I've had a malamar for a year, used it once against a Tyranitar and lost, and would like to bring this back up again because it got utterly ignored last time. Its one gimmick is useless
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Data ASB Feedback & Game Issues Thread - Mk IV
- Thread starter Its_A_Random
- Start date
Hi
by virtue of the +2 damage boost to normal Z Crystals, sig crystals are severely underpowered.
I mean, it is already well estabilished that the normal Z Crystals are more versatile. That is not my point. My point is that the normal Z-Crystals are as good (and sometimes better) than the Sig Z-Crystals at dealing damage, which, in theory, is sig Z-Crystals' main turf.
For example, on a neutral target:
Catastropika: 20.5 bap | Z-Volt Tackle: 19bap + 2 damage = 21
Malicious Moonsault: 18bap | Z-Darkest Lariat: 16bap + 2 damage = 18
Oceanic Operetta: 20bap | Z-Sparkling Aria: 18bap + 2 damage = 20
Pulverizing Pancake: 24bap | Z-Giga Impact: 20bap + 2 damage = 22
Sinister Arrow Raid: 18bap | Z-Spirit Shackle: 16bap + 2 damage = 18
The Z-moves with additional effects (Mew, Eevee, Raichu-A) you can argue that have their advantages. But the vanilla ones are severely outmatched given the bigger picture.
Not to mention the versatility thinge and how, in the long run, considering only damaging moves being used, normal Z-Crystal will always outdamage sig Z-Crystals, by virtue of having a boost that applies irrespective of the usage of the Z-move itself.
Can't we just add some added damage to sig items? To the stab of the respective Z-move or the stabs of the mon or, well, anything really. While they will still be arguably inferior (as versatility is a key aspect in ASB) at least that wouldn't be outmatched in everything by the regular Z-Crystals...which, I think isn't the point of having sig items to begin with.
by virtue of the +2 damage boost to normal Z Crystals, sig crystals are severely underpowered.
I mean, it is already well estabilished that the normal Z Crystals are more versatile. That is not my point. My point is that the normal Z-Crystals are as good (and sometimes better) than the Sig Z-Crystals at dealing damage, which, in theory, is sig Z-Crystals' main turf.
For example, on a neutral target:
Catastropika: 20.5 bap | Z-Volt Tackle: 19bap + 2 damage = 21
Malicious Moonsault: 18bap | Z-Darkest Lariat: 16bap + 2 damage = 18
Oceanic Operetta: 20bap | Z-Sparkling Aria: 18bap + 2 damage = 20
Pulverizing Pancake: 24bap | Z-Giga Impact: 20bap + 2 damage = 22
Sinister Arrow Raid: 18bap | Z-Spirit Shackle: 16bap + 2 damage = 18
The Z-moves with additional effects (Mew, Eevee, Raichu-A) you can argue that have their advantages. But the vanilla ones are severely outmatched given the bigger picture.
Not to mention the versatility thinge and how, in the long run, considering only damaging moves being used, normal Z-Crystal will always outdamage sig Z-Crystals, by virtue of having a boost that applies irrespective of the usage of the Z-move itself.
Can't we just add some added damage to sig items? To the stab of the respective Z-move or the stabs of the mon or, well, anything really. While they will still be arguably inferior (as versatility is a key aspect in ASB) at least that wouldn't be outmatched in everything by the regular Z-Crystals...which, I think isn't the point of having sig items to begin with.
Proposal: Add the "Increases the Pokemon's highest true base stat (e.g. 130 Atk) of Attack, Defense, Special Attack, and Special Defense by one (1) Rank. If the highest true base stat is tied, each Rank is raised." line to all signature Z-Crystals.
Reasoning: I like the idea of adding the STABs, but I think with how bottlenecked the signature Z-Crystals ended up being, adding the ability to gain access to stat boosts everywhere would benefit them appropriately.
i sense even more power creep
not that it particularly matters to me, I guess
But I'm going to disagree with jayy because as frosty pointed out, the point of the nonsig zcrystals is that they have versatility. If we give sig crystals versatility, then ?_?
It makes more sense to give a more focused boost to the sig z-crystals.
not that it particularly matters to me, I guess
But I'm going to disagree with jayy because as frosty pointed out, the point of the nonsig zcrystals is that they have versatility. If we give sig crystals versatility, then ?_?
It makes more sense to give a more focused boost to the sig z-crystals.
We're kind of completely dependent on a small handful of users (like 1) to ref all of ASB. I mean, look at gyms and see how many of them aren't being reffed by Toon right now. Of course, we can all say that we'll ref more and pull our own weight if we have to, but historically this has not been the case.
Since this isn't really a sustainable long-term strategy, why don't we expand self-reffing to cover more serious matches to lessen the need for outside refs? It wouldn't be mandatory by any means and we wouldn't let inexperienced refs/battlers do it, but if 2 long-term users want to do a gym fight without being slowed down by the need for a ref, it could be an option.
Since this isn't really a sustainable long-term strategy, why don't we expand self-reffing to cover more serious matches to lessen the need for outside refs? It wouldn't be mandatory by any means and we wouldn't let inexperienced refs/battlers do it, but if 2 long-term users want to do a gym fight without being slowed down by the need for a ref, it could be an option.
With the decline of flavor, reffing's become more and more objective, to the point where aside from RNG rolls and rare instances of rulings disputes, outside refs aren't necessary. It's just a thought.Sample Rules said:
I noticed every elemental monkey, as well as Victreebel, get Gluttony, but they can't use it when using their signature item. Thoughts on adding a minor effect for Gluttony on them?
This one is more biased, but still seemed worth mentioning. Malamar gets screwed way too badly by Swagger when holding it's signature item. Since Malamar is supposed to be all about inverting stat boosts, as far as flavor goes, i thought it would make sense if positive stat changes weren't affected by it's Contrary as long as it holds the item.
Buff culture and etc, thoughts?
This one is more biased, but still seemed worth mentioning. Malamar gets screwed way too badly by Swagger when holding it's signature item. Since Malamar is supposed to be all about inverting stat boosts, as far as flavor goes, i thought it would make sense if positive stat changes weren't affected by it's Contrary as long as it holds the item.
Buff culture and etc, thoughts?
re Fort:
The versatility Frosty is referring to has nothing to do with the versatility that I proposed. The versatility in the base crystals is the ability to link any move as a z-move
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Re SR Expansion:
While I really, really like the idea of expanding the constraints of SRs and expediting battle speed, I'm highly against the proposal for what surprisingly amounts to mostly a flavor perspective and then a little bit of logic. A referee in all applications of the term outside of ASB refers to a third party charged with officiating a process and overseeing it to maintain fairness, and I'd prefer not to remove that aspect from ASB.
From a more practical standpoint: Serious matches, from my perspective, need to maintain that 3rd party overseer simply because its very easy to manipulate rolling, even if they are supposed to be done publicly. Not to mention, you'd be adding additional work to the council/mods/whatever committee because they'd have to actually deal with the complaints. Plus we'd have to actually set in place rules on how people are to ref for this to work, which is just so unnecessary.
Self-reffing belongs in places where refs don't have anything to lose, which is why it currently exists in RPs and flash matches that don't award KOC.
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Re Gluttony + Signature Items:
You know, I've never actually noticed that. I, however, am leaning towards the fact that they shouldn't be on them. Firstly, the stones don't really have much to do with Gluttony. Secondly, there's no good reason to keep adding effects to already good signature items, and it hasn't been shown that those Pokemon are underperforming without it. Sure, you can point to the fact that no one is using them, but there are plenty of things, both items and pokemon, that aren't being used.
====
Re Malamar:
While I agree that Swagger utterly screws Malamar, I also think that just outright giving Malamar to keep positive boosts positive is just overdoing its item. I wouldn't be opposed to a discussion of changing one of its effects out for this protection, but I very much feel that just adding that to the things it has is overkill for no real reason.
The versatility Frosty is referring to has nothing to do with the versatility that I proposed. The versatility in the base crystals is the ability to link any move as a z-move
====
Re SR Expansion:
While I really, really like the idea of expanding the constraints of SRs and expediting battle speed, I'm highly against the proposal for what surprisingly amounts to mostly a flavor perspective and then a little bit of logic. A referee in all applications of the term outside of ASB refers to a third party charged with officiating a process and overseeing it to maintain fairness, and I'd prefer not to remove that aspect from ASB.
From a more practical standpoint: Serious matches, from my perspective, need to maintain that 3rd party overseer simply because its very easy to manipulate rolling, even if they are supposed to be done publicly. Not to mention, you'd be adding additional work to the council/mods/whatever committee because they'd have to actually deal with the complaints. Plus we'd have to actually set in place rules on how people are to ref for this to work, which is just so unnecessary.
Self-reffing belongs in places where refs don't have anything to lose, which is why it currently exists in RPs and flash matches that don't award KOC.
====
Re Gluttony + Signature Items:
You know, I've never actually noticed that. I, however, am leaning towards the fact that they shouldn't be on them. Firstly, the stones don't really have much to do with Gluttony. Secondly, there's no good reason to keep adding effects to already good signature items, and it hasn't been shown that those Pokemon are underperforming without it. Sure, you can point to the fact that no one is using them, but there are plenty of things, both items and pokemon, that aren't being used.
====
Re Malamar:
While I agree that Swagger utterly screws Malamar, I also think that just outright giving Malamar to keep positive boosts positive is just overdoing its item. I wouldn't be opposed to a discussion of changing one of its effects out for this protection, but I very much feel that just adding that to the things it has is overkill for no real reason.
Lol overkill. It is only going to reduce the debuff in a niche, by virtue of its inherent abilities.
Different thing:
"A Pokémon can now endure Future Sight with Endure or Sturdy, in addition to the Focus Sash and Focus Band. Future Sight disappears with no message if it would hit the Pokémon that used the move."
Source: https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Future_Sight_(move)
As such, can we have that piece edited out of Future Sight?
"A Pokémon can now endure Future Sight with Endure or Sturdy, in addition to the Focus Sash and Focus Band. Future Sight disappears with no message if it would hit the Pokémon that used the move."
Source: https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Future_Sight_(move)
As such, can we have that piece edited out of Future Sight?
I 5000% support the above
and yet it is
a sig zcrystal that gives stats instead of a targeted boost is literally giving it more versatility.
It seems like a technically different versatility, but in the end it's still giving the mon the ability to use more options. If you're using a sig z-crystal, it's not because it gives a ton of options lol.
While I agree t
how is giving malamar anything overdoing it ?_?
though I do support just protecting it from swagger (without removing current effects). After all, few (can't think of any off the top of my head) other things can be used to buff your opponent.
http://www.smogon.com/forums/thread...c-vs-examiner-dogfish44.3596784/#post-7285882
can we fix this? thanksies
can we fix this? thanksies
Dive (Move) - Description: The user dives underwater and surfaces under the opponent to attack them. Dive will fail if the arena lacks a body of water.
Water STAB; Ignores arena restrictions on Water attacks that require an external water source. Evasive Diving reduced from 6 per action Energy Cost to 5 per action.
Can we clarify that Dive should be an exception to Water STAB's arena effect? There's no logical or flavorful way to justify how a Water Pokemon can dive when the arena has no water. No Pokemon could create a water source big enough to Dive in, and then dive it in simultaneously. To me, Dive's description implies that Water STAB is ignored, but not everyone agrees.
Water STAB; Ignores arena restrictions on Water attacks that require an external water source. Evasive Diving reduced from 6 per action Energy Cost to 5 per action.
Can we clarify that Dive should be an exception to Water STAB's arena effect? There's no logical or flavorful way to justify how a Water Pokemon can dive when the arena has no water. No Pokemon could create a water source big enough to Dive in, and then dive it in simultaneously. To me, Dive's description implies that Water STAB is ignored, but not everyone agrees.
There's precedent for stuff like that in the Pokemon mystery dungeon games fwiw
Probably a real dumb question but I'm known for dumb questions
Just curious, because every other ability is outside the combo modifier. I don't mind if it works either way just wanna be completely clear
So base on NDA, does this mean Torrent/Blaze/Overgrow/Swarm/Anything-Else-I'm-Missing are included in the Same Move Combo modifier? (i.e Torrent Hydro Pump+Hydro Pump is 14*2.25 AND NOT 11*2.25+3) ?NDA said:
Just curious, because every other ability is outside the combo modifier. I don't mind if it works either way just wanna be completely clear
@ the above
Feels unnecessary and I'd much rather not. Especially on an already mediocre move.
Feels unnecessary and I'd much rather not. Especially on an already mediocre move.
I think all he wanted was a clarification to be added to the description.
or am I misreading
or am I misreading
can we remove the cap on dodge? its unviable as is (as you can tell by the fact nobody ever uses it), but removing the cap would give it a useful niche for some fastmons.
#buffculture
#buffculture
There's been talk on IRC circulating about gym leaders being allowed to run two gyms. I think it's a good idea, provided the following criteria:
I don't want to put too much red tape on this, but I think some ground rules will help keep the quality of gyms up. I hope the benefits of this would be obvious: more open gyms. It also gives another thing for "late-game" ASBers to do. Thoughts?
1) There are less that 18 active gym leaders / applicants at the time. Should more arrive in time, the dual gym leader will step down from one gym.
2) The gym leader in question has been active in the community for three years.
3) The gym leader in question has fought over 20 battles as a gym leader.
4) The gym leader in question is an upstanding member of the community.
5) The proposed second gym offers a significant variety in competition compared to their first gym.
2) The gym leader in question has been active in the community for three years.
3) The gym leader in question has fought over 20 battles as a gym leader.
4) The gym leader in question is an upstanding member of the community.
5) The proposed second gym offers a significant variety in competition compared to their first gym.
I don't want to put too much red tape on this, but I think some ground rules will help keep the quality of gyms up. I hope the benefits of this would be obvious: more open gyms. It also gives another thing for "late-game" ASBers to do. Thoughts?