CAP Updates: Arghonaut Discussion (Complete)

[DarkSlay]

RESULTS OF ABILITY POLL 1
Competitive Ability: 35
No Competitive Ability: 1

Therefore, Arghonaut (with overwhelming support) will be getting a second ability and the ability may be a competitive ability!

---

Step 2B: Ability Update - Competitive Ability Discussion

Now that we've established the boundaries in which we're working in for an ability update, let's get into some discussion on potential abilities for Arghonaut. Here are some of my initial thoughts in which to help frame some of your own comments and suggestions:

• Given that Arghonaut is naturally bulky and given our desire to give Arghonaut some utility, purely offensive abilities are suspect. Now, this does not mean that I'll be ruling out abilities that boost Argh's offensive prowess. Some suggestions have been fine. However, I do believe that abilities that provide a blanket power up for Arghonaut's attacks just both doesn't fit the mold of Arghonaut AND isn't as beneficial to Arghonaut as other potential abilities. Keep in mind the role we want Arghonaut to play just as much as keeping in mind things in which Arghonaut can or cannot hit.
• Arghonaut would benefit more from concrete effects rather than temporary effects. What does this mean? I believe that Arghonaut is kind of like a glue, one that can hit pretty hard and take on certain threats in general. Therefore, I'm not a fan of things like weather-reliant abilities or Terrain-reliant abilities. The need to completely shift Arghonaut into one of these team archetypes simply isn't needed, and there are better options out there.
• Remember, we want an ability that aims to be AS GOOD AS Unaware, and not something outright better. Keep this in mind when giving suggestions.
  
• Be creative! Ability suggestions are narrowing yet open, which promotes discussion. If you find a competitive and/or flavor ability that would truly be beneficial for Arghonaut, then open up discussion for it. This is similar to our own normal CAP creation process. The more diverse and thorough the conversation, the better!

Instead of giving questions, since we're getting more specific, I will start off the suggestion phase with three common ability suggestions I have seen used in discussion (Showdown!'s CAP room). I do not outright support any of these abilities just yet, but rather will comment on their positives that have been discussed. You may comment on these three abilities as you see fit, and you may also suggest your own ideas as you see fit (within reason).

• Sap Sipper: Sap Sipper, otherwise known as "Rum Sipper" for Arghonaut, sounds odd at first, given that it would essentially make a Water-type CAP outright immune to a weakness. However, the notion revolves around giving Arghonaut a broader amount of things to switch into while also increasing its Attack if given good prediction. This would enable it to beat or "better beat" Pokemon such as Tapu Bulu, Pyroak, Stratagem, Leech Seed abusers (including Flying STAB-less Celesteela), and other potential targets. This provides good defensive utility paired with limited offensive utility, and allows Arghonaut to "de-centralize" a certain sect of the metagame. It pairs well with Unaware, and gives players a legitimate choice as to what to choose. It could be a viable choice.
  
• Rough Skin/Iron Barbs: Rough Skin/Iron Barbs is an interesting ability for Arghonaut, giving it an additional tool against strong Physical threats in the metagame. Additional residual damage would stack on with potential hazard damage and hazard control, which helps with Arghonaut's utility. Furthermore, this would dis-incentivize certain threats from throwing out contact moves, most notably prominent U-Turn users like Pheromosa and Mega Scizor. Rough Skin/Iron Barbs is a good ability that is solid overall and plays well with Unaware. It could be a viable choice.
  
• Technician: Technician is an example of a normally offensive-based ability potentially having some overall utility for Arghonaut. Technician would currently give some more "oomph" to certain priority moves in Arghonaut's disposal, which may help with its naturally slow Speed. However, Technician's true value may come to light in the future additions to Arghonaut's movepool, which could give it access things like a Tech-boosted phazing move or Tech-boosted status infliction move. This one takes some foresight, but it could be a viable choice.

NOTE: While "polljumping" is still discouraged, if your ability suggest mandates potential moves for examples of how said ability can be useful, I will allow it within reason.

Have at it! This discussion will close in 72 hours, which should give everyone ample time to bring up and discuss abilities.

 

[NumberCruncher]

I've always thought Poison Touch could be nice on Arghonaut. It both increases residual damage and gives extra oomph to Argh's utility moves, essentially having the advantages of both Iron Barb and Technician as stated above, with the drawback of being luck based. However, it procks 30% of the time, so it's about as good a chance as Scald burn, so as anybody who's fished for Scald burns can tell you, those odds aren't that bad if you can set it up multiple times. It also makes mon's like Mega-Sableye more wary of switching in.

 

[reachzero]

Flavor-wise they're a tough sell, but competitively two possibilities that would be a perfect fit are Flame Body and Effect Spore. Arghonaut is a top-flight switch into U-turn, and punishing U-turn would be a good update on Arghonaut's "Decentralizer" theme, considering how effective U-turn is in the present metagame. I would support Iron Barbs on the same reasoning, but Flame Body and Effect Spore raise the punishment to a higher and better level. This also allows Arghonaut to better counter the stuff that it counters without unduly destroying it's counters--most of Arghonaut's counters are special attackers.

 

[Deck Knight]

Flame Body creates a lot of mirror match problems with Arghonaut, so that is something to be wary of. Effect Spore is just... horrible. You can't control what status it gives and you're basically praying for Sleep or Para instead of Poison.

In addition to Tech which I argued for previously, there's another technically-offensive but enables support ability Argh could use: Scrappy.

And for similar reasons to why it is so great on Mega Lopunny, as it allows Arghonaut to hit Mega Sableye with super-effective Fighting STAB. While Arghonaut has to avoid an initial Prankster Wisp, Max Atk+ Drain Punch outpaces Recover, and if you went with Sub + Focus Punch Mega Sab is KO'd outright.

Additionally, this means Circle Throw no longer has any immunities so you're free to phaze M-Sable (or Rev, or Necturna, or Kit) too. For purely defensive sets, Scrappy would give the same benefit to Seismic Toss, a Fighting attack Lopunny is to frail to use but which Argonaut could conceivably make use of. Scald/Seismic Toss/<Support>/Recover could find quite a few uses. The same applies to Counter, as again Arghonaut can actually tank a hit and return the damage.

While Scrappy seems modest compared to other abilities, Unaware is similarly modest in this Gen as to what it can accomplish, and Scrappy is situational enough to not be a direct superior replacement to Unaware in all matches.

 

[Mova]

Among the three Abilities already given, I would have to tip my hat for Rough Skin. Arghonaut has higher Special Defense than Defense, so this could scare physical attackers from using contact moves *cough, U-turn, cough* on it unless said Pokémon have Mold Breaker. Pheromosa and Mega Scizor are big offenders with U-turn, so this Ability could push such physical attackers away. Tapu Bulu will be discouraged by Sap Sipper due to the guardian deity's strange lack of Play Rough as well, so that's also a decent defensive choice. Arghonaut sipping some rum during battle sounds amusing as well.

 

[snake]

For reference, these are the relevant Pokemon that Arghonaut can check/counter with Sap Sipper:

Mega Crucibelle - forced to pivot
Pyroak - can still burn Argho
Malaconda - can knock off or glare, forced to pivot
Necturna - can burn, forced to pivot
Ferrothorn - forced to switch
Kartana - Psycho Cut still hits it, but it needs boosts to OHKO
Tangrowth - can knock off
Tapu Bulu - forced to switch (RIP no Play Rough)
Mega Venusaur - can still use Sludge Bomb

Also messes with Breloom and Serperior, but those aren't used that often nowadays.

Most of these mons' other attacks don't do enough damage to an invested Arghonaut, but it depends on if you go defensive, specially defensive, or neither. Not really sure where I stand with this ability given that Arghonaut is still weak to Electric-, Psychic-, and Flying-type moves, all common in the metagame. Additionally, Arghonaut doesn't ignore boosted targets anymore. Still, this would be a REALLY powerful ability.

 

[Bughouse]

Absolute hard stop on Sap Sipper. Don't be ridiculous. A surprising type immunity is entirely unnecessary here. Arghonaut is not Mollux.

 

[Alchemister]

There are two of the Gen7 abilities I'd like to bring attention to:

Because Argho dreads most of the status, but can deal with other residual damage, one option would be him to actually become Status absorber a prime Scald switchin with Comatose. Being immune to Toxic and Burns, mostly, can help Argho's utilitarian longevity and let him sit into quite a significant portion of attacks, while getting trouble with boosted attackers, creating an interesting teambuilding option. Also, he'd still die to strong moves he's weak to (what a surprise, right; and those are quite common), making him easily wearable down by sheer power. Also, with Comatose, Bulk Up and Recover, he'd be able to carve himself a niche as a stallbreaker against full stall without enough phasing/HazeHawk. Also, a pirate having drunk so much rum he ended in coma, yet still moving, seems like a common enough piracy practice and feels funny.

Another option comes with again fighting U-Turns, but this time not by directly punishing them (you can use Rocky Helmet for that anyway), but by creating awkward switching options for your opponent, limiting his choices. That is Stamina, complimeting Argho's natural bulk as an anti-physical option, allowing for preparing for the incoming Special hitter. Might also create a phaser/punisher with potential Circle Throw and Assault Vest after switching into physical stuff.

 

[david0895]

• Sap sipper: I like this idea, since Water/Fighting is a good offensive type
• Rough Skin: Except U-turn, I think that there's not so many physical moves that Arghonaut can take well
• Technician: the idea seems good, but I prefer to know which moves we want to add it, before give my opinion about this

 

[Drapionswing]

While having a discussion with snake_rattler it came to our attention that, while a big mess of abilities would be nice there is no defined role we want argho to take on. I think that it's really difficult to pick and ability for arghonaut and justify why it's better than another ability if there's no role we have established. This is evident in some of the suggested abilities; we have a defensive ability in sap sipper and an offensive ability in technician, two abilities with no similarity and no similar intended goal.

Hopefully if we do define what we want argho to gain/do from these updates we will be able to use that as a sturdy guideline.

 

[snake]

To add one what Drapionswing said, I believe it'd be wise to create a general list of what mons we want to check with Arghonaut, similar to the Checks and Counters phase from the CAP process. This way, we know what the secondary ability should accomplish without having to guess like we are now.

 

[Agile Turtle]

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that Sap Sipper will overshadow unaware. It gives it an immunity with a potential attack boost, and although it no longer ignores opponent's boosts, not a lot of common setup sweepers these days are bothered by argho. Sure it handles Charx and Syclant, but some of the best setup mons like Aurumoth and Cawmodore don't care at all.

 

[DarkSlay]

Just a heads up, due to a big test I'm taking tomorrow morning, this discussion will be extended until Monday at 10:00 AM EST.

I will try to post my comments to responses some point after my test tomorrow. Thanks for your patience!

 

[DarkSlay]

Okay, sorry for the delay everyone.

First, I want to make this absolutely clear: Arghonaut is a bulky attacker who is aiming for a utility purpose. What that utility will be may be decided later on in the movepool process, but the word "utility" involves things like phazing, hazards, anti-hazards, pivoting, stat weakening, etc.. This is Arghonaut's purpose. Keep that in mind.

Also, I don't see much purpose in making a threat list (I talked to snake about this). Basic knowledge of the metagame should be showing what Arghonaut is strong against and what Arghonaut is weak against. For all intents and purposes, we are merely going from here on out in the frame of "how can we make Arghonaut more viable", using its current threatlist of Pokemon as an example. Do we give it more power? Do we give it an ability that can help it against a certain section of Pokemon? Do we give it more residual damage capacity? Do we mitigate its lesser stats through moves or abilities? These are the questions you need to be asking.

To be frank, I don't think we have enough discussion or opinions yet on certain abilities for the poll. So far, I am convinced that two abilities meet the criteria for agreement to be added to the poll list:

Iron Barbs
Technician

However, there are three abilities that have had either mixed discussion or not enough discussion for me to decide on their inclusion in the poll. I want to hear more discussion on these three abilities

Sap Sipper
Scrappy
Flame Body (NOTE: I want to hear the /competitive/ rationale behind this ability. Flavor is a determinant, but should be utilized in your votes, NOT in competitive discussion.)

A poll will be put up in the next 48 hours. Until then, please discuss the remaining abilities up for slating.

 

[david0895]

I really like Sap Sipper, since it allows Arghonaut to counter a lot of Grass types (Bulu, Tangrowth, Malaconda, Pyroak, ecc...)

Scrappy allows to hit and Necturna and Mega Sableye, but out of this, I can't see other serious usage.

As a random ability, I don't like Flame Body, because nobody can control its effect.
Also is generally inferior to other abilities, only Volcarona use it beacuse Swarm is even inferior

 

[jas61292]

I am not a fan of Sap Sipper at all. I feel like this ability goes way too far in changing Arghonaut. I understand that Argho needs some changes to be viable in the current meta, but there is a big difference between some new utility or some new coverage, and suddenly hard countering Pokemon that used to be relatively hard counters to you. Obviously hard countering Tapu Bulu and Pyroak would be a big boost to Argho's viability. But if we are doing that I feel we are really completely ditching the entire essence of Argho as it exists. I think our goal should be to improve what Argho does, and give it a bit more general purpose utility. Not completely redefine it. And I feel Sap Sipper just goes too far in that direction.

Scrappy is an interesting option. I really don't think it is going to do too much to help Argho though. Yeah, it would be able to slam Mega Sableye hard with fighting moves, and I guess getting a neutral STAB hit in on Necturna is nice. But the ability to hit ghosts is otherwise not the relevant when Argho has a perfectly usable STAB that can already do so. I know Deck brought up Circle Throw with Scrappy, but I don't think that is that big a help for the move. Sure, you can use it on Mega Sableye as he mentioned, but doing so just means you could be burned or something before you even get your move off. Really, unless we are giving Argho Rapid Spin, I really don't see the attraction of this ability. I don't see it as problematic, sure, but I don't see the attraction either.

As for Flame Body... well... as strange as it would be, I don't think it is necessarily a bad option. Discouraging contact moves, especially U-Turn would be a nice boost to it, and is one of the few options that I feel provide a solid competitive option without necessarily being better or worse than Unaware. Its the same basic reasoning why Iron Barbs/Rough Skin is a good option, but with a slightly different effect.

 

[Reviloja753]

There are two of the Gen7 abilities I'd like to bring attention to:

Because Argho dreads most of the status, but can deal with other residual damage, one option would be him to actually become Status absorber a prime Scald switchin with Comatose. Being immune to Toxic and Burns, mostly, can help Argho's utilitarian longevity and let him sit into quite a significant portion of attacks, while getting trouble with boosted attackers, creating an interesting teambuilding option. Also, he'd still die to strong moves he's weak to (what a surprise, right; and those are quite common), making him easily wearable down by sheer power. Also, with Comatose, Bulk Up and Recover, he'd be able to carve himself a niche as a stallbreaker against full stall without enough phasing/HazeHawk. Also, a pirate having drunk so much rum he ended in coma, yet still moving, seems like a common enough piracy practice and feels funny.

Another option comes with again fighting U-Turns, but this time not by directly punishing them (you can use Rocky Helmet for that anyway), but by creating awkward switching options for your opponent, limiting his choices. That is Stamina, complimeting Argho's natural bulk as an anti-physical option, allowing for preparing for the incoming Special hitter. Might also create a phaser/punisher with potential Circle Throw and Assault Vest after switching into physical stuff.

I'm with you on this one. I'm a fan of Comatose. Being immune to burn and poison gives it a prime spot as a VoltTurn recipient to sponge Scald and absorb Toxic. It is passive, but it adds to Argo's utility overall, while giving it a sort of offensive boost as well without having to worry about burn. It is about equal to Unaware as Comatose Argo would become weak to Nasty Plot Doom among others (although you could just run HazeHawk alongside it). I'm also in favor of Rough Skin (Makes sense on it an adds to utility and opens up a Rocky Helmet set), Scrappy (For the same reasons as people have said in other posts above. I have nothing to really add), or Technician (Boosted priority and such is useful).

 

[sparktrain]

Hard no to Sap Sipper. I don't like the idea of giving Arghonaut the ability to hard counter a group of Pokemon it was formerly countered by. I can understand why it's tempting to give Arghonaut an immunity ability, but this just seems like the wrong way to be approaching viability-related updates. There are other methods of increasing Arghonaut's viability without taking the easy way out, and remember, our goal isn't to make every underwhelming CAP into a top threat. If Arghonaut ends up being a niche, but still useful pick for teams rather than being dead weight in most battles, then we've succeeded.

Scrappy doesn't seem terribly helpful to Arghonaut for the reasons jas already mentioned, so I'll hold off on rehashing those here.

I'm not a huge fan of Flame Body purely because it's a hax ability, but it's more reasonable than the other two question abilities listed. It has a valid competitive function (dissuading U-turn spam among other contact moves) without going overboard by slapping an immunity ability on it. However, we already have Iron Barbs on the slate, which accomplishes this goal without being a luck-based ability. Tossing Flame Body into the mix is unnecessary.

 

[cbrevan]

I think people are seriously underestimating how powerful of an ability Sap Sipper is. We're literally removing one of Arghonauts weakness with it, and more importantly, we're making it a check to the pokemon that used to be its check. Immunity abilities are powerful abilities because of the way they punish simply clicking moves, and this effect will be even more severe on Arghonaut because of how drastically it will change the way Arghoaut functions in its interaction with various Pokemon. Just take a look at snake_rattler's post for a good look at the number of matchups Sap Sipper just swings completely into Arghonauts favor. It's an incredibly lazy approach to buffing Arghonaut that for all intents and purposes, may as well be a change to its typing. As if that isn't enough, completely reversing a group of checks to Arghonaut just throws whatever scrap of identity it has out the window. In short, Sap Sipper would be a terrible choice for a competitive ability because it just tramples on whatever identity Arghonaut has for the sake of being a generically good.

Onto the other suggestions, Scrappy seems to be relatively useless compared to Unaware. If you look at the matchups it helps with, it only notably changes the matchup with Mega Sableye, which is flawed for the reasons Jas pointed out in his post. On top of all this, Arghonaut already has access to Knock Off. If Arghonaut wanted to punish Ghost-types, it would run the super effective and spammable move to do so, or just run a Dark-type as a partner. At the very least, Scrappy is more situational and useless than Unaware simply because you're more likely to run into a setup sweeper than Sableye.

Iron Barbs and Rough Skin are another set of abilities people are seriously underestimating. If you take a look at the pool of pokemon with access to either ability, you'd notice that none of them have access to reliable recovery. Ferrothorn is the only one that comes close through Leech Seed, and it's a considerably difficult pokemon to break through on the physical side due to how much chip damage it can dish out. Now lets take a look at Arghonaut, which has very respectable 105/95/100 defenses and reliable recovery move through Recovery, with a set of resistances to common physical moves such as Knock Off and U-turn on top of that. What I'm getting at is that when paired with a Rocky Helmet, if a physical attacker cannot do enough damage to break through Arghonaut in under four turns, then it will kill itself from the residual damage, provided of course it is making contact. That seems like a crazy sort of clock to put on a Pokemon. Normally, this isn't a problem because most Rough Skin and Iron Barb users can be worn down relatively quickly, but Arghonaut has the ability to heal itself over and over again to rack up as much residual damage as possible. I'm not sure if this would break Arghonaut, since of course not every Pokemon is a physical attacker using contact moves, but I doubt it is a combination that would prove fun or rewarding to play against.

Flame Body seems underwhelming to me. I'm not a fan of abilities that are dependent on rolls because those abilities are situational and, simply put, not enjoyable to play against. Winning a game off that 30% chance you had to burn the opponents Pheromosa is not rewarding for either player, and that 70% chance of not doing anything is not worth the ability slot. If we really want Arghonaut to spread burns, we should be giving it Scald instead of this ability. Simply put, Flame Body has an effect we can achieve through a single move that won't burn a valuable ability slot.

Technician is an option but it's not exactly stellar either, it would most likely be powering up priority moves and maybe Circle/Storm Throw, but at the very least its an effect the Arghonaut user can guarantee as opposed to the other proposed abilities. It's hard to say what exactly this ability would do because of how movepool dependent it is, but I'm not afraid of us breaking Arghonaut with it.

All in all, I believe Sap Sipper does too much in changing match ups to be a legitimate ability for an update. Both Scrappy and Flame Body are low end options that essentially burn an ability slot for an effect we could achieve through movepool additions. Iron Barbs/Rough Skin are the two abilities that would best fit the bulky utility role Darkslay has laid out, but the potential of abuse when combined with Recover is high. Technician seems to be the middle ground between disappointing and overwhelming which makes it the most appealing option for me of the five proposed abilities.

 

[LucarioOfLegends]

I'm very much interested in Alchemister's suggestion for Comatose. A key part of the idea of utility is being able to consistently come in and execute these utility options. Arghonaut already has the access to reliable recovery, but cannot do much in the face of status, especially burns. Comatose removes this status issue for Arghonaut, as it pretty much gains status immunity. This means it can now function as a status absorber for the team, adding an element of utility to merely switching in. It also helps it in offensive ways as well, as it no longer has to worry about the prospect of random Scald burns. Just an interesting option in general. Rough Skin is a shoe-in at this point: it functions the same as Iron Barbs and makes much more sense flavor-fully. Scrappy is certainly a strong ability offensively, but not sure what it does for Arghonaut specifically, other than be able to punch Mega Sableye and Necturna. Flame Body is pretty much random hax, and doesn't really do much for it utility-wise. Pretty sure it's outclassed by other suggested abilities. Certainly on the train against Sap Sipper, as it just seems like cheap viablity a little bit. It allows it to beat its supposed checks that it definetely shouldn't beat, such as Tapu Bulu and Pyroak. While certainly decentralizing the metagame, its also what makes Cawmodore (in Volt Absorb) and pre-update Tomohawk (in Earth Power) especially strong. Really don't like it as an option. Technician falls under the same category as Scrappy for me, as it is certainly strong offensively, boosting stuff like Aqua Jet. Not sure what else it does other than some niche options though, as we would have to give Arghonaut some other priority to really capitalize on the ability. Also have trouble seeing what it does for Arghonaut utility-wise, as that is a major part of our focus.

Really interested to see if more Comatose discussion can pick up, as it could be a really interesting option. Otherwise, probably on the boat of Rough Skin/Iron Barbs, as it seems to fit a middle ground between borderline useless and hilariously overpowered.

 

[Wenderz]

I support Technician as an abilty for Arghonaut, even though we'll need to give him some move like Circle Throw (or even Icicle Spear, for instance) later in order to make him to truly effective (but in this case, it will probably suffer from 4MSS, as ever), especially since Arghonaut has the stats and movepool to be an efficient Tank. Unaware is already an excellent defensive ability allowing Argho to take care of the like of Syclant, Zard-X and Volcarona (although Water/Type isn't the best type for such a Wall because of Aurumoth, Lando-T, Salamence, Necturna...). So an offensive ability seems appealing to me, Argo is able to take hit, but currently struggles to break through a plenty of defensive Mon, despite his movepool and stats.

Comatose seems to be a good choice too, as it will allow to switch on the like of Mollux, No bloom Doom Heatran, Chansey and Toxapex with little to no fear, the only thing that bothers it's that Argho can't stop Zygarde without both ignoring his boost and being immune to poison, so I'd tend to choose a move like Refresh later instead.

Scrappy, as already said above, doesn't seem very useful, even with Rapid Spin.

Rough Skin could work, especially since Arghonaut can heal himself, and punish U-turn spammer like Syclant, Volkraken and Scizor. I don't think it's too OP neither.

Sap Sipper, however, is too much in my opinion as it gives a lot of better match-up against his current check.

Flame Body doesn't help Argho a lot, and it' rely on hax, so I'm against it.

My favorite is Technician, followed by Comatose then Rough Skin. None of them seems too OP or completely useless (except the first one if we don't custom Argho's movepool).

 

[Deck Knight]

I'm warming to the idea of Comatose as a complimentary ability to Unaware, seeing as it makes Argh ignore status instead of stat-ups. There are multiple ways to play around status, but I think Ability is best and specifically one that doesn't require switching (Natural Cure) or luck (Shed Skin) to work.

If we add Haze and Clear Smog into Arghonaut's movepool to complement this Ability, then Argonaut's choice is between ignoring stat-ups and using a move for status or ignoring status and using a move for stat-ups.

This makes Arghonaut's standard sets look something like STAB/Coverage/Support/Recover, which seems in keeping with how we want Arghonaut to function.

 

[Blackdrakon30]

I'm warming to the idea of Comatose as a complimentary ability to Unaware, seeing as it makes Argh ignore status instead of stat-ups. There are multiple ways to play around status, but I think Ability is best and specifically one that doesn't require switching (Natural Cure) or luck (Shed Skin) to work.

If we add Haze and Clear Smog into Arghonaut's movepool to complement this Ability, then Argonaut's choice is between ignoring stat-ups and using a move for status or ignoring status and using a move for stat-ups.

This makes Arghonaut's standard sets look something like STAB/Coverage/Support/Recover, which seems in keeping with how we want Arghonaut to function.

I just want to say real quick that I definitely agree. I'd say that Comatose is the ideal choice for a defensive/utility ability out of our options as it matches with our chosen roles for him best, while Technician suits Arghonaut best if we want it to have more offensive presence.

 

[Reviloja753]

I just want to say real quick that I definitely agree. I'd say that Comatose is the ideal choice for a defensive/utility ability out of our options as it matches with our chosen roles for him best, while Technician suits Arghonaut best if we want it to have more offensive presence.

While it doesn't help it offensively directly, Comatose also gives Argo the benefit of burn immunity, so Prankster Will-O-Wisp isn't a problem.

 

[david0895]

About Comatose, explain me how this set will not be broken

Arghonaut @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Comatose
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Roar
- Sleep Talk

Only three pokémon are fast enough to outspeed it (not counting priority moves/abilities): Pheromosa, Mega Alakazam and Mega Beedrill.
And in any case, this strat can't be countered (that's why this ability+Sleep Talk is banned in BH)