OU Team - The Newton-Seconds
Hello, Smogonites! This is my first "real" team - one I've actually put work and thought in. I've played with it a bit on the ladder, though I haven't done it enough (and I don't have much experience or skill) that I've achieved any notable rank. The movesets and EV spreads are stock sets, taken from the Analysis writeups.
The basic theory of this team is, quite simply, a heavily offensive team based around getting and keeping offensive momentum, forcing the opponent to repeatedly switch while taking damage from Stealth Rock and sandstorm. Without further ado, here is the team!
Team Building Process:
A Closer Look
Tyranitar (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature (+SpD, -SAtk)
- Stealth Rock
Tyranitar covers several major roles on my team:
-First, as one would expect from its position as my default lead, it sets up SR, which is key to the entire team's strategy.
-Second, it can help deal with Ghost types, trapping them with Pursuit.
-Third, it sets up sandstorm. This helps against opposing weather teams, deals damage over time - which greatly helps when both me and my opponent keep switching/U-turning/Volt Switching for several turns in a row, and prepares for Excadrill's later sweep.
-Fourth, it serves as a special tank and defensive pivot. While Tyranitar's list of resistances is unexceptional, the Specially Defensive set allows it to take a wide variety of neutral hits on the special spectrum.
Unfortunately, Tyranitar lacks recovery beyond leftovers, since there's no Wish users on my team. While this limits its durability, it rarely has to come in often during a match.
Superpower is there primarily for opposing Tyranitars, and both Crunch and Pursuit means it can trap opposing Ghosts/Psychics while still having significant power in general. I'm not sure if I need all three of these moves, though; something like Ice Beam would be helpful in taking on opposing Dragons. (Haxorus and Dragon/Flying types i.e. Salamence, Dragonite are who I'm thinking here; Lati@s are already handled by Crunch, and Hydreigon is easily dealt with by Mienshao and Scizor)
Mienshao (M) @ Life Orb
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 HP / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature (+Spe, -SpA)
- Hi Jump Kick
- Stone Edge
- Fake Out
Mienshao is one of the cornerstones of the team. With Regenerator, it can switch in and out many, many times, while Fake Out racks up damage, its powerful Hi Jump Kick threatens opponents out, and U-turn retaining momentum when my opponent switches. Ghosts are one of Mienshao's biggest weaknesses, but it can just U-turn out to Scizor or Tyranitar to take them out.
Scizor (F) @ Choice Band
EVs: 244 HP / 252 Atk / 12 Spe
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Bullet Punch
I go with Choice Band Scizor over SD Scizor because of the stated purpose of this team. SD Scizor requires setup, which kills momentum, as opposed to this sets ability to rip holes in the opposition and keep up momentum by U-turning. There's little to say about this set, it's familiar to anyone who's played gen 4. The 12 EVs in speed are to win the speed tie against anyone else using the CB set right out of the analysis page.
One possible change I've contemplated is using an Iron Plate instead of CB. Iron Plate lets me bluff CB, and enough things can come in on a Bullet Punch that there's a decent chance one of Scizor's other moves can deal a lot of damage. Thoughts on this would be appreciated, since I don't know if this is too cute/gimmicky or is a legitimate possibility.
Rotom-W @ Choice Scarf
EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature (+Spe, -Atk)
- Volt Switch
- Hydro Pump
- Hidden Power [Fire]
Rotom-W forms the third part of the team's offensive core, alongside Mienshao and Scizor. With Volt Switch, it can keep bouncing back to the others, dealing damage all the while. It can't serve as a bulky water, obviously, but its simply a powerful offensive 'mon that provides me with useful Electric and Water attacks. HP Fire is for grass types that would otherwise resist this set easily, particularly Ferrothorn. Trick allows it to deal with supporters or walls like Jellicent, and is in fact my team's best answer to the floating watery blob.
Rotom is who I usually go to on a predicted Ground-type attack, especially early on when I don't want to bring Excadrill out. Rotom is also very useful as a revenge killer; when I lose another member of my team, Rotom can come in and either kill the opponent, or Volt Switch to regain and maintain my offensive momentum.
Skarmory @ Leftovers
EVs: 252 HP / 232 Def / 24 Spe
Impish Nature (+Def, -SpA)
- Brave Bird
Skarmory is my new defensive pokemon, a recent change to the team. It serves as a defensive pivot, just as Jellicent did. It also does well against Excadrill and provides another unconditional Ground immunity, two problems I'd had. I also can use it to set up Spikes, which greatly aid the team. While I lose the access to Taunt that Jellicent gave, Whirlwind is quite useful instead, and gives my team the ability to phaze out someone trying to set up. I might change Brave Bird to Taunt, though, to help deal with opposing walls; an incoming Taunt on Skarmory is usually easy to predict, and Brave Bird doesn't do a whole lot of damage.
The EV spread is taken from the Analysis writeup; the Speed EVs are to outspeed max Speed Wobbuffet. I don't know if this is enough of an issue to merit EV investment; perhaps they'd be more useful in Def or SpD.
Excadrill (F) @ Life Orb
Trait: Sand Rush
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature (+Spe, -SAtk)
- Swords Dance
- Rock Slide
- Brick Break
This Excadrill has changed somewhat since its initial setup; most notably, I've focused it on defeating opposing Excadrills, with Brick Break and a Jolly nature. Life Orb lets it have the power to do this without needing a turn of setup. I've dropped Rapid Spin out of necessity; I haven't truly needed it yet.
Excadrill is somewhat less synergistic with the rest of the team; the major interaction it has is, of course, with Tyranitar.
Excadrill often comes in late game, once my other teammates have dealt with the primary opposing defenders and Excadrill checks like Conkeldurr or Heatran. Excadrill then can usually just SD up and sweep to finish the match.
The overall strategy can be divided into three stages:
Stage 1 - set up rocks with Tyranitar. Deal with an opponent's weather enabler, if they have one. Gain offensive momentum with one of my three major threats. (Mienshao, Scizor, Rotom-W)
Stage 2 - bounce between the aforementioned three threats with U-turn and Volt Switch, racking up damage with those moves, SR, and sandstorm. Excadrill can be brought in to spin opposing enemy hazards away.
Stage 3 - with the opposing defensive core weakened or destroyed, finish the match with a final sweep, usually by Excadrill, Mienshao, or Scizor.
Current Concerns, Problems, and Possible Changes
-While the team as it is covers a pretty wide span of types, there's a few attack types that I don't resist well. Notably, I only have one Electric resist in Excadrill, nothing that properly resists Fighting, and only Rotom-W and Skarmory covering ground.
-Tyranitar's sandstorm causes a fair bit of damage to my team, with Rotom-W being the most affected - Mienshao can usually heal it off with Regenerator, but Rotom-W can't come in all that many times before it becomes useless.
-Tyranitar is often forced to not be my lead, because when most people see it in Team Preview, they'll lead with something that counters it pretty hard. I'll lead with something else - often Mienshao for scouting purposes - but trying to bring Tyranitar back in to set up sand and to get SR up is often a problem.
-Thundurus is a rather significant threat to me. Excadrill can outrun it, but only if I get sand up. I don't know if ScarfRotom and Scizor's Bullet Punch do much against it.
-With no Ghost type and no Fighting resist, I have issues with the numerous Fighting sweepers present in the tier. Skarmory is useful, but takes neutral damage from too many types (notably, Fighting and Rock) to really serve my purposes. I'm not sure where I can fit a Ghost type in.
-I've thought of having a more dedicated Excadrill counter and sweeper in the last spot; Conkeldurr comes to mind. While he lacks the raw power of Excadrill, he doesn't need to be the primary offense of the team. If I switch to Conkeldurr, I don't need sandstorm and I might change the lead around.
-The team name comes from the SI unit for momentum, since that's such an important part of this team's strategy.
-I'm not going to include a threatlist due to my unfamiliarity with the meta and because this team is very much still in flux.
-The EVs are mostly taken from the analysis pages in the forum; I haven't tuned them at all. If there are changes in that regard that would help, please say so!
-Thank you for reading this, and thanks to anyone who rates! I really appreciate it, and I hope my team is interesting.
Not a really helpful suggestion, but something you may want to consider.
Is Fake Out on Mienshao helpful to you? If it's not, you may want to consider Stone-Edge for coverage, thereby making Mienshao more of an offensive presence against Pokemon that resists HJK. There are quite a few monsters that Stone-Edge would nail hard that HP Ice fails (IE Gyarados).
Another thing to consider is Substitute. Substitute is an underrated move that really helps protect Mienshao from being revenge-killed or statused, as well as easing prediction. With Regeneration, I'd think the loss of 25% health wouldn't be too much. This can go over Fake-Out or U-turn (if you opted for Stone-Edge > Fake-Out). Although, U-turn maintains your momentum, I would feel that Substitute can also help you keep the momentum without necessarily switching out Mienshao.
Stone Edge is definitely a good idea - I assume it can deal with Gliscor and Landorus fairly well. I'll try that out in place of HP Ice, changing the nature to Jolly. EDIT: And for Hippowdon, I can just go to Rotom-W, right?
Why not Jolly on the Excadrill? Outspeeds other Excadrills.
Since you already have Pursuit Ttar, I'd suggest running Bug Bite on Scizor.
Oh, a question for the more experienced and more metagame-knowledgable people - are there any glaring weaknesses to this setup? What particular 'mons will I have trouble dealing with?
^By glancing over your team, it seems that if your Rotom goes down or gets low on health, then Jolly Excadrill can come in, SD, and sweep with ease.
I wouldn't worry too much over Ferrothorn; most of your Pokes are checks to it; even if you have no counters. Fix that Excadrill counter, and you should be fine.
Hmm. I could switch Jellicent to Ferrothorn, figuring out a good EV spread to cover both physical and special. The only big gap in resistances that would leave is Fighting, not like that's common or important to cover. It also leaves me without a spinblocker. Use Skarmory, perhaps? Again, I have no spinblocking without changing another member. Any ideas are most appreciated!
Well think of it like this.
If the spinner is Excadrill, then you're basically screwed.
If it's Starmie, then you can bring in Rotom or Scizor and KO it, and set up more spikes in the process.
If it's Forry, Excadrill can use it as set up fodder.
Heh, that's a good way of looking at it. And I don't think there are any other spinners of note that I need to worry that much about
So let's see...if I switch Jellicent to Skarmory, that also gives me another ground immunity, which is nice. Think that Rotom-W and Skarmory will be able to check Excadrill? Any particular moves or EVs I should have on Skarmory to make sure it counters well enough?
Rotom-W should check Excadrill about.... 66% of the time if my calcs are right. If it's Adamant, then it's a guessing game with your Excadrill.
If you find that you don't need Rapid Spin, going Jolly on Excadrill and running Brick Break should solve your Excadrill problem easily. That gives you a free Poke too.
Also, could you take a look at my team? Thanks.
This is a minor point but if you change your Excadrill to have a Jolly Nature and Brick Break, then Excadrill should hold a Life Orb or it will do 70.7% to 83.4% to opposing Excadrill. With LO, Brick Break will do 91.7% to 108.3%. After SR that's about a 70% chance to KO, as opposed to 6% if you have Air Balloon (of course, these calcs include the chance for a critical hit). You could have a Choice Band Excadrill but then you have 3 Choice Pokemon and there is the chance that other Excadrill can come in after you have used another move. However, it does give you the benefit of not setting up and having X-Scissor / Return. It could even have Rapid Spin if necessary.
Jolly Life Orb excadrill with brick break is definitely the right choice for you.
After looking over your team, your entire team seems to have a severe weakness to ground attacks. Even with rotom-w, you can still be taken down by it.
I've made a few of the recommended changes to the team, and updated the OP correspondingly. New stuff is in bold. I laddered a little bit tonight, I'll probably test them out more tomorrow.
EDIT: A couple notes from my scattered thoughts:
- I can divide the team into three components; the trifecta of Mienshao, Scizor, and Rotom-W that act as scouts and attackers; the two supporters, currently Tyranitar and Skarmory, who put up entry hazards and serve as pivots; and a late game sweeper, currently Excadrill, to close out games.
-Looking at those two supporters, it is not imperative that I have sandstorm (because I can just change the late sweeper to something that doesn't need it); I just need the two functions named above. So perhaps I change to Jellicent and something else (Deoxys-S?), and change the sweeper to Conkeldurr or something.
If you do change the sweeper and weather, then don't use Conkeldurr. It's a terrible sweeper, alright Excadrill counter though.
What about Nasty Plot Lucario with Vacuum Wave for Excadrill? Just throwing out ideas.
And I've taken a look at your team...I'll post a rate soon, worry not!
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