M&M Mix and Mega

[InfernapeTropius11]

not trying to argue on here. but all i read from this is (literally shortening each topic) "your mon is trash, your rank is trash, i'm better then you, prove to me your set is decent" which is hardly accomplishing anything, you aren't improving the community, you aren't improving yourself, and you aren't improving thesecondbest. if he doesn't want to accept your harassment criticisms then oh well, tell him and the others ways to improve it, and if he rejects it, instead of acting like your a superior being, just let it go. we are a community. this is NOT community-like behavior. pros should help others, not try to look superior.

like, i hate being the "annoying goody goody" in these conversations that barely brings anything relevant, but at least i try to improve others by giving genuine ideas. not trying to be a douche to you or anything.

To be fair that is essentially the point I'm trying to convey, though much more harsh than I intended (and minus the I'm better than you bit). If he wants his suggestion to be taken seriously he has to back it up, and it must be backed up better than "it did a thing low ladder!!1!" And forgive me if I lack patience for someone who has consistently shown in the past that they aren't willing to back down even when proven wrong, and whose essential counter-argument here was "I admitted it loses to half the meta, but you accused me of not testing so you're wrong," not "it's actually good and here's why." I also did suggest level 100 Smeargle was infinitely superior to this set, although I still believe a mold breaker stone would be better if you insist on using Smeargle (personally I think Shuckle is a better webs setter but Smeargle has its advantages, namely more speed and Spore). He essentially did reject my post, despite lacking evidence to back up his claims, and if I just let it go people might actually think he won the argument and the set is good, which it most definitely is not. Explain to me how leading new users to believe trash is good helps the community? That doesn't help those who seek to improve their skills by reading these resources on smogon achieve their goals. Perhaps I could have phrased it a little more nicely but it's difficult to reason with people who are adamant that they are correct (despite being unable to provide evidence/reasoning to support their claim) so I figured I had to be a little more blunt.

 

[Quantum Tesseract]

not trying to argue on here. but all i read from this is (literally shortening each topic) "your mon is trash, your rank is trash, i'm better then you, prove to me your set is decent" which is hardly accomplishing anything, you aren't improving the community, you aren't improving yourself, and you aren't improving thesecondbest. if he doesn't want to accept your harassment criticisms then oh well, tell him and the others ways to improve it, and if he rejects it, instead of acting like your a superior being, just let it go. we are a community. this is NOT community-like behavior. pros should help others, not try to look superior.

like, i hate being the "annoying goody goody" in these conversations that barely brings anything relevant, but at least i try to improve others by giving genuine ideas. not trying to be a douche to you or anything.

Yes, it's probably true that this won't, say, magically clear ladder of bad sets, but it's also true that level 36 bannetite smeargle is objectively worthless and has no place in this thread. Maybe it would have been better for him to ignore it and let a mod remove it (cough Chloe. cough), but leaving horrendously terrible misinformation is worse than posting something that's condescending at this level.

 

[Chloe]

I'm not removing anything, but this ends here. There's no point trying to critique IT11's argument style, when the topic at hand should be tsb's Smeargle. For what it's worth, IT11 is 100% correct that you should never use that set, but you're attacking him for how he phrased his post? Give me a break.

 

[tegrof19]

is there a conflict as to why there is no official stance on the one stone limit? or are we just waiting for ompl

 

[Fardin]

smeargle should not be used in mnm at all btw. horrible speed, along with bad bulk is just not good. it could be decent with sash but there are too many mbounce mons out there

 

[Chloe]

is there a conflict as to why there is no official stance on the one stone limit? or are we just waiting for ompl

After OMPL, there will be a post with a few updates. This will most likely be one of them.

 

[Deleted User 91486]

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7mixandmega-618300861
This replay shows, how useless a LV36 smeargle is in BH. It allowed me to set up both Sthealth Rock and Trick Room for free with Sablenite Diancie AND by intentionally moonblasting into its Destiny Bond, I also got a free switch to Cameruptite Volcanion to start a sweep.

 

[Yahooboo]

This replay shows, how useless a LV36 smeargle is in BH.

what exactly does BH have to do with this.


IK it was just a mistake :P

 

[Deleted User 91486]

Sorry, of course I meant MnM and not BH. Altough Smeargle is terrible in BH too, where every mon has Smeargle's movepool xD

 

[drampa's grandpa]

I was trying to find some good Aggronite Grass types (similar to Buzzwole) and was having some difficulty. This is the best I came up with:

Chesnaught @ Aggronite
Ability: Bulletproof
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Iron Head
- Leech Seed
- Spiky Shield
- Synthesis

Oo: spikes, grass stab, eq, toxic

but I suspect it's far from ideal. What grass types have other people been using if any?

Edit:

what would an aggronite grass do better than say sablenite ferro

Movepool mostly. Ferrothorn lacks reliable recovery of any sort. But there are other considerations like stats (almost everything has higher speed than ferrothorn).

 

[tegrof19]

what would an aggronite grass do better than say sablenite ferro

 

[PrincessGardevoir]

I was trying to find some good Aggronite Grass types (similar to Buzzwole) and was having some difficulty. This is the best I came up with:

Chesnaught @ Aggronite
Ability: Bulletproof
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Iron Head
- Leech Seed
- Spiky Shield
- Synthesis

Oo: spikes, grass stab, eq, toxic

but I suspect it's far from ideal. What grass types have other people been using if any?

Edit:

Movepool mostly. Ferrothorn lacks reliable recovery of any sort. But there are other considerations like stats (almost everything has higher speed than ferrothorn).

Tapu Bulu @ Aggronite
Ability: Grassy Surge
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpDef / 8 Atk
Careful Nature
- Horn Leech
- Smart Strike / Rock Slide / Superpower
- Bulk Up
- Taunt / Whirlwind

Here's a fun lil' one. It's not something I've experimented too much with, since I've had far more fun with Aggronite Gyarados, but this thing's still good from time to time. Bulk Up until Horn Leech does enough damage to consistently heal you, then just slowly start whittling teams down. Steel typing and Filter really help Bulu out since they give him the chance to properly be able to sit in front of teams late-game once Pdon and stuff that wall Grass/Steel and carry Fire coverage, notably Zapdos with Heat Wave and other Aggronite mons, are dead. The 2nd attacking option is really up to you. Smart Strike hits for STAB damage, Rock Slide hits Zapdos and other flying types, and Superpower hits Steels as hard as possible but drops you down a Bulk Up per use. Taunt and Whirlwind I've experimented with, and I can't seem to really find a good 4th slot. Whirlwind is nice for last-ditch effort stopping sweeps, while Taunt prevents things such as Blissey and physical walls from doing anything.

Not the BEST thing in the world, nor was it intended to be. I just made this post for fun, since Aggronite really is just a 'fun' stone.

 

[Chloe]

Since Mix and Mega won't be in the OMPL tiebreaker round I figured I'd make an update post that I've been planning to make for a while.

Firstly, I'd like to thank jrdn and nv for their continued commitment to the council but we're saying farewell to both of them for the time being. It was great having both of them on the council, and their input was much appreciated. I'll miss having you both there :[

Secondly, we've decided to implement the One Stone Clause that we had last generation. Since we have all stones released, the two stone clause is no longer needed. This will actively encourage diversity and limit dual Sablenite stall. :D!

Finally, we will be conducting a suspect test starting in the next few days that should tackle an issue many people have with the current metagame, Marshadow. I will give people an opportunity to play the meta with the new stone clause in place before commencing the suspect test.

Thanks to everyone for your continued interest in the metagame!

Tagging The Immortal to implement the One Stone Clause, thank you :>

 

[The Official Glyx]

Ladies and gentleladies, I present to you:

THE SET TO GET MARSHADOW BANNED!

Marshadow @ Metagrossite / Lucarionite
Ability: Technician
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
IVs: 0 HP
- Spectral Thief
- Close Combat
- Substitute
- Endeavor

Been wondering which move to put in that fourth slot? Wonder no more! For Endeavor puts a hard stop to any and all would-be Marshadow counters after Marshy's used Substitute 3 times, or at least taken equivalent damage. Being dropped down this low forces the opponent to either recover, or straight up sacrifice a mon in order to save face.

To be honest, this set has convinced me that Marshadow might legitimately be broken-

 

[dhelmise]

Ladies and gentleladies, I present to you:

THE SET TO GET MARSHADOW BANNED!

Marshadow @ Metagrossite / Lucarionite
Ability: Technician
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
IVs: 0 HP
- Spectral Thief
- Close Combat
- Substitute
- Endeavor

Been wondering which move to put in that fourth slot? Wonder no more! For Endeavor puts a hard stop to any and all would-be Marshadow counters after Marshy's used Substitute 3 times, or at least taken equivalent damage. Being dropped down this low forces the opponent to either recover, or straight up sacrifice a mon in order to save face.

To be honest, this set has convinced me that Marshadow might legitimately be broken-

shadow sneak or bulk up

 

[The Official Glyx]

shadow sneak or bulk up

Both are meh

 

[Funbot28]

Yeh the set honestly seems pretty bad since ur foregoing better options that can actually boasters Marsh's offensive capabilities (ie: Sneak and Bulk Up). Substitute can work on certain Metagrossite sets to ease predictions, but apart from that yeh Marsh only really has one (broken mind you) set.

 

[The Official Glyx]

Yeh the set honestly seems pretty bad since ur foregoing better options that can actually boasters Marsh's offensive capabilities (ie: Sneak and Bulk Up). Substitute can work on certain Metagrossite sets to ease predictions, but apart from that yeh Marsh only really has one (broken mind you) set.

Marshadow has walls with any other set.

Sneak hits Deoxys-Speed and other Marshadow, but is literally useless otherwise.

Bulk Up isn't doing you any favors unless you're some kind of bulky spread, which I highly doubt.

Endeavor is just straight up superior to any and all alternatives, but I can go into detail and mathematically prove its use over Shadow Sneak, Bulk Up, Ice Punch, Drain Punch, and Poison Jab if needed- all the moves between Spectral/CC and Sub in usage stats

 

[Mark K]

Ladies and gentleladies, I present to you:

THE SET TO GET MARSHADOW BANNED!

Marshadow @ Metagrossite / Lucarionite
Ability: Technician
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
IVs: 0 HP
- Spectral Thief
- Close Combat
- Substitute
- Endeavor

Been wondering which move to put in that fourth slot? Wonder no more! For Endeavor puts a hard stop to any and all would-be Marshadow counters after Marshy's used Substitute 3 times, or at least taken equivalent damage. Being dropped down this low forces the opponent to either recover, or straight up sacrifice a mon in order to save face.

To be honest, this set has convinced me that Marshadow might legitimately be broken-

Honestly this set is incredible. Only really has one flaw, once it's known, it doesn't really repeat the feat. It could work in tournament scenes and the like but it's not optimal when laddering or playing the same opponents with the same team repeatedly.

 

[Highlord]

Ladies and gentleladies, I present to you:

THE SET TO GET MARSHADOW BANNED!

Marshadow @ Metagrossite / Lucarionite
Ability: Technician
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
IVs: 0 HP
- Spectral Thief
- Close Combat
- Substitute
- Endeavor

Been wondering which move to put in that fourth slot? Wonder no more! For Endeavor puts a hard stop to any and all would-be Marshadow counters after Marshy's used Substitute 3 times, or at least taken equivalent damage. Being dropped down this low forces the opponent to either recover, or straight up sacrifice a mon in order to save face.

To be honest, this set has convinced me that Marshadow might legitimately be broken-

I was initially hesitant on the effectiveness on this set considering that Marshadow will be forgoing Bulk Up and Shadow Sneak; two great moves for combating offensive teams, but its balance breaking power is really nice after looking into it.

It is important to note that set fits better on bulkier teams because they have the luxury to switch out Marshadow whenever required.

1. Keep using Substitute until Marshadow reaches 1 HP in against something that normally checks it such as Arceus-Fairy
2. Switch out of Arceus-Fairy
3. Later in the game, send Marshadow into something threatened by it like Ampharasite Jirachi
4. Force a dilemma between Arceus-Fairy potentially taking an endeavor, Jirachi taking a Close combat or just sacking something to save both

It really puts pressure on teams that do not exert that much pressure x_x

I'm guessing Swagger Marshadow will do similar things if the Marshadow check does not have Magic Bounce. Still not ban worthy though...

 

[Deceton]

Ok a silly but necessory question

What if you made ditto hold a stone(eg lucarionite). Wouldn't it be able to decimate teams? Its one time but imposter thier mega then remega, i think that would be broken

Sry if this was already answered but there are alot of thread pages for me to seek

 

[willempju]

Ok a silly but necessory question

What if you made ditto hold a stone(eg lucarionite). Wouldn't it be able to decimate teams? Its one time but imposter thier mega then remega, i think that would be broken

Sry if this was already answered but there are alot of thread pages for me to seek

No, because any form-change (for example Ditto or Ash-Greninja) will revert back to its original form just before mega evolving, so you would just have an ordinary mega evolved Ditto.

In this category, I asked this question a few months ago, but it was never answered. Because of the above mechanic Zygarde-Complete will transform back to regular Zygarde when mega evolving (I think), so why is it banned from holding mega stones, since effectively it is just a regular Zygarde?

 

[Chloe]

No, because any form-change (for example Ditto or Ash-Greninja) will revert back to its original form just before mega evolving, so you would just have an ordinary mega evolved Ditto.

In this category, I asked this question a few months ago, but it was never answered. Because of the above mechanic Zygarde-Complete will transform back to regular Zygarde when mega evolving (I think), so why is it banned from holding mega stones, since effectively it is just a regular Zygarde?

A similar story to why Dragonite is banned. Abuse of bulk boosting ability pre-mega into powerful -ate attacker post-mega.

 

[Deceton]

No, because any form-change (for example Ditto or Ash-Greninja) will revert back to its original form just before mega evolving, so you would just have an ordinary mega evolved Ditto.

In this category, I asked this question a few months ago, but it was never answered. Because of the above mechanic Zygarde-Complete will transform back to regular Zygarde when mega evolving (I think), so why is it banned from holding mega stones, since effectively it is just a regular Zygarde?

Ohk so it just reverts back.
Lost oppertunity ditto, guess uour better by scarfed

 

[lalalama]

Just a thought, but it would be interesting and fun if the most common megas were given custom sprites. (pixilate zygarde, sablenite blissey, etc.) It would just add more flavor to the games.