Well, most likely heatran will be having a choice item. If your heatran comes into their fire attack, that will force them to switch. (Of course, there is that odd of heatran not having a choice item, which is why I only said it was a good but not perfect counter).

Wow, this is an amazing guide; thanks for putting all the time into making this. I've been inspired to make an uber team of my own.

Deoxys-A: It had the misfortune to have been born with pitiful defenses almost equaling to that of Carvanha’s. But laugh at its miniscule as much as you want,


There's a word missing here between miniscule and as. Should probably be defenses, or something like that.

Great guide by the way. I usually stray away from ubers, but I may just make one on Shoddy.

Edited Mewtwo and Deoxys

Have a Rapid Spinner. Spinning helps you get your Ho-oh, Lugia and Rayquaza into the field. However, in the Uber metagame, the only Pokemon that should be considered for spinning is Forretress, and in the Uber metagame, Forretress doesn’t do much besides help physical walling and soaking up Outrages, and possibly Exploding.



Not a typo or anything, but isn't Forry valuable in ubers for setting up the crippling Toxic Spikes and Stealth Rock? It just seems he's more utility than a big physical wall.

Yea I really need to make an uber stall guide. All I need is to find the time to do that.

Kabutops should be mentioned in the spinners section in my opinion. I think he is the fastest spinner in the game during rainfall.

Well, I'm working on a stall guide overall... Well, I will be at some point; I have a horrible procrastination habit.

Missing word here. Should read: dish back significant damage with Thunder or Grass Knot.

Odd wording here. Change to: Darkrai, like Mewtwo, has virtually no counters.

need mention of of rare physcial or even mixed jirachis which beat up Blisseys expecting any pure special set

also 60% par chance of body slam is nice when Groudon thinks it can come in on T-wave or Thunder

Blissey is virtually never the first switch into any Jirachi, because it can't beat the Calm Mind sets unless it has Calm Mind itself and even then, it needs a critical hit to win. Any physical set is beaten by Giratina, which is incredibly common, anyways.

stalling in ubers you would have to use blissey ....

On Ninjask: what is the viability of a Choice Band version?

EDIT: blah was thinking X-Scissor hit Lugia super-effective for some reason it's only 28% - 33% neutral =(

No, stalling Blisseys usually carry Toxic and not Calm Mind, and therefore would be incapable of beating Calm Mind Jirachi. A physical Jirachi would never be capable of dealing particularly catastrophic damage on Blissey anyways; remember that even Uber Blisseys carry Defense EVs.

If you needed a fast, fragile attacker, you should probably be using Deoxys-A anyways.

Thanks for this wonderful and awesome guide Jibaku!

Just a minor question to all uber battlers: Is Icy Wind still a 'chic' move for Blissey in uberplay? I remember it being used somewhat in ADV ubers.

With I think the exception of Jebroni, every Blissey I've seen used Calm Mind, meaning it would use a real offensive move like Ice Beam. Calm Mind Blissey is really the only Blissey that doesn't completely suck this gen, as far as I've seen so far (it's only "pretty bad").

Didya know that since no one uses Lugia that a SubSDSalac Groudon pretty much sweeps the entire metagame. It's pretty amazing.

I mean, fucking Giratina can't even fucking break the fucking subs!!!

O
Thanks
*adds to Groudon analysis

Yet another reason for Giratina to carry Dragon Pulse instead of Dragon Claw. Dragon Claw is seriously trash on it.

Well DClaw hits Lati@s and Palkia harder, so Giratina isn't gonna be switch in bait every time. Blissey isn't gonna deal with Latias forever.

It's more like this
Pulse advantages:
1) Dragon Pulse breaks Groudon's Substitutes
2) Very slight chance of 3HKOing an opposing Giratina, although you might want to scrap that since Pressure leaves you with only 8 PPs
3) Hits Mewtwo/Darkrai harder-not going to matter much though. Hasty Darkrai/Two takes almost the same from Dragon Claw anyways

Claw advantages:
1) Latios and Latias take harder from it. Latios can take over 80% from it.
2) Palkia takes a load from it-up to 71% if it's Hasty
3) You stand a better chance against Ho-oh. Dragon Pulse does lol to Ho-oh's base 154 SDef and Pressure kills it in the long run.
4) It obviously does more damage to Blissey. This, I note, is a very nice advantage, since WoW + Dragon Claw will force Blissey to Softboil constantly, whereas she laughs at Dragon Pulse
5) 24 PP > 16 PP

Qwilfish deserves a mention in the 'Swift Swimmers' section of the non-ubers. With access to Destiny Bond and Explosion, he's good as a sacrificial way of dealing with many threats, especially with the rain set up. Good physical attack combined with Waterfall and rain can do a fair bit of damage, and he has Toxic Spikes too. Ice Beam also deserves a mention for Rayquaza switch-ins, although it isn't likely to KO him it can hurt him significantly. Yes he won't be outspeeding a lot of things without the rain, and yes he's never likely to survive more than a turn or two.

Isn't Wynaut also considered an Uber? It has the same moves as Wobbuffette, just lower stats.

EDIT: Also, not to start arguments/problems, but I really don't like the fact that Manaphy is uber, he doesn't seem that uber =/

Manaphy is an Uber for now; end of discussion.

But how about Wynaut? Doesn't he have the same moves as his evoloution? Just wondering lol =D

Wynaut : Wobbuffet :: Phione : Manaphy

Its lowered stats make it absolute garbage. Even Wobbuffet isn't THAT good in uber-play since everything hits much harder. Wynaut, which probably wouldn't that broken in OU, would get totally murdered in ubers (not that uber viability is a prerequisite for uber status, mind you); with its lower defenses, it's not taking many decent hits before it dies. I've tried Wynaut in ADV UU and without good prediction, it doesn't do much. Many things would 2HKO it making Encore + Counter/MC risky.

People would probably still bitch about it if it were allowed in OU though.

Don't turn this topic into a "here's MY opinion" shitfest. The uber list isn't for debate in this thread, suck it up.

Could Arcanine work well in Ubers?

It gets Dragon Claw and Extreamspeed as well as having decent attacking stats and Intimidate is a bonus. 95 Speed means it outspeeds some important stuff as well.

My other thought was Moltres but between Ho-oh and Heatran it's outclassed in every way (U-Turn?).

First, you mean Dragon Pulse. Anyways, Fire is a pretty bad attacking type in Ubers, and while Arcanine's attacking stats are decent, it simply doesn't have enough of any one. Stuff that is incredibly common like Giratina and Kyogre make it sob, and aside from Intimidate, lol Fire Arceus outclasses it entirely.

Shiftry is a cool Pokemon in ubers.

It gets STAB Dark Pulse (and can Nasty Plot) on the special side to hit Psychics, especially Lati@s.

It gets STAB Faint Attack (and can Swords Dance) to go physical.

Fake Out / Quick Attack can have a few uses (not very many).

It resists Dark Pulse rather than being weak to it, and can hit Darkrai with Brick Break or Solarbeam (depending on whether you are physical or special).

It's also a lot faster, so it can outspeed Choice Scarf dudes in the Sun.

That brings up another swift swimer to my question, Seaking. Seaking is kind of like a retarded floatzel with 28 less base attack, and a lack of good physical moves for coverage(aka Icefang and brick break) but it gets two things floatzel doesn't have, Aquatail (waterfall, but floatzel aso gets it) and megahorn. but that's about all it gets over him.... Is he considerable?

@Obi: Shiftry was added quite a while ago.
@TheMantyke: Seaking is definitely not worth mentioning. It needs to invest Speed EVs to reach ~220 to outrun all Deoxys-A after a Swift Swim boost, and as you said is a retarded Floatzel (Aqua Tail is inferior to Waterfall, especially in rain, where quick Pokemon will get the flinch chance). 92 base Attack is nothing to write home about, and the chief counters to physical Pokemon, such as Lugia and Giratina, lol at Megahorn.

I'm a bit inexperienced in Ubers play, but one thing I did notice is that Dugtrio is given a small mention on Deoxys-A but isn't actually listed on the non-uber pokemon list. It probably deserves a mention there, since as mentioned before it can kill Deoxys-A, in addition to revenge-killing anything that's low enough (and slower). It can also revenge-kill anything that's locked into Choice Thunder.

Steel Arceus is sometimes used in ubers (it's even mentioned on the Arceus description). Not the safest switch into TTar (it's 2HKO'd by CB EQ), but it can come in safely on it's other attacks and, as it is an uber that resists rock, it should be mentioned for completion's sake at least.

Honestly, Steel Arceus isn't really good. SePh tells me that Dugtrio isn't particularly good, and I agree; just about the only Choice locked Thunder that exist is from Kyogre (and maybe Deoxys-A, but Dugtrio deals with that anyways), and it's pretty hard to use besides. On the upside, it could pick off a Blissey, Dialga, or Metagross...

Dugtrio is an amazing Pokemon imo.

There are tons of Specs / Scarf Pokemon who lock themselves into Thunder, which is good. Dugtrio can catch Dialga for something along the lines of 99% ( >=( ), has Sucker Punch to KO Deoxys-A, and can Pursuit for Lati@s (yes, I use Pursuit Dugtrio). If Blissey doesn't have Ice Beam, you can kill it, opening the gates to a special sweep from a versatile (as in not just Dragon Pulse as the attack) Latias sweep. If Blissey does have Ice Beam with 249 SpAtk (max without nature), it has a 54% chance to OHKO a 4 SpDef Dugtrio, which are fairly even odds.

I use it with Magnezone and DD LO Outrage Rayquaza. It and Magnezone get rid of any annoying Steels (and Magnezone sets up the Reflect / Light Screen to let Rayquaza survive long enough to DD), and then it's just Outrage sweep.

I like azelf in ubers, as it can kill one or more pokemon with focus slash, I run:
Azelf@Focus Sash
252 Speed/ 252 Sp. Attack/6 Hp
Nasty Plot
Shadow Ball
Explosion
HP Fighting

You can kill the psychics out there with shadow ball, and hp fighting takes care of tyranitar. Normally I use Nasty Plot, then get saved by the focus slash, then sweep, and explode when there's something that walls you.

What do you do versus Dialga if you lack HP Fight?

nothing wrong with it, just mentioning that it's focus SASH not slash

Thanks, also changed it just to hidden power fighting, as you can blow up on those other dragons.

This is a great guide and I will definitely refer to it when I make a team for Uber. However, there are a few minor mistakes I wish to point out.

Under Dialga's description, it says "... and one of the the top ranked type combinations..."

There is an extra "the" there.

Under the Latios and Latias description, it says "They also received Grass Knot.for..."

There is an unnecessary period between "Grass Knot" and "for."

Under Blissey's description, it says "For maximum special wall capablities..."

"Capablities" should be spelled as "capabilities."

Under the Swift Swimmers section, Latias should be capatilized.

In the sample team section, it says "...Earthquake is almost a requrement.."

"Requrement" should be "requirement."

These are the only mistakes I found. Other than that, is flawless in my opinion.