Base Stats: 85 | 105 | 85 | 40 | 50 | 40
Abilities: Guts / Sheer Force / Iron Fist
Well, we're here to discuss Gurdurr, which in my opinion is simply the most solid and reliable Pokemon in NU. Ignore the base stats at the top; they don't do Trollface here any justice, especially when backed by Eviolite. Gurdurr plays exactly the same as his big brother: a very powerful boosting tank of a Pokemon that can easily take hits and dish them out.
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Att / 4 Def
- Bulk Up
- Drain Punch
- Mach Punch
- Ice Punch / Payback
This is Gurdurr's bread-and-butter set, that can slice straight through our beloved metagame. Bulk Up is the perfect setup move for Gurdurr, as it allows it boost its Attack to tremendous levels. Gurdurr doesn't need to limit himself to one Bulk Up though, it will often manage to nab two or three. Drain Punch and Mach Punch are both STAB moves that provide tremendous utility: Drain Punch gives a very solid hit on the opponent and restores Gurdurr's HP in the process, whereas Mach Punch allows Gurdurr to pick off faster opponents. For example, if Gurdurr has nabbed a Bulk Up boost, and a Sawk comes in, wanting to Close Combat Gurdurr, Gurdurr can Drain Punch on the first turn, restoring much of its HP in the process and then pick off Sawk with Mach Punch, thus avoiding another Close Combat. Mach Punch also allows Gurdurr to revenge kill powerful offensive behemoths such as Sawsbuck, Cinccino and Absol. Speaking of Absol, Gurdurr is probably the best counter available to it, since it only fears the rare SD boosted Psycho Cut (and can circumvent this with Mach Punch). Stone Edge lets Gurdurr smack around the incredibly annoying Rotom-S, as it can comfortably survive an Air Slash. Payback is also a fine option, as it lets Gurdurr comfortably defeat Misdreavus. However, it's been nerfed from last gen, and no longer has doubled powe on incoming foes. It also remains at 50 BP when facing Pokemon such as Musharna and Duosion, which is simply horrible.
An alternate EV spread is useable; however I find that max Attack benefits Gurdurr a lot more, since it's too weak without a boost, and even after a Bulk Up its power is less than magnificent. I suppose it has some utility when facing powerful special attackers such as Magmortar, but the max Attack set can easily take it on even if it doesn't have a Bulk Up under its belt. Fire Blast will do around 70%, and Gurdurr can follow up with the Drain-Mach Punch combo. This Gurdurr set really appreciates teammates that can remove bulky Psychic-types. Pokemon such as Exeggutor, Musharna and Duosion can crap all over Gurdurr and take it out in one shot with a powerful Psychic. Dark-types therefore are brillinat partners for Gurdurr, as they can come in on Psychic with impunity. Skuntank and Absol are chief among these: Skuntank can guarantee the removal of these Pokemon with Taunt, Pursuit, Sucker Punch and Crunch, whereas Absol can easily shred through them or set up a Swords Dance for a sweep of its own. Gurdurr also has a lot of trouble with the extremely bulky Tangela. Magmortar is an excellent switchin to Tangela, thanks to Vital Spirit and a Grass-type resistance, and can keep offensive pressure with its nuclear Fire Blasts.
B2W2 Edit: Gurdurr has now gained access to the elemental punches, and RestTalk. Ice Punch provides fantastic coverage with Gurdurr's Fighting-type STAB, and is a more reliable move than Rock Slide or Stone Edge against Flying-types such as Rotom-S and Braviary. Not to mention it also hits Golurk super effectively, who could otherwise wall Gurdurr. Amoonguss can still handle Gurdurr very well, but it certainly doesn't enjoy facing a +1 Gurdurr with Sleep Clause active. Keep in mind that Gurdurr can also reliably check monstrous physical threats in Zangoose, Cinccino and Absol. Gurdurr not only has the power to KO them with Mach Punch after a tiny bit of residual damage, but it also has the bulk to actually switch in, something that few other Pokemon can boast. Just... keep it away from Zangoose's Facade. That hurts. On the plus side, Zangoose will continually weaken itself with Toxic Orb, thus providing the residual damage necessary for Gurdurr to OHKO with Mach Punch. The ability to take on another vicious anti-metagame Pokemon, Klang, is just a bonus. Another interesting thing to note is that Gurdurr now also has access to RestTalk. Great bulk, combined with the ability to hit 50% harder while asleep could be an interesting concept that I will have to try out. Drain Punch also provides reliable healing while asleep. Gurdurr could even go with a CroDurr set, forgoing Ice Punch and using Rest, Sleep Talk, Bulk Up and Drain Punch. A Pursuit user is required for this set though.
So go out and try Gurdurr! It's my favourite NU Pokemon, and can often take out 3 Pokemon in a match if played correctly. I'd also like some feedback on the SubPunch set, a set I've not personally tried out yet, but I hope one of you might have! Please share your experiences with Gurdurr, come up with teammates, other counters, etc.
I love Gurdurr. Really love it. Ever since I first got my hands on Conkeldurr and that amazing MachDrain combo, It's been my favorite Fighting-type.
Gurdurr is crazy useful in NU right now, as its Mach Punch is great for taking on so many top threats, such as Jynx, Sawsbuck, Cinccino, ect. A strong Fighting-type move is a great tool to have, as it breaks through those hardy walls that give a lot of Pokemon trouble, such as Probopass, Regirock, even Tangela (who is doing nothing to Gurdurr in return if you've sacced something to Sleep Powder). Sawk and Gurdurr are really the only viable Fighting-types in NU, sadly, and Gurdurr is so much more reliable than Sawk.
Although, when did we switch from the 252 HP / 252 SpD EV spread to the 252 HP / 252 Atk one?
Another thing I like about Gurdurr is how well it deals with status. Toxic Spikes are almost a liability for the opponent if you have Gurdurr on your team (switch it into a single layer to avoid toxic poisoning) but I haven't seen as many people using Toxic Spikes recently, for some reason.
Has anyone tried a Flame Orb set?
Gurdurr @ Flame Orb
252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
-Rock Slide / Stone Edge / Bulk Up
-Payback / Bulk Up
This set has great immediate power and an instant status immunity-which is cool for blocking Lovely Kisses and Sleep Powders. Gurdurr has the equivalent of an Attack stat of 508 once the Orb kicks in, and the powerful Drain Punch provides more than enough recovery to make up for the residual damage. It can also run Bulk Up in place of a coverage move. The only problem with this set is the lack of Eviolite, and bulk. Come to think of it, I think I might have run this set with some Speed EVs (taken out of HP) for beating certain threats.
A question for everyone. Which coverage move do you use on the Bulk Up set? Payback? Rock Slide? Stone Edge? I think that Payback's usefulness has been declining ever since the tier shifts (departure of Mesprit), and some Psychic-types, namely Musharna, Exeggutor, and kinda Gardevoir can beat it regardless of the coverage move. Does the extra power of Stone Edge make it a better choice than Rock Slide? Or does the awful PP and accuracy make Rock Slide the better choice?
Also, is the new 252 Atk spread more efficient overall than the 252 SpD spread? Do you find that it can still tank hits comfortably with 252 HP EVs and Eviolite?
Generally, I think that Stone Edge is always the better Rock-type move, simply because Gurdurr won't be flinching diddly-squat. The higher base power really makes a difference too against Pokemon such as Altaria.
The Flame Orb set is certainly interesting, but the lack of bulk means that Gurdurr will no longer be able to switch in and out so easily, ergo it won't pose as much of a threat. Gurdurr has the build of a tank, I'd leave the more offensive approach to Pokemon like Sawk, but I can't deny that the powerful Drain and Mach Punches without need for setup are something it has over its Karate brethren, and that DOES distinguish it.
Gurdurr really is great, ive been using it with a mixrott and scarfccino and it gets the best of everything that isnt exeggutor
Gurdurr is amazing. Its physical bulk is incredible, it has Guts, priority in Mach Punch, and is powerful itself. I'm starting to use it a lot more now.
The spread with 252 Attack EV's is much better than Special Defense, imo. It allows Gurdurr to actually be able to hurt stuff before it boosts. Gurdurr has little business trying to beat special threats anyways. A Mach Punch that can actually hurt stuff is useful as well, especially with all of the threats running around that are weak to it.
Basically, running 252 Attack EV's over Special Defense trades the ability to laugh at a lot of the special threats to actually be able to hurt stuff before you boost. It also helps you deal with physical attackers -- which are more common than special attackers in NU -- better.
The Flame Orb set looks pretty interesting, but part of what makes Gurdurr so great is the fact that it can tank lots of hits well. With Flame Orb, Gurdurr can't do that nearly as well. That's especially bad for a Pokemon that's as slow as Gurdurr, but at least it has a much stronger Mach Punch.
Lately I've been testing out SubPunch Gurdurr. I'm using Substitute / Focus Punch / Mach Punch / Rock Slide. So far it's pretty good; I wouldn't call it better than Bulk Up, but it's still useful. Focus Punch hits very hard, and Substitute is useful for scouting. I wish I could use Drain Punch on Gurdurr, but there isn't any room for it on the set. SubPunch will probably be better once Iron Fist is out. No one dears trying to status Gurdurr. The only problem is that now you can't just switch Gurdurr into status such as Misdreavus' Will-O-Wisp.
One Pokemon that Gurdurr will always have trouble with is Amoonguss (and Vileplume to a lesser extent).
http://www.smogon.com/download/sprites/bw/561.png VS. http://www.smogon.com/download/sprites/bw/621.png
252 Atk Gurdurr (+Atk) Drain Punch vs 252 HP/140 Def Amoonguss (+Def) : 13.66% - 16.2%
10-13 hits to KO (with Leftovers)
252 Atk Gurdurr (+Atk) Stone Edge vs 252 HP/140 Def Amoonguss (+Def) : 24.31% - 28.7%
5-6 hits to KO (with Leftovers)
0 SpAtk Amoonguss Giga Drain vs 252 HP/4 SpDef Eviolite Gurdurr: 21.93% - 25.94%
4-5 hits to KO
As you can see, Gurdurr isn't going to do too much to the Mushroom of Doom. Even if you've gotten Bulk Up boosts, Amoonguss can just use Clear Smog to nullify them. Drain Punch will be giving you negligible healing, so your recovery is practically gone as well. You also need to take in the extra healing Amoonguss will be getting from Giga Drain into account to really see how screwed Gurdurr is against one of these things. You'd think that Stone Edge beats Amoonguss one-on-one, but you have to remember that Gurdurr will not be recovering every turn, and Amoonguss will be (with Leftovers AND Giga Drain).
The only problem I've found with Amoonguss is that more often than not Effect Spore will activate and give Gurdurr an attack boost, but since Poison is also going to chip away at his health and Sleep is well...sleep, the only negative side effect would be Paralysis (which still isn't that difficult to deal with).
Amoonguss is hands-down the best Gurdurr counter in the tier. Hell, even if it couldn't wear Gurdurr down it could just put it to sleep with Spore.
http://www.smogon.com/download/sprites/bw/561.png VS. http://www.smogon.com/download/sprites/bw/45.png
252 Atk Gurdurr (+Atk) Drain Punch vs 252 HP/208 Def Vileplume (+Def) : 13.56% - 16.1%
10-14 hits to KO (with Leftovers)
252 Atk Gurdurr (+Atk) Stone Edge vs 252 HP/208 Def Vileplume (+Def) : 24.29% - 28.81%
5-6 hits to KO (with Leftovers)
48 SpAtk Vileplume Giga Drain vs 252 HP/4 SpDef Eviolite Gurdurr: 26.47% - 31.28%
4 hits to KO
For the most part, Vileplume shrugs off Gurdurr's attacks just as well as Amoonguss, and her main set has access to Moonlight, allowing her to have much more reliable recovery. Her Giga Drain is also fairly stronger (although it will still require multiple hits to kill Gurdurr). The problem is that she lacks Clear Smog, which means Gurdurr will be able to get a few boosts in. If she uses Sleep Powder instead of Moonlight, however, she can easily get most of Gurdurr's health with Giga Drain before she'll take any damage from him. Effect Spore can also kick in when you don't want it to, but usually it helps more than it hurts.
Flying Pokemon are great partners to Gurdurr because most of his counters are part Grass. Braviary, Swellow, and Rotom-S can all handle Grass Pokemon. Another odd teammate that some might not have thought of is Murkrow.
I'm just speculating, but Murkrow looks pretty damn good with Gurdurr. Its Dark typing allows it to nullify Psychic attacks aimed at Gurdurr, and its LO Attacker set has Brave Bird and Heat Wave, which do a number to Grass Pokemon. Another cool factor to take into consideration is Insomnia, which allows Murkrow a safe switch into any Sleep moves aimed at Gurdurr.
Gurdurr can also handle any Rock Pokemon in the tier that tries to come in on Murkrow.
Various Murkrow calcs:
So, GurKrow looks like it could be a decent combination. Check it out.
OK, I'm reviving this thread, since I'm appalled that such an incredible Pokemon has slipped to #51 in usage. It has to be updated anyway now that Gurdurr has access to the elemental punches and RestTalk.
Remind me, why is Gurdurr so low? APART from already being an absurdly solid Pokemon, you can use it to revenge kill 2 of the biggest threats in NU at the moment: Cinccino and Zangoose. These guys are ridiculously frail and will fall to an unboosted Mach Punch with a tiny bit of residual damage. Not to mention that Gurdurr certainly has the physical bulk to switch in as well.
If you don't really like the bulk up set, I encourage people to use knock off on gurdurr. Gurdurr can often wreck entire teams without bulk up once his specific counters have been delt with and knock off helps deal with all sorts of eviolite users that counter him such as misdreavus and tangela It can also remove choice bands on players that go straight to the point and switch-in braviary or golurk. Best of all is removing incoming exeguttor's berry. EV's can then be set to physcial defence making gurdurr pretty damn bulky on that side.
Blame it more on the hype than anything else. People are using the things they're excited about rather than the still-viable Pokemon they've already had plenty of experience with. Amoonguss still hard-counters Gurdurr and it's everywhere right now, so this also contributes to his fall in usage.
I'm not sure how good a RestTalk set is going to be. Frankly, I've never liked the strategy, and find it too luck-based to rely on. Elemental Punches are definitely cool though, although I'm not sure how much better they'd be over Stone Edge / Payback, which are already fantastic coverage options.
Also, in regards to my last post in this thread (so many months ago), I'd have to say that Vileplume probably can't do very well against Gurdurr anymore. Ice Punch would probably be too much for Vile to handle.
Before B2W2, I've never been a big fan of Gurdurr. Everytime I used it, it did nothing exceptional. But now, I decided to put it on one of my teams, and it is absolutely amazing. It can easily destroy teams and has saved me from many losses. Also, a lot of Amoonguss users are running Sludge Bomb over Clear Smog or Hidden Power over Clear Smog. Therefore, Gurdurr can now set up on Amoonguss for free. Ice Punch is probably the best option since it still hits Flying types super-effectively and it hits Grass types such as Amoonguss and Golurk super-effectively. Payback is pretty terrible considering its not even slower than Musharna and doesn't help against Poison types. I can't wait for Iron Fist to be released since Banded Gurdurr might actually be a very good revenge killer / wallbreaker.
Amoonguss takes 48.61% - 57.41% from a +1 Gurdurr Ice Punch, meaning it cannot switch in safely if Gurdurr has already set up. Even if it does come in before a boost, I'm pretty sure Gurdurr can still beat it if Amoonguss has already slept something. So yeah, Amoonguss is kind of a shaky counter to Gurdurr and I have no idea how its usage is so low. Don't even get me started on Alomomola; all it can do is Toxic Gurdurr and hope to Wish stall it. A good Gurdurr player will just keep setting up to +4 or +5 and Drain Punch Alomomola for the OHKO, which will allow you to regenerate most of your HP back lost from Toxic. You'll probably have to switch out by then but at least you've taken Alomomola out.
Edit: Forgot about Clear Smog on Amoonguss; I never use it because it's weak and unreliable against Substitute users, but if other people use it I guess Amoonguss could be considered as a Gurdurr counter.
Excellent, let's keep the discussion going.
Knock Off certainly seems like it could cripple MANY Gurdurr counters, but Gurdurr has difficulty finding a free slot. I for one wouldn't want to give up Bulk Up...
RestTalk is just theoretical at the moment, but the Guts boost makes it seem effective to me. Being able to totally not give a damn about Amoonguss is cool too, although the lack of priority sucks.
And you're right, many Amoonguss don't run Clear Smog nowadays. Unfortunately, Garbodor do ;_;
i think the best counter to Gurdurr is actually a Swalot. now before you knock this down. think about it. Liquid ooze plus a good defensive typing makes Swalot a perfect counter to this guy in my opinion. i ran a Max HP Max defense swalot Bold nature and can freely switch into gurdurr all the time, with yawn/encore it does work.
Swalot with a Rocky Helmet and Pain Split can probably cause some harm to Gurdurr, yes, but Garbodor can do it better and Spike, too.
Gurdurr is brilliant. I'm a huge fan of the offensive BU set (it's pretty strong; drain+mach punch 2hkos Kadabra on switchin, for reference), but I also found a set I love pretty recently:
252 HP/4 Atk/252 Def
Impish (+Def, -SpAtk)
Without a doubt one of the best physicals walls I can find in NU. It's ridiculously bulky and only has a real weakness to Braviary in terms of NU physical attackers. It hits back pretty hard in return, too, especially if statused or using ResTalk. It's a real pain to take down if you don't 2HKO, and when played right absolutely walks all over a bunch of prominent Pokes (ex. Altaria, some Zangoose, rock-types, as a few admittedly poor examples)
Gurdurr is a beast. I use it with the standard Bulk Up set, and with Ice Punch for coverage, and after a one or two Bulk Up boosts it justs wrecks house on the spot.
It can also set up against many common walls (and using Toxic on it only causes Guts to activate), which is pretty useful.
I really like to use Gurdurr but I don't really think I'm going to be using it much now mainly because Mushy is so much more useful now in general without Absol there to keep it in line. I just don't really think it can be as useful/needed with Mushy around and without it needing to take out Cinccino/Absol, and the fact that stall/defensive teams (with phazing) are more likely to be around it's just going to be harder for it to set up imo. Not that it can't set up but with psychic's as bigger threats and more outright offensive Pokemon (aka Sawk for example) needing to break defensive teams it just seems like Gurdurr has less of a purpose than it did before.
|All times are GMT -4. The time now is 9:20:34 PM.|