We are nearing the finish line! This poll will decide conclusively which moves Tomohawk will and won't be able to use. For a summary of the differences between the movepool submissions, you may refer to this spreadsheet: https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?...thkey=CL2G8ZsP
This will be a Bold Vote poll, meaning you may vote for one, and only one, submission. The options for this poll are capefeather, Jibaku and Korski.
Originally Posted by Fat capefeather
*bursts in with an epic Final Submission*
* - Move is repeated in this or a previous list
. - Move is (almost) required by a different move
! - Move is (almost) required by typing or ability
!! - Move is absolutely required by typing or ability Bold - A VGM that is not repeated in this or a previous list
I've taken quite a few creative liberties with the level-up movepool. This CAP is really breaking a lot of ground because it's primary Flying and a Fighting-type with a poor Atk stat. I've always wanted to do a "mage" type learnset, and the shamanistic nature of this CAP has given me the perfect excuse to do so (though my original dream was to reference FF1's Chaos :P ). The "elemental" moves here are Rain Dance, Earth Power, Air Slash and Heat Wave, with Hurricane eventually learned near the end as well.
This learnset is full of sneaky references, which is why I've filled it to the maximum reasonable number of moves. I've incorporated a few of the North American aboriginal creation stories involving the raven (the raven is originally white in Haida myths). It references a myth about the raven stealing the sun, moon, stars (Sunny Day), a firebrand (Heat Wave, I guess), and fresh water (Rain Dance) to give to the mortal world. Sky Drop is somewhat a reference to another myth involving the raven dropping a stone into the ocean to form land. There's also a legend about a seagull and the raven sticking a thorn into its foot, but Spikes is disallowed, so... Aerial Ace and Submission are also here to reference the Street Fighter character T. Hawk. (The anime depicts Aerial Ace as a low-altitude gliding attack, and Submission is similar to the grapple that T. Hawk does.)
The progression is simple enough. I believe that Tomohawk should start off with a "base" special move (Aura Sphere) because it's one of only three special Fighting-type moves. The theme here is that it starts off using naive physical attacks like Fury Swipes and then eventually learns to channel the energies of the spirits and use them. Harden is a reference to Cartoons's original concept, with the fur hardening to act like feathers. I also need a move to fit with Tomohawk's name, a reference to a light axe that is thrown. Giga Impact doesn't quite fit, so Superpower has made it in. Finally, I feel that Tomohawk should get some kind of mind-refresh before getting Hurricane, but Amnesia is banned, so Rest is there instead.
Healing Wish is a cool move IMO; it's kind of a reference to FF6's Sabin (not that anyone used Spiraler or whatever it's called now), but more than that, it just fits somehow with the whole shaman / chieftain deal that this CAP is getting.
Most of these are type-move and move-move (almost) requirements. I want to avoid putting in too many Psychic-type moves because I don't think that they fit with the concept (though Reflect is there). Thief is another reference to the trickster aspect mentioned earlier, and a stronger reference to the firebrand is made through Incinerate and Flash. However, despite other Fire-type moves usually being required with Heat Wave, I've chosen not to put them in because I'm already breaking the Fire-type monopoly on level-up Heat Wave.
I also don't have Cut because Tomohawk is an "axe", not a sword (Cut is "Iai Cut", a reference to a sword technique) and this movepool has no claw moves other than Fury Swipes.
Also known as the level-up rejects, honestly. Most of these are competitive moves that I really wanted on Tomohawk but couldn't fit into level-up or the machines. You may in particular notice my inclusion of Rapid Spin. Sorry, Delibird :( I think that this is a potentially great move for Tomohawk, and I'd personally like to see what Tomohawk can do with it. Will it be devastatingly effective like Excadrill, or will it be kind of lame like Forretress?
I've put Roost into the egg movepool because Tomohawk isn't really a bird (yeah, "Feather Rest", but still). But it still breeds with birds...? -.- Best not to think about it.
Total unique moves: 66
Total VGMs: 38
Some general comments
I'll admit that my movepool is mostly based on flavour, but the competitive theme here is a small but precise non-attacking movepool. I didn't put in every non-attacking move that "seems interesting" because there are way too many of them and a lot of the good ones are level-up/egg only. Let's be honest, here: Do we really need a super-bloated non-attacking movepool?
I've made an explicit effort to limit or outright avoid moves of the following categories:
Psychic-type (e.g. no Psych Up or Gravity)
Poison-type (e.g. no Sludge Wave)
Moves that modify anything other than Atk or Def (e.g. no Hone Claws)
Moves that can disrupt move choice (e.g. no Torment/Disable/Switcheroo)
Physical moves (all of the physical moves in this pool are justified by flavour or move-move guidelines)
I absolutely do not believe that most Psychic- or Poison-type moves make any sense on Tomohawk. In my view, Tomohawk should be using the powers of nature, not supernatural mind tricks or waves of garbage. (I don't quite get other people's justification of Mimic, either. Tomohawk is using a disguise, not copying others' actions.) I also want Tomohawk's Hurricane to get support entirely from rain or another Pokémon's Gravity, and not set it up for itself (other than with Rain Dance). I also find choice-disrupting moves potentially broken with this CAP, so I have excluded them. The movepool still does have some gems like bulky Substitute, Healing Wish, Memento, Roost and Yawn (arguably better than sleep if the opponent stays in).
You may have noticed that Baton Pass is this movepool's only switching move. Screw Volt Switch -.- Only Electric-types and Steel-types learn it. It doesn't make sense! Baton Pass is clearly the most effective switching move to include here, so that's what I have done.
I've also completely ignored move-move guidelines for Stealth Rock and Heat Wave. The main justification for this is that Tomohawk is not a Rock-type (or mainly rock-dwelling creature) or a Fire-type, so I'm violating "canon" a bit anyway by including these moves. I really didn't want to have to put in stuff like Sandstorm (doesn't make much sense to me) or Flame Charge (disallowed).
Total VGMs (6):
Total Unique Moves: 16
With Repeats: 18
Pre evo exclusive moves: (VGM: 2, Total Moves: 3) Hyper Voice Encore
Flavor Reasoning: Okay let's just say I got a bit lazy here and didn't do a lot of research on shamans/gryphons/griffins/cats so I decided to go by instinct. The first move I placed here is Hurricane. You may consider this an extremely odd choice, considering that Hurricane is often the last move on many Pokemon. However, I think it is nice to twist this around a bit. Pokemon such as Scolipede, Torterra, and Regis (in 3rd gen), learn an extremely powerful attack at Lv--- (Megahorn, Wood Hammer, Explosion, respectively). Since I want to emphasize on the Flying primary, it's great to start off with a flying move.
Quick Attack was thrown in for not much reason but to be a starting move really. Tail Whip, Mimic (hello faux griffin), and Follow Me are basically for cute stuff. Follow Me here represents two things: Tomohawk's leadership role, and its pre evo's alluring charm. Leveling up further, it begins learning how to fight and gets Double Kick. Next step up is nature appreciation. Living in harmony, "Minihawk"'s curiosity of the surrounding environment gave it the ability to use Nature Power. "Minihawk"'s training against each other eventually got them to learn Quick Guard to shield against moves such as Quick Attack.
Assist, or in Japanese, "cat's paw", helps emphasize the cat-like nature of Minihawk and Tomohawk. Minihawk has learned to borrow from more than just nature, but also it's teammates. Imprison is a neat trick it has up its sleeve. With Mimic around, it can disable one of the opponents moves - something it likes to do as a prankster. I don't have a lot of reason for Slash really but hey let's give it some claw-ish move.
Lv. 36 is evolution time! Immediately upon evolving, Tomohawk learns Roost. This symbolizes a relief from its training as a "Minihawk", and a time to reflect on what is coming up. Three levels later, it masters Air Slash to celebrate its newfound ability to control the air. Then Tailwind.
Mirror Move in Japanese is "Parrot Mimicry", which I think works better on Tomohawk than Minihawk. Given Tomohawk's bird costume, I'd say it's pretty good at mimicking.
Aura Sphere is the final stage of its training. Connecting its spiritual self and the outside world, it lets loose its inner life force in the form of a guided bomb.
Yeah it's a long and boring-ish story but I hope it didn't put people to sleep
Egg Group: Flying / Ground (I hate illegalities)
(Assume they all come from Smeargle) VGM: 11, Total: 12 Close Combat Haze Perish Song
Sing Baton Pass Yawn Whirlwind Healing Wish Vacuum Wave Stealth Rock Wish
Flavor Reasoning: Considering that the primary typing for "Minihawk" is Normal, I decided that Flying/Ground represents this well. Ground in particular represents the ascension of the Pokemon. From the earth it is born, and to where it can eventually fly.
Oh and I hate illegalities.
You may notice that a lot of VGMs are stuffed here. There is one reason for this and it is to portray the griffin's immense dedication towards its partner. A griffin will not remarry if its partner died. In reward for its dedication with its partner, it learns more than an average Pokemon could, and passes down the knowledge to its offspring to celebrate "the best they can do in this marriage".
Okay this will be my Final Submission for Tomohawk's complete movepool:
Level-Up Moves (14 unique, 16 total w/ 3 repeats)
H. Morning Sun
H. Rapid Spin
H. Aura Sphere
-- Fury Swipes
20. Quick Guard
36. Sunny Day
45. Air Slash
VGMs (7): Air Slash
Morning Sun Rapid Spin
Despite being a grounded Pokemon, PreCAP have long held an unexplainable instinctual fascination with the sun and the skies above Unova. Researchers have documented packs of PreCAP Roaring (or just Growling, in the case of the young ones) in unison at the sun, much like how Houndoom eerily Howl at the moon. PreCAP are nomadic and travel in packs, although they can be most reliably found during the Summer along Route 7 (lvl. 27-29) because of its proximity to the Celestial Tower, which they roam around for unknown reasons. A common sight around the Tower is to see several PreCAP wander in and get chased out by wild Elgyem. The cause of this antagonism is unknown, although rumors circulate around nearby Mistralton City that a PreCAP once made it to the top of the Tower and disappeared, and that soon after that, more and more PreCAP packs started roaming around the area and hassling the Elgyem with their tresspassing. The rumor continues that Mistralton City gym leader Skyla periodically climbs the Tower to meet with a "strange flying Pokemon," claiming to have seen a sick Pokemon atop it. City dwellers note that the Pokemon in question always seem to Fly off before anyone else can get a chance to see them, although these are just rumors.
As you can see, not much is known about the PreCAP that roam around Unova beyond their fascination with the sun. They are a very finicky and mischievous Pokemon and are very wary of human interaction, thus making direct study extremely difficult. Whenever a pack is approached, the elder pack members will attack with their sharp claws and teeth (Fury Swipes, Bite, Crunch) to protect their young and disorient attackers for a full-pack retreat (Quick Guard, Roar). Their pack-style battle and escape techniques are so effective that no PreCAP have actually ever been caught by a trainer!
In the very, very rare occurrence where a wild PreCAP evolves into Tomohawk, its enormous growth of plumage-like fur makes it unrecognizable to its pack. This, coupled with Tomohawk’s increased power and ability for flight, causes it to split off from its pack to live on its own and explore the skies it spent its life dreaming of. With no pack to defend after evolving, Tomohawk begins learning moves that explore its own newfound abilities and aid it in fending for itself across the Unova skies.
The evolution method specified here is that PreCAP evolves into Tomohawk when it levels up while knowing the move Sunny Day, which it and, presumably, the "PreCAP" learn at Level 36. Since wild PreCAP are found in the game at Lvls. 27-29, it can be derived from the flavor story that the PreCAP that made it to the top of the Celestial Tower leveled up enough along the way to learn Sunny Day (maybe from being so close to the sun?) and level up again, causing it to evolve, a secret only Mistralton City Gym Leader Skyla seems to be privy to. This gives Tomohawk that sort of "mythical" feeling of being rare, unique, and unknown that comes along with the mock-griffon design. If you play the cartridge game, you'll maybe recognize that you can get a hold of TM11 - Sunny Day in Mistralton City, a city defined by flight, including the Pokemon world’s only airport and gym leader Skyla's specialty in Flying-type Pokemon, so everything sort of ties together in that regard.
The movepool progression reflects the way this CAP goes through life. Moves that come before Sunny Day are moves one could expect a wild animal in a pack setting to need to learn: various attacks, intimidation tactics, "working together" moves, etc. The movepool as a whole is very physical because of this, which wild Pokemon can appreciate just fine but a trainer might find to be a little less than ideal. Fortunately, Tomohawk learns two useful attacks (Air Slash, Hurricane) and a non-damaging move (Roost) on its own and can learn an incredibly useful and challenging Heart Scale move (Aura Sphere; again, in Mistralton City), along with the flavorful Morning Sun to reinforce Tomohawk's connection to the sun and Rapid Spin (imagined to be an aerial technique in this instance).
Competitively, the Level-Up list offers Air Slash, Aura Sphere, and Roost, assuredly three of its most important moves, and Rapid Spin and Hurricane, useful moves on more targeted sets. Putting these in the Level-Up movepool means absolutely no complications; these moves can be used whenever and however a player wants. The reason for Rapid Spin here is thus: with Rapid Spin and Stealth Rock (Egg Moves) at its disposal, Tomohawk has the potential to control a good amount of the entry hazard side of a particular match. I know Stealth Rock isn't as dominant this gen., but Spikes are pretty common and being able to consistently clear your side of the field of the opponents' entry hazards is one of the best ways to keep opposing teams from executing their strategies. I do want to mention another move here, as well, and that move is Entrainment. I included Entrainment in the list not just for flavor (training younger pack members with a ritualistic dance is delicious), but also to give Tomohawk a powerful weapon in doubles/triples battles, that is, the power to share its Prankster ability with its teammates (doesn't work on Truant or Multitype, though). This move alone could create entire team strategies in CAP doubles/triples, which would be a great way to explore that particular infant metagame.
Facade Focus Blast
Frustration / Return Grass Knot
Rain Dance Reflect
Rock Slide Substitute
This is always the least interesting part. This is where Tomohawk is getting most of its physical movepool along with a few key non-damaging moves like Substitute, U-turn, and Taunt, amongst others. Look here, too, for Tomohawk's first peek at special coverage moves in Grass Knot and Hidden Power, as well as its second high-BP STAB move in Focus Blast.
The Egg movepool is a pretty neat bag of tricks. The main competitive ones here are Baton Pass (for Substitutes, Work Up, and Bulk Up), Heat Wave (for limited coverage, plausible use in doubles/triples), Stealth Rock, Wish (for a more team-oriented kind of healing when compared to Roost, with 207 HP Wishes), and Yawn (for status outside of Toxic and in case you accidentally let something stat up on you too much). Finally, Hyper Voice is here for the Little Cuppers, as is Double-edge (which can still do good damage in LC off a lower Atk stat) while the rest is all mishmash. After You takes a second conscious dip into the foray of doubles/triples battles and offers a slight tweak on Entrainment by allowing a teammate to attack first the next turn as opposed to simply gaining the Prankster boost to non-attacking moves.
Flavor-wise, none of the egg moves necessarily "demand" a Flying typing, since the PreCAP is not of the Flying type (and thus would look strange using things like Roost or Brave Bird), despite some of the moves being Flying-type themselves (Defog, Mirror Move, Whirlwind). Most of them are simply Normal-type moves (thank you, Togekiss) that have certain utility or niche flavor.
Special Attacks (8):
Non-damaging Moves (18):
Okay so as you can see this is a pretty straightforward movepool from a competitive angle, foregoing an influx of gimmick options in exchange for a wider breadth of options and nuance in each particular set. You'll notice Phazing in Roar/Whirlwind, four (yes, four) unique forms of healing in Morning Sun, Rest, Roost, and Wish, Toxic and Yawn for your status of choice, and a few established gems like Taunt, Substitute, U-turn, Stealth Rock, Rapid Spin, and Baton Pass, amongst others. The attacking movepool is just what the doctor ordered in terms of special attacks, where there exists the low-power/accurate vs. high power/inaccurate duality with Hawk's STAB attacks as well as a couple niche coverage moves in Heat Wave, Grass Knot, and Hidden Power. Overall, I feel it's a pretty focused movepool that still offers plenty of options.
Sunny Day + Morning Sun, Rain Dance + Hurricane: As a mythical creature devoted to the skies, surely it can develop skills to manipulate and take advantage of the weather! For the two types of weather Tomohawk is capable of starting, it has a corresponding Level-Up move to take advantage of it.
Substitute + Baton Pass: priority Baton Passing is an incredible way to maintain momentum, and allowing a teammate to come in for free while the opponent is forced to attack to break your Sub instead of setting up is an even better way to maintain momentum. With self-healing in the way of Roost (or even Wish) and some plausible attacks, this could be a very viable set.
Wish + Protect/U-turn/Baton Pass: Tomohawk has no reason not to become a great Wish passer with Prankster's priority or Intimidate's switch-causing abilities. Even better, Prankster Baton Pass and U-turn let you choose between a fast or slow switch, allowing you to choose who takes the hit, Hawk or its teammate.
Toxic/Stealth Rock + Taunt: With priority and recovery, Tomohawk could be a very effective Toxic staller or a consistent Stealth Rock layer.
Stealth Rock + Rapid Spin: Control who gets entry hazards and who doesn't. Tomohawk's going to be having a tough time with Ghosts anyways and running SR/Spin/Grass Knot for Jellicent really limits Hawk's effectiveness in most ways. SR/Spin/Toxic? That may work; we'll just have to see. Also, being immune to Spikes while being able to Spin them away is a brand new element to competitive Pokemon, which is cool.
Yawn + Roar: Do you like Phazing? This potent duo could satisfy you, or at least put something to sleep based purely on the opponent's frustration. Watch out for Gliscor, though (HP-Ice, maybe?)
Notable "No"s :(
Notable "No"s :(
Brave Bird/Drill Peck: These were purely flavor considerations. Despite its name, Tomohawk isn't a bird, it’s a griffon, and it doesn’t have a beak to peck with.
Close Combat/Hammer Arm/Superpower/Drain Punch: I hope I don’t get berated too hard for not including these. I felt I could go easy on the "big" Fighting-type moves since Hawk won’t be using them and Fighting is the secondary typing, meaning it warrants less flavor considerations. If the Pre-evo would appreciate these moves, Pre-evo movepool submitters are more than welcome to put them in its movepool, especially in place of the Flying moves Hawk gets after it evolves.
Earth Power/Psychic/Psyshock: largely irrelevant Special attacks.
Flamethrower/Fire Blast: Heat Wave > these moves, imo, especially considering flavor. If you want to go offensive with this thing and run a non-HP Fire move, you'll have to deal with the lower accuracy.
Icy Wind: I originally had it in here, but I really do think it messes too many of Hawk's supposed counters with it and it's pretty weak otherwise. After some long, hard, pondering, I've taken it out.
Super Fang: "Meh." Yes, this could be a good tool against stall and along with stall; however this movepool offers both Taunt and Rapid Spin so there shouldn’t be too many problems there.
Volt Switch: Personal preference here, mainly. If you want to switch out without actually switching, I'm offering U-turn and Baton Pass, as both have no immunities. Volt Switch does what HP-Electric should be doing but without locking you into a Hidden Power and doing it better anyway, except against Ground types, in which case you've lost a turn.
Aromatherapy/Heal Bell/Refresh: Status seems to be a pretty good way of taking Tomohawk down and there are better clerics out there, so I took a pass here.
Circle Throw/Dragon Tail: I figure Tomohawk can Phaze well enough without doing negligible damage. Taunt should be hindering Tomohawk, so I kept these moves out.
Clear Smog/Haze: Tomohawk has a lot better things to do. If you’ve let Salamence get up too many DDs, use priority Yawn and sack your Tomohawk, since you messed up (or use Intimidate Tomohawk + HP-Ice).
Confuse Ray: Relies too much on chance for the concept at hand.
Counter/Mirror Coat/Gravity/Magic Coat/Block/Mean Look/Perish Song/Psycho Shift: These moves are too situationally useful for me to prioritize. As such, they fell by the wayside. Out of these, I think Perish Song would be the most useful, but I opted for Yawn instead as it has a faster effect rate.
Curse/Hone Claws: Boosting moves that are both outclassed by Bulk Up and Work Up, respectively.
Encore: This one was kind of a struggle, but I ended up not including it because of Whimsicott. The very fact that Whimsicott, with its awful defenses, can be as annoying as it is thanks to Encore is why I think that something with much better stats and typing would be a little over-the-top with the same move.
Healing Wish/Memento: Self-KO moves are very situationally useful, but as a one-time-only thing and at such great cost, I don’t think they’re worth it. These things can go wrong in so many ways it there's no way it could be wanted over Hawk's other moves. I'd rather not encourage such reckless, likely gimmicky behavior. Sorry.
Ingrain/Recover et. al.: I suppressed the movepool to include only four unique forms of recovery, so more would be worthless. Ingrain makes no flavor sense whatsoever.
Knock Off: I wanted this move in the movepool; however, I didn’t want to overloead Tomohawk with weird, situational options. Basically, I believe Knock Off is a good move, just not on this particular Poke.
This poll will close in 24 hours. Choose wisely!
Apr 10th, 2011 7:45:06 PM
Apr 10th, 2011 7:45:59 PM
Apr 10th, 2011 7:56:44 PM
Apr 10th, 2011 7:59:23 PM
Apr 10th, 2011 8:11:31 PM
Apr 10th, 2011 8:12:14 PM
Apr 10th, 2011 8:33:07 PM
Apr 10th, 2011 8:33:32 PM
Apr 10th, 2011 8:35:56 PM
Apr 10th, 2011 8:53:39 PM
Apr 10th, 2011 8:53:39 PM
Would have liked to see a hurricane-free movepool make it, but oh well. I think capefeather's is pretty much perfect otherwise.