Metagame Workshop

[Zephyr Dragon Lord]

Imo it's a nice idea and all but if all teams have Weather Setters, it'll be a mess. Tho Cloud Nine seems like a much better option now.
Questions:
- Also, does a Shiny Pelipper make a Flying "Weather"? Smae for other weather setters with abilities
- If "Rain" is set up but used by a Poion-Type mon, will Swift Swim still work?


WWII sounds good tbh. As for hail, give them 1.5X boost in defense as a counterpart to hail?

- Yeah, Shiny Pelipper summons Flying-type Rain. Also is the same for the other weather setters.
- Yes, it will. Those abilities are made for a reason, and I don't intend those to go to waste.

I'll wait for more opinions until I implement the Hail buff, but I do like the idea...

 

[Speny]

Ok so, before finally officially submitting this, are there any other suggestions for the type chart changes? (Rock will become Attack and Ground Defense)
Or any name suggestions if possible too?

Rock threats: Aerodactyl-Mega +20Atk+20Spe
Terrakion +40Atk
Tyranitar +20Atk+20Spd
Tyrantrum +40Atk

 

[AquaticPanic]

Rock threats: Aerodactyl-Mega +20Atk+20Spe
Terrakion +40Atk
Tyranitar +20Atk+20Spe
Tyrantrum +40Atk

Actually, TTar gets +20 Sp. Def, not speed...

...which is really scarry under Sandstorm

 

[Speny]

I just want to want to make a meta were Farcetch'd counters Areceus.

 

[Ludicrousity]

I just want to want to make a meta were Farcetch'd counters Areceus.

Make one where all pokemon specific items are added together. That way, a Farfetch'd holding a stick will get *2 Atk & SpA from Light Ball, 2* Attack from thick club, +1 crit ratio from both Lucky Punch & Stick, *2 defence from Metal Powder, *2 speed from Quick Powder and 1.2* SpA and SpD from Soul Dew. lol

 

[AquaticPanic]

I just want to want to make a meta were Farcetch'd counters Areceus.

What about an upgraded Tier Shift? Where not only low-tiers get their stats increased but higher tiers their stats decreased?

 

[Samtendo09]

What about an upgraded Tier Shift? Where not only low-tiers get their stats increased but higher tiers their stats decreased?

That would make it not only redundant but also too extreme.

There is also Negative Meta or whatever it was called, as well as 350 Cup (although I think both are discontinued).

 

[Zephyr Dragon Lord]

That would make it not only redundant but also too extreme.

There is also Negative Meta or whatever it was called, as well as 350 Cup (although I think both are discontinued).

...Like Extreme Tier Shift? We already have that, yo. Persian can force out a Primal Groudon in that meta!

 

[AquaticPanic]

...Like Extreme Tier Shift? We already have that, yo. Persian can force out a Primal Groudon in that meta!

Makes me wonder what the Alolan variant can do, with Fur Coat and Parting Shot

 

[Zephyr Dragon Lord]

Makes me wonder what the Alolan variant can do, with Fur Coat and Parting Shot

Higher tiered; it's not going to get as many boosts as regular Persian. Still, Fur Coat with those increased boosts is super enticing....

 

[Samtendo09]

...Like Extreme Tier Shift? We already have that, yo. Persian can force out a Primal Groudon in that meta!

As shoot! Yeah I forgot that, albeit the Uber nerfed is not included of course.

Imagine how Guzzlord would perform because of its boosted Defense and Special Defense... It would be both powerful and bulky!

 

[Whydon]

Hi everyone. So recently I was looking through some old metagames that might do well in this generation and I came upon Slowmons. If you don't know what t is, it's basically a metagame where Trick Room is always in effect. I thought about how tons of people have mentioned that generation 7 gave us a ton of slower Pokemon and I feel that Slowmons could do really win this generation since there are so many new Pokemon that could do really well in the metagame. I submitted it for approval and the reviewers seem to like it but they wanted to see what the cimmunity thinks of it, so I decided to post here!

It would be the same premise, except I would change the name (maybe TR Trials or something, suggestions are appreciated!) and there would, obviously, be new Pokemon in the metagame. I think the metagame could do really well this generation, but I'd like to see what everyone thinks of it first. Thanks!

 

[Rumors]

The Scales of Justice

Metagame premise: At the end of every turn, Pain Split is applied.

Potential bans and threats: Shedinja as an obvious ban, since only 1 HP means it'd nuke the heck out of everything else every turn.

Sub-level 100 Pokemon might also been ban worthy for similar reasons. You could effectively run stupid FEAR sets with moves like Protect and Dragon Rage. Keeping everything at 100 avoids trying to pick an arbitrary minimal level.

Potential threats? Anything with low base HP but good everything else. I think. It's kinda interesting. You want low base HP so you heal more and give less to the enemy, but you don't want to go so low you get OHKOed and the enemy doesn't get counter-nuked in return. Hard to say whether Stall or Offensive would rule since the former would whittle themselves down while the latter would risk doing serious self-harm by missing an OHKO.

Questions for the community: Anything particularly glaring that I am overlooking?

 

[Akumeoy]

The Scales of Justice

Metagame premise: At the end of every turn, Pain Split is applied.

Potential bans and threats: Shedinja as an obvious ban, since only 1 HP means it'd nuke the heck out of everything else every turn.

Sub-level 100 Pokemon might also been ban worthy for similar reasons. You could effectively run stupid FEAR sets with moves like Protect and Dragon Rage. Keeping everything at 100 avoids trying to pick an arbitrary minimal level.

Potential threats? Anything with low base HP but good everything else. I think. It's kinda interesting. You want low base HP so you heal more and give less to the enemy, but you don't want to go so low you get OHKOed and the enemy doesn't get counter-nuked in return. Hard to say whether Stall or Offensive would rule since the former would whittle themselves down while the latter would risk doing serious self-harm by missing an OHKO.
Questions for the community: Anything particularly glaring that I am overlooking?

The dominant playstyles will be Substitute and Focus Sash. Substitute's HP cost is effectively reduced, meaning it can easily be set up more than four times per match, all while cutting into your opponent's recovery. Focus Sash/Endure is an alternative strategy, in which you can get down to an advantageously low HP without needing to predict very hard, and then be out of priority range later. Belly Drum is also good here for obvious reasons, and Protect will let anything safely get off a Pain Split.

Stall will find it exceptionally difficult to wear down its opponents when they're always draining your HP. Toxapex's Regenerator is also your opponent's Regenerator. All offense has to deal with is having less HP on its mons, and this is a playstyle that will let its mons outright faint. I think bulky offense is the absolute most stally playstyle anyone could run, and even that will rely a lot less on

Slow pivoting will be really valuable too for getting your low-HP mons in to heal against higher-HP opponents.

This looks like a really, really interesting metagame, and I hope I get the chance to play it.

 

[Samtendo09]

Hi everyone. So recently I was looking through some old metagames that might do well in this generation and I came upon Slowmons. If you don't know what t is, it's basically a metagame where Trick Room is always in effect. I thought about how tons of people have mentioned that generation 7 gave us a ton of slower Pokemon and I feel that Slowmons could do really win this generation since there are so many new Pokemon that could do really well in the metagame. I submitted it for approval and the reviewers seem to like it but they wanted to see what the cimmunity thinks of it, so I decided to post here!

It would be the same premise, except I would change the name (maybe TR Trials or something, suggestions are appreciated!) and there would, obviously, be new Pokemon in the metagame. I think the metagame could do really well this generation, but I'd like to see what everyone thinks of it first. Thanks!

I think Slowmons had already existed in Gen 6 before, unless if I were wrong.

But I do agree that most slow Gen 7 Pokémon were going to be more useful. Think about a Sweeper Crabominable...

 

[fanyfan]

Hi everyone. So recently I was looking through some old metagames that might do well in this generation and I came upon Slowmons. If you don't know what t is, it's basically a metagame where Trick Room is always in effect. I thought about how tons of people have mentioned that generation 7 gave us a ton of slower Pokemon and I feel that Slowmons could do really win this generation since there are so many new Pokemon that could do really well in the metagame. I submitted it for approval and the reviewers seem to like it but they wanted to see what the cimmunity thinks of it, so I decided to post here!

It would be the same premise, except I would change the name (maybe TR Trials or something, suggestions are appreciated!) and there would, obviously, be new Pokemon in the metagame. I think the metagame could do really well this generation, but I'd like to see what everyone thinks of it first. Thanks!

I've been thinking on this idea for a while and love it. It sounds really fun with all the new slow mons this gen. I'd play it.

 

[Samtendo09]

I will give yet another shot for this one. Sorry if I become bothersome...
Metagame name: Instant Happening

Metagame premise: Everything that could wait for a turn or more, will inevitably happens (at now or at the end of turn, depended on the move). Anything that goes for five or more turns will inevitably ends at the end of the turn it was used. Anything that stays as long as the Pokémon is around does not count toward this metagame's rule.

Solar Beam/Blade will strike the moment it got activated (without Sun), Perish Song will instantly take effect and faint all Pokémon at the end of the turn of its usage, and the Weathers, Terrains and Rooms will go away after a turn. Future Sight and Doom Desire will also strikes at the end of the turn. There is no such thing as "take effect at the next/umpteenth turn".

Potential bans and threats: OU Clause. Perish Song could be considered as too unhealthy despite the sacrifice, and if Hyper Beam counted seeing the "recharge at the next turn", Porygon-Z could subject into suspect test or even outright ban as the recharge would happens at the same turn anyway after the usage of move (this at least, if Mega Kangaskhan was unbanned, would stop the Giga Impact spamming). With Psychic Terrain being almost useless (except for one turn Priority protection for Tapu Lele), priority become more prominent, and multiple moves such as Future Sight, Solar Beam/Blade, Sky Attack and other similar attacks are becoming more useful. Psychic-type, Grass-type and Flying-type may become more powerful with the unrestricted aforementioned move.

EDIT: Kyurem-Black may also get suspect tested does to finally having access to a powerful and useful Ice STAB in the form of Freeze Shock. Rest would also be too unhealthy does to potentially making stall too unpractical to deal with.
Questions for the community:
+ Which Pokémon could benefit the most from metagame's rule, and which Pokémon would be most hindered by the same rule?
+ Do the Hyper Beam variation counted toward this rule, or would be those too powerful in these case?
+ Which strategy (Offensive, Sweeping, Defensive, Stall, etc.) would be mostly affected by this rule?

EDIT: Wow! Five likes already? The intensity with the lack of charge and recharge, as well as every multi-turn mechanics such as Weathers into one-turn as something to do with it, this can be more favoured for both bulky and fast sweepers! Thank you all!

 

[Ludicrousity]

I will give yet another shot for this one. Sorry if I become bothersome...
Metagame name: Instant Happening

Metagame premise: Everything that could wait for a turn or more, will inevitably happens (at now or at the end of turn, depended on the move). Anything that goes for five or more turns will inevitably ends at the end of the turn it was used. Anything that stays as long as the Pokémon is around does not count toward this metagame's rule.

Solar Beam/Blade will strike the moment it got activated (without Sun), Perish Song will instantly take effect and faint all Pokémon at the end of the turn of its usage, and the Weathers, Terrains and Rooms will go away after a turn. Future Sight and Doom Desire will also strikes at the end of the turn. There is no such thing as "take effect at the next/umpteenth turn", but only "take effect at the end of the turn".

Potential bans and threats: Perish Song could be considered as too unhealthy despite the sacrifice, and if Hyper Beam counted seeing the "recharge at the next turn", Porygon-Z could subject into suspect test or even outright ban as the recharge would happens at the same turn anyway after the usage of move. Also quickban Geomancy. With Psychic Terrain being almost useless (except for one turn Priority protection for Tapu Lele), priority become more prominent, and multiple moves such as Future Sight, Solar Beam/Blade, Sky Attack and other similar attacks are becoming more useful. Psychic-type, Grass-type and Flying-type may become more powerful with the unrestricted aforementioned move.

Questions for the community:
+ Which Pokémon could benefit the most from metagame's rule, and which Pokémon would be most hindered by the same rule?
+ Do the Hyper Beam variation counted toward this rule, or would be those too powerful in these case?
+ Which strategy (Offensive, Sweeping, Defensive, Stall, etc.) would be mostly affected by this rule?

A couple of random thoughts:

• Hooray for Freeze Shock Kyurem-Black
• Mega Aerodactyl can abuse Sky Attack to it's hearts content
• Skull Bash is now more reliable than return thanks to more Base Power and the Defence Raise.
  
• Xurkitree can run Solar Beam > Energy Ball
• Sceptile can run Solar Beam

Probably a lot more, but these seem fun to me

 

[drampa's grandpa]

The dominant playstyles will be Substitute and Focus Sash. Substitute's HP cost is effectively reduced, meaning it can easily be set up more than four times per match, all while cutting into your opponent's recovery. Focus Sash/Endure is an alternative strategy, in which you can get down to an advantageously low HP without needing to predict very hard, and then be out of priority range later. Belly Drum is also good here for obvious reasons, and Protect will let anything safely get off a Pain Split.

Stall will find it exceptionally difficult to wear down its opponents when they're always draining your HP. Toxapex's Regenerator is also your opponent's Regenerator. All offense has to deal with is having less HP on its mons, and this is a playstyle that will let its mons outright faint. I think bulky offense is the absolute most stally playstyle anyone could run, and even that will rely a lot less on

Slow pivoting will be really valuable too for getting your low-HP mons in to heal against higher-HP opponents.

This looks like a really, really interesting metagame, and I hope I get the chance to play it.

I agree with a lot here, but why on earth would you run sash in a meta where you're rarely at full health thanks top constant pain splits.

I will give yet another shot for this one. Sorry if I become bothersome...
Metagame name: Instant Happening

Metagame premise: Everything that could wait for a turn or more, will inevitably happens (at now or at the end of turn, depended on the move). Anything that goes for five or more turns will inevitably ends at the end of the turn it was used. Anything that stays as long as the Pokémon is around does not count toward this metagame's rule.

Solar Beam/Blade will strike the moment it got activated (without Sun), Perish Song will instantly take effect and faint all Pokémon at the end of the turn of its usage, and the Weathers, Terrains and Rooms will go away after a turn. Future Sight and Doom Desire will also strikes at the end of the turn. There is no such thing as "take effect at the next/umpteenth turn", but only "take effect at the end of the turn".

Potential bans and threats: Perish Song could be considered as too unhealthy despite the sacrifice, and if Hyper Beam counted seeing the "recharge at the next turn", Porygon-Z could subject into suspect test or even outright ban as the recharge would happens at the same turn anyway after the usage of move. Also quickban Geomancy. With Psychic Terrain being almost useless (except for one turn Priority protection for Tapu Lele), priority become more prominent, and multiple moves such as Future Sight, Solar Beam/Blade, Sky Attack and other similar attacks are becoming more useful. Psychic-type, Grass-type and Flying-type may become more powerful with the unrestricted aforementioned move.

Questions for the community:
+ Which Pokémon could benefit the most from metagame's rule, and which Pokémon would be most hindered by the same rule?
+ Do the Hyper Beam variation counted toward this rule, or would be those too powerful in these case?
+ Which strategy (Offensive, Sweeping, Defensive, Stall, etc.) would be mostly affected by this rule?

Geomancy doesn't need to be banned... Smeargle isn't sweeping any time soon.

 

[AquaticPanic]

Holy mother of Bird Jesus, Sky Attack Sheer Force Braviary

 

[Samtendo09]

A couple of random thoughts:

• Hooray for Freeze Shock Kyurem-Black
• Mega Aerodactyl can abuse Sky Attack to it's hearts content
• Skull Bash is now more reliable than return thanks to more Base Power and the Defence Raise.
  
• Xurkitree can run Solar Beam > Energy Ball
• Sceptile can run Solar Beam

Probably a lot more, but these seem fun to me

Gotta think that now it got a respectful Ice STAB, Kyurem-Black would get likely to get banned or at least suspect tested, if we also take account that it may also Paralyze the opponent.

The Ruins of Alpha, Smeargle would not sweep by itself, but it is that if it successfully used Spore on a stall, then Baton Passed, unless if you can prove me otherwise.

Upon thinking, Rest could also have higher raise or be broken does to instant woke up the next turn, so the stall would become too much with it. Its your decision if I could let Rest go, suspect test this one, or ban it.

 

[drampa's grandpa]

The Ruins of Alpha, Smeargle would not sweep by itself, but it is that if it successfully used Spore on a stall, then Baton Passed, unless if you can prove me otherwise.

Baton Pass Clause stops that by banning passing speed plys another stat. Unless you're planning to remove that there's no problem. Smash pass doesn't exist in ou for a reason.

 

[Samtendo09]

Baton Pass Clause stops that.

I must missed the new Smogon Battle/PS! Battles Clauses modification then...

I will go easy and unban Geomancy, unless if Geomancy Smeargle would be proved too dangerous.

 

[GreenDrac0]

I will give yet another shot for this one. Sorry if I become bothersome...
Metagame name: Instant Happening

Metagame premise: Everything that could wait for a turn or more, will inevitably happens (at now or at the end of turn, depended on the move). Anything that goes for five or more turns will inevitably ends at the end of the turn it was used. Anything that stays as long as the Pokémon is around does not count toward this metagame's rule.

Solar Beam/Blade will strike the moment it got activated (without Sun), Perish Song will instantly take effect and faint all Pokémon at the end of the turn of its usage, and the Weathers, Terrains and Rooms will go away after a turn. Future Sight and Doom Desire will also strikes at the end of the turn. There is no such thing as "take effect at the next/umpteenth turn", but only "take effect at the end of the turn".

Potential bans and threats: OU Clause. Perish Song could be considered as too unhealthy despite the sacrifice, and if Hyper Beam counted seeing the "recharge at the next turn", Porygon-Z could subject into suspect test or even outright ban as the recharge would happens at the same turn anyway after the usage of move (this at least, if Mega Kangaskhan was unbanned, would stop the Giga Impact spamming). With Psychic Terrain being almost useless (except for one turn Priority protection for Tapu Lele), priority become more prominent, and multiple moves such as Future Sight, Solar Beam/Blade, Sky Attack and other similar attacks are becoming more useful. Psychic-type, Grass-type and Flying-type may become more powerful with the unrestricted aforementioned move.

EDIT: Kyurem-Black may also get suspect tested does to finally having access to a powerful and useful Ice STAB in the form of Freeze Shock. Rest would also be too unhealthy does to potentially making stall too unpractical to deal with.
Questions for the community:
+ Which Pokémon could benefit the most from metagame's rule, and which Pokémon would be most hindered by the same rule?
+ Do the Hyper Beam variation counted toward this rule, or would be those too powerful in these case?
+ Which strategy (Offensive, Sweeping, Defensive, Stall, etc.) would be mostly affected by this rule?

Assuming that hyper beam counts:
Normal types can use either Giga impact or Hyper beam as a stab
Mega Charizard Y can use Blast Burn as a stab
Ash-Greninja can use Hydro Cannon to have an easier time transforming and nuking stuff after transforming
Sceptile can use Frenzy Plant instead of leaf storm
Other starter Pokemon can also use these moves, but these three stand out the most
Pokemon with -ate abilities can use either Hyper beam or Giga impact as a stab

Also, how would Focus punch work?

 

[Schpoonman]

Focus Punch all happens in one turn. It shows a message as the very first thing in a turn (might be behind Mega Evolution), then uses a physical Fighting-type Attack with 150 BP and a priority of -3, with the condition that if the user of Focus Punch takes direct damage that turn, they'll flinch and not attack.