RNGIsFatal
Banned deucer.
Accessibility to Fake Out and Feint will make Weavile a very dangerous revenge killer, and it is pmuch a check to every Ubers mon that is weak to Ice.
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M&M Mix and Mega
- Thread starter xavgb
- Start date
Zygarde-Complete @ Leftovers
Ability: Power Construct
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Thousand Arrows
- Coil
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
Despite losing its ability to hold a mega stone, Zygarde-Complete is still an incredibly badass and powerful pokemon, capable of breaking through many stall/semistall teams by clicking Thousand Arrows. Obviously with Weavile running rampant it might not seem as attractive, but Weavile can definitely be played around as it doesn't like switching into T-arrows at all. I've tried Rest + Dragon Tail over Sleep Talk, but I've found that wasting 2 turns is something you simply cannot afford in this beautiful meta.
RNGIsFatal
Banned deucer.
I think it's less about when it has Download boost and more about boosts in general, as it's damage isn't incredibly impressive without one. But yeah, I dropped Genesect for Weavile and I am never going back.
Laxpras
One small yeet for man, one giant yeet for mankind
Hey guys, I've updated my Catalina Wine Mixer team to better handle the current meta without Dragonite and I peaked the ladder with it, you can find it, replays, and it's description here. Quantum Tesseract , do you want to add this as a second version sample team?
So this is a more useful post other than providing a team for you guys, I'd like to mention two things about Pheromosa.
1. Do you guys think this is broken? I certainly do. It's speed and power are second to none, and banning Dragonite left it with one less check. The only common reliable checks at this point are Ghostceus and Genesect, and the only switchins are really Fairyceus/Ghostceus.
2. Use Protect. Protect allows you to beat Weavile 1v1, I expanded on this in the team description (link above)
So this is a more useful post other than providing a team for you guys, I'd like to mention two things about Pheromosa.
1. Do you guys think this is broken? I certainly do. It's speed and power are second to none, and banning Dragonite left it with one less check. The only common reliable checks at this point are Ghostceus and Genesect, and the only switchins are really Fairyceus/Ghostceus.
2. Use Protect. Protect allows you to beat Weavile 1v1, I expanded on this in the team description (link above)
Funbot28
Banned deucer.
Yeh im down with suspecting Phero. It shares a lot of same qualities that makes it broken in SuMo OU currently actually. Although priority is more common in this meta, Pheromosa still does not have surefire switchins besides Venusaurite Zapdos, Arceus-Fairy, and Arceus-Ghost (but they all need to be at near full to really be consistent answers) not counting niche stuff like Red Orb Togekiss and Chandelure. Like post above stated, Pheromosa's mixed wallbreaking capabilities is second to none right now (yes even over Genesect) and it really just capitalizes on none-aggressive playing (which I really find annoying). Its also quite splashable as well, being on basically every good offensive team just due to how much potentency and "team support" it provides the user. Can only see the meta being healthier with it gone.
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Genesect's issue isn't just that it gets the Download Boost... but also the fact it gets -ate Techno Blast, which levels nearly every physical wall that doesn't resist (and flat out nukes everything with a Special Attack boost)... and can even take on weakened Zapdos with ease. (And to a lesser extent, surprise Fell Stingers) It basically allows Genesect to wallbreak and clean incredibly well.
It acts pretty similarly to Pheromosa in that it sits in the back unless it wants to be a pivot.... which no other -ate speeder can do. While it does lose the Download boost when it mega evolves, it is easy enough to utilize it in a way that puts the opponent at an incredible disadvantage or just wins.
It loses to other -ate speeders and Rockceus, and that's really the extent of Genesect's faults. It only has one real set, but it does that set incredibly well, and can carry coverage to mess up a potential counter. I think it should have been suspected along with Dragonite, but alas, we need our accurate progress.
And yes, Pheromosa is crazy too. High Jump Kick hits stupidly hard, and it's an incredible offensive pivot, too. We also have Giratina forms, Lunala, and Ho-oh as softer checks. There's also a few -ate Quick Attacks available, if you don't feel like using Genesect, Zygarde, Arcanine, or Entei. (expect those last two to shoot up in viability soon) But besides those.... (can we suspect both Genesect and Pheromosa?)
The thing with both of these mons is that even if you were to switch into one of your counters (Ho-oh or Giratina, there isn't much else really), both Genesect and Pheromosa can just U-turn out and grab momentum. This very same problem is showing in the OU tier right now, where Phero is getting a suspect because it's so difficult to catch. And that's not to mention the fact that Lucarionite Phero, probably its best mega stone, gives it even more speed and spammable STABs.
Its unpredictability also gets a boost since it can always choose a special set to circumvent other potential switch-ins. This also applies to Genesect, which is almost as powerful as Phero but even more unpredictable. As mentioned above it can nuke physical walls with its astounding coverage + potential download boost.
Fardin
Tournament Banned
Most stuff that switches into Genesect will usually always resist tecnho blast or have a great mixed def like blissey and arceus so idek why ur hyping up its wall breaking ability...it just does good vs offence, not bulkier teams.
Genesect needs the download boost to even have a chance to ohko stuff like goli with espeed or even barely 2koing most mons that are neutral to its attacks....it relies too much on download boost and the fact that it's usually a one time use doesn't help it much...after it loses the boost it's just really a mediocre ate user ss I mentioned in my first post about it
I don't even see genesect much these days and frankly, idek why that thing is S rank. It's a great poke overall but it shouldn't get a suspect Rn...phero is a much bigger problem
Genesect needs the download boost to even have a chance to ohko stuff like goli with espeed or even barely 2koing most mons that are neutral to its attacks....it relies too much on download boost and the fact that it's usually a one time use doesn't help it much...after it loses the boost it's just really a mediocre ate user ss I mentioned in my first post about it
I don't even see genesect much these days and frankly, idek why that thing is S rank. It's a great poke overall but it shouldn't get a suspect Rn...phero is a much bigger problem
Is there a discord for mix and mega? I know there's an other meta one, but it has two rooms (one of which nobody uses) and nothing for dedicated mix and mega. If not someone (I could if you wanted) should make one.
Anyway, Here's a set for Vaporeon using whirlpool
I prefer whirlpool over scald as its more reliable, despite it only being 85% accuracy. Vaporeon's sp.a is okay but I find it isn't enough to justify scald, especially when you're using sablenite on a stall set.
Anyway, Here's a set for Vaporeon using whirlpool
Vaporeon @ Sablenite
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Wish
- Protect
- Toxic
- Whirlpool
.
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Wish
- Protect
- Toxic
- Whirlpool
.
I prefer whirlpool over scald as its more reliable, despite it only being 85% accuracy. Vaporeon's sp.a is okay but I find it isn't enough to justify scald, especially when you're using sablenite on a stall set.
Grass users are also near non-existent (bulu I guess and he's physical) and the only common electric users are Raikou, Zapdos, and Koko which you can't trap regardless if they're carrying volt/turn which they should be. Tbh you would benefit more by having higher physical bulk so as to trap a wider range of mons and have a better match up against all the different ekillers running around the tier.
Edit: I cant think of much that has grass or electric coverage on its standard sets unless it's mag in which case it's volt switch which again poses the same issue
We will be obtaining Pidgeotite and Steelixite in a few hours / days.
The following month will give us Blazikenite and Sceptilite.
I'd like to continue discussion on what Pokémon should see removal when Pidgeotite is released. At the moment, Darkrai and Shaymin-Sky look to be the most broken abusers of No Guard; however, I can definitely see other potential broken users. Can we please wait until Pidgeotite and Steelixite are released before we discuss the possibility of a Pheromosa suspect? I don't believe that the implementation of these two stones will affect Pheromosa's viability in any way, but who knows yet. Pheromosa might see a buff with Pidgeotite due to its equally high Special Attack stat and access to stuff like Focus Blast.
Basically, just wondering. How do you think Pidgeotite will affect the meta?
The following month will give us Blazikenite and Sceptilite.
I'd like to continue discussion on what Pokémon should see removal when Pidgeotite is released. At the moment, Darkrai and Shaymin-Sky look to be the most broken abusers of No Guard; however, I can definitely see other potential broken users. Can we please wait until Pidgeotite and Steelixite are released before we discuss the possibility of a Pheromosa suspect? I don't believe that the implementation of these two stones will affect Pheromosa's viability in any way, but who knows yet. Pheromosa might see a buff with Pidgeotite due to its equally high Special Attack stat and access to stuff like Focus Blast.
Basically, just wondering. How do you think Pidgeotite will affect the meta?
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sin(pi)
lucky n bad
Mew @ Pidgeotite
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Hypnosis
- Zap Cannon
- Dynamic Punch / Roost
- Blizzard / Roost
This is a Fun Competitive Set™ which will be legal on Pidgeotite's release. Hax or your money back!
Gengar and Victini were strong threats last gen; the Burn nerf hurts 'tini but it's still good. The most obvious set this gen is Xurkitree, which reaches a ridiculous 238 base SpA and 103 base Spe leading to calcs like this:
+3 252 SpA Pidgeotite Xurkitree Zap Cannon vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Sablenite Blissey: 360-424 (50.4 - 59.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Hypnosis
- Zap Cannon
- Dynamic Punch / Roost
- Blizzard / Roost
This is a Fun Competitive Set™ which will be legal on Pidgeotite's release. Hax or your money back!
Gengar and Victini were strong threats last gen; the Burn nerf hurts 'tini but it's still good. The most obvious set this gen is Xurkitree, which reaches a ridiculous 238 base SpA and 103 base Spe leading to calcs like this:
+3 252 SpA Pidgeotite Xurkitree Zap Cannon vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Sablenite Blissey: 360-424 (50.4 - 59.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
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david0895
Mercy Main Btw
Basically now we have to think about Darkrai, Pheromosa and Gengar.
And probably I'm forgotting someone...
pidgeotite and steelixite are on showdown now
have fun with the very fair and balanced pidgeotite darkrai
have fun with the very fair and balanced pidgeotite darkrai
Funbot28
Banned deucer.
Rip Pidgeotite Dragonite...
After Darkrai and Skymin get banned, I can definitely see Gengar taking the place of the prime user of the stone again due to Hypnosis + Focus Blast wrecking walls. The mind games of whether or not it's standard Mega Gengar or if its it Pidgeotite form will definitely be (annoying) interesting once more.
Also welcome back ZapPunch, no one wanted you back.
After Darkrai and Skymin get banned, I can definitely see Gengar taking the place of the prime user of the stone again due to Hypnosis + Focus Blast wrecking walls. The mind games of whether or not it's standard Mega Gengar or if its it Pidgeotite form will definitely be (
Also welcome back ZapPunch, no one wanted you back.
honestly, gengar shouldnt be banned with pidgeotite, but shaymin, pher and drai are concerns imo. Gengar was a good offensive threat last gen with pidgeotite, but by no means banworthy, and its only worse this gen, especially as drai is just better in every way.
Now on to the actual things that need to be banned. Drai needs to go imo. I remember how much of a concern this was before the meta was released... it was causing a shitstorm back then cos GOS refused to quick ban it. Its versatile, speedy, and simply unbalanced. I dont think there is much I can say on the matter that everyone doesnt know already, but the good news is that ive heard its getting banned tomoz.
Shaymin-sky is pretty much the same as drai, just slightly faster, but not as versatile. Grasswhistle will still be annoying as hell to deal with, and seed flare is a cool niche ig, but other than that imo its not like quickban material. Now if there wasnt a sleep clause... ban immediately. that however is not an issue, thankfully, so to be quite honest I dont see the need for it to go. Weavile forces a swap every time, and aerilate spam is still a thing. The main thing is that shaymin cant boost its spa like drai can (with plot) making it far less versatile on a whole. The only thing about shaymin that makes it quite scary is the spd drops cos of seed flare, which means that it can brute force past some sablenite mons, which would otherwise wall it completely. My overall opinion: leave it for a week and see how the meta pans out. If its too unbalanced, then take necessary action.
Pher: (edited)
This is gonna be annoying to deal with. STAB 120bp move in focus blast, with 202 base SPA and 171 base speed is not balanced imo. The only reason why I do not think this should be banned as of yet is because aerilate spam seems to still be a thing, and things like luke and archeops beat pher with prio very easily. Also weavile with fake-out and feint beats it as well.
Edited- After a bit of experience, all these checks dont matter. Pher is literally another very viable stone for pher, and its literally impossible to prepare and predict for all of these viable sets, making pher way too scary. BAN imo
Now on to the actual things that need to be banned. Drai needs to go imo. I remember how much of a concern this was before the meta was released... it was causing a shitstorm back then cos GOS refused to quick ban it. Its versatile, speedy, and simply unbalanced. I dont think there is much I can say on the matter that everyone doesnt know already, but the good news is that ive heard its getting banned tomoz.
Shaymin-sky is pretty much the same as drai, just slightly faster, but not as versatile. Grasswhistle will still be annoying as hell to deal with, and seed flare is a cool niche ig, but other than that imo its not like quickban material. Now if there wasnt a sleep clause... ban immediately. that however is not an issue, thankfully, so to be quite honest I dont see the need for it to go. Weavile forces a swap every time, and aerilate spam is still a thing. The main thing is that shaymin cant boost its spa like drai can (with plot) making it far less versatile on a whole. The only thing about shaymin that makes it quite scary is the spd drops cos of seed flare, which means that it can brute force past some sablenite mons, which would otherwise wall it completely. My overall opinion: leave it for a week and see how the meta pans out. If its too unbalanced, then take necessary action.
Pher: (edited)
This is gonna be annoying to deal with. STAB 120bp move in focus blast, with 202 base SPA and 171 base speed is not balanced imo. The only reason why I do not think this should be banned as of yet is because aerilate spam seems to still be a thing, and things like luke and archeops beat pher with prio very easily. Also weavile with fake-out and feint beats it as well.
Edited- After a bit of experience, all these checks dont matter. Pher is literally another very viable stone for pher, and its literally impossible to prepare and predict for all of these viable sets, making pher way too scary. BAN imo
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pheramosa also gets blizzard. rip aerilate users
i meant aerilate users with prio- luke and entei with espeed, and archeops with quick attack
other aerilate users do shit all to pher as it gets ice beam and fblast.
yeah phero is the definition of borked