SPOILERS! General Pokémon Anime Discussion

If so, we might've just dealt with beginning fatigue during Melemele, which is practically the opposite of BW? The later arcs might even turn out as good as XY, even if nothing will surpass the DP anime! >:)

Also, do we not get to see Guzma until later in the Ula'Ula Arc? Speaking of arcs, it's nice to see that the story can be divided into more obvious story arcs.
 

Champion Leon

Banned deucer.
If so, we might've just dealt with beginning fatigue during Melemele, which is practically the opposite of BW? The later arcs might even turn out as good as XY, even if nothing will surpass the DP anime! >:)

Also, do we not get to see Guzma until later in the Ula'Ula Arc? Speaking of arcs, it's nice to see that the story can be divided into more obvious story arcs.
I dunno about Gen 4... it was definitely separate than May's Gen 3, contests but without a sibling and more bonding as friends.

I think Gen 7 is more like the Games of Gen 2, (HeartGold/Silver), the son/daughter of an evil crime organization head (From Giovanni.). It was also in Pokemon Generations, but on Silver not Green.

It will be very interesting, in fact Green and Silver in the manga are actually siblings and are son/daughter of Giovanni, and it will be interesting at the height of this Gen 7 of Giovanni makes an appearance (in person) like he did in Gen 5 anime and somewhat relate to Lillie's mom.

I would love to see Team Rocket suprise us, Giovanni included, and some Green/ Silver cameos even in flashback would be awesome.

*By Green I don't mean Gary, I mean the female protagonist in Gen 1 manga.

I hope they realize the anime needs to be bigger than the games, the darker story in the games should be expanded upon, rather than casually covered in the anime. If the anime is supposed to support the games, let it showcase the intricate stories, while also adding newer or different elements like the fact Team rocket and ash are in it.

I covered Iris.

Would you guys want any previous characters, big or small, to return to the anime?
How would Misty fair? Getting to ride Lapras and make use of the island setting to let her water Pokemon swim and snorkel.

What about May or Dawn? No contests, but maybe Trials would pique their interests...

Iris, her character is so independent of any real premise she could be anything here. But notice I said premise not purpose. Her purpose is to move up the ranks as a Dragon Master, like Misty's is a water Pokemon Master. Her purpose in Alola besides catching more Pokemon is up for anything. I don't even see her traveling to Alola hoping to see Ash, I think it would almost be like she runs into him because she is already there. She literally looks like the next trial captain! Why isn't she here?

Serena, unfinished business, to say the least, could give audiences closure on her final "interaction" with Ash, but maybe leaving it unresolved means it won't risk being ruined by revisiting "the moment."

Brock? He seems almost too old, but I could see him going crazy over Alolan Golem.

Tracey, he is probably going to want to catch some Pokémon that has a search feature... hmm. How about Pokedex Rotom?! That would be the perfect partner for Tracey, and would support Oak back home.

Cilan? Maybe he could cook up some... plot points? I doubt it. I can basically say he is a step up from Tracey, but in a category of supporting role without being necessary. I guess cooking gives him something over Tracey.

Clemont? The islands don't seem to want Technology, besides Rotom Pokedex. What would his inventions serve a purpose for? I could see a small arc on his studies and attempts to join the Institute, but failing miserably and then feeling like he isn't good enough. The final part of the arc is he realized that they wanted him to fail so he wouldn't uncover their secrets... Does he get to tell ash and friends before they stop him? Will Bonnie be there to save him in a surprise cameo at the last second? Stay tuned and find out!
Sorry Brock, Tracey and cilan, it seems at least Clemont found a purpose!

Max / Bonnie? Only if they actually did something.
 
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Pikachu315111

Ranting & Raving!
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It will be very interesting, in fact Green and Silver in the manga are actually siblings and are son/daughter of Giovanni, and it will be interesting at the height of this Gen 7 of Giovanni makes an appearance (in person) like he did in Gen 5 anime and somewhat relate to Lillie's mom.
Actually Green and Silver are unrelated. While Silver is Giovanni's son, him and Green (along with a few other kids) were kidnapped by the Masked Man to be his elite servants. Both Green and Silver formed a brother-sister bond, helping each other escape which eventual leads to their stories in the manga.

I hope they realize the anime needs to be bigger than the games, the darker story in the games should be expanded upon, rather than casually covered in the anime. If the anime is supposed to support the games, let it showcase the intricate stories, while also adding newer or different elements like the fact Team rocket and ash are in it.
Oh, they know that the anime will probably run out of material if they follow the games, filler is a give-in after all the planning is made and they see where there's a gap that needs to be filled. But the problem is the writers have little to no interest to the game's plot and go off to making their own story which for the most part feels disappointing compared to what the games gave us. Now to be fair, with Hoenn, Sinnoh, and Kalos there's really wasn't much about the villains your could do from the games so it was okay if they kept their story on the backburner and not having Ash & co. encounter them as much as you did in the games. In addition Hoenn and Sinnoh did have something close to the game's ending point for the villains. However they dropped the plot ball hard with Gen 5, they completely missed the point of Team Plasma. Then when they had to cancel Plasma's debut episode it completely derailed whatever story they made for them and had to throw in a Team Plasma arc AFTER the Pokemon League. Kalos didn't fair any better, Team Flare also essentially pushed to after the league and what their plan is has nothing to do what the games had (instead of Lysandre's plan to cull & genocide with the Ultimate Weapon which also brings in AZ's story, instead in the anime Lysandre wants to take over the world using Zygarde *yawn* ). And do we even need to mention all the interesting characters & locations in the games they passed over for their own, many being character/locations of the day and only a handful being interesting (though still not the character from the games you wanted to see).

And most mind-boggling about this is Pokemon Generations was made by the same people as the main anime (but obviously with a budget). HOW?! And I'm not asking for Pokemon Generations level animation here, what I'm asking is for Pokemon Generation level storytelling. Because even if they did change some things (though you could blame that on the them being short episodes), I still saw characters from the games I wanted to see in situations similar enough to what happened in the games. Why for the short series you stayed "loyal" while for the anime you completely discard most everything even though in the anime you had more room to develop the story?

Now it's too early to see what direction Alola is heading. The notable changes so far is that Lillie doesn't have Cosmog, Gladion doesn't have Type: Null, both aren't runaways (at least not Lillie), Hau is a no show, and there doesn't seem to be trail captains (though the Captains are appearing in some capacity, even Ilima is appearing soon despite his Trial being done with). That said, since nothing much happens on Mele Mele they could be using it to do most of the early character development before diving into the story starting with Akala.

Would you guys want any previous characters, big or small, to return to the anime?
How would Misty fair? Getting to ride Lapras and make use of the island setting to let her water Pokemon swim and snorkel.

What about May or Dawn? No contests, but maybe Trials would pique their interests...

Iris, her character is so independent of any real premise she could be anything here. But notice I said premise not purpose. Her purpose is to move up the ranks as a Dragon Master, like Misty's is a water Pokemon Master. Her purpose in Alola besides catching more Pokemon is up for anything. I don't even see her traveling to Alola hoping to see Ash, I think it would almost be like she runs into him because she is already there. She literally looks like the next trial captain! Why isn't she here?

Serena, unfinished business, to say the least, could give audiences closure on her final "interaction" with Ash, but maybe leaving it unresolved means it won't risk being ruined by revisiting "the moment."

Brock? He seems almost too old, but I could see him going crazy over Alolan Golem.

Tracey, he is probably going to want to catch some Pokémon that has a search feature... hmm. How about Pokedex Rotom?! That would be the perfect partner for Tracey, and would support Oak back home.

Cilan? Maybe he could cook up some... plot points? I doubt it. I can basically say he is a step up from Tracey, but in a category of supporting role without being necessary. I guess cooking gives him something over Tracey.

Clemont? The islands don't seem to want Technology, besides Rotom Pokedex. What would his inventions serve a purpose for? I could see a small arc on his studies and attempts to join the Institute, but failing miserably and then feeling like he isn't good enough. The final part of the arc is he realized that they wanted him to fail so he wouldn't uncover their secrets... Does he get to tell ash and friends before they stop him? Will Bonnie be there to save him in a surprise cameo at the last second? Stay tuned and find out!
Sorry Brock, Tracey and cilan, it seems at least Clemont found a purpose!

Max / Bonnie? Only if they actually did something.
My vote goes for Iris & Serena, since they deserve their post series cameo that Misty, May, and Dawn got. But let's look through all of them for the heck of it:

Misty: Misty is one of the my favorites (and yes, I'm Gen I bias/Pokeshipper :P), but I don't think she needs to appear. Would be neat, and Kanto & Alola have a close connection so wouldn't be crazy for her to go there to maybe get some of the new Water-type Pokemon for the Gym. However I would much prefer to see Misty visiting or phoning Ash after a League when he comes home to Pallet to catch up on things.
Brock: Same with Misty, though I do agree with Frozocrone that it would be hilarious to see Brock meeting Olivia (especially if the keep the game's part about Olivia looking for someone who isn't intimidated by her being a Kahuna). I don't think Croagunk could inject enough non-lethal poison to tame Brock. As for why Brock would be in Alola, well probably for doctor reasons. They could easily BS that on an island there's a plant which has powerful medical properties and Brock wants it for some reason.
Tracey: Eh, neat but don't think many would care (not Tracey's last cameo had him standing in a background of a video doing or saying nothing). Professor Oak could need to send something/get something from Samson so sends Tracey to deliver/receive it, so no problem getting him to Alola.
May/Dawn: These two are more difficult to get over to Alola. Alola has no contests so only reason for them to go is I guess vacation/visit Ash but overall I don't think it's necessary.
Max/Bonnie: They're with their family, helping at home for one day they can get their trainer license (even though we've seen trainers their age and younger) so I don't think we'll see them again.
Iris: Iris got shafted of her cameo last gen with no reason. For where she could appear, well we do have an ancient Dragon Trial.
Cilan: Well Cilan likes fishing and there's plenty of that to do in Alola so I guess he could appear and would be nice to see him (even better if he just so happens to be in Alola the same time as Brock and they both realize they knew & traveled with Ash).
Clemont: While not stuck at the Gym as say Misty, still he has responsibilities in a region far away from Alola. That said, considering Ash has yet another Electric-type technological genius as a classmate, Sophocles, they could maybe have Clemont appear for some kind of genius/technology convention that's being held in Alola.
Serena: I would be surprised if Serena doesn't appear for her cameo. There's no reason for her not to, granted she's also suppose to be participating in Pokemon Contests to better train to be Kalos Queen but she's not trying to be a Top Coordinator so wouldn't be a big deal if she didn't make it to a Grand Festival.

Olivia is pretty fantastic to watch on screen.
Couldn't help but notice some funny little changes with Olivia:

Gee Olivia, you look more dressed than usually... and flatter.

Also she uses a Lycanroc Midday instead of a Midnight. I guess that's because Gladion now is using a Lycanroc Midnight and Kukui doesn't have a Lycanroc Midday in the anime. And once again Ash's Rockruff gets some attention showing it bonding with Olivia's Lycanrock Midday. They're really pushing on the mystery of, if Rockruff, which one would it evolve into (leaving me cautious of whether it won't evolve or they give it a third evolution form (we'll see what Ultra Sun & Ultra Moon brings to the Rockruff family, which we know they're doing something as we saw a Lycanroc Midday in the sneak peak trailer)).
 
I loved the character development for Lillie. It was her first battle as a trainer, and she had already tried touching Pikachu several times. The thrill of the first battle was a plausible reason for her to bond with Pikachu. Shiron isn't diminished by it for me.

Also, the second opening is nice in images and brings the first theme song. It's probably not going to stick as an opening. I believe this is to promote the Movie only, that's why Marshadow and Ho-oh are there. Probably, after a few weeks from the release of Movie 20, it'll go back to the regular one, at least in the Theme Song.
 

Champion Leon

Banned deucer.
I loved the character development for Lillie. It was her first battle as a trainer, and she had already tried touching Pikachu several times. The thrill of the first battle was a plausible reason for her to bond with Pikachu. Shiron isn't diminished by it for me.

Also, the second opening is nice in images and brings the first theme song. It's probably not going to stick as an opening. I believe this is to promote the Movie only, that's why Marshadow and Ho-oh are there. Probably, after a few weeks from the release of Movie 20, it'll go back to the regular one, at least in the Theme Song.
I hope Ho-oh is cool because they never had it in any of the other movies, so it's not just a 20th anniversary for ash it's a first time big screen feature for the Fire bird (1st episode aired before we know of Moltres)
 

Pikachu315111

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Lillie progression is good and it's not through a reflex reaction but this time with grit and determination.

Lana getting a Z-rings gives me hope that the others will have their own Z-rings in due time.
If that's what the angle they were going for with Lillie's fear of Pokemon I guess that's alright as long as they keep it consistent.

I'm guessing by the end everyone will have a Z-ring.
 
If that's what the angle they were going for with Lillie's fear of Pokemon I guess that's alright as long as they keep it consistent.

I'm guessing by the end everyone will have a Z-ring.
I've already said it before. I believe the anime happens before the games, and that we'll be able to see how each and every one of them becomes a captain.
 

Champion Leon

Banned deucer.
I've already said it before. I believe the anime happens before the games, and that we'll be able to see how each and every one of them becomes a captain.
I somewhat disagree. Since they are releasing Ultra Sun and Moon they will probably tie it in with some of the future changes as well. After all, people mentioned it was taken in the future so, maybe they will have the anime catch up to the new games!

Surprises are in store! I'm sure Marshadow from the sequel games will be in an upcoming episode.

Wouldn't it be nice if Ash actually caught a legendary? Hint, Marshadow, Hint.
 

Pikachu315111

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Isn't that the song (minus the lyrics) Melody plays on her ocarina in the Movie 2000? Seems like an odd choice, like I'd more expect something from the 1st Pokemon Movie though I guess the song has a connection to what's going on?
 

Pikachu315111

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Hmm...

*Listens to Lugia's song, listen's to Oracion*

... I think if you played these songs on the the same instrument back to back or mixed their pieces together no one would notice they were different songs...
 
From what I can tell, the Akala trials are rushing (only three more episodes until the battle against Olivia), which might mean we're seeing a faster pace, or the story's going back to the filler we're used to but don't love by any means.
 
Shit pacing.

Then again, what do you expect? Director is same one behind Dragon Ball GT.

I had hoped that maybe she would have gotten better. Alas, not to be.

There was another preview for the movie. Marshadow basically throttling Gary Cross.
 

Champion Leon

Banned deucer.
Has this show ever had good pacing?

Like seriously, has it? I honestly don't know (too much to watch for me to want to judge), but I'm leaning towards "no".
I just thought today when I came across the last episode of Misty clip on YouTube how slow and boring all of Johto was. I haven't watched most of it since it came out nearly 20 years ago, but I still remember the endless worthless episodes, not even good filler. Episodes about chikarita and getting lost, my childhood memory has not forgotten the pace, especially when we have Netflix and don't have to wait a week to watch another episode like we do with sun and moon. They should make better filler because we all know from naruto how it felt when months went by with like 1 episode of progress.
At 8 episodes every 2 months, it could be months before we finally get something good.

You would think that at least we don't have the naruto director, but when will Pokémon ever be like Orange Islands, where the entire season might be filler, but something interesting actually happens (like ash winning his only championship which makes up for everything not really mattering). Rather than just pointless filler randomness.
 
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Has this show ever had good pacing?

Like seriously, has it? I honestly don't know (too much to watch for me to want to judge), but I'm leaning towards "no".
AG is the closest I could consider to good pacing. They didn't drag stuff for too long while giving enough time for the characters to develop.

I also feel that DP has good pacing as well, even though it was a bit messier toward the ending.
 
Episode was great. They usually are when Ash isn't the focus.

The new movie also premiered in France tonight.

Don't go in expecting a nostalgia trip.

The past companions do make appearances as cameos in the end though
 

Karxrida

Death to the Undying Savage
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AG is the closest I could consider to good pacing. They didn't drag stuff for too long while giving enough time for the characters to develop.

I also feel that DP has good pacing as well, even though it was a bit messier toward the ending.
Didn't AG stuff the entirety of the Aqua/Magma storyline into like 3 episodes, on top of half-assing it?

I also distinctly remember dropping the anime for long time (like a year maybe?) during Hoenn, coming back to find only about 2 Gyms worth of progress was made.

Episode was great. They usually are when Ash isn't the focus.

The new movie also premiered in France tonight.

Don't go in expecting a nostalgia trip.

The past companions do make appearances as cameos in the end though
I decided to read some movie spoilers and... wow. This movie has some stupid if the spoilers are true.
 
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The one year gap between 7th and 8th gym .... Grrr
This, also Dawn+Monferno meant that everyone else had to job.

Seriously DP had shit pacing after Fantina, one of the few salvageable periods in the anime was the Maylene and Byron parts merely because there was development after that the development was very focused on just a small part of the cast and the fillers started to rack up. I mean seriously, there were decent to good filler like the mismagius episode or the trainer school with Stalker Conway being introduced as a rival followed by the fucking second girl to actually show afection for Ash and her breeding deal and then we got drooling issues that barely even featured a pokemon of the day.
 

Champion Leon

Banned deucer.
This, also Dawn+Monferno meant that everyone else had to job.

Seriously DP had shit pacing after Fantina, one of the few salvageable periods in the anime was the Maylene and Byron parts merely because there was development after that the development was very focused on just a small part of the cast and the fillers started to rack up. I mean seriously, there were decent to good filler like the mismagius episode or the trainer school with Stalker Conway being introduced as a rival followed by the fucking second girl to actually show afection for Ash and her breeding deal and then we got drooling issues that barely even featured a pokemon of the day.
Someone needs to do a Pokémon Kai, and just air storyline episodes, and remove even semi-filler episodes, like when Buizel learns Ice Punch. We don't need to waste an episode on something that doesn't require explanation, nor do we care: you catch Pokémon with moves already known, no need to watch an explanation. Lol if they ever actually use TMs or HMs, that almost takes out the value of an episode dedicated to "learning a new move". Instant training done in a second. We should see Ash maximize his team, training them with EVs, TMs, Ability Capsule, and Eviolite or other items.

As for filler, I guess it would be justifiable if it is a condition, like cindaquil finally being able to control its flame on the back in a relevant filler episode, (ironically they resolve it by simply evolving it- making all that plot point stuff seem pointless with such a quick fix), but I would rather just make it worth watching with gyms, catches, evolves, releases, character joins/leaves, Pokémon league/frontier/trial, and plot points like when Ash learns about the officer Jenny and nurse joy in each town.

Exception: Good Battles such as running into a rival mid season for a battle. Or Misty facing that trainer in the orange islands... with a Wild Golduck!
 
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Max. Optimizer

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I've always wanted to break down two specific iconic scenes from the very first Pokémon Movie: the one with Dr. Fuji and Mewtwo that takes place at the Cinnabar Island Lab and the one between Meowth and its cloned counterpart later on in the movie. Back when the movie was first released in theaters I was still fairly young, hence unable to fully grasp the moral and the beauty of the story. Back in the day the Pokémon franchise had a bad reputation of being nothing but a debased "show for children" that was only meant to help market a plethora of games, toys and trading cards. However, in hindsight I'm convinced that these two specific iconic scenes are the concrete prime examples, substantiating that "Pokémon" is very well able to treat serious topics!

Feel free to listen to Mewtwo's theme from the movie that I provided down below in order to embrace the atmosphere.


First of all I'd like to point out that they absolutely nailed the design and the color palette of the Cinnabar Island Lab at the beginning of the movie. It's a really dark and gloomy place with gurgling fluid in tubes and with only a bit of light that emits from some of the computer monitors and you can barely even see the faces of the other scientists that are part of Dr. Fuji's cloning research team. In my opinion they have successfully managed to build up the perfect mood for this scene, since we, as the viewers, feel just as clueless and foreign as Mewtwo in that situation. While the theme of "death" had already been treated prior to the movie in the Game Boy games by implementing the notorious Lavender Town with its iconic graveyard, the movie writers also greatly managed to implement this topic by immediately telling us that many Pokémon have died during the cloning process and that Mewtwo has been the only Pokémon so far that has been strong enough to survive. Ironically, in the games Mr. Fuji can be found in Lavender town where he tries to make up for what he did in the past by comforting the people that come to Lavender Town in order to mourn the deaths of their beloved Pokémon. We've already seen this theme of "humans trying to play God by creating life" in works like Frankenstein, but I find it fascinating how a "franchise for children" managed to treat this topic with so much care and thought. The scene ends with Mewtwo destroying the Cinnabar Island Lab and departing to find its purpose in life. The fact that they did not only treat a topic like "cloning", that is still controversial and complex to this very day, but also voiced questions like "Who am I?" and "What is my purpose (in life)?", which are some of the elemental philosophical questions that humans have been asking themselves ever since the earliest dawning of mankind, shows you how deep and thoughtful this movies really is and in what great contrast it stands to the usually peppy and upbeat episodes of the main series.

Fast forward to the scene with the two Meowth.
While we've already established at this point that the beginning of the movie successfully managed to raise a couple of crucial questions for consideration and gave the viewer a bit of time to reflect on the topics at hand, it also greatly manages to conclude the questions towards the end of the movie.

It's kind of funny how they used Meowth, a character that is undeniably only meant for comic relief purposes in the episodes of the main series, as a medium to voice one of the most crucial lines of dialogue with its cloned counterpart:

"We do have a lot in common. The same earth, the same air, the same sky."
"Maybe if we started looking at what's the same… …instead of always looking at what's different, well, who knows?"

Come to think of it, this mentality would also greatly benefit us as a human species and society. Life is precious beyond all worth and too short to debate over "who's superior", based on something as meaningless as physical appearance (size, skin color etc). We're a miracle (which is also the adequate title of one of the movie OSTs).

The movie further concludes with Mewtwo realizing "the true power that they all share deep inside" after "they set aside their differences", that "the circumstances of one's birth are irrelevant" and that "it is what you do with the gift of life that determines who you are".

Retrospectively it's true that there is no definite "purpose" in life, unless we give our lives a purpose. We need to go out into the world and forge our own destiny!

I've never witnessed any other franchises aimed at a younger audience providing so much food for thought while treating their topics with so much pithy symbolism, seriousness and dignity.

In conclusion: the movie has become an eye-opening classic over time, ranging from a dark premise with an unusual serious tone to a rewarding, educational and motivational conclusion, and it's always worth to go back and revisit it!
 
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