CAP 3 - Part 13 - Movepool Submissions
Show must go on, folks! Let's see them movepools! Yup, in this thread, YOU get to submit a FULL MOVEPOOL for Mollux! Exciting and scary stuff. However, there are limitations to what you can do! It's mostly in the movepool submission article. It should also be noted that there are lists of allowed and disallowed moves: attacking moves and non-attacking moves. In addition to this, there are limits of 75 total moves and 40 "Very Good Moves" (again, defined in the movepool submission article), as per this discussion. Submitted movepools must follow these guidelines to have a chance to be selected for the poll, and even then it's not guaranteed! Competition is fierce, yo.
Mollux so far:
Typing: Fire / Poison
Base stats: 95 HP / 45 Atk / 83 Def / 131 SpA / 105 SpD / 76 Spe
Abilities: Dry Skin / Illuminate
All of you may commence in making your pools. Remember, I have selected only a small pool of required moves, but obviously you should fill in the blanks with what you feel is necessary for flavor.
If you're looking for Egg Groups to satisfy keeping Hurricane separate from Thunder: Fairy and Bug are both sufficient. Water 1 or Field can be done if you mess with some Dream World moves, but in general try to stick to those if you want to include both if your movepool. If you only want one, obviously go with whatever. The issue is concurrent legality, not existence.
Finally, I'll reiterate what I said before about how I envision Mollux:
Mollux is a bulky offensive pivot, not a sweeper.
Mollux's combination of type and ability make it an excellent answer to most Rain teams, and outside of Rain its Fire STAB backed by 131 SpA keeps large portions of Sand teams at bay.
Its ability to get free turns through its immunities to burn, poison, and water attacks, as well as its general bulk ideally situate it to set up hazards, remove them, or perform other light support duties for a team.
Mollux has several forms of reliable recovery, allowing it to maximize its pivoting duties. It has small but specifically allowed and tailored coverage so that it can perform its duties. It has very few high-powered moves, however it has a several moves that are situationally useful, should movepool submitters choose to include them.
Mollux is designed for pivot offense, not pure support.
While it does have potential access to several support options, it is not an all-in-one supporter. It can be a cleric, it can set up a Light Screen, it can swap an item, it can spin, and it can set up a hazard - but it shouldn't be doing more than two of these functions on any set, and optimally only doing one.
Mollux can strengthen its Special Defense more readily than its Physical Defense.
While Mollux can burn with Will-O-Wisp or increase its defense with Acid Armor, our Threats Discussion mentioned specifically physical threats as the top adversaries to Mollux. As such it can set up using Calm Mind to enhance its Special Defense, use Charge, or set up Light Screen. Most of Rain is comprised of Special Attackers, and Mollux is thusly more adept at facing them.
Now, you might disagree with my vision, but that's where I see Mollux going. It's not designed to set-up sweep, it's designed to use those defenses to pressure a certain playstyle using its type's resistances along with an ability to challenge the very foundations of that playstyle. How will Rain Stall (or even Rain Offense to a degree) adapt to a Pokemon built to tear it apart piece by piece? We'll find out.
Let the ultimate showdown of ultimate destiny COMMENCE!
Total Moves: 61 moves (37 very good moves / 24 flavor moves)
Egg Moves (Fairy/Field Group):
As of June 9, this is my Final Submission.
Total: 63 moves, 35 very good moves
Gonna try one here. Not final by any means unless it contains a well thought-out list of 75 moves, around 30 or so are VGMs.
VGMs are marked with an asterisk.
Note: Some VGMs (ex. Gunk Shot) are not marked, and some non-VGMs (ex. Octazooka) are, because of Mollux's stats and allowed moves.
Note: Sky Drop is merely there for humor value, but if you guys want me to take it off I will.
Deck's flavor tips:
OK folks, so we have a pretty high limit on moves.
Let me just say that I pride myself on the "completeness" of my movepools. Which is to say, I study what the Pokemon of the types learn and incorporate those elements into my movepool. For your edification below, here are the moves that would generally occur on a fullly evolved Fire/Poison type:
TM 06 Toxic
TM 09 Venoshock
TM 10 Hidden Power
TM 11 Sunny Day
TM 15 Hyper Beam
TM 17 Protect
TM 18 Rain Dance
TM 21 Frustration
TM 22 Solarbeam
TM 27 Return
TM 32 Double Team
TM 35 Flamethrower
TM 36 Sludge Bomb
TM 38 Fire Blast
TM 42 Facade
TM 43 Flame Charge
TM 44 Rest
TM 45 Attract
TM 46 Thief
TM 48 Round
TM 50 Overheat
TM 59 Incinerate
TM 61 Will-O-Wisp
TM 66 Payback
TM 68 Giga Impact
TM 87 Swagger
TM 90 Substitute
This is a listing of typical moves. Not every Pokemon of the type has these moves, but a large majority of them do, and aside from competitive concerns, this should be your baseline for the TM portion of your movepools. You have plenty of play room here
Alright, we're going to make this. I'm sticking strictly to the VGM list, so stuff like Return and Explosion count, even though we'd never use them. I've culled a couple of mandated moves from the above list, namely Thief and Payback. I constructed this before counting, so I'm going to stand by fluff like Struggle Bug rather than trim them to avoid appearing "bloated". It's more important to me that Mollux have several options for each "archetype" of move rather than to try and pidgeonhole it into specific sets.
Primary Goal: Mollux as an offensive pivot that adapts to several playstyles
Secondary Goal: Mollux as a customizable team member with several options for each move "type."
72 Total Moves
Mollux's main STABs
Fire Blast / Overheat / Lava Plume / Flamethrower
Sludge Bomb / Sludge Wave
Mollux's primary coverage
Thunderbolt / Thunder (ex. Hurricane)
Hurricane (ex. Thunder)
Mollux's switch-forcing moves
Acid Spray, Encore, Soak, Torment, Charge
Mollux's switch-abusing moves
Stealth Rock, Toxic Spikes, Rapid Spin, Heal Bell, Light Screen, Calm Mind, Substitute, Safeguard, Rain Dance, Sunny Day, Aqua Ring.
Mollux's recovery options
Recover, Morning Sun, Pain Split
Mollux's status moves
Will-O-Wisp, Toxic, Thunder Wave
Explosion, Zap Cannon, Dig, Gyro Ball, Struggle Bug, doubles moves
All in all, I focused on switching Mollux in, forcing opponents out, and doing something to help the team. That thing could be shooting the opponent really hard, or it could be some assistance like a screen or a hazard. I gave Mollux a range of ways to stay healthy and do its job, a fair bit of coverage to slap Rain around, and several ways to force its own switches in a pinch. Hopefully, this helps meet a certain vision and let Mollux hold its own in a competitive OU match.
All right, I've been making this movepool since the stat limit thread and I'm banking on being the most realistic movepool of the bunch. By making that claim, I suppose I obligate myself to examine all the other movepools closely to uphold it and acknowledge exceptions. Finding no other movepool that quite does all of what I have done for the sake of realism, I now present my Final Submission!
And now the actual stuff:
Unrepeated moves: 16
Unrepeated VGMs: 8
Unrepeated moves: 37
Unrepeated VGMs: 22
Unrepeated moves: 5
Unrepeated VGMs: 4
Now, some of you have expressed to me and others that you would like Sweet Kiss. Unfortunately, I could not fit Sweet Kiss anywhere in level/TM/HM/breeding. However, I do have one option left:
Unrepeated moves: 1
Unrepeated VGMs: 0
Total unrepeated moves: 59
Total unrepeated VGMs: 34
Good luck to all submissions!
Exactly how prepared are you, Nyt? :P
Anyway here goes mine:-
EDIT: June 6th - Changed Leer to Sweet Scent in Level-up Moves. Added lore about sweet scent in the flavour section.
EDIT: June 7th - Removed Whirlwind from the movepool, thus declining Mollux the role of a phazer. Change Heal Bell to Aromatherapy for better flavour, removed the tutor moves' list altogether and shuffled the tutor moves into egg and level-up movelists.
EDIT: June 8th - Added legal and illegal egg move combinations. Added Struggle Bug, Double Team and Dig as TM moves. Buffed up my competitive reasoning essay.
EDIT: June 10th - Trimmed the VGM list according to equivalence (Return = Frustration). Added a Calm Mind Mollux moveset. Buffed up my flavor essay. Shuffled a few choice moves in the level-up list.
69 Moves total, 40 VGMs (as per the lists)
(VGMs in bold, repeated VGMs in bold italics)
And now for some really, really vague ideas:
Good luck to everybody else, and do provide feedback as you see fit. I'd particularly appreciate help with the equivalent/outclassed VGM issue, as this is my first movepool submission. Thanks in advance! EDIT: Well, since this is final, I've logged the changes I'd done, and thank you all, again (bows).
On a final note, fullest credits to Birkal and Past Champion Whim from PS!, whose help in the creation of this movepool is indescribably invaluable. Also, credits to Nyttyn, Flarephoenix, Destiny Warrior, and others from #cap.
Level-up is quite straightforward. Exclusively Fire/Poison/Normal with the exception of Water Gun, Knock Off, and Final Gambit. All moves including the word Acid are included in Level-up to perhaps suggest a hippie/drug-type vibe. Fun fact: Lava Plume which is required, makes Mollux the first B/W Pokemon capable of learning Lava Plume. 17 total moves is within the reasonable range expected of a Fully Evolved Pokemon of around 14-18.
Nothing too notable here. I agreed fully with the list of TMs Deck provided, with one exception, Flame Charge. While I'm not worried it will truly be an issue, I don't view it as a competitive necessity and I don't like the flavor of a snail getting a speed boosting move. This is consistent with one other slow-ish Fire type Pokemon in B/W, Heatmor. Neither Anteaters nor Snails are fast, and I don't see a reason to enable Mollux to become fast. Aside from the expected moves from Deck minus Flame Charge, I added a few competitive moves that offer some versatility: Light Screen, Thunderbolt, Thunder (Hurricane appears nowhere on my set), Charge Beam (because why not?), Sludge Wave (just a slight upgrade from the expected Sludge Bomb), and Thunder Wave (which I offer as an alternative to boosting its own speed with Flame Charge.) After those, I added flavor moves: Dig, Flash, and Explosion. Yes, lava lamps can and have exploded if they get overheated... admittedly only if you're really, really stupid. But it can happen.
I chose Water 3 alone despite my desire to put Mollux compatible with things like Shuckle or Magcargo... but I couldn't pick. And in the end, I think enabling Stealth Rock + Toxic Spikes + Rapid Spin by making Mollux breedable with Forretress is a bad thing. Again, not that I'm worried about it, like Flame Charge, but I don't see it as necessary. And Water 3 fulfills all my needs.
Total: 60 / 36
This is my first Movepool submission ever, so hopefully I didn't fuck it up too badly.
Level-Up (Bold = VGM) (10 VGM, 22 Moves)
TM List (Bold = VGM; Italics = Repeated Move) ( 16 New VGM 24 New Moves)
Breeding Fairy/Water 3 (Bold = VGM) (9 VGMs 9 Total Moves)
EDIT: Changes the level-up move set, removing some moves from it. Will go indepth with the Egg Moves later.
Anyway, I'll try my hand at this.
70 total moves, 34 VGMs
Egg Groups - Water 1 and Amorphous
Where we stand, as far as I see it, is with a tankish CAP that has low(er) Speed, a fairly negative Stealth Rock weakness, and weaknesses to common STABs and coverage moves. It is also susceptible to Spikes and takes damage from 3 kinds of weather (and Abomasnow has OU-level usage as of May). On the positive side, our CAP has Water/Toxic/Burn immunities, stellar resistances to common coverage moves for Water-types, usable defensive stats, and an incredible SpA stat. Together, these elements look to me like a Poke that should be fine to switch-in in common battle conditions but will have a lot of trouble staying in over multiple turns. So, my goal with this movepool has been to focus on the positive quality of utilizing free turns, and to try to use them to buck the negative qualities (I believe this approach is appropriate for the concept).
Based on that short theorymoning, along with past discussions and my own interpretation of where we're headed with this concept, I envision a Poke with a variety of options but still three primary "roles" or functions or builds, each intended to maximize Mollux's first-turns out on the field (first-turns being the first turn in battle, each time the Poke enters battle). Regardless of its role, Mollux will have to make tough choices for moveslots, but ideally there will be several viable options that can give our CAP surprise value and maybe even a few extra rounds of play. The main idea here, though, is that the three main builds focus the CAP on its performance in the metagame and guide the movepool towards maximizing that quality.
The first role is "Hazards," as in Mollux's role is to set up and/or take down entry hazards with a mild offensive presence. This movepool gives Mollux access to the one-off Rapid Spin, in order to clear the field of the layers that harm it so badly while the opponent switches, and Wish/Recover or just Dry Skin to heal back the damage (if the switch-in is not automatically threatening). For actually laying hazards, this movepool contains both Stealth Rock and Toxic Spikes, with Egg illegalities mildly focusing attention on use of the one-layered Stealth Rock. I also wanted to include Dragon Tail for Hazards Mollux for four reasons: 1) it gives Mollux the ability to bypass Taunt, preventing Taunt users from shutting it down completely and stealing momentum; 2) it shuffles opponents through the player's entry hazards for added damage; 3) it prevents Mollux from becoming setup bait (e.g. Forretress), especially by powerful Dragons, which would make CAP a liability; and 4) it gives Mollux a viable technique to abuse Dry Skin in the Rain - by nabbing repeat switch-ins after SR is down and doing attack/hazard damage, but then also healing Mollux at the end of the turn. This combo, Dry Skin + Dragon Tail, could give hazards Mollux a legitimate spot on a Rain team and a real, unique advantage in the OU weather wars. More generally speaking, a moveset like Rapid Spin/SR/Lava Plume/Dragon Tail plays a lot different from Rapid Spin/SR/Lava Plume/Recover, or from SR/Recover/Lava Plume/Dragon Tail, or even SR/Dragon Tail/Lava Plume/Thunderbolt, which will hopefully force opponents to do a little bit of scouting once they see SR in the moveset (i.e. not just wait to take advantage of a fully-predictable, run-of-the-mill hazard stacker).
The second role is "Bulky," as in Mollux fills the role of bulky pivot that supports the team with resistances and status. CAP's support options here are mostly just good on their own and give Bulky Mollux the choice of either attacking after the switch-in or using that reliable status move before it is forced out. This movepool contains Calm Mind, Recover, Wish, Thunder Wave, Will-o-Wisp, Toxic, Light Screen, Lava Plume, and Thunderbolt for this role. Like Dragon Tail before, Calm Mind is aimed at giving Mollux more than just one or two turns on the field at a time and can be used offensively or defensively with that sky-high SpA stat and good Special bulk. Recover is crucially legal with all moves and will be the backbone of Bulky Mollux, but I also included Wish, as it is one of the best one-move support options available and is always useful, despite the 95 HP stat, which is low for a Wish user. Wish also seems so conducive to the role of "bulky pivot" that I couldn't leave it out (it literally requires you to pivot in order to make better use of it than Recover). Thunder Wave, Will-o-Wisp, and Toxic provide a triple-status advantage, with Thunder Wave compensating for Mollux's low Speed and Will-o-Wisp compensating for its lower physical Defense. Finally, Light Screen is a good move to throw up any time with a free turn, boosting Mollux's already good SpD while it's on the field. The offensive moves for bulky Mollux are Lava Plume (or Flamethrower, if you desire) and Thunderbolt, giving Mollux access to any two of its support options, of which there are some good options in Will-o-Wisp/Light Screen, Recover/Calm Mind, Thunder Wave/Dragon Tail/Encore, etc., or just one support move and a Hidden Power for more offensive variants.
The third role is "Offense," which will most likely be the least-used role, but that doesn't mean it won't have any fun toys. For the most part, this build will be focusing Mollux's first-turns on massive outbursts of damage. For Offensive Mollux, I have included Eruption, Fire Blast, Overheat, Flame Charge, Sludge Wave, Thunder, Thunderbolt, Hidden Power, and Trick to give Life Orb, Choice Scarf, or Choice Specs Mollux tons of power, but less coverage than other OU bruisers. This reliance on STABs instead of coverage makes Sludge Wave look like a halfway-decent option, which speaks directly to the concept. Thunder is most useful in Rain, and is this movepool's only Rain-abusing move. I opted out of including Hurricane so that I could avoid ham-fisting the illegality with Thunder, and the move doesn't offer enough to the movepool to justify it. Beyond the Electric attacks, coverage could include SolarBeam in the Sun, but Sludge Wave, Hidden Power, and Trick will be the go-to non-Fire-type moves for Offensive Mollux, leaving it with Fire/Poison/Electric/Hidden Power coverage. The main decision here will be which nuclear move, Overheat, Fire Blast, or Eruption, to start throwing around the metagame.
Flavor-wise, I avoided adding physical attacks where I could, due to the physically inoffensive looks of the thing. This absence is reflected in the stat spread as well, and, with a connection to all the physically inoffensive cutemons via breeding (Fairy Egg Group), this movepool ties these elements together to give the CAP an added quirk. I also wanted to touch on Mollux's amphibious design origins with specific Water-type moves and the Water 1 Egg Group. The Fire typing is well-established in the Level-Up and TM movepools, while the secondary Poison typing gets its big tricks in the Egg pool, with other attacks and support moves dotting the LU and TM lists. The final look is cohesive, in my opinion, and gives Mollux plenty of personality while reinforcing the appeal of the original design.
So this is the movepool.
An Introduction, and a Vision of sorts
Let me preface this movepool by saying that I am one of those who subscribes to the school of thought that says "less is more". There are many movepool submitters who are suggesting that the larger the movepool is, the better - that Mollux is somehow made better by the many additions it could potentially have. I do not think that, in this case, it is even a mildly good idea to include as many options as possible in the rather vain hope that Mollux will turn out to be able to use at least one of them.
Mollux has a niche. Multiple niches, in fact. If all goes well, it will be a one-Pokemon stop to just about every rain Pokemon in existence, as well as a good sun attacker or rain tank. Importantly, it has reliable recovery. I believe that this is absolutely the most crucial thing to focus on - encouraging this dual niche - and that almost everything else should be viewed as a distraction. More than anything else, I want to see how Mollux can perform as a Pokemon, within a niche that incorporates its ability, some coverage, and indeed movepool, without risking defining it with x random option. Hence a dual niche, dependent upon its typing.
Would Mollux be broken with any of these added moves? Certainly not, but I do not feel that adding any extraneous, superfluous options is at all helping us in our most important pursuit - learning what we set out to learn, which was whether a Pokemon could carry itself on the strength of a rather dubious typing, or at least benefit from it with a little help. Will Mollux be useless without these moves? Possibly, but then that's not the point. We're not here to make a fantastic Pokemon - we're here to try to learn something, and typically we can learn a lot more from the bare minimum than we can from a hyper-bloated movepool. See Krilowatt for details. I want Mollux to be as direct and to the point as possible - but I do think that, based on the strength of its niche, and the movepool I have given, it has more than enough to be a force in OU, easily. Remember that it's often not the strength of the Pokemon that matters, but the strength of its niche (which is why Toxicroak is OU and Kyurem is BL).
Now, on to the movepool itself. I have tried to be extremely conservative with the attacking moves - that is to say, only allowed the most vital of extra coverage. Hence, I have only given strong attacking moves in three types - Fire (Lava Plume, Flamethrower, Fire Blast, etc), Poison (Sludge Bomb, Sludge Wave, etc) and Electric (Thunder, Thunderbolt, etc). This is easily enough for 3 move coverage + Recover - and of course, there's still Hidden Power to mix things up a little. Now, you may wonder why there is so little coverage here - this is for two reasons. Firstly, I don't want to make Mollux any greater a special attacker than it has to be - unpredictability is a nasty thing, and I don't think that's a facet of Mollux I want to encourage. I want it to do one or two things very well, rather than relying on unreliable methods. Secondly, I want to encourage the use of Poison-type attacks. Surprising though it may seem, STAB Sludge Wave is just stronger than a super effective Hidden Power, and actually gets pretty decent neutral coverage, all things considered. You still can't hit Rock-types for toffee, which is something to be encouraged, anyway. Being able to take on everything in the game is something we've done far too much of in CAP, I feel.
Now, the secondary moves. True to my word, I have only included a few in here that make the mildest bit of difference and aren't already required. We have our instant-recovery moves - it has been a tried-and-true note that most Stealth Rock weak Pokemon perform better with reliable recovery - in fact, pretty much everything does. But Mollux in particular will want to stay healthy for longer, to capitalise on that bulk, and Recover allows it to do that. The only real "generic support" moves I have included that were not already required are Toxic Spikes, Stealth Rock, Rapid Spin, and Trick. Now, for Toxic Spikes I greatly enjoyed the argument that more Toxic Spikes in the metagame means that the Poison-type is more valuable, so I included it. Stealth Rock is less easy to justify, but to me it came down to the competition between it and Heatran. Both are offensive Fire-types, yet Heatran can set up Stealth Rock if need be - while the comparison between them is slim, Stealth Rock is another potential reason to include Heatran over Mollux, should the team be in need of it, and hence Stealth Rock ought to be there purely for the option to exist. Lastly, Rapid Spin. Now, this was mainly included because a) it's great flavour with Gyro Ball and b) I actually think it would be rather unexpected, similarly to Cloyster or Armaldo, two other Stealth Rock weak spinners. This is largely because on rain teams it is kind of totally outclassed by Tentacruel, and on sun teams by Forretress.
Now, Deck will probably hate me for this, but while Stealth Rock is legal with Rapid Spin, Toxic Spikes, and Recover, Recover is not legal with Rapid Spin, so the combination of Rapid Spin + Stealth Rock + Recover is impossible. This is actually largely intentional - I do not think that a moveset that puts secondary options into so many slots is entirely indicative of the strengths of Mollux's typing, though as I argued for dual screens, it could be argued that Mollux's typing is the best thing about such a set (and not, say, being the only bulky Rapid Spinner with access to Recover, which is why I half-disallowed the possibility). Of course, this does not mean that Spin+Hazard+Recover is impossible at all - Morning Sun is still available, which means that depending on the weather it is used in, Mollux can get a Spin+Hazard+25%+12.5% (rain) or a Spin+Hazard+66.6% (sun) set quite easily, which is easily enough recovery. Anyway, the point here is that I am trying to make multiple-attack offensive and defensive sets the most competitively viable - hence why Recover is not as easily obtainable to those of a support disposition.
Oh, and Trick. Well, my reasoning for that was that it would be pretty funky to run a Trick+Flame Orb or Toxic Orb set to bluff a Choice item, then greatly irritate the foe's Terrakion the next time it came in - why, exactly, you would not run Will-O-Wisp or Toxic is beyond me, but then, it's a fun idea for taking advantage of the typing. Not to mention that it also encourages Choice sets, which I feel can make good use of certain strong Poison-type STAB moves, not to mention, well, not being support sets. Well, that's the hope, anyway. I felt that the positives outweighed the negatives here.
Finally, set-up moves. I will make no secret of the fact that I do not like the idea of them on Mollux. They are distracting, and largely useless. Flame Charge I put on purely because of flavour, and because I know from Flame Charge Heatran that this move is entirely useless competitively (well, comparatively speaking). As far as Calm Mind goes, I don't know. I really don't know. There appears to be a desire for a set-up move of some description - Calm Mind Mollux can never sweep, and I believe Deck is being rather optimistic with his appraisal of the SpD boost. However, I have included it purely for sake of experiment. Will Calm Mind help it achieve its function? I have no idea, so finding out would be nice. I believe it distracting and unnecessary, but I don't know if my beliefs are justified at present.
Well, that's the competitive vision. Flavour is described below. Hope you like the movepool, and good luck to all other entrants.
[I] = VGM
* = Repeat Move
** = Equivalent Move
Now, firstly, of course, you will notice the presence of both Rain Dance and Sunny Day as Level 1 moves. I consider this Pokemon to be rather similar to Bronzong in this regard, who had that whole flavour thing about it being the ancient summoner of rains, but I rather like the idea that Mollux is something of a weather-summoner by nature, or at least able to manipulate clouds, given its very complicated relationship with both rain and sun. The idea being, of course, that it can change the weather to suit its own needs – or even depending on its moods. Or something like that. Anyway, the importance of the duality of Mollux's existence – as a defensive rain Pokemon, or an offensive sun Pokemon – is pretty well exemplified.
The rest of the flavour moves are fairly standard moves for shell-bearing Pokemon, and are largely based on Shuckle's movepool. Hence we have Constrict, Withdraw, and Bide. As with most movepools, the moves steadily increase with Base Power as we go up – Hence we have Ember at the start and Eruption at the end, Mollux's most powerful attack. The other two flavour moves are Poison Jab and Flash – Poison Jab is working off the whole cone snail principle, as an actual cone snail's primary offensive weapon is its poison tooth, which I feel is important to mention on this movepool. Also Flash because it is a lava lamp. Both of these are also TMs, but so integral to the flavour that they have to be level-up moves as well. Finally, Thundershock is a little nod to the fact that Thunderbolt and Thunder are included in the movepool as TMs, and of course the fact that it is a lava lamp.
As far as the competitive options go, Acid Spray goes on because, well, it's required. There is really no other reason I put it on. I suppose it works in terms of the increasing move BP flavour though. Lava Plume is also required, but is a very nice way of taking advantage of Fire-type STAB by abusing a move with high burn chance that isn't totally useless offensively. Even though I have Recover on this movepool, it is illegal with Rapid Spin – therefore, Morning Sun is always available for recovery for rapid spinners. It's also an option if you want Mollux to deal with, or be more capable on, sun teams, as it makes up for the loss of HP by Dry Skin somewhat. Finally, there's Eruption – Mollux's strongest initial attack. I really like it, both as a nod to the concept as to the sheer power of some Fire-type attacks, and giving it something to do that Heatran, for all its strengths, cannot. Also it gives us an excuse to use it in the sun, which, let me remind you, is not the rain.
TMs and HMs
Now, let's see here. Rain Dance, Sunny Day, Flash, and Poison Jab have all been explained, so there's no need to go over them again. Notably, in this, I took out most of the non-competitive moves that I couldn't justify as per flavour while leaving a few options behind, mainly the ones that every fully-evolved Pokemon has such as Façade, Round, and Giga Impact, so we're pretty bare-bones here. As far as other flavour moves are concerned, they are pretty generic shell flavour again – Explosion is pretty much a mainstay of everything with a shell, Gyro Ball conjures up rather wonderful images of a spinning-top lava lamp, and of course Struggle Bug is a rather obvious nod to Shuckle. Lastly, Venoshock and Incinerate are our two STAB moves of doubtful competitive value.
As for competitive moves, most of the STAB moves are fairly straightforward. We have Fire Blast, Overheat and Flamethrower, Sludge Bomb and Sludge Wave, nothing of particular interest or note. Flame Charge is noteworthy, and I included it purely because I am interested in any potential applications, and it is more easily justifiable by flavour than most of the rubbish options people were spewing out. I know it will be next to useless – one only has to look at Flame Charge Heatran to know that – but it'll still be an interesting experiment. Will-O-Wisp is required, as ever, and the only other options of note are Thunder and Thunderbolt. I sympathise with both the camp that says that we need a strong move for rain and the one that says we need to beat bulky Water-types even outside of rain, and so both are added on. Thunder is a strong, powerful option both for beating Water-types in rain and for attacking outside of it, and Thunderbolt doesn't have that 70% accuracy worry, or even lower if in any other weather. I want both of them, thanks.
Groups: Bug / Water 3
Legal VGM Combinations:
Rapid Spin + Stealth Rock + Toxic Spikes (Forretress)
Recover + Stealth Rock (Cradily)
Flare Blitz (Volcarona)
Important Illegal VGM Combinations:
Recover + Rapid Spin
Recover + Toxic Spikes
Recover + Trick
Rapid Spin + Trick
Toxic Spikes + Trick
Stealth Rock + Trick
Ah, Egg Moves. Typically the place where all the non-flavour competitive moves are chucked in order to sort of push away the issue. And here is no exception, of course. We have Rapid Spin, Stealth Rock, Recover, Toxic Spikes, and Flare Blitz. Now, I included Toxic Spikes largely because putting another Toxic Spiker in the metagame has a big effect in terms of adding to the pool of Toxic Spikers, and well, since one of Mollux's big advantages as a Poison-type is the absorption of Toxic Spikes, that's no bad thing by any stretch. Stealth Rock and Rapid Spin are added so that Mollux has a utility role, as well as perhaps letting it compete with Heatran on balanced teams – and indeed, something that sets it apart from Tentacruel as a Toxic Spiker, as well as semi-reliable recovery in Morning Sun. Recover is illegal with both Toxic Spikes and Rapid Spin, which makes them somewhat less attractive than Mollux's offensive options, which is something I feel we ought to be encouraging – it is legal with Stealth Rock though. However, I don't think this is a particularly big deal as if I were purely using a Mollux with Stealth Rock, I'd much rather use Heatran, regardless of Recover, so that's not really a big deal in my opinion. I'm willing to turn a blind eye to it, anyway.
As far as Trick goes, I like it for sake of the way it can hypothetically interact with the typing, as well as making Choice sets a little more favoured. On the down side, you can't use it with any of the other big utility moves, which is semi-intentional – Trick is a good way to grab a few free turns, and I'd like to limit the extent to which Mollux can capitalise on this. In any case, it shouldn't be a problem if Mollux is using an offensive set. As far as flavour goes, Gastro Acid, Harden, and Wrap continue the whole shell Pokemon theme, while Bug Bite and Silver Wind are there to sweeten the link between those marvellous Bug-types, most of whom it can breed with apparently. Flare Blitz is there as yet another Fire-type move, and finally, we have Electro Ball. Now, Electro Ball has multiple flavour connotations - it pairs nicely with the lava lamp theme, and the moves associated with it - namely, Gyro Ball and Rapid Spin in terms of "spinning" (yeah I know it's not really spinning, but it's still a ball) and the Electric-type moves in terms of, er, electricity. Yeah.
As far as the Egg groups go, it has to be in Bug, of course, because one couldn't imagine it not being able to breed with Shuckle. Not to mention that Forretress is necessary for most of the Egg move legalities. In addition, it is a part of Water 3, which isn't particularly relevant to egg move legalities, but contains all the aquatic invertebrates, so is really the only egg group that makes absolute sense for Mollux to be in. Indeed, I rather like the way that all of Mollux's egg moves, barring Trick and Flare Blitz, can be found on multiple Pokemon in both groups - gives a wonderful sense of place, you know.
Total Moves: 60
Total VGMs: 30
Total Repeats: 4
Total Equivalents: 1
Well, that's that. I doubt you'll see me for the rest of this CAP, so good luck to all participants.
Final Movepool Submission
Total Moves: 62
Egg Group: Water 3 / Bug
Most Recent Updates:
- added Recover to level-up in place of Morning Sun
- removed Acupressure, Disable, Haze, Endeavor, Magic Coat, and Thunder from egg moves
- moved Thunder to TMs and and Magic Coat to level-up in place of Acid Armor (removed)
- added Encore to egg moves
- Offensive coverage includes Fire/Poison STABs, as well as Electric moves, Bug moves, mud-related Ground-type moves, and Solarbeam
- Hurricane, Power Gem, Octazooka, Final Gambit, and Gunk Shot are absent from offensive coverage
- Non-attacking competitive options include Calm Mind, Thunder Wave / Toxic / Will-O-Wisp, Clear Smog, Magic Coat, Stealth Rock & Toxic Spikes, Recover, Knock Off, Encore, Flame Charge, and Rapid Spin
- Support movepool attempts to cater to all possible support needs without giving an overcentralized emphasis on support.
- Magnet Rise, Haze, Roar/Whirlwind, Acid Armor, Snatch, Soak, and Pain Split are absent from boosting/support movepool
- emphasis on cone snail flavor includes mud-related attacks, weaker Bug moves, Dig, Gastro Acid, Whirlpool, Poison Sting, and Poison Jab
- emphasis on lava lamp flavor includes Charge, Charge Beam, Signal Beam, Thunderbolt, Thunder, and Explosion
As this is my first movepool submission for a CAP project, I hope it is well-recieved. Thanks very much for reading.
Moves with an * are VGMs.
Total moves: 62
Total VGMs: 34
I've never done this before for CAP, but I'm done detailed movepools for my own fakemons so I'm not without any experience in this. I don't really expect to be picked but for some reason I find this sort of thing fun.
Just the tiniest of things, but the Heart Scale function is only enabled (assuming a lack of prevos) if it has >4 Lv 1 moves, or it'll just hatch knowing Octazooka and Signal Beam.
On an unrelated note, I like every single one of the movepools submitted so far, and choosing is pretty tough, but capefeather and Malky's are probably my favourites so far. Malkyrian considered flavour equally with viability, and the result is both functional and aesthetically pleasing. The egg moves also show a lot of pairing thought behind them.
capefeather's precedence-based movepool also appeals to me for the same reasons, and I have to admit I find Hurricane a weird move to give to Mollux, despite the competitive viability of the move, so the lack of Hurricane on cape's movepool is also a deciding factor for me.
To be honest, I don't think there are any inherently flawed movepools here so far, and I'd be happy to see any one of them.
First time doing this so some feedback would be sweet, anyways here it is
Total moves 38
Vgm 23 (sludge bomb and sludge wave repeated from level up)
Repeated from level up 3
total moves 11
69 total moves
If I missed something or if you have any suggestions (especially with fitting morning sun in somewhere else) it would be appreciated if you point it out, thanks!
So this is my movepool Submission. I focused mostly on giving mollux a personality through this movepool and that is where a lot of the flavor comes from for me. I make a few references to ts snail like characteristics. Competitively O wanted to make Mollux A pivot pokemon rather than an all out sweeper or an stall pokemon, and my movepool reflects that idea. I also gave mollusk some utility moves to make somewhat more diverse. So without further ado here is my movepool. Unique VGM's in Bold.
IN TOTAL I HAVE 60 MOVES AND 33 VERY GOOD MOVES
Octazooka removed from movepool
Facade added to TM list
Changed Explosion to Self Destruct in level up moves
Moved Acid Spray to Egg moves Replaced with Poison Jab
Added Light Screen, Poison Jab, Thunder, and Thunderbolt to TM list
Removed Calm mind from TM list
Completely revamped Egg List for flavor purposes.
The Fairy Egg group was changed to Water 3
Tutor moves dropped
Hurricane Removed from Movepool
Egg Moves Egg group Water 3/Amorphous
My Vision for Mollux
This movepool was designed to make Mollux a natural offensive or defensive pivot, but without turning mollux into a set up sweeper or an all out stallmon. To do this, I decided to give Mollux A strong fire STAB, a Poison STAB, its choice of Thunder and Thunderbolt, and a Hidden Power. This isn’t a lot by any means, but Poison, Fire, and Electric have perfect neutral coverage and Hidden Power provides a good wild card option, so Mollux will never find itself at a loss for coverage. I also gave Mollux a diverse batch of support options including Toxic Spikes, Wish, Rapid Spin, Fire Spin, Will-o-Wisp, Trick, and Toxic. These moves are diverse in function, and this allows mollux to fill various rolls based on its teams needs. I don’t expect players to use over two of these options, and I feel this is a good thing because like I mentioned before, I want mollux to function as a pivot and not a wall. I feel that thanks to Mollux’s offensive presence and varied support options, it can fill multiple team needs and will see substantial use in the OU metagame. I imagine it will act like Heatran: a Pokémon that manages to succeed thanks to its support options, its ability to pressure opponents with its offensive capabilities, and finds its ways onto many teams thanks to its versatility.
Questionable Move Exclusions Addressed
Calm Mind, Charge Beam, and Flame Charge- I excluded these moves because I do not want to become another sweeper in the OU metagame. We have enough of those in my opinion and I wanted to differentiate mollux from the crowd. I know that Flame charge and Charge Beam can be very flavorful on Mollux, but so could shell smash. In CAP we sometimes abandon flavorful attacks when those attacks change the competitive role of the CAP. Perhaps my vision for CAP 3 is different than yours, and I can respect that, but I was aiming to create a Pokémon that served as a powerful pivot, and I felt that these three boosting moves threatened this goal.
Thunder Wave- This is another move that provides good flavor for CAP that I decided to omit. Mollux already learnstwo status inducing moves in toxic, and will-o-wisp. Most Pokémon with multiple status inducing moves have one slot for a status effect, and the various status inducing moves fight for a spot on a moveset (the exceptions are some sleep inducing mons because they can onlyput one Pokémon to sleep). If we throw thunder Wave into the mix, mollux would have three status moves fighting for one spot. Now the concept of this CAP was to make a bad typing good because of its typing. Will-o-wisp and Toxic are cornerstones of most Fire and Poison types respectively, and if either one sees a nice amount of use, then I would say that is a step in the right direction to declare this CAP project a success. Thunder Wave however has nothing to do with Mollux’s typing, and threatens to steal the thunder from two attacks that do. I didn’t feel like taking the risk of Thunder Wave overshadowing Mollux’s two typing based status moves, so I decided not to include it in my movepool.
Hurricane- I didn’t give Mollux hurricane because I wanted mollux to have thunder and thunderbolt. Thunder because it fits flavor wise with the whole electric lamp theme and because it provides better coverage than hurricane, and I wanted Mollux to have thunderbolt so that it could have an electric attack to use in the sun. If I wanted Hurricane and Thunder, I would have to list them as egg moves. However, I couldn’t have Thunderbolt as a TM without Thunder, because no Pokémon has that so it doesn’t make much sense. That would mean I would have to have Thunderbolt as an egg move, but this also seemed weird since no non electric type has both Thunder and Thunderbolt as egg moves. Ultimately, I decided it was just cleaner and simpler to have Thunder and Thunderbolt as TM moves and not have Hurricane at all, so that is what I did.
Signal Beam, Power Gem, and Octazooka- My Mollux movepool has far fewer coverage options compared to other proposed Mollux sets. This is mostly because I couldn’t find a place to squeeze them in. However, in my opinion these moves aren’t very flavorful and actually don’t cost Mollux too much in terms of coverage. After all, Poison Fire and Electric hits everything for at least neutral damage and even in rain a neutral Fire Blast is more powerful than a neutral Signal Beam and Power gem and just weaker than a neutral octazooka (but if you use octazooka, you’ll get walled by Ferrothorn). So really, rain or shine a Fire/Electric/Poison coverage is probably Mollux’s best choice, and in the event that you want to take out select threats (which is really the only case in which you might use any one of Power Gem, Octazooka, and Signal Beam) you always have Hidden Power, so really coverage should never be an issue for Mollux. Although I would have liked to have some of these moves in Mollux’s movepool, not having them isn’t a huge deal competitively speaking.
Stealth Rock- I didn’t give Mollux stealth rock because OU already has a bunch of stealth rockers and I feel like Mollux would be outclassed by a ton of pokes, and especially Heatran, in setting up rocks. Plus SR made no flavor sense to me and Mollux already can set up Toxic Spikes, so stealth Rock is pretty unnecessary.
Another first timer here. This is what I came up with.
Egg (Water 3):
Total 67 moves
Offensively, Mollux has STAB access to Flamethrower, Fire Blast, Overheat, Lava Plume, Sludge Wave and Sludge Bomb, with Thunder/bolt, Solarbeam in sun and Hidden Power for coverage. To boost its own power, it has Calm Mind, Psych Up to pinch opponents boosts, Iron Defense and Acid Spray to lower the opponents defenses.
It has the ability to status the opponent with Toxic, WOW, Fling, T-wave and Body Slam along with the side effects of its STAB and electric moves, can trap opponents with Fire Spin and Wrap, act as a Hazer, spinner and toxic spiker, all with recovery provided by Slack Off or Recover.
Outside of Bubble and HP Water, there are no water type moves in this set. I think this is important as water type moves hit the majority of our designated ground/rock type counters super effectively (and I think near KOs, don't have the calcs), and HP water is the most powerful allowed water move. I was not keen on a choice set that had both Octozooka and HP Grass/Ice (for Gastrodon/Dragonite) to cover as many counters as possible. On a choice set, I would like to make the decision made by players on Hidden Power type to affect which of Mollux's counters can and can not safely switch in. Soak was left out deliberately as I believed it went against the concept as I saw the set of Soak/Thunder(bolt)/Recover/filler not benefitting the part of the concept that made Mollux's typing it's selling point.
Speaking of which, while it's not a problem with the moveset above: to people in general, I see Manaphy listed a few times. Same problem.
Forrestflamerunner: I like your levelup movepool, it's unusual. Just wanted to point out that if it learns Sludge Bomb and Sludge Wave through levelup, it should probably be able to learn them through TM too (just a nitpick). With regards to your Poison Jab flavor question, I added it myself mainly because Mollux is based off of a cone snail, which fires toxic harpoons, and got the analogue that way. Of course, since Mollux's shell is a lava lamp rather than a firing chamber... I suppose it makes sense to omit it... hmm. Maybe I should cut it out of mine. Regarding egg moves/groups, I don't much agree with that.... so that's a bit of a killer for me. I maintain that Water 3/Bug is best both in terms of flavor and as a good source of competitive egg moves. Overall, I think I would agree that Thunder Wave is unnecessary for Mollux, though that's just my opinion.
Fritzmonger's is allright too, needless to say, I prefer his choice of egg moves/groups to most of the others (save BMB and myself). I think my main issue was yours was the use of a Recover clone (Slack Off) in the primary movepool.... which is odd because I see that you have Recover as an egg move. Why not use Morning Sun in place of Slack Off to provide some incentive for breeding Recover? (More of a flavor issue I suppose.)
MCBarrett, you could add some egg moves from the likes of other mollusk-like Pokemon in the Water 1 and Amorphous groups, like Gastrodon, Magcargo, and Eelektross. Charge and Coil from Eelektross in particular seem noteworthy additions in that regard... Mostly though that'd be for flavor. Speaking of flavor, if you want to be REALLY correct with your egg group choice... I'll say it again, it'd be Water 3. Water 1 is primarily (not all, mind, but primarily) amphibious mammals, reptiles and other vertebrate creatures, where Water 3 is mainly for invertebrate and non-fish creatures (IE Tentacruel, Cradily, Omastar, etc etc). Amorphous does make sense to me, though. Also, I don't know if I care for your use of Tutor and Event moves in Mollux's movepool. In BW (I assume Mollux is intended to originate in Gen 5) there are no tutors save for Draco Meteor and the elemental hyperbeams/pledges, and Dream World is a better source of exclusive moves than 'events', I personally think (though really, why not just stick Morning Sun in his levelup moves? *shrug*).
LevilLamprey: I assume you're mainly speaking to me regarding the Heart Scale moves? Thank you for pointing that out, I think I'll change that right away.
I might borrow level-up movepool ideas from some of you guys, would that particularly bother anyone? .__. I look at it as building the best movepool possible, and that drawing inspiration from others is... acceptable...
In any case, I've made some changes to mine.
- removed Octazooka and Flash from level-up, moved Signal Beam to later level-up, added Tickle and Clear Smog to level-up
- removed Heat Wave from egg moves, added Haze and Mud-Slap
68 Moves, 35 VGM
bold = VGM
italic = dublicate
Learning by level
Total moves: 17 / Total VGM: 9
Learning by TM/HM
Total w/o repetition: 36 / Total VGM: 20
Learning by breeding
Egg Group: Amorphous/Water 1
Total: 12 / Total VGM: 4
Dream World: Ability Dry Skin
Total w/o repetation: 3 / Total VGM: 2
Whole alphabetical list
Offensive moves (14)
Support moves (32)
Okay, entirely aesthetic feedback time:
nyttyn: Looks solid, but you may want to change the order of Eruption and Heat Wave / Inferno in your movepool, as typically Eruption is a last-level move, or close to, and generally moves increase in base power as a Pokemon's level increases. I think I already covered everything else about that movepool, though.
Malkyrian: Nothing wrong with it, but I would question whether 22 moves in the level-up list is not a bit much, when most Pokemon do not have more than 15 or 16. Certainly I think that some of the flavour moves could go in egg moves, but it's your call. I'm not fond of the DW exclusives but as it's necessary to have Hurricane and Thunder exclusive, it shouldn't be a problem.
LouisCyphre: A list of egg move legalities / illegalities would be nice. Other than that, no complaints here.
capefeather: "lol precedent". I must admit, it's a fairly convincing argument, though. Not sure on Rollout, if only because most Gen V Poison-types just happen to be round, and since Mollux has only a half-cone it would just end up spinning around in a circle, but if you're happy with it... anyway, nothing else to note. Torment isn't a VGM so I doubt you'll be disqualified for it. Also, not sure about that Egg set, but no reason to add extra fluff if you don't want to. I will do my level best to ignore the event.
ZhengTann: Again, 20 moves is somewhat more than the usual number for level-up moves. Also, you ought to include a list of egg move illegalities. Also, I'm not entirely sure where you are getting your ingame tutors from - the Pt and HGSS Tutors don't exist in BW, after all.
The Reptile: I think you'll need a more detailed list of illegalities than the one you've already given. Other than that, moves such as Facade, Round, and Giga Impact are usually definite inclusions on all fully-evolved Pokemon, so you may want to think about including those. 26 moves in level up is a full 10 more than the usual limit of 16 - not sure whether that was intentional, but it seems excessive. Only other thing I can see is that Aqua Ring and Coil seem like rather bland moves to end a level-up list on, especially when the highest-level moves are typically the most powerful.
breh: Yes, Frustration and Return count as 1 VGM for counting purposes. Rain Dance is supposed to be a VGM, but Venoshock is not. Nothing else I can see.
Korski: Nothing to change aesthetically.
Banryu: Uncannily similar to mine, but other than that, nothing really wrong with it.
Nyktos: Nothing to speak of barring the Synthesis question, and as you said, there's no real way to avoid having to use it.
MCBarrett: Again, Pt and HGSS Move Tutors don't exist in BW. Other than that, there's nothing that sticks out, save possibly changing your formatting a tad to make it a bit easier on the old eyes.
forestflamerunner: 19 moves in level-up is quite a few, and Explosion at lv.6 is a bit eyebrow-raising, since typically it's quite a high-level move (the only exceptions I can think of are the Regis). Also, you said that you gave it all the moves that all Pokemon get by TM, yet you didn't give it Facade. Also, egg illegalities would be helpful. Not sure about your move tutors, but it's a nice idea I suppose.
Fritzmonger: Starmie is genderless, so cannot pass on Recover or Rapid Spin. Nothing aesthetic to change.
Mari: You have listed the combination of Memento and Toxic Spikes as being learned by "Toxic Spikes" - I do not believe this combination is legal. Nothing else here.
Take what you will from this.
Thanks for the feedback, BMB. Any similarities between ours are coincidental, trust me. :0 I started working on my post before yours was up. If yours HAD been up then I probably would have neglected to post mine, so I prefer to look at it in the light that we simply had similar thought processes on it.
I'm a little worried that my egg movepool might be a tad swollen, actually. Have been trying to work out what would be best to remove while allowing Mollux to still have optimal versatility.
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