-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
-
Congrats to the winners of the 2023 Smog Awards!
Metagame Mega Evolution in Sun & Moon
- Thread starter Halcyon.
- Start date
- Status
5 Water-types? Hell no!!
Mega Swampert, Ferrothorn, Tapu Koko, Kingdra, Pelliper and maybe Toxicroak can be better
Haha you right. I dunno, I got carried away with water types. "I mean kingdra is awesome, but water shriken sounds so good in the rain. But...rest with manaphy sounds fun...and then swampert destroys the electric types..."
The thing about building a rain team is that you're limited to using one or two rain sweepers(and possibly one rain abuser). Just like when you build any other team, when you build a rain team, you want to take into account the relevant weaknesses of said playstyle/team archetype, and have members on that team to deal with what the team is vulnerable to. That being said, this goes to explain why you cannot just slap 5 swift swim or rain abusers along with a pelipper on a rain team, because the synergy would greatly struggle against certain matchups, with rain already being a matchup-reliant playstyle it already is. Some players may even opt to use other megas such as pinsir or scizor on rain teams, along with pokemon such as ferrothorn, to ease matchups against Pokémon rain otherwise may struggle with. However, that is not to say Mega swampert is not a viable pick for rain, which it certainly is, but some teams may prefer other megas/Pokémon depending on what threats they need to cover or what additional support they may need.
I was running a rain team with Swampert on showdown when SuMo first released, before they sorted out which megas were released. Roidpert is the real deal. It provides immense offensive and defensive utility. I can't wait to dust off this team again:
Damp Rock Def U-Turn Pelliper
4 attack Mega Swampert
LO Thunder/Brave Bird Tapu Koko
LO HP Electric Kingdra
Sp Def Ferrothorn
HW Defog Latias
Pelliper brings the rain for its teammates and makes a nice Volt-Turn core with Koko. Mega Swampert and Kingdra hit hard and fast and with HP Electric and Electric Terrain support, Kingdra lures Pelliper and Mantine for Swampert. Pelliper's Hurricane and Koko's Brave Bird nails bulky grass types that give the water sweepers trouble. Ferrothorn provides an excellent defensive core with Pelliper, brings Stealth Rocks and wears down switch-ins with Leech Seed, and is all the harder to kill with Rain weakening Fire attacks. Latias manages hazards with Defog (important for Pelliper's longevity), can switch into Mega Charizard Y if it needs to, and Psyshock helps presssure Mega Venusaur and Amoongus for the sweepers, and Healing Wish gives a warn down sweeper or Pelliper (and its invaluable rain) increased longevity.
Great offensive and defensive syngery all around.
Damp Rock Def U-Turn Pelliper
4 attack Mega Swampert
LO Thunder/Brave Bird Tapu Koko
LO HP Electric Kingdra
Sp Def Ferrothorn
HW Defog Latias
Pelliper brings the rain for its teammates and makes a nice Volt-Turn core with Koko. Mega Swampert and Kingdra hit hard and fast and with HP Electric and Electric Terrain support, Kingdra lures Pelliper and Mantine for Swampert. Pelliper's Hurricane and Koko's Brave Bird nails bulky grass types that give the water sweepers trouble. Ferrothorn provides an excellent defensive core with Pelliper, brings Stealth Rocks and wears down switch-ins with Leech Seed, and is all the harder to kill with Rain weakening Fire attacks. Latias manages hazards with Defog (important for Pelliper's longevity), can switch into Mega Charizard Y if it needs to, and Psyshock helps presssure Mega Venusaur and Amoongus for the sweepers, and Healing Wish gives a warn down sweeper or Pelliper (and its invaluable rain) increased longevity.
Great offensive and defensive syngery all around.
Last edited:
I have a question, but first I want to ask if its okay to ask about unreleased mega stones here?
Thanks for the answer, but I think my question (About Mega Diancie, a Mega Evolution of a Mythical pokemon, as well as natures) might fall outside that purview then.
Though a supposed a related question is in order. How often has Mega Zard (both versions) been used?
Last edited:
Just ask it. No harm in that.
ZardX has fallen out of favor recently, but ZardY is doing decently well.
Okay here goes.
I want to know if a Hasty nature might be preferable to Naive at this point, on the one hand, Talonflame got nerfed hard and Zard X is similar falling out of favor as the answer is. While Koko and Lele seemed to be more often than not Special Attackers (Koko having a higher Atk notwithstanding). On the other hand I don't know if there any threats that would require the slightly higher defense that Naive has over Hasty.
I want to know if a Hasty nature might be preferable to Naive at this point, on the one hand, Talonflame got nerfed hard and Zard X is similar falling out of favor as the answer is. While Koko and Lele seemed to be more often than not Special Attackers (Koko having a higher Atk notwithstanding). On the other hand I don't know if there any threats that would require the slightly higher defense that Naive has over Hasty.
Last edited:
It kinda depends on the Pokemon in question. For example, if you're running mixed Hoopa-U Hasty is most preferable since it reduces it's already bad Defense instead of ruining it's excellent Special Defense. But in general when dealing with Pokemon with balanced defensive stats, Naive is usually the go-to to take priority attacks much better since the majority of them are physical.
On the other hand if the Pokemon has any defensive application toward threats such as Tornadus-T to Tapu Bulu, Naive would usually and vice versa (Hasty) if for something like Tangrowth
In the case of Diancie, the normal form has good defenses even in the mega (though the 50 HP is a bit of a hindrance. I was asking if the rise of special attackers and the decrease of uses from the threats listed in the XY analysis (Brave birb and Zard X) made a Hasty nature more preferable for the offense set.
(This will be the last time I ask about this, at least until the Mega stone is released)
(This will be the last time I ask about this, at least until the Mega stone is released)
Teambuilding, right. What would you think would be a good partner to Mega Diancie? Bulu can make the omnipresent earthquakes hit less in return for having Diancie take that much more damage from Grass attacks, but I'm wondering if Meloetta (mosty because I'd like to make such a team work and her movepool does allow her coverage aganst Posion and Steel types that thereaten the Tapu), Protean Greninja, Tapu Lele, Tapu Koko, or Magearna (though with different natures for TR) would be good partners?
(and this was right after I said this would be the last time too...Okay this is definitely gonna be the last post I make until the Diancite is released!)
(and this was right after I said this would be the last time too...Okay this is definitely gonna be the last post I make until the Diancite is released!)
Magearna is definitely a good partner, as it shares no weaknesses with Magearna, except the ground one.
Tapu Lele is another great partner, as its psychic terrain blocks Scizor's Bullet Punch.
Tapu Lele is another great partner, as its psychic terrain blocks Scizor's Bullet Punch.
I think they're waiting to give these Mega Stones at the same time of that Japanese Competition (they're tailling the ranks btw). Usually, they give us the Mega Stones at the second Tuesday of the month, so yeah, they are a bit late.
Not Nihilego :(
I don't know if Magearna will be a great partner since they share a lot of checks, including all of the best Ground-types in the tier (notably Dugtrio, which can potentially trap both of them in one game) and quite a few of the typical bulky Steels. I can see a lure-ish set on Magearna (Fightinium Z, for instance) working decently though.
Ferrothorn (and Tangrowth to a lesser extent) has good defensive synergy with Mega Diancie and also helps net crucial KOs with entry hazard support. Toxapex would stack a Ground weakness and lack offensive presence, but it can fulfill a similar role if you have another Ground check on your team...like Landorus-T.
Protean Greninja is an obvious partner considering it works well with anything, but Spikes / Ice Beam / Extrasensory / Hidden Power Fire / Gunk Shot all happen to hit Mega Diancie's typical checks quite hard. Both Protean Greninja and Mega Diancie force a ton of switches so you can toy with your opponent to some extent. Maybe even run U-turn on Greninja to emphasize that strength.
Mega Diancie would also fit pretty well on Baton Pass teams since its base form actually has the bulk to get into the battle before Mega Evolving. It also has high initial power and Rock STAB, which is rare for BP. Even Fairy STAB isn't common on that archetype outside of Magearna, and there's no guarantee it's actually running a Fairy move anyway.
Diance + Magnezone is always a neat core
Then add a good Ground Resist (Lando, Tangrowth) and voila
Fake Out / Return / Ice Beam or Ice Punch / High Jump Kick
Fake Out is still an extremely good move since the combination of Fake Out + Return 2HKOes a ton of more offensive threats like Latios, non Dark Greninja, Koko, just a ton of things that can otherwise take any hit and retaliate.
Of course you can always just not run Fake Out anyway and use any other good option like PuP, Healing Wish, Baton Pass, Substitute, there's just a ton you could do in that slot since it is more flexible than the others. I was quite fond of Healing Wish last gen on Hyper Offensive teams myself.
Fake Out is still an extremely good move since the combination of Fake Out + Return 2HKOes a ton of more offensive threats like Latios, non Dark Greninja, Koko, just a ton of things that can otherwise take any hit and retaliate.
Of course you can always just not run Fake Out anyway and use any other good option like PuP, Healing Wish, Baton Pass, Substitute, there's just a ton you could do in that slot since it is more flexible than the others. I was quite fond of Healing Wish last gen on Hyper Offensive teams myself.
Last edited:
Agreed. Fake Out is still excellent STAB priority for Lopunny. There's a few reasons why it might not be necessary (Tapu Lele), in which case that fourth move could be any number of others. Thunder Punch isn't particularly useful as stuff like Tapu Fini and Toxapex take the same damage from Return and Celesteela takes more from Hi Jump Kick. I completely agree, if you forgo Fake Out the last move could be Power-up Punch, Healing Wish, Baton Pass, Sub or even Encore.
Fake Out is still great (for while Mega Lopunny gets its great Speed from turn 1, its power is rather underwhelming so avoiding some damage is good) so it will still be run most of the time.
Not mandatory (on which the massive amount of great status and boosting moves Lopunny has can be used there, or some coverage), but still very useful.
Not mandatory (on which the massive amount of great status and boosting moves Lopunny has can be used there, or some coverage), but still very useful.
Against Celesteela you should be very careful with HJK, as Protect is very common on it, so maybe Thunder Punch is a safer alternative to defeat it.
- Status