SM OU No duggy this time around! KYUREM HYPER STALL! (Peaked #1) (1998+)

Do you think that kyurem is a reliable option!?


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Hi Smogon!

Ever since the emergence of Tapus, Alolan-forms, Gen 7 brand new pokemons and the Z stones, the OU-Tier has experienced drastic changes, forcing competitors to make adjustments in their current or previous teams one way or another. In the defensive end of the meta-game, one pokemon that stood out among the others was Toxapex, which led people to come to a realization that, a single pokemon is actually capable of serving as a Boost neutralizer (by running haze), taking massive amount of damage without having to worry about recovery (due to Regenerator), forcing switch ins (by setting up Toxic Spikes), crippling physical attackers with scald spam and last but not least, it also gets recovery coverage! Which broght me to the foregone conclusion of pairing Toxapex alongside Kyurem + certified stall pokemons (Mega-Sableye, Chansey, Clefable, Skarmory...). But yet is known this stall team has been built with Dugtrio as opposed to Kyurem, with that being said, Kyurem is the defensive prowess I'm gonna be doing an In-depth Analysis down below.

The team



It seems to me there haven't been more competitors intending to run Kyurem as a defensive viability. Although Kyurem was last seen in late ORAS with a balance team featuring mega Abomasnow, Heatran, Landorus-T, etc,. specially for being an offensive Stab moves attacker (Ice beam + Dragon pulse) and a pressure user (substitute + roost), but because of it was overshadowed by more versatile pressure users such as Zapdos, Suicune, etc,. it is the reason why Kyurem is considered to be way less functional in the "PP reducer Slot". Thus, Kyurem is portrayed as a liability, this team excels at being extraordinaire at "PP Stalling" Stall teams by combining 48 PP Haze from Toxapex, 32 PP Spikes from Skarmory and 32 PP Seismic toss/ Stealth rock from Chansey. In addition to that, Kyurem serves as a pressure punisher, reducing PP from low pace pokemons. When it comes to balance teams, the team itself offers ample variety of hazards and solid defensive prowess that can disrupt the tempo. Against Hyper Offensive is really appreciated not to allow hazard to cripple your defensive pokemons, as you keep them healthy and status-free it is able to decimate Hyper Offensive teams at its entirety.

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Team breakdown
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Kyurem
Bag_Leftovers_Sprite.png

Kyurem @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 124 Def / 132 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Ice Beam
- Roost
- Substitute
- Earth Power

At first glance, the first question that would come to your mind is: where's duggy at? But in reality, It's true! 5 out of the 6 pokemons that are being used in solid stall team featuring Dugtrio. So the differences between one and another is more than evident. As opposed to running a trapper in Dugtrio, I decided to take advantage of kyurem's services, and I am going to explain exactly why. Not only It's got jaw-dropping 660 BST, but also its well distributed stats makes it an impressive substitute/roost user. While subbed, It launches hard-hitting stab move in Ice beam and cripple common ground/steel type pokemons with Earth power due to Its 130 Sp.Atk. In the defensive end, 125 HP helps it out to remain subbed when attacked by Seismic Toss (22%) enabling it to punish PP, deal damage and 1/16 recovery from Leftovers will only keep on restoring. Now let's talk about stat investment. The 252 HP 124 Def Bold Nature [90 Def BS] is pretty much intended to survive hits such as 1% Reversal from dugtrio (deals 71%), Meteor Mash mega-Metagross and hard hitting stone edge users like Tapu Bulu and Landorus. I also would like to mention that It walls shadow bone Alolan-Marowak and still capable of revenge kill with earth power. In the other end, Sp. Def, I decided to invest 132 [90 Sp.Def BS] because it is effective against moonblast users with not much offensive prowess to offer such as Tapu fini, Clefable, and Air slash from defensive invested Celesteela, also it's invested that way for being a better PP reducer, eating Scalds, hard-hitting eletric moves, weak flamethrower more likely from Celesteela and Clefable, and last but not least, this investment put it in position to prevent Sp. Atk offensive threats from developing like Greninja, Magma storm Heatran (so that heatran don't cripple Toxapex nor Chansey anymore) and magearna (if well played with the subs/roost gamble). I didn't invest in 95 Spe Base stat because understood that it still outspeeds Taunt Tapu fini and most of the low pace pokemons, allowing Kyurem to substitute and prevent status from functioning and moves will just have their PP reduced. Finally, let me bring the gameplan to the table. Kyurem have to be run in a way that you punish with pressure those pokemon that don't have much to offer offensively (or may be with decent offense) so that their PPs commence to reduce in big portions. Also Kyurem serves as Magma Storm absorber and dugtrio 1% reversal resistant, and therefore, Chansey and Toxapex are now able to unleash their full defensive prowess. When kyurem is subbed, it 2KO Mega-Metagross with earth power, despatch Alolan Marowak with ease, Mega-Mawile can also be eliminated when it's at 70% HP. Kyurem is suggested to be sent against Greninja, Tapu fini, Tapu bulu, Magma Storm Heatran, Celesteela, Alolan Marowak, and other pokemons that Kyurem itself can handle on its own. It is recommended to avoid status and leech seed setters, or at least prevent them from affecting you. Control the way you waste your PPs as all of Kyurem's move are on the 16 PP margin. Gamble and bait the substitute/roost/ice beam/ earth power game pretty decently, as your ability is pressure, and so you can get to deal bunch of damage on switch ins.



Sableye
Bag_Sablenite_Sprite.png

Sableye @ Sablenite
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature
- Protect
- Recover
- Will-O-Wisp
- Knock Off

Mega-Sableye provides the control of hazard game, which enables Kyurem to have further longevity and at the same time prevents Kyurem from having its HP reduced due to its typing. It exerts pressure to physical hazard setters such as Garchomp, Landorus, Ferrothorn and Skarmory. Mega-Sableye also cripples Physical Offensive threats with will-o-wisp, and with the addition of Protect over Fake out it is now capable of scouting pokemons that run Choice items, most likely Tapu Lele, Tapu Bulu, Pheromosa,etc. Knock off over foul play, because it functions for wearing down pokemons with no recovery coverage with the likes of Tapu fini and Heatran leftovers.
EV/IV Spread - It is pretty suggested for Mega-Sableye to be fully invested in HP & DEF ever since most of hazard setters are physical, except for Heatran. It signifies that magic bounce will remain intact much longer, providing more longevity to Kyurem and the rest of the fat pokemons.


Chansey
Bag_Eviolite_Sprite.png

Chansey @ Eviolite
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpD
Impish Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Seismic Toss
- Soft-Boiled
- Toxic
- Stealth Rock


Chansey is noticeable to have a good performance by running Nature Cure ability, because it absorbs status, heal bell PPs are not forced to be reduced and Kyurem dictates the pace with more ease. Toxic Spaming one can get convenient results on offensive threats, disrupting their longevity. Chansey functions as the Hazard setter of this stall team. Set up hazard as soon as possible. It is not convinient to let Chansey loose its Eviolite Item, only when trying to PP stall another Stall team or getting to protect from Tornadus-T. Chansey and Toxapex are the only check against Charizard Y when it's sunny, so not allowing Tyranitar to cripple you with the pursuit game is going to be appreciated. This Chansey is excellent against Dugtrio Trapper, as you get to break through focus sash with toxic and using seismic toss in a manner that dugtrio doesn't reversal in a hard-hitting way.

EV/IV Spread - This Chansey can be found with ease on Smogon Strategy PokeDex.


Skarmory
Bag_Rocky_Helmet_Sprite.png

Skarmory (F) @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Impish Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Whirlwind
- Roost
- Defog
- Spikes

Skarm is meant to occupy the defogger slot in the team, it is consider, in deed, the best defogger for stall purposes, at least for this team, it is pretty valuable. When Sableye is unable to bounce hazard due to low HP or an inconvenient situation then it is when Skarmory comes down to action. Skarmory functions as a counter for Tornadus-T, Mega-Scizor and Mega-Pinsir. It also excels at crippling Boosted pokemons such as Mega-Gyarados and Garchomp by using whirlwind. Spikes serves to wear stall teams on a late game and for disrupting Offensive and balance team to unleash their full potential. Defog Spam is gonna be needed against Hazard setters such as Garchomp and Lando that don't run boosting moves. Take care of the flying type loose by roosting, good plays are suggested.

EV/IV Spread - This set can be found with ease in the Smogon Strategy PokeDex. Full physical defense plus rocky helmet cripples common megas such as Mega-metagross and Mega-Gyarados.


Toxapex
Bag_Black_Sludge_Sprite.png

Toxapex (F) @ Black Sludge
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 232 Def / 24 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Recover
- Toxic Spikes
- Haze

Toxapex serves as a back up for chansey when it comes to hard-hitting Sp. Atk pokemons, such as Charizard Y, Pheromosa, Greninja, etc. It is very useful against both pokemons that are on verge to boost and pokemons that are already boosted by using haze. Toxic Spikes forces switch ins and can help to wear down teams without the prescense of healing moves. Scald Spam is suggested against physical offensive threats and to slowly wear down pokemons without recovery coverage at its disposal. Recover can be used on PP stalling situation or for wanting to add even more longevity than regenerator provides.

EV/IV Spread - This set can be found with ease in the Smogon Strategy PokeDex.


Clefable
Bag_Leftovers_Sprite.png

Clefable (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Moonblast
- Wish
- Protect
- Heal Bell

Clefable is the Heal Bell user of the team. If by any chance one of the pokemons was affected by status, then heal is suggested to be used as soon as possible. Wish serves as a recovery back up for those who weren't capable of recovering and that in a switch in resist the damage dealt. Not to mention it's ability, Unaware, which gives it the capacity of ignoring boost combined with its typing fairy type, gaining more resistances than most of the others types. Proctect serves for giving clefable more longevity and scout on status and trick users.

EV/IV Spread - This set can be found with ease in the Smogon Strategy PokeDex.

••••••••••••
Threats
•••••••••••
Tapu Lele taunt/psychium z: IN THIS SCENARIO IT IS RECOMMENDED TO CRIPPLE TAPU LELE AS MUCH AS YOU CAN, SETTING UP HAZARDS, OVERPREDICTING, SCOUT BY USUBG PROTECT SO THAT THE WEIRD ENVIROMENT ENDS UP FASTER. Kyurem lives 1 Moonblast so if it is needed try to lower its HP. Clefable and Chansey covers it pretty well when the enviroment is not weird.


Marowak: IN THIS CASE, GET TO SEND KYUREM WHEN YOU KNOW THE OPPONENT IS GONNA USE EITHER SHADOW BONE OR BOOMERANG. TRY TO LOWER ITS HP AT LEAST DEAL DAMAGE UNTIL 60% BY SETTING ROCKS OR DEALING DAMAGE WITH TOXAPEX SCALD. THE REST KYUREM IS WILLING TO HELP BY USING EARTH POWER.

Charizard X: IN THIS SCENARIO, PLAY WELL THE GAMBLE OF HAZE. GET TO CONFUSE OPPONENT AND SEND CLEFABLE SO THAT YOU GET TO UNAWARE AND WISH/PROCTECT ALL THE WAY. IF IT DOESN'T WORK, TRY TO BAIT WITH CHANSEY SO THAT IT Flare blitz deals even more recoil than usual.

Replays

Shedinja Stall scenario:
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-543817983

Charizard Y +Tapu Lele+ Banded Zygarde:
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-543800731

Tapu Bulu + Celesteela + Zygarde:
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-542907165

HO Team:
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-542902488

Tapu Fini+Greninja+Gengar:
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-542056573

Scolipede+Tail Glow Manaphy+Tail Glow Xurketree
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-541330564

How to handle stall:
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-548356649

Kyurem is clutch!:
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7oususpecttest-554052353

Same Team Encounter:
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-551727061

Importable
Skarmory (F) @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Whirlwind
- Roost
- Defog
- Spikes

Toxapex (F) @ Black Sludge
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 194 Def / 62 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Recover
- Toxic Spikes
- Haze

Clefable (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Moonblast
- Wish
- Protect
- Heal Bell

Sableye (M) @ Sablenite
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature
- Protect
- Recover
- Will-O-Wisp
- Knock Off

Chansey @ Eviolite
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpD
Impish Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Seismic Toss
- Soft-Boiled
- Toxic
- Stealth Rock

Kyurem @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 124 Def / 132 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Ice Beam
- Roost
- Substitute
- Earth Power



(Peaked #1) [1932]
upload_2017-3-7_17-26-28.png


(Highest score) [1955]
 
Last edited:
Hey man, I love your team. I didn't expect Kyurem to be such a big pain in the ass when I first played against you. I realized that you were pressure stalling me half way through the match and I knew that if I took out Kyurem then I would win. Hence, I tried to get Kyurem to under 70% health in order to trap it with Dugtrio and eliminate it. I'm really glad that it worked:

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-545032851

Anyway, this shows that Dugtrio/Shedinja stall is still better than Kyurem stall when used correctly. Shedinja in particular completely walls Kyurem and anybody with half a brain would know to switch into Shedinja when you switch into Kyurem. I have no idea why this guy didn't switch into Shedinja when you switched into Kyurem:

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-543817983

Hence, using this battle as an example to prove that Kyurem stall is better than Dugtrio/Shedinja stall is unfair.

Looking back on our battle I realized a crucial mistake I made which would otherwise have ended the battle very early on. On turn 4, had I used Stone Edge instead of Stealth Rock I would have been able to eliminate Kyurem on turn 5. In retrospect, using Stealth Rock was perhaps the worst possible move in that situation. Won't happen again.

I also realize that the reason why I was able to beat Kyurem was because I was able to safely bring in Dugtrio against it. In my humble opinion, every team which has Dugtrio should also have a Volt Switch or U-turn user to safely bring it in. Had you not been so predictable and switched in Kyurem against Rotom-Wash then perhaps you would have won. Perhaps.

On Pressure Stalling

I never considered Pressure stalling to be a viable strategy because it takes way to long to deplete the PP of even a single pokémon. However, Pressure can be a viable tactic. For example, in ORAS OU I would use Zapdos to Pressure stall Mega Venusaur with the objective of depleting its PP for Sludge Bomb. It wasn't easy but if I managed to pull it off then my Breloom would completely wall Mega Venusaur. Hence, Breloom would be able to destroy Heatran/Mega Venusaur cores afterward.

Pressure stalling as a tactic in a specific situation can be very helpful but I'm not so sure about Pressure stalling as the main strategy to win matches. I understand that your main strategy is not Pressure stalling itself but forcing switches, whittling down checks and counters via entry hazards and eliminating key targets like Heatran and Toxapex using Earth Power. My question to you is, how often has Pressure itself been beneficial to you? It seems to me that you'd be better off using Black Kyurem instead. Teravolt is a much better ability than Pressure.

On PP Stalling

When it comes to PP stalling, Dugtrio/Shedinja can outstall anything that can't touch Shedinja and is faster than it. Baton Pass has 64 PP. That in conjunction with Arena Trap effectively doubles the PP of Baton Pass. Hence, if you ever find yourself in an unfavorable match up (e.g. against Zygarde without Toxic) then you can simply outstall it until the opponent decides to switch in which case you can Baton Pass to whatever you like instead.

This actually gives me an idea. Currently, I'm running 156 Spe EVs on Shedinja. However, this hasn't been very beneficial for me. Instead, if I run 0 Spe EVs with a Brave nature then I'd be able to outslow Toxapex. This means that I'll be able to completely wall Toxic Spikes Toxapex with Shedinja. If Toxapex uses Toxic Spikes then I can simply Baton Pass to Tentacruel or Alolan Muk and then switch back to Shedinja. Since I'd be slower Toxapex would use Toxic Spikes before I use Baton Pass.

Why didn't I think about this before?
 
Thank you! I appreciate it!
I didn't expect Kyurem to be such a big pain in the ass when I first played against you
Well It is! Specially when I get to be subbed, preventing pokemons from dealing damage and affecting me with status.
I tried to get Kyurem to under 70% health in order to trap it with Dugtrio and eliminate it. I'm really glad that it worked
It worked because if you watch closely, I critted you with earth power, so that itslef put you in position to reversal spam on me.
using this battle as an example to prove that Kyurem stall is better than Dugtrio/Shedinja stall is unfair.
I never said it was actually better than Shedinja Stall, I offered scenarios that provided the information needed in order for players to be aware of how to handle certain situations, and btw, this team does pretty good against shedinja stall if well played.
In my humble opinion, every team which has Dugtrio should also have a Volt Switch
Zapdos is by far a much better volt switcher than Rotom-W is, Zapdos belongs to the 100 Stat group with 600 BST, on the real offers recovery coverage, Rotom does too, but in a much more limited way.
I never considered Pressure stalling to be a viable strategy because it takes way to long to deplete the PP of even a single pokémon. However, Pressure can be a viable tactic.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-544819189
This actually gives me an idea. Currently, I'm running 156 Spe EVs on Shedinja. However, this hasn't been very beneficial for me. Instead, if I run 0 Spe EVs with a Brave nature then I'd be able to outslow Toxapex. This means that I'll be able to completely wall Toxic Spikes Toxapex with Shedinja. If Toxapex uses Toxic Spikes then I can simply Baton Pass to Tentacruel or Alolan Muk and then switch back to Shedinja. Since I'd be slower Toxapex would use Toxic Spikes before I use Baton Pass.
I am with you here, ppl should come to a realization and say: Hey, Shedinjas got to be invested brave 0 spe, at least that my personal standpoint, and what brainflakes(creator of gen 6 shedinja team) told me.
 
We don't see Kyurem stall very often, but I really like your team. I have a couple of suggestions to do:

- give Shed Shell to Skarmory so Magnezone + Mega Pinsir or Mega Metagross becomes less of a problem.
- many offensive teams have Greninja with Spikes, thus I suggest to make Sableye more specially defensive so you can take any hit from Greninja and enable Spikes.
 
We don't see Kyurem stall very often, but I really like your team. I have a couple of suggestions to do:

- give Shed Shell to Skarmory so Magnezone + Mega Pinsir or Mega Metagross becomes less of a problem.
- many offensive teams have Greninja with Spikes, thus I suggest to make Sableye more specially defensive so you can take any hit from Greninja and enable Spikes.
I can't afford to run Shed shell on Skarmory because of 4 things:
-I am not running Dugtrio (a pokemon that has shown to revenge kill on Metagross-mega and Mawile-mega)
-My team appreciate recoil damage produced by Rocky helmet, but more specifically for Mega-Metagross and Mega-Mawile, so that I get to effectuate an Earth Power onto them and finally have them killed.
-Other recoil damages that are also essential for my team are: On Landorus-T(2 scalds from toxapex + Recoil), On Chansey(Whirlwind/Spike from Skarmory+Recoil), On scizor( Stealth rock+Recoil+Earth Power Sp.Def drop).
 
Hey man, definelty a interesting team that u got here, PP stalling has always been a underated thing in my opinion, sub Kyurem is a very funny mon to use due to it's bulk that helps it to take on many attackers that doesn't hit it super effectively and it's ability to 1v1 things such as ferrothorn or even scarf landorus-T without losing one hp due to pressure. If I had to make some changes, I would surely consider Brave Bird>Spikes on Skarmory, it's helping againt offensive rock-setter Landorus-T and give you a real answer to taunt Mega Gyarados that kinda ruin your team. It also helps against non-lock tapu lele, that seams to 6-0's you on the papper oo. I would also change the Mega-Sableye spread to 248Hp/160Def/100SpD Bold Nature, that allows you to take a Moonblast from non-specs lele while still living a +2 EQ from Adamant Landorus-T and burning him. Gl with your team and thanks for not chosing the safe and gay way of playing duggie-stall :$
 
Hey man, definelty a interesting team that u got here, PP stalling has always been a underated thing in my opinion, sub Kyurem is a very funny mon to use due to it's bulk that helps it to take on many attackers that doesn't hit it super effectively and it's ability to 1v1 things such as ferrothorn or even scarf landorus-T without losing one hp due to pressure. If I had to make some changes, I would surely consider Brave Bird>Spikes on Skarmory, it's helping againt offensive rock-setter Landorus-T and give you a real answer to taunt Mega Gyarados that kinda ruin your team. It also helps against non-lock tapu lele, that seams to 6-0's you on the papper oo. I would also change the Mega-Sableye spread to 248Hp/160Def/100SpD Bold Nature, that allows you to take a Moonblast from non-specs lele while still living a +2 EQ from Adamant Landorus-T and burning him. Gl with your team and thanks for not chosing the safe and gay way of playing duggie-stall :$
Kickasser, you're welcome! xd look... PP stalling is nowadays overly underestimated, because of the new meta full of tapu taunters and z-moves and quick pace pokemons. However pressure stalling is in fact pretty beneficial: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-548356649 In this battle, I managed to use Kyurem in a way that whenever the deffoger pokemon was gonna remove hazard, I switched into pressure kyurem so that defog runs out of PP. I would love to take brave bird in consideration, but I really need to prevent boosting from harming my team, and plus in low pace battles (against stall) whirlwind can be crucial if the field is full of hazard, that would help me to eliminate fat pokemons much easier since my team appreciates offense. Gyarados taunt can be handled! >>>http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-545177848 In lele scenario it is recommended to gamble well and know how to make good predictions and switch ins: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-543800731 About the Mega-Sableye spread to 248Hp/160Def/100SpD Bold Nature, I appreciate a physically Defensive so that I can take on bisharp +2, Landorus +2, garchomp +2 and metagross and get to burn them preventing them from hurting my team if clefable has already been killed. About the last part, yeah I decided to opt to Kyurem as opposed to Dugtrio because not only is it unique, but also I can add even more bulk, decent offense as Ice beam takes on common ground/flying pokemons and even get to pressure stall in low pace battles. Thank you for your time.
 
Kickasser, you're welcome! xd look... PP stalling is nowadays overly underestimated, because of the new meta full of tapu taunters and z-moves and quick pace pokemons. However pressure stalling is in fact pretty beneficial: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-548356649 In this battle, I managed to use Kyurem in a way that whenever the deffoger pokemon was gonna remove hazard, I switched into pressure kyurem so that defog runs out of PP. I would love to take brave bird in consideration, but I really need to prevent boosting from harming my team, and plus in low pace battles (against stall) whirlwind can be crucial if the field is full of hazard, that would help me to eliminate fat pokemons much easier since my team appreciates offense. Gyarados taunt can be handled! >>>http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-545177848 In lele scenario it is recommended to gamble well and know how to make good predictions and switch ins: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-543800731 About the Mega-Sableye spread to 248Hp/160Def/100SpD Bold Nature, I appreciate a physically Defensive so that I can take on bisharp +2, Landorus +2, garchomp +2 and metagross and get to burn them preventing them from hurting my team if clefable has already been killed. About the last part, yeah I decided to opt to Kyurem as opposed to Dugtrio because not only is it unique, but also I can add even more bulk, decent offense as Ice beam takes on common ground/flying pokemons and even get to pressure stall in low pace battles. Thank you for your time.
I mean me (the mega gyarados user) and the tapu lele user both made the terrible mistakes of actively switching in our stall breakers in on a turn, allowing you to cripple /sufficiently weaken them to the point of them being able to fulfill their roles.

mega gyarados is less of a threat to the team due to the ability to threaten it hard with scald burns and moonblasts, but lele seems to be a potentially insurmountable threat. actually, how would this team beat many of the popular breakers like Hoopa U, SD lando t, SD z-move bulu, lele, etc?

And perhaps you can replace rocky helmet for shed shell on skarmory, so that other types of breakers like pinsir wont be able to run through your team?
 
I mean me (the mega gyarados user) and the tapu lele user both made the terrible mistakes of actively switching in our stall breakers in on a turn, allowing you to cripple /sufficiently weaken them to the point of them being able to fulfill their roles.

mega gyarados is less of a threat to the team due to the ability to threaten it hard with scald burns and moonblasts, but lele seems to be a potentially insurmountable threat. actually, how would this team beat many of the popular breakers like Hoopa U, SD lando t, SD z-move bulu, lele, etc?

And perhaps you can replace rocky helmet for shed shell on skarmory, so that other types of breakers like pinsir wont be able to run through your team?
Hoopa-U Choice specs + trick:
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-544866140
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-544876099
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-545915649
SD Lando T:
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-544845701
Lele Choice specs: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-541835647
Lele Choice scarf: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-552187517 / http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-552179697
Lele twisted spoon: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-543800731
And perhaps you can replace rocky helmet for shed shell on skarmory, so that other types of breakers like pinsir wont be able to run through your team?
My team appreciates recoil damage from rocky helmet due to:
  • Put Mega-Mawile, Mega-Metagross, Alolan-Marowak in position to be killed by Earth Power Kyurem.
  • Harm U-turn users such as Mega scizor, Landorus-T and Mega-Beedril.
  • Rocky Helmet +Whirlwind+Spikes cripples seismic toss Chansey.
 

Leo

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Hoopa-U Choice specs + trick:
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-544866140
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-544876099
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-545915649
SD Lando T:
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-544845701
Lele Choice specs: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-541835647
Lele Choice scarf: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-552187517 / http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-552179697
Lele twisted spoon: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-543800731

My team appreciates recoil damage from rocky helmet due to:
  • Put Mega-Mawile, Mega-Metagross, Alolan-Marowak in position to be killed by Earth Power Kyurem.
  • Harm U-turn users such as Mega scizor, Landorus-T and Mega-Beedril.
  • Rocky Helmet +Whirlwind+Spikes cripples seismic toss Chansey.
I never got why some people refuse to use Shed Shell on Skarm on Stall. While the residual damage is very helpful (and annoying for your opp) it isn't necessary tonwin games. On the other side, using a Skarm without Shed Shell against a dude with band Bulu/SD Pinsir/breaker that hates Skarm can actually lose you games and even though 90% of your games won't be against Zone and that makes Shed very situational, you put yourself at a disadvantage from matchup the games where you face Zone. It's like running Twisted Spoon Lele instead of Shed Shell. The extra damage is always nice and gets some clean 2hkos but whenever you face stall you pretty much autolose. Of course it's up to you to run it or not but I'm of the opinion that any Stall team could be improved by using Shed Shell on Skarm instead of any other item. Sick team btw I like the concept, keep it up
 
I never got why some people refuse to use Shed Shell on Skarm on Stall. While the residual damage is very helpful (and annoying for your opp) it isn't necessary tonwin games. On the other side, using a Skarm without Shed Shell against a dude with band Bulu/SD Pinsir/breaker that hates Skarm can actually lose you games and even though 90% of your games won't be against Zone and that makes Shed very situational, you put yourself at a disadvantage from matchup the games where you face Zone. It's like running Twisted Spoon Lele instead of Shed Shell. The extra damage is always nice and gets some clean 2hkos but whenever you face stall you pretty much autolose. Of course it's up to you to run it or not but I'm of the opinion that any Stall team could be improved by using Shed Shell on Skarm instead of any other item. Sick team btw I like the concept, keep it up
Thanks a lot! I will! Leooo_33! Look, I am running Rocky Helmet primarily only for residual damage (as it was aforementioned by you up there) against Mega-Mawile and Mega-Metagross, because Earth Power Kyurem is fully invested to be a fat pokemon, leaving Earth Power to 2hko Mega-mawile and Mega-Metagross.
  • Earth Power (64.3 - 76.5%) [Mega-Mawile]
  • Earth Power (49.8 - 59.1%) [Mega-Metagross]
 

Leo

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Thanks a lot! I will! Leooo_33! Look, I am running Rocky Helmet primarily only for residual damage (as it was aforementioned by you up there) against Mega-Mawile and Mega-Metagross, because Earth Power Kyurem is fully invested to be a fat pokemon, leaving Earth Power to 2hko Mega-mawile and Mega-Metagross.
  • Earth Power (64.3 - 76.5%) [Mega-Mawile]
  • Earth Power (49.8 - 59.1%) [Mega-Metagross]
Yeah, I just feel like the residual damage only speeds up games but isn't necessarily key to beating these mons (unless you eventually get haxed) whereas Shed Shell is key on the matchups I mentioned. Still up to the player imo :)
 

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