Since I recently got eliminated from Smogon Tournament #8, I decided to retire this team and post a RMT. While most teams are using a more common weather, like sand, rain, or hail, I decided to try something different. Weatherless seemed fine, but that made playing weather teams unnecessarily hard. I then considered hail, and it seemed great with Kyurem around. I thought of Kyurem as pretty great thanks to its high stats, and gave hail a shot. I started out with a team of Abomasnow + 5 Blizzard spammers, which worked out surprisingly well. However, it wasn't very reliable and mostly relied on the opponent's number of solid Ice resists. I therefore tried a more balanced form of hail, however I didn't want to go towards stall; I wanted it to stay offensive. I knew I needed a Rapid Spinner, so I considered both Starmie and Hitmontop. In the end I decided to go with Starmie because Tyranitar really isn't that much of a threat anymore and Starmie really keeps up the offensive pace. I knew I also needed something to set up Stealth Rock. I considered JabbaTheGriffin's Empoleon for that slot, but in the end went with Heatran. Jynx and Nidoking filled the last two slots, and they were both excellent offensive . However, I noticed that letting the opponent set up a sweeper meant an instant loss way too often. I therefore used Salamence, and later Scizor, to replace the former and thus the team was born.
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Abomasnow (M) @ Expert Belt
Trait: Snow Warning
EVs: 216 Atk / 200 SAtk / 92 Spd
Lonely Nature (+Atk, -Def)
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Wood Hammer
- Ice Shard
Abomasnow is obviously an absolute necessity for any hail team. Unforunately, it isn't exactly the best to use in OU. This set, however, can both set up hail as well as counter some of the most common in the metagame. This set absolutely tears apart those annoying Volt-Turning cores, as Rotom-W, like any Water-type, can't hurt Abomasnow only to get Wood Hammer'd back. Scizor, on the other hand, is lured in for a free U-Turn on a "Choice Scarfed" Wood Hammer, and cleanly OHKOed by Hidden Power Fire. If it tries to do something fancy and Bullet Punch, I can simply Protect and switch to any of my other bar Kyurem. Abomasnow also takes on Dragonite with Ice Shard, which OHKOes every common Dragonite set after Stealth Rock. ExtremeSpeed variants are not a problem because they, for one, are either walled by Scizor or Heatran depending on the coverage move they carry, and quite easily taken down. Added to that, ExtremeSpeed doesn't even after a Dance and Stealth Rock damage, leaving me able to still take it down. This way, Abomasnow itself takes on the three most common in the metagame!
Abomasnow also does a good job against the other common weather starters. Politoed, which is in my opinion the most dangerous one, can be taken down with Abomasnow quite easily. His STAB Water attacks won't harm Abomasnow due to Snow Warning and Grass-typing, removing rain and resisting those attacks. Abomasnow, on the other hand, can OHKO even defensive Politoed with Wood Hammer, leaving me free to play more carefully with Abomasnow. Tyranitar is a little harder to take on, because Fire Blast or Stone Edge can really harm Abomasnow, but unfortunately those moves aren't all that common (less than half of Tyranitar have them) while I can outspeed and OHKO all common Tyranitar sets with Wood Hammer. Ninetales is quite annoying for me to take on, but luckily it is also the worst weather starters out there. Any and all Ninetales sets are complete setup fodder for Heatran, and Salamence can also easily take it on if Heatran is down.
I don't exactly know how the EVs work, but they do their job. I KO everything I need to, as defensive Politoed, Tyranitar, and Scizor are all KOed after Stealth Rock. The Speed EVs let me outspeed standard Jellicent and Scizor, letting me Wood Hammer and Hidden Power Fire for the KO without taking a Will-O-Wisp or a U-Turn to the face. I didn't create this set myself: I got this set from Delko, who told me this set was Stunt's.
Kyurem @ Leftovers
EVs: 56 HP / 236 SAtk / 216 Spd
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Focus Blast
- Dragon Pulse
Kyurem is in my opinion currently one of the best to use in OU, especially in hail. With those beastly attacking stats, nothing is safe. Jirachi is the only thing that can switch in repeatedly to all sets, because Bronzong is quite easily worn down while Chansey and Blissey easily fall to an Outrage. This set I'm using though, might look familiar. The reason that it does is because it is. This set was used by Delko and Mynism and they also posted a Rate My Team featuring this set. This set works so well because it can set up a Substitute against a surprising amount of , thanks to its surprisingly great bulk. 125 Base HP is certainly nothing to mess with, and especially not when combined with base 90 defensive stats on each side. Kyurem also has a rather nifty typing, because thanks to its -typing it resists both Water- and Electric-type attacks, letting it set up on a numerous amount of such as Rotom-W and Jellicent. Its secondary Ice-typing is actually a useful defensive typing here, because it makes Kyurem neutral to Ice attacks, letting it set up on pretty much all Water-types without having to worry about Ice Beam.
After the Sub is up, it's time to start wrecking. Even without a Choice Specs or a Life Orb, Blizzard and Pulse do tons of damage. Nothing that likes taking two Blizzards or Pulses to the face takes a Focus Blast well, with the only exceptions being Blissey, Chansey, and Jirachi. However, if I predict a Chansey switching in and it is at 71% or lower, I can try my luck with Focus Blast to 2HKO! Thanks to Chansey lacking Leftovers and Hail hurting Chansey, Focus Blast always 2HKOes 71% Chansey after two rounds of hail damage and one round of Stealth Rock damage.
The EVs look complicated, but in fact are quite easy. 56 HP is a key number because it lets Kyurem set up 101 HP Substitutes, as well as letting it switch into Stealth Rock five times. The Speed EVs let Kyurem outspeed Lucario and everything slower, while the rest of the EVs are dumped in Special Attack for more power.
Heatran (M) @ Air Balloon
Trait: Flash Fire
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Stealth Rock
- Fire Blast
- Earth Power
- Hidden Power [Ice]
Heatran is one of the more important members of my team, as it sets up the always useful Stealth Rock and is my main weapon against sun teams. Heatran is my lead a lot of the times, as the Abomasnow lures in tend to be setup fodder for Heatran. Ninetales, Scizor, Bronzong, and several other often try to lead against Abomasnow to win the matchup and gain momentum or entry hazards, but they are forced out by Heatran only for me to get the hazard advantage. The onest that can't be handled by either, such as Choice Scarf or Specially Defensive Tyranitar and Infernape, are handled by the rest of my team quite easily. Tyranitar gives Scizor a free U-Turn while Infernape is walled by both Starmie and Salamence.
Heatran also completes a Fire / Water / Grass core with Abomasnow and Starmie, which while not as useful anymore, still works fine. Sun teams have trouble getting past Heatran, and rain teams are often threatened by Abomasnow and Starmie. If I see that I'm battling a sun team, I try to preserve Heatran's Air Balloon as much as possible, because a Venusaur with Earthquake or a Dugtrio can really make my team a lot harder against them without Heatran. However, if Venusaur has Earthquake they never have something to hurt Salamence with, such as Sludge Bomb or Return. That way, Salamence can still easily take out that Venusaur. However, Dugtrio is the main reason to preserve Air Balloon. If my opponent has a Dugtrio, I try not to switch into Grass-type moves, because this just turns the match into a guessing move whether or not Dugtrio is going to switch in.
Starmie @ Leftovers
Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Hydro Pump
- Rapid Spin
Any hail team with both Abomasnow and Kyurem needs a Rapid Spinner, and Starmie is mine. Starmie is arguably the best offensive Rapid Spinner in the current metagame, and also was the only one I considered for this position other than TechniTop. Starmie can easily force out a number of , as it outspeeds a lot while also threatening to KO. That way, it can Rapid Spin while they switch. Starmie also double-functions as my revenge killler. It's simply fast enough to outspeed almost anything that doesn't increase its Speed, and has great coverage to abuse that. The only common that outspeeds Starmie is Jolteon, and I have no problem with Jolteon thanks to Abomasnow and Kyurem.
The moveset is quite simple, using the Life Orb set with Blizzard instead of Ice Beam and Leftovers for more longetivety. Blizzard is obvious because this is a hail team, and Leftovers is also pretty much a necessity because Starmie is so important. Losing 16% every turn lets Starmie only live for 7 turns maximum, which is way too short in my opinion. Losing the power of Life Orb is also made up for by using Hydro Pump instead of Surf, letting me still KO the things I want to.
Scizor (M) @ Choice Band
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 4 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Bullet Punch
This guy is my glue. It fixes various weaknesses I experienced before when I had another Blizzard spammer in this spot. Reuniclus, Latios, and Terrakion are countered by Scizor, among others. It also keeps the momentum on my side, as not much can OHKO this, it is also a decent lead to U-turn with when I see that my opponent has a Tyranitar or something similar Heatran does not like to be matched up with. Scizor also provides some cool resists and priority, which is always useful. It also is my general switch for blind switch for these reasons, as well as the fact that it can always U-turn out of something.
Scizor also provides my secondary check to every Life Orb sweeper, or those with Close Combat. If, for example, a Lucario manages to set up while my Salamence is gone, I'm in big trouble. Therefore, I try to let Lucario fire off some attacks, preferably Close Combats, to take Life Orb damage and lower its defenses, bringing it in Bullet Punch range despite the resistance. The same goes for Cloyster, Venusaur, Infernape, and a lot of others.
The EV spread might seem a little odd, as 4 Speed EVs are usually considered more important than 4 Special Defense EVs, which are fairly insignificant. However, in my opinion this spread is more useful than the standard spread. The only thing I lose out on outspeeding with 4 less EVs is opposing Choice Band Scizor. This lets me U-Turn after they do in case of a mirror matchup, letting me keep the momentum on my side.
Salamence (M) @ Leftovers
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SAtk / 252 Spd
Naive Nature (+Spd, -SDef)
- Dragon Dance
- Fire Blast
Salamence is one of my favorite on the team. It does a lot of things, including being my backup check to both sun and rain teams. It also is my main counter to Fighting-types such as Lucario, as they otherwise could sweep my team clean with just Close Combat and ExtremeSpeed. Finally, Salamence lets me use an excellent Double Dragon strategy with Kyurem and Salamence. One of Kyurem's few reliable switchins is Bronzong, and it also is one of the common switchins into Salamence. If I can sacrifice one of my Dragons to hit it with a Focus Blast or a Fire Blast twice, I can usually sweep their team clean.
Salamence is also an excellent sweeper by itself. It threatens both offense and stall teams because the Speed boost from Dragon Dance lets it outspeed almost anything on offense teams, while nothing can reliably take both boosted Outrages and Earthquake. Stall teams, on the other hand, are mostly threatened by the Attack boost from Dragon Dance. Not a lot of walls can take both +1 Outrage and +1 Earthquake, and those that do (Skarmory, Bronzong), quite easily fall to a strong Fire Blast.
I've been changing between Life Orb and Leftovers some time before finally deciding on Leftovers. Running Life Orb really made Salamence die too fast, and that left me open to Lucario sweeps. 16% damage per turn also means that if I can't manage to spin away Stealth Rock before Salamence comes in, I only get 5 turns to set up and sweep, letting me rarely sweep a team. Outrage and Dragon Claw was also a tough decision. Outrage provided far more raw power, but Dragon Claw provided more survivability. This was also useful when people tried to lock me in Outrage by sending out Dragonite, and then immediately switchin to Ferrothorn. With Dragon Claw, I had no problem of trying to predict a switch or not. However, without Life Orb, I simply needed the power of Outrage.
Hi, got the request. Now, this is a very solid team and you do a great job covering most threats. The one Pokemon that can rampage through your team is DD Scrafty, who can get in a DD against Abomasnow and proceed to wreak havoc. The only Pokemon that it does not outspeed at +1 is Starmie, who wont OHKO with Hydro Pump and is OHKOed in return by Crunch. For this reason, I suggest swapping DD Mence for a Sub DD Gyarados, who can Intimidate Scrafty, wall it, set up itself, and threaten with Bounce. It also ensures you don't open up a weakness to the likes of Lucario. The loss of Double Dragons hurts, but Gyarados can very much fulfill the role of the second "dragon". Substitute should obviously be used conservatively, but can protect Gyara from annoying status.
I would also probably go with Quick Attack over Pursuit on Scizor. Most of the targets of Pursuit, such as Starmie, Celebi, and Latias, don't pose that great a threat to your team. Gyarados that carry Stone Edge, however, can prove problematic, as Starmie is your only chance to defeat it. Should Starmie go down, you still have a way to wear down Gyarados without relying on a Stone Edge miss. Finally, Starmie is probably the second most valuable member of your team behind Abomasnow. As Leftovers recovery is cancelled out, it would be a shame if it succumbed to Toxic Spikes damage or something. Blizzard is great for a late game sweep. But you already have enough Pokemon who can take out Dragons, Grass-types, and such. Hydro Pump and Thunderbolt provide excellent coverage already, so using Recover in place of Blizzard could go a long way. Especially when keeping Stealth Rock off the field is so important for a Hail team.
First issue I see with this team is your Starmie. The problem with this set is the lack of recovery and hazards will wear this team down very fast since your starmie can't last long with this set. Plus, I suggest changing her spread to EVs: 168 HP / 108 SAtk / 232 Spd. The given EVs allows you to get minimal stealth rock damage, the speed allows you to outrun scrafty after a dd (you can bump it to max if you feel like speed ties with another starmies and raikous are important). Also helps switching on things like Terrakion's Close Combat. The remain EVs are bumped into Special Attack. Also I agree on Recover > Blizzard and I would use Scald > Hydro Pump first change is to keep starmie healthy because you will need her alot. Scald is for try getting timed burns on things like Tyranitar switch ins, Ferrothorn switch ins, awlays a plus.
I think you're overrating the air baloon on heatran. Its main prupose is check dragons, wich you already have enough cover. Ice Shard on Aboma, Bullet on Scizor helps, 2 Steels, Intimidate... yeah, its not that of a huge issue. In counterpart things like Tornadus will run rampant against this team if he gets a grip since your only hurricane switch is heatran wich has no special defense investiment, same draco meteors from latios (though scizor can pursuit this one, you must avoid hp fires though) and hydreigon. You mentioned the air baloon is for dugtrio as well, but your main boys against sun is salamence and kyurem, wich can run rampant against sun, as you can protect heatran from dugtrio until you really need to use him for check something. regardless of the baloon, sun will be a hard matchup though (as it is for any hail team). So a special defense set will help you better. Change you Heatran to 252 HP | 4 SAtk | 252 SDef with a Calm Nature, Lava Plume, Protect, Stealth Rock, Roar.
Nice team, and good luck.
Hey, Tomohawk, nice team you've got here, man.
The main real issue I see with the team is that you suffer significantly from the presence of strong Rock-types like Terrakion, which can basically just shit Stone Edges against your entire team. The offensive nature of your team helps remedy this to an extent, but isn't perfect in this regard, as CBTerak and friends basically get a free KO every time they switch in. In a similar vein, as NWO mentioned, strong fighting-types, especially those with Ice- or Rock-type coverage moves can basically tear this team apart, with your only real method of stopping them being to pivot in with Mence for the intimidate, before immediately switching out.
An immediate solution for these problems would be to use Recover > Blizzard on Starmie, since it really needs the longevity and you handle basically all the common Ice-weaks in the meta really well. Another possibly useful change would be to switch your Salamence to a bulkier variant, with Roost > Fire Blast, since the majority of your team handles Ferrothorn and Skarmory easily. You could also invest a bit in Mence's HP, since the extra power isn't too important, considering how fast residual damage wracks up against most teams thanks to Hail, and the benefits of having a more durable switch-in to Fighting-types is a huge boon.
Great team, good luck!
Yeah, as others have pointed out you're pretty weak to fighting mons, Terrakion and Conkeldurr in particular. While this is an offensive minded team I think that a standard defensive SD Gliscor over Salamence might help you to deal with the above threats and some others as well (Breloom among the others) while not twisting too much the concept of your team. An impish Gliscor with taunt or protect\EQ\swords dance\ice fang or facade and an EV spread of 252 HP / 184 Def / 72 Spe is what I'm suggesting. I'm listing protect as an option just for those annoying volt turn teams that are invading the ladder (fuck you Ojama). Gliscor would also give you a backup plan against Scizor, should you lose Heatran prematurely.
Another option, as the above pointed out, would be making Salamence bulky, giving it roost and a more defensive EV spread but I'm not sure how effective it would be against Terrakion and probably even Conk.
I really like this team as it shows that hail offense is an underrated, yet effective playstyle in OU. Good luck with the team.
Awesome team man :)
Really the only threat that stands out to me is Volcarona. In particular the bulky rest/morning sun versions. Volcarona has no problems setting up on Scizor, Abomasnow, Starmie in the Sun, and even Heatran. Heatran seems to be your go to check but if the Volcarona is one of the variants above all your Heatran can do is pray for a crit as Volc sets up. Your next check is Salamence, who of course can deal some serious damage. Unfortunately bulky restorative variants can fish for the Flame Body burn hax, and then continue destroying. So my suggestion is run Roar on Heatran over HP Ice, this will however make it harder for him to kill Dragons but I think Scizor does an ok job of that already.
I definitely second trying NWO's Sub DD Gyarados because, with no Sun, he provides a much better check to Volcarona, while still serving as very similar poke' to Salamence.
I remember you showed me a first draft of this team (the Nidoking one) and it was a pretty good team back then, but it turned out even better now, so good job on that!
Kyurem is a very underrated, yet very effective anti-metagame poke and your team supports it well.
Personally I wouldn't change a single poke on your team. Yes, there are some weaknesses (relatively small though) but replacing certain pokes will only end up in a weakness to something else. Since this is an offensive team you'll need to focus on keeping an offensive momentum rather then to be able to counter everything you're weak to. But the "smaller" suggestions you got so far are definitely worth the shot, Recover on Starmie is a good option and I can see it work out well for your team. And if you want to go with the Gyarados-suggestion then I suggest Taunt > Substitute to handle stall better, which was on the the reasons you used Salamence in the first place. Taunt should still guard Gyarados from status so you won't lose out on much anyway. As far as other options go, Psyshock is a useful move on Starmie as well, being able to hit Fighting-types and stuff as CM Virizion and Gastrodon much harder, or Giga Drain on Abomasnow so you can switch into Water-types without fearing a Scald burn as much as well as having some form of additional recovery.
Not much else to say as the team looks good as it is, good luck!
I procrastinated on rating this team and everybody stole my rate :( Of course I also don't want you to think that I blew your VM off, so the one thing I can say is that Psychic on Starmie would really help you ought in dealing with Psychic types. Toxicroak, Virizion, Conkeldurr and Mienshao would really take a lot from them, which can make the difference if they don't have any residual damage. I also want to emphasize that recovery moves on Starmie and Salamence would really help you out there. Good luck, sorry for being extremely unhelpful!
your snowman fails to outspeed CB scizors (standard) try this spread 140 att | 188 sp att | 180 speed
Adamant Scizor 8 Spe EVs reaches 168 (Standard CB spread)
I'm not sure what you think is standard but CB Scizor has
248 HP/252 Atk/8 Spe
Anyway exellent team man,
I too am enjoying the wonders of EBelt Aboma after seeing the limitations of CB.
I'm not sure how valuable Protect is too you on Aboma (aside from the BP or U-turn scenario) but I've found EQ to be just as/even more useful for those Nintales/Heatran (and to a lesser extent) Magnezone switches.
Everything else concerining Starmie and Mence has already been said to death so Good Luck Tomahawk9.
Excellent team man, you've done an excellent job covering majority of the threats. Fighting types do hit this team hard and are problematic. To fix this situation I would suggest you to replace Salamence for Choice Scarf Landorus. Your team desperately needs a scarfed mon and Landorus does a good job putting pressure on opposing teams. It is an effective revenge killer and an amazing late-game sweeper. Landorus also provides you insurance against Sun, Rain and Sand teams better than Salamence. Landorus handles DD Scarfty, resists electric moves (avoids para vs rain teams) which gives him more advantage over Salamence. This set is pretty straight forward and will fit effectively in your team. Earthquake, U-turn, and Stone Edge are there for obvious reasons, Hammer Arm decimates Scarfty and Air Balloon trans. Landorus eliminates your 3/6 rock weakness which is a bonus!
I agree with the above raters to give Abomasnow Giga Drain over Wood Hammer. Wood Hammer isn't doing much for you except for making your survivability less. Giga Drain provides you with some sort of recovery which could be the key to win many weather wars. Hail and entry hazard damage could easily wear down your current Starmie with no problem. Recover over Blizzard allows you to survive longer and support your team mates. Good Luck!
@Smith: Thanks for the rate, Psychic is definitely useful on Starmie for those mons you mentioned, I'll try it. Same for recovery moves on Starmie and Salamence.
@Sour: Protect is very useful both for scouting (Scizor) and racking up hail damage, but I'll definitely give Earthquake a try for the reasons you mentioned, thanks!
@mostwanted: Scarf Landorus sounds like a cool set for handling Scrafty and others. Having a Scarfer and a U-turner to pair with Scizor also sounds cool, though losing Salamence is unfortunate. I'll definitely give it a try, thanks for the rate!
Just pointing out that i see this team every day on the ladder since this RMT was made -_-
yeah, thats true this team is getting so much ripped.
grats on the work you did here, this is a perfect anti metagame team as it has a lot of power and ways to annihilate the most used treaths in the mg.
i havent any suggestion right now, this team looks so synergic and well working.
gl using the team
Great team, Tomahawk! Although this is an offensive team, I think it's weakness to Terrakion is major; it's not okay if a Scarf Terrakion can potentially spam Stone-Edge and pick off your team one Pokemon at a time. I really think what this team needs is some solid Rock resist to complement with the stellar Fighting-type resist from Intimidate Salamence.
Since I want you to keep the Dual Dragon core intact, Salamence & Kyurem should stay. Abomasnow is necessary for facilitating Kyurem's offense, and Heatran provides crucial resistances to this team. I think Starmie & Scizor can be replaced for something that can stomach a Stone Edge. I am leaning towards replacing Scizor, since Starmie's Natural Cure can come in handy against Scald users, as well as its useful Speed.
I believe that either Conkeldurr or Metagross can really provide this team with that much needed Rock resistance while maintaining the offensive pressure. Neither of them just don't take hits, but they also have priority to pick off Terrakion, similarly to Scizor. If you go with Conkeldurr, the Bulk Up set is the safest bet. Metagross can probably work well as an all-out Attacker @ Leftovers. After an Attack boost from Meteor Mash, very little can stomache Metagross's onslaught. Admittedly you lose out on Scizor's powerful Bullet Punch and U-turn, but I believe the Terrakion coverage provided by either of these power houses makes up for it.
Metagross @ Leftovers | Clear Body
Adamant | 216 HP / 252 Atk / 40 Spe
Meteor Mash | Hammer Arm | Zen Headbutt / Ice Punch | Bullet Punch
Sorry for the late rate, but I hope you find it helpful.
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