Amoonguss: Just Amoonguss
Our favorite mushroom is making a return! With Black 2 and White 2 only days away, the metagame is sure to change a bunch! One of the big changes include the introduction of Keldeo, the fourth musketeer. Along with keldeo, many other pokemon have improved with new DW abilities and new move tutor moves... Amoonguss is one of them. Everyone who has played DW OU knows that Amoonguss is a great check to Keldeo and Breloom, two huge threats in the meta. Now that Regenerator is released for regular OU, Amoonguss will surely rise up from the bottom of the tiers. Amoonguss has many things going for it. Great Bulk, great movepool, Great ability, Great Typing, and the ability to check the top threats in the meta makes it a very desirable pokemon when team building. Lets have a closer look at Amoonguss, shall we?
Amoonguss's first trait that stands out is its typing. The primary typing is grass. Grass has always been mediocre in terms of defense and offense. Over the generations, grass types have had tons of weaknesses, as well as pokemons with resistances to them. However, grass typing is probably the most anti-metagame defensive typing right now. It is a very great typing to have in this weather metagame. It might have nasty 5 weaknesses (fire, ice and flying being the most common as well as a weakness to the common u-turn), but grass gets one of the nicest resistances ever. It resists water (which is great in a metagame that is dominated by scalds and rain, not to mention the upcoming spamming of keldeo hydro pumps), ground (Earthquake is one of the most common coverage moves, and is EVERYHWERE), electricity (great under rain thanks to thunder), and grass itself. These resistances easily overshadow its many weaknesses, and allow it to thrive in this metagame filled with water attacks and volt switches everywhere. Its secondary typing makes it even better. Poison typing brings two more weaknesses to the table (psychic and ground, but ground is neutered by the grass typing) but also brings resistances to bug, fighting and grass itself. (and also poison, but meh). These two combined gives it a very great defensive typing resisting great offensive types (water, electric, fighting, grass) and being neutral to other important ones (ground, bug).
Typing alone isn't the only thing that makes Amoonguss great. With the addition of BW2, Amoonguss finally gained... Regenerator. This is a huge "FU" to Tangrowth who has been taking its spot for all this time. Regenerator is great for defensive pokemon as they can now serve as defensive pivots to deter certain attacks. It also gives Amoonguss semi-reliable recovery. (synthesis sucks in this meta) With the combination of leftovers, regenerator, and clever switching, one will be able to get Amoonguss back to full health in no time. The best thing about regenrator is that it pairs up with other pokemon very nicely. One great partner is Slowbro, which when combined with Amoonguss becomes an impossible duo to break through. This combination of a regenerator duo will be a big FU to volt-turn cores. They also cover each other's weaknesses very well, as well as covering threats on different ends of the attacking spectrum.
The movepool also makes Amoonguss a great pokemon. Amoonguss has the best support move in the game, spore. Amoonguss is one of the few pokemon that has access to spore, and is the most defensive of the group. This makes amoonguss very scary as it has the ability to get rid of a counter or a major threat for almost the whole game (with the sleep mechanics). Spore is great and all, but Amoonguss also has access to other status moves like stun spore, which allow it to hinder many threats coming in after a spored pokemon. It also has access to clear smog, which allows it haze even when taunted, as well as a great STAB move in giga drain. These are just some of the reasons why Amoonguss is great.
The Stats and The Movepool
Amoonguss (M) @ Leftovers
EVs: 252 HP / 40 Def / 216 SDef (I found that 252 Hp / 4 Def / 252 SDef is better)
Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
- Giga Drain
- Clear Smog / Stun Spore
- Hidden Power [Ice]
This is probably the set that almost everyone will use. And probably the best one in the new meta. One of the biggest things that will run acorss players' minds when they first decide to utilize amoonguss is, "Should it take physical hits, or Special hits?" And this is perfectly understandable because Amoonguss is one of those lucky pokes with balanced defense stats. The best way to look at the dilemma is to look at its resistances. It x2 resists water and electric and fighting, while x4 resisting grass. With the plethora of special water attacks and electric attacks in this rain-dominated metagame, it is clear that one should go for a more special defensive spread. This is bolstered by the fact that its greatest partner, slowbro, is a great physical wall. With its Great special bulk and acceptable physical bulk, this amoonguss can put a stop to many metagame threats including but not limited to keldeo and voltturn.
Lets first talk about its ability to check Keldeo first. Keldeo will undoubtedly make a huge impact on the BW2 metagame. With its powerful STAB rain boosted hydro pumps and the ability to demolish special walls with secret sword, there is no reason anyone shouldn't be scared. Although the top sets are still unknown, it will definitely be running hydro pump and secret sword, and a hp of some sort (most likely ghost for those pesky jellicent.) Now, great defensive pokes like jellicent and latias (even tentacruel) will be beat with some luck and some calm minds under keldeo's belt, but not this guy, with access to spore and stun spore and clear smog and other things.. here are some calculations. ( i used the max sp. defensive version that i listed on the bottom with slowbro As I feel that this will be more popular as most teams will appreciate the extra sp.defense )
As you can see, Amoonguss can switch into ANY SINGLE MOVE MADE BY KELDEO. if it is specs under rain, it is never KO'ed (VERY SLIM CHANCE to be 2HKOED with rocks) and will be able to spore it and switch and automatically gain 33 percent of its health back. If its a calm mind variant, you can switch in on the calm mind and spore it as it attacks you. (this is troublesome with lum berry variants, but they are significantly weaker and you should run toxic spikes if this worries you ;) )
Amoonguss is probably one of the greatest checks to Keldeo.
Another big recent threat that it checks is breloom.
Breloom is a recent addition to the metagame with a new tool in technician. With mach punch, spore and bullet seed (also SD) it can sweep very easily. Amoonguss is a very good counter to breloom also with its great typing. I used 252 HP / 40 Def / 216 SDef for amoonguss and Adamant 252/252 breloom
As you can see, amoonguss can switch into any move and haze/2hko with clear smog.
Another threat that Amoonguss checks pretty well is voltturn. Now i believe that tangrowth was hyped to be a great voltturn counter, so im going to directly compare these two. (with rotom-w and scizor). Calculations: (umm... ill show both physically and specially defensive sets
As you can see, the specially defensive amoongus takes the u-turn as good as tangrowth, while the physically defensive Amoonguss flat out own tangrowth in terms of being able to counter volt-turn.
Thundurus. He has been banished to Ubers, but there are talks about him being retested. So i added some calcs for both the therian form and the normal form.
LOL guess what guys. a +2 LO Therian Thundurus (the one with 145 sp.attack) can NEVER OHKO amoonguss.
Normal Form Earthquakes: (assuming choice scarf)
Therian Form Earthquakes: (assuming choice scarf)
Specially Inclined Sheer Force Landorus (trust me, it will be popular)
Even the specially defensive mushroom is never OHKOed by a single attack. wow
The other genie was very sad :(
so here it is.
LO hurricane from normal form: 252 SpAtk Life Orb Tornadus Hurricane vs 252 HP/252 SpDef Amoonguss (+SpDef) : 95.83% - 112.5%
75% chance to OHKO
LO hurricane from therian form:252 SpAtk Life Orb Tornadus Hurricane vs 252 HP/252 SpDef Amoonguss (+SpDef) : 88.19% - 103.47%
25% chance to OHKO
This just got a lot more serious. A chance to live a LO hurricane?
Slowbro (M) @ Leftovers
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SAtk
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Flamethrower / Thunderwave
- Slack Off
Amoonguss (M) @ Leftovers
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SDef
Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
- Giga Drain
- Clear Smog / Stunspore
- Hidden Power [Ice]
This is probably the best 2-poke defense core that is. I remember when i popularized in my warstory last year when i used it with tangrowth, Slowbro, and Heatran, but this is way better.
First of all, they have amazing type synergy. They are great at blocking each others weaknesses (like electric and grass by ammonguss, ice and fire by slowbro, etc) and they are able to block attacks from different ends of the attacking spectrum because slowbro is a great physical wall while amoonguss cockblocks all special attacks. Furthermore, they do not lose offensive presence, as they hit from 100 sp. attack and 85 sp. attack respectively with moves like scald, psychic, flamethrower, giga drain, and ice beam/hp ice. They can also parashuffle extremely well (as they force a lot of switches) and they can check many common threats with the help of clear smog and spore from ammonguss. For the purpose of this regenerator core, max defenses on contrasting sides of the defense spectrum is optimal to block hits, and this core is just amazing. Pokemon like heatran make this core even more amazing, also forming a FWG core.
ALL DONE. now discuss :D
(also saved for other stuff)
EDIT: btw, thanks to Birkal for allowing this thread :)
with regenerator and a defensively balanced ev spread this is like best preliminary switchin to choiced terrakion / keldeo since it can scout the move and either resist, or switchout and regain most lost hp. this is pretty big i guess
*252 HP/252 SpDef Amoonguss*
The set you posted only runs 216 SpD. Change the calculations. Also your calcs don't take into account that Keldeo is not running a positive nature.
besides that this might be interesting. What are some of the other things that set it apart from tangrowth for walling besides Keldeo, spore and Volt/turn?
If it seems like I'm being depressing, it's because I want to count my chips before I cash em in. I just want to know if maybe we're overhyping it for checking Keldo. (Mind you that's not an easy feat, I'm just saying we shouldn't overhype it for only a few reasons.)
This seems pretty cool, ive always liked Amoonguss but didn't want to run it without regenerator. It seems to have a REALLY nice niche use as a solid physically defensive grounded pokemon with reliable recovery and the ability to combat Keldeo and volt-turn. At the moment Im focusing on another team (roost Gliscor abuse is to much to pass up lol), but after ive had my fun I will be sure to make an Amoonguss team. One this that does strike me for a defensive pokemon is the lack of hazards, which is why I am hasty to put it together with Slowbro. It also looks like you need another pokemon to dispatch of a sleeping Scizor (as it can't do anything to it), probably Jellicent.
Amoongus gets regenerator in-game in Black and white 2
Time to wreck some Volt-Turn
Amoonguss' in game arrival couldn't have been more impeccable with the introduction of Keldeo and the giant amount of Volt-turn use ;.; It almost as if GF knew >_>
Amoongus does have a limiting movepool only a handful of good options. But those options perfectly meld together into one good set. He should be good fit on defensive teams with the ability to absorb Toxic Spikes (this is big), pseudo-hazing, and sleep. He can also be used on offensive teams for that deadly sleep (you do not want something to sleep vs offense). It isn't outdone by Breloom since it can deal with water attack much more consistently.
One move that could really give a boon to Amoonguss is Knock Off. Sleep something and hit the switch to get rid of its item. It is possible since Amoonguss recieves a ton off utility moves. Hopefully it doesn't become like Whimsicott were everyone realized that the utility poke for utility alone just wasn't worth it and slapped a offensive member over it.
What I am happy about the most is that there is finally another defensive option to diffuse rain offense in the tier; Celebi and Gastrodon take way to much pressure in that regard. Amoonguss I welcome you to OU with welcoming arms!
Yea Amoonguss is going to be rather cool. I think hyping it as a full on counter to Volt Turn is a bit much (losing 2/3 to Scizor U-Turn is something id exploit, eg bringing in Landorus to U-Turn) but it certainly does really well. Spore is kinda the icing on the cake since you have that ability to "KO" something thanks to the sleep mechanics. Amoonguss really sounds like a great "glue" pokemon and I expect to see it getting a fair bit of use.
As someone who hit 1611 in Beta DW with Amoonguss, as well as 1580 on Smogon DW with Amoonguss on a Rainstall, I can assure you Amoonguss is one of THE best utilities to have on a stall team, balance team, or just an offensive team that needs a defensive pivot.
I don't think people realize that Amoonguss can take practically any hit, and it can Regenerate a literal infinite amount of HP back, which it will over time. It is one of the best Pokes you can use on stall because it stops:
Breloom (all kinds except some Subpunch, even still it can take a Spore and it WILL wake up later)
On my 1611 account, I had a team with mixed defensive Amoonguss, physically defensive Slowbro, and specially defensive Sub Heatran, and that core would just flat out never die at times. It was also notorious for breaking stall if it could kill their Skarm/Spiker, which all of them can at least threaten with (Amoonguss can Spore, Tran can Plume, Slowbro can Scald for a burn or Flame if you have it), and then you can quite literally just switch between Amoonguss and Slowbro to PP stall if you really want.
Heatran-Amoonguss-Slowbro (can we call it HAS?) is going to be the death of Voltturn and is by far the best 3 poke defensive core I have ever used; it has all the tricks you could need (most statuses, phasing, Rocks, something to stop sweepers, a win in a PP stall, good typing, etc.) and it will rock the metagame.
Also: physically defensive and mixed Amoonguss is just as good as if not better than specially defensive Amoonguss due to the popularity of Landorus and Terrakion (Max Max Amoonguss can take +2 LO Terrakion Sedge if you need it to), and it can take on waters and Keldeo fine MOST OF THE TIME even without the insane amounts of special defense invested.
BTW Amoonguss is the best Poke in Dream World along with Genesect (on PO that is, havent played Smogon DW in a while, but it was still very good there.)
Edit: @kurashidragon I did mention that I did use the fully specially defensive EVs for the set, but I will add the balanced calcs later
Edit2: @kurashidragon Keldeo should always be timid, I have not seen a modest one, so the calcs are valid
James? I guess haha.
Also, a few things i skipped over:
1. HP Ice is FAR superior to HP Fire, in case anyone was wondering. Unless you absolutely need as much Scizor protection as possible, HP Ice is MUCH more convenient for Rocks + Clear Smog + KO on Dnite.
2. Physically Bulky, Mixed, and Specially Bulky are all very good and can take hits from both spectrums, and neither are OHKOd by just about any unboosted attacks (hyperboles aside obviously).
3. Clear Smog is also very much preferable as far as just being a solid defensive pivot; Stun Spore provides a bit more team support whereas Clear Smog flat out lets it survive longer by screwing up common stat boosters such as BU Loom and Conk.
Definitely a very nice addition to the meta to check the crazy offense of Keldeo and gen 5 in general. The combo with Slowbro is also really, really nice, though I worry about their ability to take dragon attacks. (Notable with Outrage DD MoxieMence and Haxorus presumably getting better with Fire Punch)
Oh HAHAHAHA AUTOCORRECT. I will change it immediately
And I have to agree with the hidden power. Hidden power fire I find is useless as amoonguss will many times be under rain to counter Keldeo and other threats, and Hp fire under rain is rather pathetic.
I am uneducated in the fields of the three sets, but I will experiement.
Another thumbs up for clear smog because it is such a unique move with low distribution. Hazers are rare, and a move that can haze and damage? Thank you. But scizor is a pain still.
Edit: has anyone tried slowking instead of slowbro? It makes a better mixed wall, I heard, and it has access to dragon tail. This with mixed defense amoonguss (or physically defensive amoonguss with specially defensive slowking) might be interesting against volt turn as dragon tail will mess up switches
Out of curiosity, what mons can punch through the Amoonguss + Slowbro core by themselves?
SD (or Guts) Heracross
Chandelure (even without sun I believe)
Tornados (Hurricane hurts)
Banded Haxorus (I believe)
The great thing is that Heatran walls all of these (except Heracross but nothing walls Heracross) and Heatran also completes the FWG core
And some of these Amoonguss can put to sleep after taking a hit.
EDIT: I generally believe that sun teams (between grass attaks and fire attacks)trouble this core, which makes Heatran a great choice again.
Another interesting thing is that the core counters each weather very well. Slowbro for sand, amoonguss for rain, Heatran for sun. (screw hail)
Oh, HELL yes. I used this monster before DW was established, and from what I tested back then, he was a very, very sturdy defensive pivot in early BW. Can't wait to get back into OU when the move tutors / abilities / formes are released.
Yes, just fucking yes. I'm tired of the facing rainstall, and once Regenerator Amoonguss comes out, I can use it in conjunction with Regen Slowbro AND Heatran to make the untouchable F/W/G core.
Recently I played with Amoonguss and reached number 3 on the DW OU ladder (More of number 2 because number 1 and 2 were the same person). He is probably my favorite DW OU Pokemon and is definitely underrated. I also agree that he works very well with slowbro, but honestly I had more success with Trick Room Reuniclus as a partner because if he gets a free turn to switch in because of spore and then sets up trick room with out taking damage, all hell is gonna break lose. He is better as a utility counter on offensive teams than being a stall mon because offensive mons just love a pokemon that can switch into the hard hits for them and then spore to allow them to set up. If Garchomp gets retested he is almost unstoppable with the free turn to use substitute and then swords dance. He is definitely a top tier mon that really is underrated. Oh, and yeah, HP Ice totally outclasses HP fire no matter what. And any crap that he does not hard counter Keledo is sooo untrue, as the water pony (I guess it is a water horse now) can't do too much, especially if you keep the offensive pressure up.
I tried it today and worked effectively, this helped me counter Volt-Turn.
I have also tried this, and yes it helps counter Volt-Turn very effectively.
Im wonderin how exact this combats Breloom, sure clear smog gets rid of its boosts, but its seems like it would just put you to sleep again, your it seems like your really just rolling that you don't get a bunch of sleep turns.
@ Scarfwynaut, really the only way you're 100% countering Breloom with Amoonguss is assuming that something else is already put to sleep, meaning that you can either Clear Smog away the boosts or smack it with Hidden Power Ice / Clear Smog. (Is Technician released yet? If so,then Spore / Stun Spore also work.)
Also tbh I played DW a lot before this (and the current metagame is shaping up to be a lot like DW), and I always used a spread on Amoonguss of 252 HP / 36 Def / 220 SpD with a Bold Nature. The only way that Keldeo is beating you anyways is possibly a Choice Specs HP Ice, but even then you can just switch back out to a mon that can take it, meaning you really only have to take ~30%. Either way, I think that spread is best because you can still take all the special attacks that Amoonguss should be tanking (e.g. Volt Switch, U-Turn, etc.). +6 Serperior Leaf Storm does something outrageous like 40% lol. I mean, you're not really going to be tanking a Fire Blast or anything, so there's no point in consolidating your physical defense when you could spread it out and still have great defenses on both sides.
This is the end of Toxic Spikes!
I saw the bulk potential of Amoonguss before when I used it in 2on2 battles (It's a beast with Anger Powder). But now its full potential in Standard OU has been enabled. I sometimes used Glare Arbok as a sponge for Fighting moves and Toxic Spikes before (It is a nice Conk check) But soon I will use Amoonguss instead. It is very helpful in this rain-polluted metagame due to its Water and Electric resistances - the only defect is its Hurricane weakness, however ...
@Wynaut, Clear Smog does upwards of 60% to Breloom, so it both removes its boosts AND 2HKOs non-Sub Poison Heal versions.
With Sub Poison Heal variants, just let something else get Spored and then Amoonguss has literally nothing to fear from Loom; even Specially Defensive Amoonguss can take on Loom 1 on 1 no problem even IF you dont have something else asleep (again, normally).
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