Vegetarianism

[cookie]

The animal cruelty thread got derailed a couple times by this topic so I thought it'd be appropriate to start a thread to discuss vegetarianism in detail. I'll start off:

People do not need to kill animals in order to survive, but must still exploit animals to do so.

 

[gorm]

Its hard for me to comment on the ethics of eating animals the way we do today (as an industrial rather than hunter/gatherer practise), I mean of course we are omnivores but...

I don't oppose the idea of eating meat, but industrial slaughterhouses/milkfarms are kind of terrifying, and from what ive heard from my friend who wolked in a meatacking factory, pretty gross. when i can afford it i try to support small scale farmers who don't put hormones in their cows to get more milk.
unfortunately the more sustainable stuff is always more expensive.

Pretty much no agricultural practise is sustainable but raising livestock on an industrial level is alot more disturbing, not to mention takes like 10x the land for the same amount of food.

 

[Caterpie]

People have always eaten animals. The first remains of humans were found with spears.. last time I checked, spears weren't for hunting veggies, but hunting for meat.

Sure, we dont go out and hunt anymore but we still are meat eaters (well... we are omnivorous, but still eating meat is natural)

I mean would you rather us go out and hunt the animals ourselves? This would stop us from exploiting them by having them contained in farms, and we would be doing it the natural way (just as other animals do it)



Edit: Ok, it might not have been spears exactly, but they were still found with weapons that were used for hunting.

 

[Vampy34]

Its hard for me to comment on the ethics of eating animals the way we do today (as an industrial rather than hunter/gatherer practise), I mean of course we are omnivores but...

I don't oppose the idea of eating meat, but industrial slaughterhouses/milkfarms are kind of terrifying, and from what ive heard from my friend who wolked in a meatacking factory, pretty gross. when i can afford it i try to support small scale farmers who don't put hormones in their cows to get more milk.
unfortunately the more sustainable stuff is always more expensive.

Pretty much no agricultural practise is sustainable but raising livestock on an industrial level is alot more disturbing, not to mention takes like 10x the land for the same amount of food.

this

 

[CaptKirby]

Yeah, the process is awful, but meat is way too amazingly tasty for me to ever give up. Also, there is no way to be the best athlete you can be without meat!

 

[QuickDraw]

Sure, we dont go out and hunt anymore but we still are meat eaters (well... we are omnivorous, but still eating meat is natural).
I mean would you rather us go out and hunt the animals ourselves? This would stop us from exploiting them by having them contained in farms, and we would be doing it the natural way (just as other animals do it)

i am an avid hunter. anything from big game animals such as deer or elk to migratory waterfowl, even small game like rabbits. hunting is one of the most rewarding activities i partake in. i don't know what it is but luring an animal in with calls and then taking it home to clean and eat gives a great feeling. as far as i can tell you just made up that comment because there are millions of hunters across the united states alone let alone third world countries where meat factories don't exist.

back on topic though, there is no argument for not eating meat. at all. the "unnatural" idea is the worst of all. why would humans have canine teeth and two kinds of incisors if not for eating meat? i do agree that activities in slaughter houses can be incredibly inhumane and should have some stricter laws enforced about the treatment of the animals, alive or dead. religious reasoning is bogus as far as i am concerned but i think religion in itself is a fallacy.

i have no problem with vegetarians at all until they start trying to force their ideals upon me with outrageous instances that have happened once or twice but they make it seem like a constant occurence

 

[gorm]

i do agree that activities in slaughter houses can be incredibly inhumane and should have some stricter laws enforced about the treatment of the animals, alive or dead, but that is not the fault of the facilities themselves, it is the people that work in them.

what o___x

i agree, i wouldn't blame the building either ?__?

 

[Trax]

People have always eaten animals. The first remains of humans were found with spears.. last time I checked, spears weren't for hunting veggies, but hunting for meat.

Some tribes did, some tribes did not.

Besides if you want to use history as justification, just take note that it can be used to justify slavery, dictatorship and the belief the earth is flat.

 

[Mr. Hadwick]

The thing is, we're built to eat meat, we've consumed it since we were monkeys (or whatever you want to call them), and to be at our best, we need it. Sure, vegetarians have their supplements and soy, but I don't think it really compairs. I'm not a nutrition speacialist, so it's really just my opinion.

P.S. If you stop eating meat, little vaginas grow all over you

 

[QuickDraw]

what o___x

i agree, i wouldn't blame the building either ?__?

psh i meant the corporations that own slaughterhouses and meat packing warehouses. i guess it all starts from the top though... i think i will revise that statement

 

[Ambitions]

The thing is, we're built to eat meat, we've consumed it since we were monkeys (or whatever you want to call them), and to be at our best, we need it. Sure, vegetarians have their supplements and soy, but I don't think it really compairs. I'm not a nutrition speacialist, so it's really just my opinion.

This argument isn't really valid since there is nothing natural about the way humans consume factory farm meat.

You can find nutrition facts all over the intent really. The Food Revolution is a great place to start if you have time to read a book.

 

[QuickDraw]

the argument isn't the question of whether eating meat from a factory is natural or not. its about whether eating meat is natural at all and it was clearly a natural occurrence among man's ancestors. if you can show me a civilization of early man that only consumed plant life and flourished i would be very surprised.

 

[xcfrisco]

Do vegetarians and vegans find meat eating wrong because of the violence associated with it?

 

[Mr. Hadwick]

Nutritional science is a really sketchy science, it's too young to invest much trust in yet.

And I was basing my post on the more primal meat, not the drugged up cows people normally eat, I know that the OP was talking about that, but I was refering to all vegetarians.

 

[infernal-dragon]

The problem is there are so many humans that to support everybody, there must be a huge amount of farm animals. Farm animals cause global warming by the massive amounts of gas they burp/fart. They also use a ton of land, driving natural species away from their homes. The only ways to solve these problems is to either make everyone a vegetarian, or reduce human population (like 1-child rule in China).

 

[Mr. Hadwick]

There is one more option, although its completely beyond us at the moment, to relocate, find another place that can support us and move some of our population there. Unfortunately this probably won't become viable for generations, and may not happen at all. Not to mention the morality problem of dominating a world. Sorry if this is off topic, just ignore this if you don't care.

 

[QuickDraw]

The problem is there are so many humans that to support everybody, there must be a huge amount of farm animals. Farm animals cause global warming by the massive amounts of gas they burp/fart. They also use a ton of land, driving natural species away from their homes. The only ways to solve these problems is to either make everyone a vegetarian, or reduce human population (like 1-child rule in China).

are you joking? where did you get this information? it would take much more land to support a population on plants alone which in turn would drive many more species away from their natural habitats. have you ever thought about the amount of small animals that lose their homes, or worse, their lives to the collection of grains? on a slightly different topic i find it extremely odd that vegetarians buy veggieburgers that taste like the burgers with meat sane people eat. to steal a quote from maddox

"I can't eat meat." The four worst words to hear when you're going to a restuarant with someone. I literally cringe every time I hear those words because I know it means that we have to drive around the city for 2 hours looking for some restuarant that serves "friendly" burgers, which ironically look and taste exactly like hamburgers--which vegetarians object to eating because it's either A) gross or B) murder. If it's so gross, then why go out of your way to eat something exactly like it, asshole? It's funny how vegetarians suddenly stop bitching about murder as soon as you point out their fancy leather belt or shoes, or that they drive a car and use electricity which contributes to polluting the earth and contaminating everything including the precious animals that they refuse to eat.

 

[Ambitions]

Do vegetarians and vegans find meat eating wrong because of the violence associated with it?

Xcfrisco, alot of vegetarians and vegans give up meat because of the way animals are treated, but not all of them do it for that reason.

I became vegetarian because of the way animals are treated, but went vegan for my health, and mainly, for the environment.

 

[Tinnacious]

Yeah, the process is awful, but meat is way too amazingly tasty for me to ever give up. Also, there is no way to be the best athlete you can be without meat!

Wrong. The best three members of my old high school including the captain are all vegans. We get first in county and states, no thanks to meat. Also, ever heard of Steve Holt? The vegetarian bodybuilder?

You can be the best anything with the right diet, vegetarianism/vegan-ism is in no way limiting, just different. If you're feeling weak, chances are, you're not eating right in terms of vegetarianism/vegan-ism. Most new vegetarians/vegans always think of the all the food they will be missing, but never the numerous new things open to them.

 

[TUskate]

Yeah, the process is awful, but meat is way too amazingly tasty for me to ever give up. Also, there is no way to be the best athlete you can be without meat!

steven seagal is on his way to your house right now. don't even bother running.

 

[Ambitions]

You know those guys in the Olympics that lift like 350 lb above there own heads, alot of them are vegan. Meat protein is to fatty, so the consume alot of soy protein to help beef up.

Steven Segal is a vegetarian. Nuff said.

 

[akuchi]

I [pretty much] won't ever eat animals that aren't organic, I try and eat locally sourced stuff from animals who were happy before they died and I really won't eat factory farmed food if I can help it.

I occasionally try my hand at vegetarianism [mostly for weight loss reasons] and whilst it's not bad, I can't live without calamari and sunday roast!

p.s. V is for Vespa - I know quite a few really, really strict vegetarians and even stricter vegans and all of them really don't like the idea of eating something that's supposed to look like meat - they think along the same lines as you.

 

[QuickDraw]

the only problem i have with veganism is taking supplements in order to get the nutrients you are missing from meats and other products that they stay away from. i'm extremely biased though since i love everything meat. i don't think i have found an animal that isn't tasty (aside from scavengers and predators, bear is pretty good though because it is really fatty) with some creative cooking that still brings out the flavor of the meat.

vegetarian/ veganism also takes waay too much effort... why would i want to figure out what gives me the same nutrients as a slab of steak when i can just go kill a cow and grill it up right there? or if you aren't man enough to slaughter your own cow (or someone else's :D) buy a nice steak from the supermarket. i am all for conservation of energy, especially when it comes to me, i am a good energy conserver.

 

[Ambitions]

are you joking? where did you get this information? it would take much more land to support a population on plants alone which in turn would drive many more species away from their natural habitats. have you ever thought about the amount of small animals that lose their homes, or worse, their lives to the collection of grains? on a slightly different topic i find it extremely odd that vegetarians buy veggieburgers that taste like the burgers with meat sane people eat. to steal a quote from maddox

I posted this info in another thread but I mind as well post it here too.
I did a term paper on this, if you want sources ill give em to you, but I can tell you they include the National Cattlemens Association

It takes 2495 gallons of water to produce 1 lb of meat
It takes 3 acres to produce 1 lb of meat

1 acre yields 30-50 bushels of wheat (60lb a bushle)
24.6 gallons of water yield 1 lb of wheat

The number one cause for deforestation is to make room for cattle to live before slaughter.

The number one cause of methane in the air is animal farts.

 

[xcfrisco]

Xcfrisco, alot of vegetarians and vegans give up meat because of the way animals are treated, but not all of them do it for that reason.

I became vegetarian because of the way animals are treated, but went vegan for my health, and mainly, for the environment.

Interesting, I never knew people did it for the health benefits, i thought it was always for a righteous cause.