (40.2 - 47.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO (Physically Defensive)

These calcs are from Vikavolt's (known) viable sets, and heck, even Phys defensive dents a lot of damage. Idk what ev spread RU is using, but what I'm sure this doesnt hinder Vika's usage.

Sorry for being too nitpicky here :x.

 

[ChrystalFalchion]

Do you think Agility Vikavolt would be viable? With a Timid Nature it can hit 406 Speed at +2, enough to outrun base 135s and Scarfed 70s. It has decent bulk and isn't weak to any priority moves apart from Accelerock, and even with a Timid nature still hits pretty hard. The only Pokémon (I think) that resist Bug Buzz, Thunderbolt and Energy Ball are Rotom-H and Shedinja (well technically Mega Altaria, but that's unreleased and would never be legal in NU).

 

[Marrrrrrrrrr]

Hi! I just wanna ask, how does this hurt Vikavolt's usage?

252 SpA Life Orb Vikavolt Bug Buzz vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Drampa: 224-265 (62.2 - 73.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (Life Orb)
252+ SpA Choice Specs Vikavolt Bug Buzz vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Drampa: 283-334 (78.6 - 92.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (Choice Specs)
0 SpA Vikavolt Bug Buzz vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Drampa: 145-172 (40.2 - 47.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO (Physically Defensive)

These calcs are from Vikavolt's (known) viable sets, and heck, even Phys defensive dents a lot of damage. Idk what ev spread RU is using, but what I'm sure this doesnt hinder Vika's usage.

Sorry for being too nitpicky here :x.

I didn't say usage, I said viability. And I think that Drampa departing would cause Vikavolt to increase in viability not because of its battle matchup with Drampa, but because Drampa gives Vikavolt competition. Drampa isn't weak to Rocks and has a more colorful movepool. Vikavolt still has its usage as a Specs user due to a higher Sp. Attack stat and Volt Switch, but Drampa is usually better at that role.

Do you think Agility Vikavolt would be viable? With a Timid Nature it can hit 406 Speed at +2, enough to outrun base 135s and Scarfed 70s. It has decent bulk and isn't weak to any priority moves apart from Accelerock, and even with a Timid nature still hits pretty hard. The only Pokémon (I think) that resist Bug Buzz, Thunderbolt and Energy Ball are Rotom-H and Shedinja (well technically Mega Altaria, but that's unreleased and would never be legal in NU).

Yeah, you pretty much summed it up yourself. Giving up on coverage sucks but it can still get by with just 3 attacking moves. Not to mention that Rotom-Heat is up in RU anyway. I really don't know what else to say that you haven't already said yourself.



Edit: Bug Buzz/Thunderbolt/Energy Ball is also resisted by Turtonator

 

[ChrystalFalchion]

I think Choice Specs Vikavolt would run Volt Switch instead of another coverage move. Pretty much all Choiced Electric types do that to grab momentum. It could also use relatively slow Volt Switches to safely bring in a teammate. I think Vikavolt's sets right now would be:

Vikavolt @ Choice Specs
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe or 196 HP / 252 SpA / 60 Spe (outruns uninvested base 50s)
Modest Nature
- Bug Buzz
- Thunderbolt
- Energy Ball / Hidden Power Ice
- Volt Switch

And

Vikavolt @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Agility
- Thunderbolt
- Bug Buzz
- Energy Ball

 

[AJB]

Tennis and I along w/ some others were discussing Alolan Exeggutor so figured i'd post some sets and thoughts about it since it seems pretty neat..

Exeggutor-Alola @ Life Orb / Yache Berry
Ability: Frisk
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Leaf Storm
- Draco Meteor
- Flamethrower
- Trick Room

Simple yet effective set in theory. Leaf Storm and Draco are STAB nukes that hit even resists hard, while Flamethrower provides awesome coverage on Steel-types such as Steelix and Ferroseed. Trick Room uses Exeggutor's poor Speed stat to its advantage and allows Exeggutor to outpace most things during its duration. Life Orb is nice for power but Yache seems like it will be very useful for surviving stray Ice Beam and Ice Punch's from Water-types like Lanturn or even Floatzel.

Exeggutor-Alola @ Life Orb
Ability: Frisk
EVs: 252 Atk / 12 SpA / 244 Spe
Naughty Nature
- Wood Hammer
- Draco Meteor
- Dragon Hammer
- Flamethrower

A mixed approach, this set focuses more so on sheer wall breaking rather than sweeping under TR. Enough Speed to outpace non invested Garbodor, although i'm sure there will be better spreads down the line. Wood Hammer smacks typical switch ins such as Clefairy, Mega Audino, and Aromatisse, while Draco Meteor nails Poison's like Garb, Drapion, and Golbat. Dragon Hammer seems like it could be really useful for surprising Pokemon who think Exeggutor is set up fodder at -2, and then nailing them with a strong hit. Lastly, Flamethrower provides great great coverage on Pokemon such as Whimsicott, Steelix, and Ribombee who see Wood Hammer / Dragon Hammer and assume physical.

Exeggutor-Alola @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Frisk
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draco Meteor
- Leaf Storm
- Flamethrower
- Sludge Bomb

While potentially more of a meme than anything else, Choice Scarf alleviates one of Exeggutor's biggest flaws, its inability to check faster offensive Water-types such as Bruxish, Samurott, and Kabutops. After a Swords Dance, these Waters are all capable of OHKO'ing even max HP Exeggutor. However, the added boost from Choice Scarf allows Exeggutor to outspeed these foes and smack them with a powerful Leaf Storm which is fairly hot. One thing to note about this set is that it still falls short of outspeeding base 95's such as Jynx and Drapion, so despite wearing a Choice Scarf it cannot be the fastest Pokemon on offensive teams.

Alolan Exeggutor definitely won't be the most splashable Pokemon, but between its great coverage and solid mixed attacking stats it should have very few switch ins and will definitely be a strong balance breaker.

 

[ChrystalFalchion]

Out of the sets you listed I think the Trick Room set is the best. Scarf is still too slow IMO, Mega Audino is unreleased and Aromatisse typically runs a physically defensive spread. I'd personally use Grassium Z or Dragonium Z on that set, but that's just me. Speaking of Dragon types.

Turtonator @ Dragonium Z
Ability: Shell Armor
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Shell Smash
- Flamethrower / Fire Blast
- Draco Meteor
- Hidden Power Grass / Dragon Pulse

Meant as a late game sweeper, but you could also use it as an early / mid game wallbreaker. Shell Smash fixes your low Speed and average Special Attack - after using it, you outrun Sceptile and Scarf base 60s. Flamethrower is a solid reliable STAB. Fire Blast is even stronger, but it is prone to miss at the worst time. Draco Meteor turns into a 195 power Devastating Drake with the Dragonium Z. Hidden Power Grass OHKOes physically defensive Gastrodon at +2. Dragon Pulse can be used if you want a reliable Dragon STAB. EVs are self explanatory. A Timid nature is a must to outrun Ribombee. Still not convinced?

+2 252 SpA Turtonator Devastating Drake (195 BP) vs. 0 HP / 132 SpD Assault Vest Lanturn: 357-420 (91.3 - 107.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252 SpA Turtonator Devastating Drake (195 BP) vs. 0 HP / 252 SpD Assault Vest Hariyama: 358-423 (83.4 - 98.6%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO after 1 layer of Spikes
+2 252 SpA Turtonator Devastating Drake (195 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Audino: 394-465 (96 - 113.4%) -- 75% chance to OHKO
2 252 SpA Turtonator Devastating Drake (195 BP) vs. 252 HP / 56 SpD Regirock: 471-555 (129.3 - 152.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO

 

[Skelos]

Out of the sets you listed I think the Trick Room set is the best. Scarf is still too slow IMO, Mega Audino is unreleased and Aromatisse typically runs a physically defensive spread. I'd personally use Grassium Z or Dragonium Z on that set, but that's just me. Speaking of Dragon types.

Turtonator @ Dragonium Z
Ability: Shell Armor
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Shell Smash
- Flamethrower / Fire Blast
- Draco Meteor
- Hidden Power Grass / Dragon Pulse

Meant as a late game sweeper, but you could also use it as an early / mid game wallbreaker. Shell Smash fixes your low Speed and average Special Attack - after using it, you outrun Ribombee and tie with Talonflame. A Timid nature is a must to outrun Ribombee. Still not convinced?

Uh yeah I'm not convinced since you never outspeed a positive natured max speed Ribombee and Talonflame which hits 381 and 386 Spe respectively, whereas you only hit 376 Spe max even if your timid. Also I think it's mandatory to run HP Grass/EQ on the last slot as these are the best coverage options you have, and you just have to choose one from Draco and D-pulse, basically picking your poison on wether to hit hard or to have more bulk (Dragonium Z vs White herb; Idt Dragonium Z is ideal for D-pulse sets since you still dont have enough power due to Turt's lackluster SpA). BUT all in all it was a nice post as i really like this mon, just wanna point out some important stuff.

Anyways I'll just drop some stuff since I now feel bad when I post with just like that^^

Talked about in chat yesterday so why not in here as well.

Golisopod @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Emergency Exit
EVs: 168 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def / 84 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Leech Life
- Aqua Jet / Substitute
- Liquidation

This thing was one of the things that I thought'll be staying nicely with a statement in a higher tier, but apparently not, since EE really sucks. Even with that, this sets looks so fun at beating slower and stallier teams that doesnt really have something to hit Golisopod hard enough. Aqua Jet compensates for its bad Spe stat and gets huge chunks on faster mons that doesnt resist after an SD. Sub is when you want to dodge possible status that might hinder this sets effectiveness, but brings you down closer to EE range, however. AJ is just a better option after all and more effective in this meta imo. Evs used are to maximize damage output while having the longetivity to set-up SD. Spe EVs is for outspeeding my fave benchmark Plume!! or uninvested based 50's. Might not be the best set, but is still fun to use to break bulkier builds.

Golisopod also has a lot of nice options on its moves like what has been brought up by other people like Spikes and First Impression. Spikes especially seems to be a very good support option as it helps a lot in this offensive meta to wear things down faster. First impression is basically a Fake Out with no flinch under steroids. Not sure if it will be very good though it seems cool.

some calcs

+2 252+ Atk Golisopod Leech Life vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Vileplume: 223-264 (62.9 - 74.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
+2 252+ Atk Golisopod Aqua Jet vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Ribombee: 211-249 (80.8 - 95.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252+ Atk Golisopod Leech Life vs. 252 HP / 244+ Def Gastrodon: 258-304 (60.5 - 71.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252+ Atk Golisopod Leech Life vs. 252 HP / 88+ Def Gourgeist-Large: 199-235 (56.2 - 66.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252+ Atk Golisopod Aqua Jet vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tauros: 145-172 (49.8 - 59.1%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO
+2 252+ Atk Golisopod Liquidation vs. 252 HP / 240+ Def Miltank: 208-246 (52.7 - 62.4%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Golisopod might be slow and has the worst of abilities, but it offers a good amount of Offensive and Defensive Utility, as well as Support, to be respectable in NU.

 

[ChrystalFalchion]

Damn miscounted. Oh well, it still outruns Sceptile at +2. What exactly does Earthquake hit? I suppose it lets you beat Assault Vest Lanturn if you're not running Z-Draco Meteor.

SD Golisopod is a solid option, could be good to take down slower teams. Personally I'd run Lum Berry but that's just me - I think Emergency Exit triggers before you can eat the Sitrus Berry.

 

[Skelos]

Damn miscounted. Oh well, it still outruns Sceptile at +2. What exactly does Earthquake hit? I suppose it lets you beat Assault Vest Lanturn if you're not running Z-Draco Meteor.

SD Golisopod is a solid option, could be good to take down slower teams. Personally I'd run Lum Berry but that's just me - I think Emergency Exit triggers before you can eat the Sitrus Berry.

EQ hits AV Magmortar and Lanturn and other scores some koes on other Fire/Electric types as well. Berries are eaten first before EE afaik.

 

[poh]

I think Choice Specs Vikavolt would run Volt Switch instead of another coverage move. Pretty much all Choiced Electric types do that to grab momentum. It could also use relatively slow Volt Switches to safely bring in a teammate. I think Vikavolt's sets right now would be:

Vikavolt @ Choice Specs
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe or 196 HP / 252 SpA / 60 Spe (outruns uninvested base 50s)
Modest Nature
- Bug Buzz
- Thunderbolt
- Energy Ball / Hidden Power Ice
- Volt Switch

I think Choice Specs isn't a suitable item for Vikavolt as its stabs aren't really moves you want to be locked in. The reason why is that it makes it very easy for your opponent to pivot into a mon that resists one of its moves. Bug alone is resisted by a multitude of types (7 in total) and electric gives your opponent a free switch into ever-present ground types and bulky grasses. Ofcourse that doesn't take away that Vikavolt can hit extremely hard. Just a thought.

I agree that Dragonium Z on Alolan Exeggutor is a good alternative to either life orb, a resist berry or even specs.

Qwilfish @ Black Sludge
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 HP / 200 Def / 56 Spe
Jolly / Timid Nature
- Waterfall / Scald
- Spikes
- Toxic Spikes / Destiny Bond
- Taunt

As far as I know RU hasn't been using this like at all. Qwilfish looks like it'll be very useful since we'll get a lot of new Fighting types. Garbodor was one of our main spikers and fighting checks but I think this might give it a bit of competition. First of all the utility it offers you is amazing. Starting off with its ability, it can switch on a variety of physically offensive mons and force the switch so you can set up spikes. Scald got nerfed this gen but getting random burns is always a plus. The biggest asset it has over Garbodor is Taunt. You basically outspeed all the relevant Defoggers bar defog shiftry so you prevent them blowing away your hazards. Taunt is also useful to prevent a slower mon from setting up since Qwil sits at a decent speed tier. Its speed also supports another utility aspect it has in Destiny Bond. Garbodor has better special bulk and a more colorful movepool to lure stuff but I think that Qwil will be very interesting once we'll get it.

 

[Evan.]

best vikavolt set is gonna be defensive by a mile, its too slow to really be a great breaker despite its offensive stats but having a decent typing / ability along with surprisingly good bulk, a pivot move and reliable recovery makes it dope

new mons are cool and all but im looking forward to staples from early last gen like qwil, seismitoad, sceptile, sneasel, tomb (now that we're projected to get some fairies) and uxie (uxie in particular b/c super uxie seems dope w/ some kinda z force behind one of its attking moves) coming back to where they belong

also trick room is bad and inconsistent and it always will be as long as it stays at 5 turns, otr mons are ok (otr wp mesprit PogChamp) but stop hyping it beyond that please

 

[ChrystalFalchion]

best vikavolt set is gonna be defensive by a mile, its too slow to really be a great breaker despite its offensive stats but having a decent typing / ability along with surprisingly good bulk, a pivot move and reliable recovery makes it dope

new mons are cool and all but im looking forward to staples from early last gen like qwil, seismitoad, sceptile, sneasel, tomb (now that we're projected to get some fairies) and uxie (uxie in particular b/c super uxie seems dope w/ some kinda z force behind one of its attking moves) coming back to where they belong

also trick room is bad and inconsistent and it always will be as long as it stays at 5 turns, otr mons are ok (otr wp mesprit PogChamp) but stop hyping it beyond that please

Disagree about Vikavolt. It's typing isn't good defensively, giving it common fire and rock weaknesses including Stealth Rock. It can use Agility to boost its Speed - it can outrun 135s at +2 if using a Timid Nature. As for being too slow to wall break, Golem can run a good band set and isn't much faster 45 vs 43 I think. It does have much better offensive typing though.

 

[Skelos]

Disagree about Vikavolt. It's typing isn't good defensively, giving it common fire and rock weaknesses including Stealth Rock. It can use Agility to boost its Speed - it can outrun 135s at +2 if using a Timid Nature. As for being too slow to wall break, Golem can run a good band set and isn't much faster 45 vs 43 I think. It does have much better offensive typing though.

Yeah agility mitigates the slow speed, letting it outspeed the entire non-scarf meta.

But I highly disagree that it doesnt have a good defensive typing. It's one of Vikavolt's most splashable set when we're testing stuff out in the sm wishlist meta. First, its typing makes it resist the ever common and prominent fighting types in the tier. Levitate gives it also a good utility to take on ground-type attacks. Surprisingly, its stats may not look like it at a glance, but when maxed out in HP and Def with a bold nature, this serves as one of the most solid checks for the fighting types in the tier (Not even 2HKOed by scarf primeape's stone edge), and also tanks a number of neutral physical hits as well. Volt switch also makes it a good slow pivot, safely delivering its teammates while being able to tank a lot of hits. Even with no investment, Vikavolt still hits hard enough to dent a lot of things with good damage, and still lays its shit on physical walls, being able to 2HKO miltank in example. Oh did i say it can roost?

To sum it up, yes, it may be weak to the common fire-types/ rock-types and slow, it serves as the best (one of the, if not) fighting resist in the tier and is hardly hurt by their coverage moves. It's above average Defense and HP Stat makes it a solid physical wall as well, taking 1-2 (Depends on roll) Rock Climbs from tauros in example. Being an efficient slow pivot is also a good essential in BO / Balanced teams. Defensive Vikavolt is just an excellent mon all in all (no biases or something).

 

[ojr]

Vikavolt @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate/Rocky Helmet
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Discharge/Volt Switch
- Roost
- Toxic
- Energy Ball
This set could be good like Skelos :) said spreading status and being a nice pivot
Discharge is nice to paralyze (spreading status) and Volt switch is nice for pivoting.
Roost is just good recovery, what do I need to say?
Toxic is also spreading status and nice for bulkier threads.
Energy Ball is good for ground types.
You could run Leftovers or Rocky Helmet, Rocky Helmet is nice because of most fighting types have contact moves: Punching moves, Close Combat and High Jump Kick

 

[ChrystalFalchion]

Just to add - Talonflame's been banned from RU.

I haven't seen much of Braviary at all in RU, so I wonder if it will come back down. It was NU in BW2, but with the buff to Defog Defiant is much more threatening now.