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[on site] The guide to D/P Uber Battling
THIS INFORMATION MIGHT BE OUTDATED - http://www.smogon.com/dp/articles/uber_battling <-- this is the version on the site
A guide by me and Great Sage. If you feel anything needs to be fixed, please post or PM us INTRODUCTION TO UBERS The uber metagame is almost a forgotten metagame, the main reason being that everyone plays the Overused metagame (OU), and the fact that some other people even think that Ubers take no skill to use. However, they are wrong. Uber matches are full of strategy. They pack more power and movepool than many OU pokemon, making the Uber metagame quite unbalanced; this is how, when and where strategy, prediction and critical thinking shine the most. One wrong move can destroy its user if one is not careful. This guide will hopefully help one pick Pokemon and their individual aspects (EVs, moves, etc.) that will thrive in the Uber metagame. Which Pokemon are Ubers? The following Pokémon are classified as Ubers: Mewtwo, Mew, Wobbuffet, Lugia, Ho-oh, Latias, Latios, Kyogre, Groudon, Rayquaza, Deoxys, Deoxys-A, Deoxys-D, Deoxys-S, Palkia, Dialga, Giratina, Manaphy, Darkrai and Arceus Why are they Ubers? They are the Pokémon that are considered too powerful for a balanced Standard (also known as Overused, or OU) metagame. Ubers tend to have very high stats and larger movepools compared to most other Pokemon. This results in their being extremely difficult or impossible to counter within the normal limits of the Standard metagame. Why Wobbuffet? One may ask why Wobbuffet is Uber; its stats besides Hit Points are very low, and its movepool consists of a meager seven moves (eight counting the promotional Tickle). However, it is known as the ultimate set up pokemon, and it is classified as an Uber purely because it has a trait - Shadow Tag - that traps all Pokémon that are not holding a Shed Shell or have the move U-Turn or Baton Pass. Wobbuffet's titanic HP lets him use his moves - Counter, Mirror Coat, and most importantly, Encore - to great success. His ability to set up sweepers such as Rayquaza and Arceus with a deadly combination of Encore and Shadow Tag is definitely not something that players should overlook. In Advance, 386 play, or the 3rd generation as many call it, 2 Wobbuffets facing each other would cause an extremely long and mindbendingly boring stallwar due to their mutual inability to switch out, thus causing them to try and slap around each other for no damage until they Struggle, which will never finish thanks to the recovery they receive from the item Leftovers. However, this problem has been fixed in Diamond/Pearl. Two Pokemon with Shadow Tag will be able to escape out of each other, and thus preventing this dreadfully boring battle of willpower. This, however, is not a reason why Wobbuffet is not Uber, as it can trap anything else and force either a knockout or a free turn with Encore. If Wobbuffet Encored a damaging attack, the opposition would be promptly destroyed, and if it Encored a setup move, Wobbuffet's user would almost be guaranteed a free turn to switch to another Pokemon and set up. What makes a team Uber? Any number of Ubers on one's team automatically makes one's team an Uber team. If one has just one Uber on one's team, one's team is Uber. There are no exceptions. KNOW THE UBERS The Pokémon will be organized into groups for effectiveness. The Uber Walls
Playing Ubers often requires a completely different mindset than playing in Standards. Many strategies that were effective in Standards become completely useless, while tactics that were shunned in Standards sometimes become very effective in Ubers. The Specials Rule Ubers In Standards, many of the strongest attackers are physically based; in Ubers, the reverse is true. Much of the Uber metagame is concentrated in Special Attack and Special Defense, as those two stats run into astronomical levels with quite a few Ubers; most Ubers have comparatively low Attack and Defense values, however. This can be exploited by using heavy physical attackers such as Groudon and Metagross; such Pokemon should be handled with care, however, as physical attackers tend to have comparatively low Special Defense and therefore are vulnerable to the powerful special attacks that run rampant in Ubers. Maximizing Moves In Standards, it is generally advised to take advantage of a Pokemon’s STAB moves unless the Pokemon was of the Poison type and had better options, as Poison has terrible type coverage. In Ubers, however, type coverage is often more important than STAB, and most Pokemon, regardless of type, tend to use Dragon, Electric, Ice, Dark, and Ghost type attacks. Even though many of the Ubers are Psychic type, they seldom use Psychic type moves for the very fact that many of the Ubers are Psychic. Mewtwo, for example, can deliver more damage with Ice Beam than Psychic to almost every Uber and non-Uber usable in the metagame; this is due both to the fact that the many Psychic type Pokemon of Ubers resist Psychic and that the not-as-many-but-still-common Dragon type Pokemon are weak to Ice. In fact, the only Ubers that Psychic hits harder than Ice Beam are Ho-oh, Kyogre, Palkia, and some rare variations of Arceus. Dragon, Ice, and Dark attacks can usually be used alone to much success. Darkrai sometimes relies exclusively on its Dark STAB, and Mewtwo on Ice Beam. However, Electric and Ghost types almost never constitute single-type-attack movesets, for some Pokemon are completely immune to their assaults, making any significant setup for nothing. Moreover, Pokemon that boast said immunity are free to use one turn to set up as they wish; in the extremely fast-paced environment of Ubers, one turn of setup frequently proves fatal to the opposition. Instead, Pokemon that choose to use Electric or Ghost type attacks elect to add an attack of another type to their movesets. Pokemon with an Electric attack often pair up with an Ice attack, and Pokemon with a Ghost type attack do the same with Fighting attacks; the purpose of such pairings are to maximize a specific moveset’s type coverage. Similarly, there are combinations of moves that do not have ample type coverage and are therefore discouraged. For example, a Pokemon almost never has both a Dragon and an Ice type attack on a single moveset, for both types together are redundant in that both are super effective against Dragon types and not very effective against Steel types. This is one instance where STAB does come into play; the general advice is that the Dragon attack be used if it receives STAB, and the Ice attack be used otherwise. Almost all Ubers are capable of increasing their in-battle stats through moves such as Calm Mind and Swords Dance, and it would do one well to take advantage of such boosting moves. One would think that with the enormous number of stat boosters, phazers would be in high demand. That is a logical but unfortunately incorrect assumption; Uber stats can become numbers that reach far into the thousands, a level that phazers would be hard pressed to contend with. Instead, Ubers relies on having a solid, durable counter that can -do- something to the Pokemon it wants to counter (such as Giratina using Will-o-Wisp on Groudon to smash its physical potential), destroying the opponent before it has the time to set up, or occasionally even a race to see which Uber can raise its stats most in the least amount of time. The Lead Pokemon As with any metagame, Ubers is impacted by the Pokemon one leads with. Most good Uber leads fall in at least one of the following categories: immediate damage, anti-lead, and/or weather. It is always good to lead with a Pokemon that can cause immediate and severe damage without the need to set up with a stat boosting move. Choice Specs Mewtwo is but one such Pokemon; Choice Specs boosts its already impressive Special Attack to even larger levels, and as Choice Specs allows for 4 move choices, its moveset will likely be able to rend anything in the game to pieces in one way or another. Dialga is the prime example of an anti-lead. It can take on Kyogre and Palkia reasonably, which is important because Kyogre is popular as a lead for two reasons (immediate damage and weather), and Palkia is able to inflict bad damage to well near everything. Additionally, Dialga may even be able to set up Trick Room, a highly unexpected but potentially dangerous tactic in Ubers. Only two Pokemon truly fit into the “weather” lead category: Groudon and Kyogre. Tyranitar, Hippowdon and Abomasnow can stir up weather, too, but Tyranitar matches up poorly against popular leads such as Kyogre, and the latter two are not fit for competition in Ubers. There are some Pokemon that become extremely powerful based on the weather, and the weather leads attempt to establish the correct weather as soon as possible. Beneficiaries from weather leads include Palkia and Manaphy, which enjoy the rain, and Heatran and Tangrowth, who like the sun. Although it may be tempting to lead with a wall, it is highly discouraged because of several reasons. Walls should react to certain threats, and as they can usually take a good amount of damage, it is not necessary to meet the Pokemon it wants to wall straight up. Additionally, walls are predictable and the easiest of setup fodders for the opponent to take advantage of if he or she leads with a Pokemon different from the type said wall is geared to handle. As if that were not enough, almost everything in the Uber metagame is capable of bypassing its potential walls; for example, Blissey can take Kyogre’s special attacks, but abhors Waterfall, which leading Choice Scarf Kyogres often carry. Prediction In Ubers, it can be incredibly difficult to respond to a threat that has already switched in; for example, there is almost nothing a Palkia can’t hurt. This is where prediction comes in handy to make it difficult for said threats to switch in. For example, a Blissey is an excellent opportunity for a Metagross to switch in, especially if said Blissey is walling a Choice Specs Dialga and unlikely to switch out. However, an intelligent Blissey user may decide to switch to a Palkia, who can easily Surf the incoming Metagross back to the scrap heap. Assuming that the Dialga had used Overheat, it is plain that it would switch out due to the severe Special Attack drop Overheat slams it with, and said Palkia could switch in with minimal risk to itself. Even if the Dialga user predicts Palkia, Overheat wouldn’t do over 10% damage thanks to Palkia’s 4x Fire resistance and Overheat’s Special Attack drop. However, if the Dialga had used Dragon Pulse, and Dialga’s user knew that his opponent had a Palkia, prediction would be far more interesting. Assuming both players are intelligent and playing to win, the Dialga’s user could perfectly well predict a switch to Palkia to take advantage of his own probably switch to Metagross, and the Blissey’s user could perfectly well stay in and take minimal damage. In this situation, both players could take risks or play at face value, which would lead to either:
TEAM BUILDING A checklist and a sample team to help you create your own uber team Uber Team Checklist When you are playing in the uber metagame, make sure you have most of these covered. Use this checklist as a guide to build your team. Even if an uber team do not have some or these, it is still important that the team needs to cover a vast majority of threats
This is a sample team that follows most of the guidelines. The special wall/special sweeper Latias @ Soul Dew Trait: levitate EVs: 156 HP / 176 Spd / 176 SAtk Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk) - Calm Mind - Dragon Pulse - Thunder - Recover With her on the team, the weaknesses to Kyogre and Palkia are eliminated. Latias serves as a great lead due to her stated ability to counter Kyogre, a very common lead, and perform decently against Groudon. She also handles a lot of other things as well, including special attacking Arceus that are not Dragon, Bug, Ghost, Dark or Ice type. The MAIN special wall Blissey @ Leftovers Trait: Natural Cure EVs: 252 Def Def / 42 SAtk / 216 SDef Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk) - Calm Mind - Thunder - Softboiled - Ice Beam Uber Blisseys are geared towards Special Defense to help it take Water Spouts and such. Psych Up is always a welcome option over Calm Mind, if one wishes to snag the opponent’s boosts if they have boosted a couple of times. Calm Mind makes her not entirely reliant on the opponent's boosts, but Blissey can only Calm Mind once per turn, netting only one boost. Natural Cure is needed for Ubers so it can somewhat shrug off status, even though Thunder's 60% paralysis rate with Serene Grace may seem tempting. The Darkrai and Tyranitar counter Arceus @ Fist Plate Trait: Multitype EVs: 92 HP / 216 Spd / 202 SAtk Modest Nature (+SAtk ,-Atk) - Toxic - Judgment - Ice Beam - Recover Many of you will oppose and tell me to use Bug Arceus because it stops Darkrai while hitting many other ubers super-effective. This is not the case, however, since a Bug typed Arceus is weak to Stone Edge and thus will make this team vulnerable to Tyranitar. Ice Beam is there for Rayquaza. Toxic is hilarious if Latias and Lugia thinks they can come in and wall this The physical sweeper, and resistance to Dragon and Ice. Metagross @ Choice Band Trait: Clear Body EVs: 210 HP / 140 Atk / 160 SDef Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk) - Meteor Mash - Earthquake - Pursuit - Explosion The EVs are configured to let is survive a Calm Minded Modest Soul Dew Latios’ Thunder and OHKO it back with Meteor Mash. It also ensures that a Thunder from Blissey is a 5HKO against it, unless that Blissey has over 220 Special Attack. Explosion for some serious hurts when Metagross is low on health. Due to the team's rather disturbing Jirachi weakness, Earthquake is almost a requirement on Metagross The special sweeper, weather changer and revenge killer Kyogre @ Choice Scarf Trait: Drizzle EVs: 6 HP / 252 Spd / 252 SAtk Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk) - Water Spout - Thunder - Ice Beam - Surf Changes weather. With the new Speed boost from Choice Scarf, Water Spout is now usable and will put a dent into almost anything in the game. With this, sunshine is no longer a fear, and things like Heatran can no longer abuse its power. Surf allows for more damage when Kyogre has taken a few hits and is at lower than 63% health. The physical wall Giratina @ Leftovers Trait: Pressure EVs: 240 HP / 16 Atk / 252 Def Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk) - Rest - Sleep Talk - Dragon Claw - Will-o-Wisp This Pokemon is very important. It counters a Normal typed Swords Dancing Arceus, and stops Metagross and Heracross from ruining the team. It also absorbs the sleep status, and can counter Pokemon such as Groudon. Team check? This is an evaluation of the sample team. Do they all come together?
The threat list that will also help in the creation of a solid Uber team. Remember, a counter must be able to switch into a Pokemon with little or no risk to itself and threaten to deal immediate and major damage or set up without much risk to itself. Ubers
Arceus Variants
Non ubers
In ubers, Pokemon are generally EVed to outspeed other Pokemon. Examples are Lugia being trained to outspeed Groudon, and Latias being trained to outspeed Palkia. Trick Room reverses all of these, making the attempts at outspeeding useless since faster Pokemon will move last in Trick Room conditions. Why would one use a turn and a moveslot to set up Trick Room, especially when time and space are such necessary commodities in Ubers? Trick Room can allow powerful but slow Pokemon such as Groudon to make an impact. Of course, Pokemon that can set up Trick Room safely are also necessary. Usually, Pokemon that are used to set up Trick Room in Ubers are sturdy specimens such as Dialga; obviously, one would not leave the Trick Rooming to something such as Deoxys-A. ARCEUS-IS IT LEGITIMATE? Arceus is #493 on the National Dex, marking itself as the last Pokemon to exist as of now. So far, Arceus is unobtainable by any means but through a cheating device. This alone raises the concern in people-should it be considered a playable Pokemon, or should it not? Two sides argued valiantly, but neither can budge the other into finally believing that one side is correct. Due to this, it is decided that Arceus is playable ONLY if both players agree on it's use. In ShoddyBattle, the checking of the Extended Game Clause allows the use of Arceus (and Micle Berry, Jaboca Berry, Rowap Berry and Custap Berry). If one decides to play with Arceus banned, it is not required that he or she consider Arceus as a threat. |
My Notes:
If you want us to add a Pokemon to the non-ubers list, feel free to tell us, within reason. You can either write the synopsis yourself, or we can write it. Preferably, field test the Pokemon you want to suggest. If you see a grammatical error or a typo, please do not hesitate to tell us. Jibbles: Task queue is currently empty. |
great guide, thanks for making this!
comments: on your sample team, Metagross needs a nature. also, if you want, mention Jumpluff as a non-uber pokemon who is sometimes used in Ubers. thanks again! |
Added Nature and Great Sage is making the Synopsis for Jumpluff atm
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Good guide. One thing though, I can see the bold blue text working as links, but it's in such quantities that it doesn't look that great, in my opinion. I find just bold + underline is good in most cases where the bold blue text is used, but it's just a format thing and it's up to you guys.
The text directly under "Sample Team", "Team Check", and "Threat List" is blue as well though, and looks rather out of place, not to mention hard on the eyes. I really think this should just be changed to plain text; it may have just been a format mistake, I'm not sure. |
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Added cholorphyll pokemon |
I think Manaphy needs an uber synopsis as well, just because it is an uber.
Also, this is just a little thing, but technically you CAN switch out of Wobbuffet with Mew and bring in a counter since most of the time it's a baton passer. Yeah, and according to the RMTs, people like using Jirachi in ubers as well. Serene Grace can be killer, and it can also Wish easily with its nice amount of resists, although Groudon can annihilate it. I'm not completely sure if the Wishing Jirachi is the one people use in ubers the most, but I'm just assuming. |
Shiftry ought to be added to the list of Chlorophyll Pokemon; perhaps a list for Swift Swimmers as well?
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I'll add these when I have the time. I have a lot of homework atm.
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Is there anything that Shiftry can do that Exeggutor can't? It certainly isn't setting up with Nasty Plot or Swords Dance. I'll consider Swift Swimmers.
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Shiftry can Dark pulse some psychic ubers, which might be worth a mention.
Added Shiftry and Manaphy. Will add Jirachi and Swift Swimmer later |
I haven't had much time to fool around in Ubers, but Aura Sphere Mewtwo is very nasty. Tyranitar can't switch into it safely anymore. Choice Band Metagross can take out Mewtwo in one hit last gen, unsure of this gen though, it could be worth a mention here.
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Added Swift Swimmers and Jirachi. Aura Sphere on Mewtwo is standard on the Choice Specs set btw. Tyranitar can't really switch into Mewtwo unless it is absolutely sure that Mewtwo does not or will use Grass knot/Aura Sphere.
Edited Formatting a bit |
Nice guide, I must say playing ubers is way more fun than standard, also I'm gonna make a new uber team according to this guide, seeing as Great Sage kicked my ass when we battled with ubers.
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I'll look over this later. Probably in a day or so.
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Possibly recommend Kabutops under Rain Dancers or otherwise. I see this being a huge threat in the Rain with Swords Dance, or if you insist...Choice Band.
A Swords Danced Kabutops can also play with toys like Knock Off and Rapid Spin, which can be easier to pull off than one might think, as it can switch directly into something like Deoxys-Def without facing an immediate threat other than possibly Toxic. Please note that I haven't tried this at all, Shoddy or otherwise. I have used it to some degree of success in ADV, and that was before it got Waterfall, however. |
Good stuff, I had fun reading this!
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Heh, ubers :D
How is Palkia more offensive then Dialga? Run a mimic Specsmence set, (Draco Meteor/Overheat/Ice Beam or filler/filler @ Choice Specs), deadly without or with Sunny Day. Thinking of running a trick room uber team, having a Sassy Giratina with really good IVs, a Dialga with high SDEF, flawless SATK and low SPD IVs, and of course, Drought to boost Dialga. Yay Groudon being slow. :D |
Thanks for the nice comments, and looking forward to what you think, Obi.
@The Claw of Zangoose: It's not a matter of Dialga being incapable of dealing damage. Palkia is faster and has STAB on Surf, which gets heavily boosted in the rain. Also, Dialga's Steel typing grants it a lot of resistances and lets it defend against things like Kyogre and Palkia. |
Great stuff!!
Shiftry = Fake out, so deffinatly worth a mention. And Kabutops for Endrue/Reversal in the rain! Useful *adds to favourites* |
I thiink that Bronzong should be tested, if not just put on that list, due to it's insane amount of resistances, etc. and walling ability.
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It was a nice read and all, but I think the 'check list' is kind of...how do I say this, hmm, pointless? If every team was like that and followed the list, how would a team ever win? It sounds in this guide like it's NECESSARY to have each of those, while it's just useful, as if every team were the same, then it'll be an ongoing stall war.
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@DevilinDenial:
I'd like to see some data about Bronzong's performance in Ubers; test it if you want to. @Aeroblacktyl: The fact is, Ubers has indeed become a situation of "if you don't have Giratina you get raped by Normal Arceus" and "Rayquaza rampages through your team if you don't have Metagross". |
Steel Arceus (way better than Fighting Arceus, too)?
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Bronzong has not been used by me, however in Ubers it walls a lot of shit, and let's not forget it can Hypnosis, Stealth Rock, Toxic, Light Screen/Reflect, ReStalk and Explosion, plus 76 Speed is like Death to all with Gyro Ball. Pressure's a bitch, though. All calculations are considering that you're max in that stat. Otherwise you should get out.
The Uber Walls Lugia: Let's admit it, Lugia is as walled as Bronzong. Bronzong can Explode if neccessary, and/or put Lugia to sleep. Giratina: If you're hit with a Critical Hit, Choice Banded Shadow Claw and you have Leftovers, it won't KO you unless it CHs again. It can also be put to Sleep Deoxys-D: lol that's funny. Toxic Bronzong sounds nice right now. Or Hypnosis. The Uber sweepers Mewtwo: Choice Specs Mewtwo with Focus Blast/Thunder does 47-55%, in other words, it's walled. Deoxys-A: 2HKOs with Focus Blast/Thunder, but otherwise can't get past you. Rayquaza: Resists everything short of Overheat and other Fire moves, and only Overheat and Fire Blast even 2HKO. Kyogre: Bronzong can't even joke with it. Groudon: Most of the time has a Fire move, but non Swords Dancing ones are walled so badly. Ho-oh: lol see Heatran Palkia: If you're in the Sand you'll be 3HKOed. Dialga: Can't hit you with anything but CS sets, and you can EarthQuake or put it to sleep. Darkrai: ReStalking variations beat Darkrai BAD. Latios and Latias: Most of the time you'll beat it by simply attacking. Manaphy: WTF Manaphy? Other Ubers Arceus: Only certain types can face down Bronzong. Mew: You'll beat non-BP variations. Deoxys and Deoxys-S: Non Uber Pokemon in ubers Blissey: Blissey rarely has defense or has no HP in Ubers, it is 2HKOed. Metagross: Can't get past you. Ever. Heatran: lol see Ho-Oh Tyranitar: Sets up valuable Sand for you. Nonetheless, you aren't going to beat it. Heracross: No chance either. Ninjask: Stealth Rock is set up, Gyro Ball OHKOs. Skarmory: It's like Lugia. Forretress: It's like Lugia. Magnezone: No chance at beating this, unless you pack EarthQuake. Weavile: Completely walled by you. Shedinja: If you're using this with Sandstream it's dead lol. Stealth Rock, etc. Jirachi: Walled by you, can be put to sleep as well. I didn't include the other Weather bastards, they're quite irrellevent. |
Hmm, I'll write a Bronzong synopsis, but do note that Bronzong's primary form of attacking, Gyro Ball, only has 8 PP. Also, Bronzong needs absolute maximum Special Defense and HP to consider doing the stuff you mentioned. That detracts significantly from its offensive capabilities, and that equals prime setup fodder if you don't have Explosion. Also, Bronzong IMO must have Toxic in Ubers.
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Added Bronzong to the threat list and pokemon list
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Also, Metagross countering Bronzong was not a typo. Bronzong probably needs maximum Special Defense and HP to take on Ubers, and CBed Metagross Meteor Mash does 37% minimum (according to Jibbles) on that spread. Even if Bronzong has Earthquake, it's probably a 4HKO, since Bronzong can't afford to invest Attack in Ubers.
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However, Metagross is walled by ReStalking variations. I understand your point, however.
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No, it doesn't. After one Meteor Mash Attack boost, Bronzong won't be able to perpetually Rest; in fact, Meteor Mash without an Attack boost is a 3HKO unless it deals very near minimum damage all 3 times.
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Some things I thought should be added imo:
1. Skarmory isn't much of a threat anymore. Everyone found out that forretress pretty much puts skarmory to shame with rapid spin. 2. Dialga is almost a perfect counter to kyogre with the right ev spread etc. 3. May be obvious, but prioritize stealth rock over spikes when given the option of the two. 4. Shedinja isn't much of a threat either anymore. It's rare now to face anyone what doesn't have neither spikes/sr nor a SE hitting counter to sheddy. 5. Lugia counters ninjask by whirlwinding it. Also extreme speed arceus can do the job. 6. Don't trust meta as a reliable jirachi counter. If the jirachi is in rain, meta will die before jirachi. 7. You should also note that deoxsy-a has no reliable counter. Metagross and latias and such are only good for revenge kills. I had a pretty lengthy with sarenji before and we came to that at least 2 certain pokes are needed to be sure to counter deoxys-a. 8. If you haven't noted this yet: giratina + forretress is one of the deadliest combos in the game. Not only do they significantly cover each other's weaknesses, they also successfully set up spikes/sr. 9. Groudon has enough defense to call it a tyranitar counter. 10. Heatran is a good heatran counter. |
Registeel should be mentioned imo. It can survive a non-CS Drizzle Water Spout from a 252 Modest Kyogre.
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@Jebroni: I run Forretress+Giratina on my uberstall team, and it did very well against almost everyone I played, including Jibaku and SePh, so I don't doubt you on that. I hesitate to call Heatran its own counter, though, because while it is true that they can easily absorb each other's Overheats, an Earth Power would be very much disliked, even though Earth Power should see little practical use in Ubers.
@hp [leaves]: And what else does Registeel do? Just because it can take attacks doesn't mean it's useful. |
Although it was mentioned earlier in this thread, Shiftry should definitely get a mention. Although there are more useful chlorophyllers, Shiftry gets the advantage of a chlorophyll'd explosion ^__^
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I think Clefable should also be used and included in uber battles along with Yanmega. Clefable has the magic guard ability and can be useful since most ubers attack on the special side. Yanmega should also be included because along with Speed Boost, it has hypnosis, which is useful and less riskier than to sweep Scarfogre than with an adamant Arceus since he can learn protect and the ability works for each turn.
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2) Me and Great Sage talked about Yanmega a while ago, and decided that it won't work very well. It is weak to Stealth Rock, walled completely by Blissey (unless you use Reversal). It really only beats up Mewtwo, Darkrai and Rayquaza (HP Ice), and nothing else. You can only switch into a CBed Earthquake or Close Combat. If you ask why Ninjask is there, it's because Skarm/Lugia aren't as common as Bliss is, and being able to BP the boosts beats Yanmega's failed attempt to sweep in ubers 3) What? |
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Stone Edge Gyara can't counter another Stone Edge Gyara, and if Heatran isn't using Earth Power, how will it counter its own kind? |
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