Counter that Uber Pokémon - MkII
Counter that Uber Pokémon!
Hi guys, this is Poppy, reporting for duty! I'm going to make this short. Since the last thread has become a total mess,Used Pokemon List
To make things easier for all of us, I have went through the entire thread and summed up how many times each Pokemon was used. Sure, it may not contain all the sets, but if you must use a Pokemon that was used many times before, atleast bring an unorthodox set.-----------------------
Jirachi @ Leftovers
Trait: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 HP / 40 Def / 216 SDef
Careful Nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
- Iron Head
- Body Slam
The best Deo-A can do to Jirachi is Superpower, which does 181-214 (44.8 - 52.97%) and 121-143 (29.95 - 35.39%) at -1. This means Jirachi can Wish and heal itself without dying and then proceed to kill Deo-A with Iron Head/Body Slam.
Groudon @ Leftovers
EVs: 248 HP / 216 Atk / 46 SDef
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Swords Dance
- Stone Edge
- Thunder Wave
There is nothing Jirachi can do to scare Groudon off, even the paralysis doesnt really matter while we can spread paralysis with TW and smack down the defensive core with a +2 EQ with the help of some EH.
Kyogre @ Leftovers
EVs: 252 HP / 240 Def / 4 SpA / 8 Spe
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Calm Mind
- Sleep Talk
This Kyogre is physically defensive so it doesn't fear unboosted assaults from Groudon, it outspeeds without being paralyzed and can strike hard with a rain-boosted scalding Scald. Kyogre can Rest off paralysis and damage done by Groudon as well.
Guys, I am just posting to say: two sentences is not enough. Write a paragraph, in which you explain briefly how it counters the former, EVs and Item, moveset, and if you'd like - a possible teammate.
Thanks, and keep this thread top-quality.
The next poster, please counter Manapheee's Pokemon.
Giratina @ Leftovers
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SDef
Careful Nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
~ Dragon Tail
~ Will-O-Wisp / Roar
~ Sleep Talk
Giratina is fully capable of stalling Kyogre till it faints. Above Kyogre literally can't touch this mon with any move not named Ice Beam. Giratina is an excellent spin blocker and special defensive mon. With the EVs and nature listed, Giratina can easily survive +6 Scald from the Kyogre. This in conjunction with Pressure allows Giratina to stall out Kyogre's every single move or roar / dragon tail it out. Dragon Tail phazes, damages things, and is generally a nice move to have on Giratina. Roar is good to have while facing a mon behind substitute, while Will-O-Wisp cripples physical attackers and does residual damage. Rest and Sleep talk are self explainatory. Blissey, Chansey, Forretress, Lugia, Groudon, Ferrothorn and Skarmory are great teammates and work well for this set.
Heatran @ Leftovers
Trait: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 128 SpD / 128 Spe
Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
~ Toxic / Roar
~ Flamethrower / Lava Plume
I think this is probably one of the best, if not the best counter to this Giratina set. As long as it won't switch directly on Dragon Tail, it will easily win 1vs1 stalling war against this Giratina set. It's recommended to switch into anything except Dragon Tail and use Substitute after, as smart opponent will try to outsmart you and use Dragon Tail while you try to use Taunt or Toxic. For first thanks to Flash Fire it easily absorbs Giratina Will-O-Wisp, while also boosting the power of his fire attacks. While those attacks won't seriously hurt Giratina anytime soon, it will help to wear Giratina a bit faster allowing to save some PP and time for later. For second it has Taunt - Taunt is perfect anti-stall skill, which automatically stops opponent from using any non-damage skills, in case of this Giratina it pretty much means every single skill except Dragon Tail. In other words as long as you have Substitute, you will always win. The choice between Toxic or Roar depends on one thing - if your team runs Toxic Spikes or not. If you don't run Toxic Spikes - go with Toxic, as it will allow you to pretty much Toxic stall this Giratina to death, while keeping her from healing with Taunt. If you run them - go with Roar, as it's utility with entry hazards on field is incredible. There is always a possibility to go with Roar without Toxic Spikes, hoping for lucky burn from Lava Plume, but it's not recommended to do. Choice between Flamethrower and Lava Plume depends on situation if you want a bit more power or try to abuse this burn chance on switch against certain targets if you think that using it on switch will be more beneficial then Toxic in some certain situations. Those EVs at first may not make any sense taking into account Dragon Tail is physical, but they are enough to make sure Giratina won't break a substitute, while Heatran's typing is way better at taking special hits then physical ones. 128 Speed EVs are enough to outspeed 90 base Speed Pokemon which don't invest in speed at all, which also means the Giratina this set counters.
252 HP/ 4 SpA/ 252 Spe
-Ice Beam / Grass Knot
This thing takes nothing from every move that Heatran carries (barring roar with 3 layers of spikes and SR which is slightly negated by rain rest) so it can easily scald its substitute into oblivion and force a switch. If Heatran lacks Roar, Manaphy sets up on it fearing little in return as it will only be revenge killed by Choice Scarf Zekrom :D and can easily break stall / sweep. Sadly, even at +6 Manaphy's Special Attack is a bit underwhelming, as it is incapable of 2HKOing the likes of Specially Defensive Gira-a with a Scald, so Ice Beam can be used to achieve that 2HKO. However, without Grass Knot you lack a way to beat CM Kyogre.
Ground Arceus and Ferrothorn can easily stop Scarf Zekrom without changing the weather and both can annoy Kyogre with powerful physical moves, the former capable of OHKOing Kyogre after a Swords Dance. Kyogre is near manadatory to provide essential rain support. Lastly, Wobbufet may be a bit useful to start the Calm Minds if you find it difficult to start and easily revenge kills Zekrom, but cannot switch into the face of a Bolt Strike iirc.
Electric Arceus @ Zap Plate
- Ice Beam
- Calm Mind
Electric Arceus can switch into anything Manaphy has to offer, boost up, then proceed to annihilate Manaphy with Thunder. The HP helps it take Scald more easily (burns are annoying though), and Ice Beam gives standard coverage. Arceus eventually wins the CM war, barring a crit.
Dialga @ Leftovers
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SDef
Careful Nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
- Bulk Up
- Sleep Talk
Takes almost nothing from either Thunder or un-STABed Ice Beam, and set up with Bulk Up or do huge damage with Outrage. Rest + Sleep Talk provides recovery, and even +1 Thunder will not 3HKO, so two Sleep Talked Rests in a row won't bother Dialga.
Arceus-Ground @ Earth Plate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SAtk
Bold Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- Calm Mind
- Ice Beam
Ground Arceus is less common, and not for a good reason! He counters both Dialga, Rayquaza and Zekrom, who are huge threats in Ubers. This set takes 35.81% - 42.12% from a +1 Outrage, and strikes back with Judgment which does 54.21% - 64.6%. As Dialga rests, Arceus can proceed and set up Calm Minds, powering up his Special Attacking, thus making Judgment and Ice Beam stronger. Ground Arceus can also Recover the damage He has taken off. Ice Beam grants amazing coverage with Judgment, hitting Flying- and Grass-types from super effective damage. The EV spread is pretty straightforward; maximizing HP and Defense for maximum physically defensive bulk, and the rest is dumped in Special Attack.
sorry about that~ all fixed!
WHAT KIND OF GROUNDCEUS IS NOT RUNNING A SWORDS DANCE SET, ASDF. Still looks like an epic set though can't wait to try it.
Arceus-Psychic@ Psychic Plate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Spe / 4 SpA
Timid Nature (+Spe, - Atk)
- Calm Mind
- Focus Blast
Calm Mind Psychic Arceus is the boss of Calm Mind wars. Thanks to its great bulk and Recover, (UNLIKE MEWTWO COUGH *COUGH) it can easily catch a few Calm Minds, and it gets decent coverage with its main STAB with Focus Blast. Psyshock gets STAB and hits Groundceus's weaker defense stat so it can easily defeat Groundceus after the two get into a Calm Mind war, which is easier then it sounds since Psychic Arceus outspeeds Furai's Groundceus (why can't Psychicceus sound cooler :().
Psychic Arceus also makes a fantastic late game sweeper since it can beat down Blissey without Refresh (and after a Calm Mind or two) while maintaining good enough bulk and speed to not be revenged by anything barring Choice Scarfed mons who struggle to deal enough damage to Psychic Arceus after the Calm Mind boosts anyway (Choice Scarf Zekrom fails to OHKO).
@title, Mach 2? You mean, twice the speed of sound? You sure its not Mark 2? :P
Anyways, variation of Great Wall Lugia beats that
Lugia @ Leftovers
252 HP / 252 Def/ 4 SpD
-Whirlwind / Dragon Tail
Lugia already has amazing 106 HP / 130 Def, and 4x resists Focus Blast, so without several Calm Minds, Arceus won't even make a scratch. Even with the SR weakness, Roost more than makes up for it. Toxic is so that, if Arceus tries to set up CM's on Lugia, it will be taking a lot of residual damage, even with Recover. You might be asking "why the hell use Light Screen over Reflect?" Well, for some odd reason, Psyshock is affected by Light Screen, not Reflect. Don't ask me, I don't know. Finally, if Arceus gets too set up, Whirlwind or Dragon Tail him away and make him set up again with his newly acquired Toxic.
252 hp / 252 spdef
also: try not to use kyogre when countering this
Reshiram @ Life Orb
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Flame Charge
- Blue Flare
- Draco Meteor
- Hidden Power [Rock] / Substitute / Dragon Pulse
Turboblaze lets it crash through Heatrans Flash Fire so it can get either incinerate tran with Blue Flare, go for the Draco Meteor on the predicted switch, or it can be a troll and Substitute to ease prediction.
A great late game cleaner for sun teams, it has little to no problem cleaning up after Scarfed Palkias killed and Substitute lets it hit Kyogre HARD 2HKOing Scarf variants and is capable of OHKOing the same Kyogre after Stealth Rocks and always OHKOes that Kyogre after rocks and spikes. Hidden Power Rock may sound odd but it lets it break through Ho-oh without having to resort to Draco Meteor. Modest and Life Orb are chosen to provide maximum power and allow it to 2HKO the likes of Blissey in the Sun with a Blue Flare with Stealth Rocks. Leftovers can be used with Substitute but you lose a lot of power.
tyranitar @ leftovers
evs: 252 hp / 76 atk/ 180 spdef
-low kick / superpower
-fire blast / stone edge
it tanks any hit (lo dm doesn't even 3hko!) and proceeds to hit back with a strong crunch or stone edge. the ev spread is chosen from the ubers analysis and it allows tyranitar to tank basically any special hit (i'm looking at you, aura sphere mewtwo) and attack back. additionally, it can trap stuff such as giratina-o (though not giratina, sadly) which allows you to spin easily. the main problem with this is that kyogre and groudon comes in for basically free though the former fears crunch to an extent and groudon fears fire blast to an extent.
Hippowdon @ Leftovers
Trait: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature (+Def, -SpA)
~ Slack Off
~ Toxic / Stealth Rock / Ice Fang
This is a really good answer against this Tyranitar set. Switches on everything it can dish out and Slack Off easily any damage it can deal back. While for many people Hippowdon may be outclassed by Groudon - it's not totally true (as Groudon have in overall better statistic though). For first, instant recovery this set provides is massive advantage over Groudon, as this allows him to stay much longer on battlefield while taking some good beating. Groudon to do the same needs Wish support or go with risky (especially this generation) RestTalk, which unlike in previous generations cancels out previous turns of sleep with each switch-out, making it unrelible unless Groudon can wall certain targets for at least 2 turns before being able to recover again. To summarize - Groudon is much easier to wear out with repetitive hits and actually that Tyranitar set has ability to hit decently hard Groudon with Fire Blast boosted by sun on switch. And another thing is that Hippowdon provides different permanent weather allowing new teammates to be viable on your team (like offensive Excadrill) which otherwise wouldn't work.
If possible - don't use Kyogre or Manaphy to counter this set.
move 1: Reflect
move 2: Light Screen
move 3: Roost
move 4: Toxic / U-Turn
item: Light Clay / Leftovers
ability: Magic Bounce
evs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe
OK this thing sets up screens all over Hippowdon regardless of the move spread it runs. Hippowdon can't even set up Stealth Rocks infront of this thing due to its ability, Magic Bounce. Xatu can then Toxic Hippowdon and slowly kill the thing or it can U-turn out to a special attacker, alternating between screens and that will insure something gets in freely. Also scouts switch-ins that want to come into this thing.
Teams that hate Ferrothorn and Forretress in particular, love Xatu. It walls both of them and can set up screens to take advantage of the time it stays in since they can not fling hazards as they are reflected. EV's maximize bulk to take the absolute least from Physical Attacks. Also can wall a lot of common Stealth Rock set uppers like Dialga and Groudon if one can predict properly.
Zekrom @ Choice Scarf
EVs: 64 HP / 252 Atk / 192 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Bolt Strike
- Dragon Claw
- Volt Switch
Zekrom has the ability to OHKO Xatu with Bolt Strike even through reflect provided Xatu has taken a bit of residual damage.
252Atk Teravolt Zekrom (+Atk) Bolt Strike vs 252HP/252Def Leftovers Xatu (+Def) behind a Reflect: 70% - 83% (236 - 278 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.
If Xatu decides to use light screen first bolt strike is a guaranteed OHKO. Zekrom can use volt switch to gain momentum for the team if Xatu switces to a non-ground type pokemon such as ferrothorn. The speed evs are enough to outspeed mewtwo and below. Max attack is to deal as much damage as possible and the rest are thrown into HP to slightly increase its bulk.
P.S. Sorry if i have not been able to make myself clear. This is only my second post ever on any forum.
steelix @ leftovers
evs: 252 hp / 96 def / 160 spdef
-toxic / earthquake
steelix is basically THE counter to all physical forms of Zekrom. it takes barely anything from outrage, and takes even less from dragon claw and the other moves. additionally, it actually beats stuff like lugia pretty handily and can be used in a pinch as a last resort check to basically any physical pokemon (stuff like sd arceus' +2 eq doesn't ohko so you can toxic it) and it can basically switch into most dragon moves and set up stealth rock or phaze.
That sounds like something trickroom would say, WHERE is he anyway :(.
EVs: 252 HP / 80 SpD / 176 Spe
- Will-O-Wisp / Reflect / Substitute / Psystrike (only use reflect and sub if Toxic Spike support is availiable)
- Light Screen / Substitute / Psystrike(only use Sub if you can provide Toxic Spike support)
This basically screams boss to everyone. It basically sets up Dual Screens or Psuedo-dual screens while being able to sneak up some passive damage with Will-o-Wisp. Its an absolute terror for a stall since it easily passes burn around and can troll all. Taunt prevents stall from setting up hazards, boosting, and recovering. Light Screen and Will-o-wisp provide dual screen support while sneaking some residual damage in. If you can provide Toxic Spike support, you can go for the more accurate Reflect (lol) that also provides team support. Substitute prevents you from being phazed by Dragon Tail and lets you beat the likes of Kyogre trying to use Water Spout and can be used over either "screen". Lastly, Recover is reliable recovery without any drawbacks.
Steelix not only fails to touch this, it gets pp stalled if Mewtwo has Substitute and automatically fails to do anything if Mewtwo has WoW. Mewtwo's niche outside of stopping Steelix is breaking stall while being a decent defensive pivot and dual screener.
Evs allow the outspeeding of all Arcei so that it can stop Calm Mind and Swords Dance variants from setting up too much and then proceeding to lower the amount of damage they can do back with a "screen"
^Well this is easy.
Timid / Modest
EVs: 252 SpA/ 4 SpD/ 252 Spe
-Hidden Power (Ice)
Come in on 3 of that Mewtwo's moves, Taunt it, and watch as it literally can not do anything. At all. Even if it does come in on Taunt, the only thing Mewtwo can actually do to it is give it a burn before Taunt wears off. Even with Light Screen, Thunder will do a lot of damage in the Rain, despite Thundurus having low SpA (by Ubers standards).
EDIT: something besides Blissey/ Chansey as a counter, maybe?
Okay, to counter Thundurus
@ Life Orb / Focus Sash
252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Icicle Crash / Endeavour
Substitute / Stealth Rock
Taking only neutral damage at best from Thundurus it can switch into it in the absence of hammer arm / grass knot and bring it down with a powerful Ice Shard, or set up Stealth Rock on the switch. Mamoswine is also immune to Thunder Wave, so doesn't fear paralysis. Mamoswine's dual stabs allow him to vanquish some of the greatest threats in Ubers: Lugia, Giratina-A, Groudon are all weak to its powerful Ice STAB, and Ferrothorn is 2HKO'd by Life Orb Earthquake when running a specially defensive spread. The most powerful boosting dragon in the game, Rayquaza, won't get far when Mamoswine's Ice Shard is waiting in the wings.
Arceus-Ghost @Spooky Plate
252 HP / 252 Def/ 4 SDef
--Roar/ Calm Mind/ Focus Blast
Immune to endeavor. One of the better physically defensive Arceus-formes and doesn't take too much from EQ/Icicle Crash. Judgment breaks all of Mamo's subs and is a decent STAB attack. WoW crushes Mamo's offensive potential and is a general help against all physical attackers. The last slot is filler. Roar helps it serve its defensive potential and just phaze out powerful physical threats such as Rayquaza. Calm Mind gives Arc-Ghost an opportunity to be offensive. Focus Blast lets it hit Steels and Darks, namely Ferrothorn, Darkrai, and Dialga and provides utility to the team overall.
Ho-Oh @ Leftovers
EVs: 192 HP / 216 Atk / 24 Spe / 76 SDef
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Light Screen / Brave Bird
- Sacred Fire
OK so this is a really large alteration of Sub-Ho-oh, better suited to take on threatening Special Attackers. If Ghostceus is using Roar, it can spam Sacred Fire on it till its burned, and then have some special attacker remove it from play. If its using Calm Mind, it gets phazed by Ho-oh's Whirlwind and its attacks tickle after a Light Screen. Focus Miss being used really does neither lol so it doesn't fear much :D and can just burn the thing (or pp stall).
This thing also has the unique niche of acting like a Special tank on sun teams, capable of shoving off Draco Meteors before Stealth Rocks are up and then proceeding to retaliate with a Sacred Fire, Brave Bird, or just Roost. Also counters Darkrai as even a +4 Dark Pulse fails to OHKO while it OHKOes in return with a Sacred Fire.
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