Battle Spot Greninja Preview [Singles]

[OVERVIEW]

What Greninja lacks in raw offensive stats it makes up for in an incredible movepool, an amazing ability in Protean, and an impressive Speed, making it an offensive threat in the current metagame. Greninja's versatility allows it to take on many different Pokemon, although it cannot take on every Pokemon at once and it is still outsped by Pheromosa and Tapu Koko, threatening to KO it through its rather lacking defenses.

Below are some sample sets. These sets are likely to be standard, but they will be expanded upon and updated as the metagame progresses.


[SET]
name: Sweeper
move 1: Ice Beam
move 2: Gunk Shot
move 3: Water Shuriken/Grass Knot/Hydro Pump
move 4: Dark Pulse/Hidden Power Fire/Low Kick
item: Life Orb/Focus Sash
ability: Naive
nature: Protean
evs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

* This set takes advantage of Greninja's expansive movepool in order to sweep through opposing teams.
* When backed by the STAB gained through Protean, Ice Beam and Gunk Shot are essential tools in Greninja's arsenal to take on Dragon-, Flying-, Ground-, Grass-, and Fairy-types.
* The last two moveslots are incredibly customizable, allowing Greninja to break through Pokemon that its teammates may struggle with.
* Water Shuriken Greninja to pick off weakened Pokemon, especially faster opponents such as Choice Scarf users, boosted Blaziken, and Pheromosa.
* Grass Knot deals extra damage against Water- and Ground-types.
* Hydro Pump is Greninja's strongest STAB move.
*Dark Pulse provides excellent neutral coverage and the ability to deal with Psychic- and Ghost-types.
* Hidden Power Fire covers Steel-types, most notably Ferrothorn and Mega Scizor.
* Low Kick deals heavy damage to Mega Kangaskhan and Tyranitar.
* U-turn not only allows Greninja to scout the opponent's moveset, it also breaks Mimikyu's Disguise, preventing it from setting up for free.
* Extrasensory can be used to hit Mega Venusaur and Buzzwole hard.
* Rock Tomb can be used with Focus Sash in order to reduce a faster threat's Speed, leaving the opponent open to possibly being revenge killed.
* Greninja is best kept off until late game, as it struggles to KO many walls. However, Greninja can be used early to mid game in order to weaken more offensive teams, especially if it carries U-turn.
* Wallbreakers are Greninja's best friends, as it simply does not have the offensive stats to deal significant damage to most walls. In turn, most wallbreakers appreciate Greninja's ability to take on faster, more offensive Pokemon.
* Life Orb patches up Greninja's offensive stats, allowing it to deal significantly more damage, while Focus Sash allows Greninja one shot at revenge killing sweepers such as Mega Salamence, given that Stealth Rock is not set up.

[SET]
name: Choice Scarf
move 1: Ice Beam
move 2: Gunk Shot
move 3: Rock Slide/Grass Knot/Hydro Pump
move 4: Dark Pulse/U-turn/Hidden Power Fire
item: Choice Scarf
ability: Naive
nature: Protean
evs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

* Even with its high Speed, Greninja misses out on outspeeding threats such as Tapu Koko, Choice Scarf users, and setup sweepers. Having a Choice Scarf of its own alleviates Greninja's weaknesses to these Pokemon.
* Ice Beam allows Greninja to revenge kill +1 Mega Salamence and Choice Scarf Landorus-T, while Gunk Shot allows it to KO Fairy-types such as Tapu Koko and Tapu Lele.
* Rock Slide allows Greninja to revenge kill threatening Fire-types such as Mega Charizard Y and +1 Volcarona, Grass Knot deals with opposing Water-types, and Hydro Pump provides the power that this set lacks compared to other non-Choice Scarf sets.
* In the last moveslot, Dark Pulse provides great neutral coverage overall, notably hitting Psychic- and Ghost-types for super effective damage and picking off weakened Gengar more easily, U-turn allows Greninja to not only scout out the opponent's moves, it can also break through Focus Sashes of common users, most notably Pheromosa, and Hidden Power Fire makes it so Greninja is not walled by Steel-types.
* In combination with a Naughty nature, Waterfall allows Greninja to OHKO Blaziken and 2HKO Tapu Lele while only taking up one moveslot. However, this leaves Greninja outsped by Jolly Mega Salamence after a Dragon Dance.
* As with all Greninja sets, the last moveslot generally depends on what its teammates need to be dealt with, so some moves may work better over others.
* Choice Scarf Greninja works best early game, providing opportunities to scout opposing Pokemon as well as being an excellent revenge killer.
* Pokemon who struggle to deal with offensive threats such as Mega Salamence, Pheromosa, Tapu Koko, and Choice Scarf Landorus-T will appreciate Choice Scarf Greninja as a partner.

[SET]
name: Z-Happy Hour
move 1: Happy Hour
move 2: Ice Beam
move 3: Gunk Shot
move 4: Dark Pulse/Hydro Pump/Low Kick
item: Normalium Z
ability: Naive
nature: Protean
evs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

* When used with Normalium Z, Z-Happy Hour gives Greninja +1 boosts in all stats, turning it into a powerful offensive threat. Although, this can only be used once and leaves Greninja vulnerable to Haze and being phazed.
* Ice Beam hits Dragon-, Flying-, and Ground-types for super effective damage, while Gunk Shot allows Greninja to deal with the plethora of Fairy-types present in Battle Spot Singles.
* The last moveslot provides coverage for what Ice Beam and Gunk Shot may struggle with. Dark Pulse provides excellent neutral coverage, with an added chance to flinch. Hydro Pump leaves Greninja less effective against Water-types, but it is Greninja's most powerful special coverage option. Low Kick can deal more damage against Normal-, Dark-, and Steel-types, but it leaves it more vulnerable to Ghost-types. Surf can also be used due to it's perfect accuracy, although it is weaker than Hydro Pump and may not achieve KOs that the latter can.
* Greninja is most effective late game, once all its checks are removed, giving it a chance to set up with Z-Happy Hour.
* Refrain from setting up if the opponent can phaze Greninja out or use Haze on it, as Greninja has only one opportunity to set up.
* Grass- and Electric-type teammates help deal with Water-types for Greninja, while Fire-, Ground-, and Fighting-types can take on Steel-types.
* Stealth Rock support can help weaken opposing teams and break Focus Sashes, granting Greninja an easier time sweeping.
 
Last edited:
Awaiting response to weather or not I should add a Spikes set, until then, I will keep this in WIP.

Edit: OK, this is ready for QC!
 
Last edited:

Theorymon

Long Live Super Mario Maker! 2015-2024
is a Site Content Manageris a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Smogon Discord Contributoris a Pokemon Researcheris a Top Contributoris a Top Smogon Media Contributoris a Social Media Contributor Alumnusis a Community Leader Alumnusis a CAP Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
Moderator
Time to check this!

[OVERVIEW]

What Greninja lacks in raw offensive stats it makes up for in an incredible movepool, an amazing ability in Protean, and an impressive Speed, making it an offensive threat in the current metagame. Greninja's versatility allows it to take on many different Pokemon, although it cannot take on every Pokemon at once and it is still outsped by Pheromosa and Tapu Koko, threatening to KO it through its rather lacking defenses.

Below are some sample sets. These sets are likely to be standard, but they will be expanded upon and updated as the metagame progresses.


[SET]
name: Sweeper
move 1: Ice Beam
move 2: Gunk Shot
move 3: Extrasensory/Grass Knot/Hydro Pump
move 4: Hidden Power Fire/Low Kick
item: Life Orb
ability: Naive
nature: Protean
evs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

Focus Sash should be slashed after Life Orb since it's almost as common.

I'd also slash in Water Shuriken somewhere, probably before Extrasensory. U-turn is worth a slash in the last slot as well.


[SET COMMENTS]

* This set takes advantage of Greninja's expansive movepool in order to sweep through opposing teams.
* When backed by the STAB gained through Protean, Ice Beam and Gunk Shot are essential tools in Greninja's arsenal to take on Dragon-, Flying-, Ground-, Grass-, and Fairy-types.
* The last two moveslots are incredibly customizable, allowing Greninja to break through Pokemon that its teammates may struggle with.
I think you need to go into some detail about what the other moves do. Basically, Water Shuriken allows Greninja to pick off weakened Pokemon (especially useful against Choice Scarf Pokemon, and weakened Blaziken / Pheromosa). Extrasensory hits Mega Venusaurand Buzzwole hard, Grass Knot does good against Water and Ground-types, Hydro Pump is the strongest STAB, Hidden Power Fire hits Steel-types (most notably Ferrothorn), and Low Kick hits Mega Kangaskhan and Tyranitar hard. U-turn is not only good for scouting, but it breaks Mimikyu's disguise, meaning it can't just Swords Dance for free.
* Greninja is best kept off until late game, as it struggles to KO many walls. However, Greninja can be used early to mid game in order to weaken more offensive teams. I'd mention that U-turn makes Greninja a lot easier to use early game.
* Wallbreakers are Greninja's best friends, as it simply does not have the offensive stats to deal significant damage to most walls. In turn, most wallbreakers appreciate Greninja's ability to take on faster, more offensive Pokemon.
Should talk about the item a bit. Life Orb makes up for Greninja's average SpA, while Focus Sash gives Greninja one shot at revenge killing certain sweepers such as Mega Salamence when Stealth Rock isn't set up.

[SET]
name: Z-Happy Hour
move 1: Happy Hour
move 2: Ice Beam
move 3: Gunk Shot
move 4: Dark Pulse/Hydro Pump/Low Kick
item: Normalium Z
ability: Naive
nature: Protean
evs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

* When used with Normalium Z, Z-Happy Hour gives Greninja +1 boosts in all stats, turning it into a powerful offensive threat. Although, this can only be used once and leaves Greninja vulnerable to Haze and being phazed.
* Ice Beam hits Dragon-, Flying-, and Ground-types for super effective damage, while Gunk Shot allows Greninja to deal with the plethora of Fairy-types present in Battle Spot Singles.
* The last moveslot provides coverage for what Ice Beam and Gunk Shot may struggle with. Dark Pulse provides excellent neutral coverage, with an added chance to flinch. Hydro Pump leaves Greninja less effective against Water-types, but it is Greninja's most powerful special coverage option. Low Kick can deal more damage against Normal-, Dark-, and Steel-types, but it leaves it more vulnerable to Ghost-types. I'd mention Surf since its reliability can come in handy when sweeping teams late game.
* Greninja is most effective late game, once all its checks are removed, giving it a chance to set up with Z-Happy Hour.
* Refrain from setting up if the opponent can phaze Greninja out or use Haze on it, as Greninja has only one opportunity to set up.
* Grass- and Electric-type teammates help deal with Water-types for Greninja, while Fire-, Ground-, and Fighting-types can take on Steel-types.
* Stealth Rock support can help weaken opposing teams and break Focus Sashes, granting Greninja an easier time sweeping.
One final thing: as weird as this sounds, I think there needs to be one extra set above Z-Happy Hour: Choice Scarf. Yes, I know Choice Scarf sounds absurd on such a fast Pokemon, but there's been a serious speed creep in this metagame, to the point where Choice Scarf is probably the 2nd most common Greninja set now lol.

Here's the set I'd put in: its a specially based one. I know the team tied for 2nd place in battle spot used a physically based one, but I think that's too obscure to talk about just yet!

[SET]
name: Choice Scarf
move 1: Ice Beam
move 2: Gunk Shot
move 3: Hydro Pump / Grass Knot / Rock Slide
move 4: U-turn / Hidden Power Fire / Dark Pulse
item: Choice Scarf
ability: Naive
nature: Protean
evs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

TBH I'm not 100% sure about how the final two slots should be slashed (besides some sort of rock move being there since its really helpful for revenge killing +1 Volcarona and Mega Charizard Y), so I'd like for other QC members to comment!
 
Time to check this!



One final thing: as weird as this sounds, I think there needs to be one extra set above Z-Happy Hour: Choice Scarf. Yes, I know Choice Scarf sounds absurd on such a fast Pokemon, but there's been a serious speed creep in this metagame, to the point where Choice Scarf is probably the 2nd most common Greninja set now lol.

Here's the set I'd put in: its a specially based one. I know the team tied for 2nd place in battle spot used a physically based one, but I think that's too obscure to talk about just yet!

[SET]
name: Choice Scarf
move 1: Ice Beam
move 2: Gunk Shot
move 3: Hydro Pump / Grass Knot / Rock Slide
move 4: U-turn / Hidden Power Fire / Dark Pulse
item: Choice Scarf
ability: Naive
nature: Protean
evs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

TBH I'm not 100% sure about how the final two slots should be slashed (besides some sort of rock move being there since its really helpful for revenge killing +1 Volcarona and Mega Charizard Y), so I'd like for other QC members to comment!
Changes made and Choice Scarf added as a set. I'm not sure either the order of slashed moves for Scarf either, especially because Greninja now lacks the ability to switch between moves, leaving it vulnerable to different Pokemon depending on what it locks itself into (except U-turn).
 

Theorymon

Long Live Super Mario Maker! 2015-2024
is a Site Content Manageris a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Smogon Discord Contributoris a Pokemon Researcheris a Top Contributoris a Top Smogon Media Contributoris a Social Media Contributor Alumnusis a Community Leader Alumnusis a CAP Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
Moderator
So from talking on Discord, I guess physically based Scarf Greninja is better than other options after all. However, it'd make the Scarf moveset a total mess to slash in.

So what I'd do is: I'd add a bullet point that mentions that physically based Scarf Greninja is reasonable if you want much more power with Gunk Shot and Rock Slide. Here, you can consider a Naughty Nature with Waterfall to OHKO Blaziken and 2HKO Tapu Lele with one move, which is useful since that is a dangerous core. Of course, Naughty does mean that Jolly Mega Salamence outspeeds you after a Dragon Dance.

Only other thing I'd mention for Scarf is that Dark Pulse lets you pick off weakened Gengar more easily, which is really nice.

Otherwise, if no other QC member objects, I'll upload this a day after you implement these last checks!
 
So from talking on Discord, I guess physically based Scarf Greninja is better than other options after all. However, it'd make the Scarf moveset a total mess to slash in.

So what I'd do is: I'd add a bullet point that mentions that physically based Scarf Greninja is reasonable if you want much more power with Gunk Shot and Rock Slide. Here, you can consider a Naughty Nature with Waterfall to OHKO Blaziken and 2HKO Tapu Lele with one move, which is useful since that is a dangerous core. Of course, Naughty does mean that Jolly Mega Salamence outspeeds you after a Dragon Dance.

Only other thing I'd mention for Scarf is that Dark Pulse lets you pick off weakened Gengar more easily, which is really nice.

Otherwise, if no other QC member objects, I'll upload this a day after you implement these last checks!
Implemented
 
I think the scarf set should be physically invested instead of special. The way i see the scarf set is like a tool to take out very specific pokemon. Scarf Lele, Tapu Koko, +1 Volc, +1 Mence, among some other things. Gunk shot is gonna be your main move a lot of the time i think, and you generally ice beam on things that are 4x weak and will die even with only 4 evs invested. Rock Slide should be first in the slash list, hydro probs last. I'd put dpulse higher in the last slash list too, probably before u-turn.

Also on the first set, i think dark pulse should be included in the set, probably before hp fire. I think rock tomb should be somewhere in there as well, and mention it specifically with sash. extrasensory should be lower in the slash list imo.
 
I think the scarf set should be physically invested instead of special. The way i see the scarf set is like a tool to take out very specific pokemon. Scarf Lele, Tapu Koko, +1 Volc, +1 Mence, among some other things. Gunk shot is gonna be your main move a lot of the time i think, and you generally ice beam on things that are 4x weak and will die even with only 4 evs invested. Rock Slide should be first in the slash list, hydro probs last. I'd put dpulse higher in the last slash list too, probably before u-turn.

Also on the first set, i think dark pulse should be included in the set, probably before hp fire. I think rock tomb should be somewhere in there as well, and mention it specifically with sash. extrasensory should be lower in the slash list imo.
Implemented. Looking at this preview, I need some assistance deciding what should and should not be slashed for the sweeper set, because it's looking pretty crowded right now.
 
Honestly it might be unavoidable to have a crowded set cause greninja is just actually that flexible. The crowdedness is very reflective of how versatile greninja can be. If you wanna clean it up a bit you could maybe cut down the fourth options on the last two slots so there's only 3 on each one rather than 4. And just mention those moves in set comments instead.
 
Honestly it might be unavoidable to have a crowded set cause greninja is just actually that flexible. The crowdedness is very reflective of how versatile greninja can be. If you wanna clean it up a bit you could maybe cut down the fourth options on the last two slots so there's only 3 on each one rather than 4. And just mention those moves in set comments instead.
Sounds reasonable
Edit: I just went ahead and removed U-turn and Extrasensory from slashes and left them as mentions. Just to clear things up a bit.
 
Last edited:

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 1, Guests: 0)

Top