The Water Emperor Rises
This Threat list is based of what I've fought with this team that have a trouble with it.
This is a neat team with a great use of Empoleon, taking advantage of common rain teams. I like how Forretress supports the rest of your team providing you with Spikes and Rapid Spin support which is especially helpful for Volcarona and Haxorus. One problem I have noticed, is the huge reliance on Forretress. Given the offensive nature of your team, preventing hazards from stacking on your side of the field is very important. Especially with Pokemon that are Stealth Rock weak, as well as Choiced users. You may find it hard to keep continuously switch in Forretress to spin away said hazards as well as avoiding the common Magnezone and Magneton combination among Drag Mag teams which does look very threatening to your team. Once Forretress is gone, you lose your main switch in to a lot of common threats, especially the Dragons. To help with this weakness, I think that you should try Volt Switch > Pain Split. Volt Switch Forretress would help your team out a lot more in my opinion. It allows you to escape from Magnezone and Magneton as they switch in, and helps you gain momentum in your favour. Given that Forretress is very bulky and very slow, usually your Volt Switch will go after your opponent, easily giving you free switch ins for your other Pokemon. It also gives you a use for the Special Attack investment you've given to your Forretress.
On an offensive team that forces switches easily, I do think you could make much greater use of the hazards available to you. While Forretress may have trouble utilizing both Spikes and Stealth Rock, I think that you could definitely try out an Offensive Stealth Rock Mamoswine over your current Choice Band set. To me, it does seem like Mamoswine is your main answer to the genies and dragons in general. If they switch in on Mamoswine when it is locked into Earthquake, they get a free turn of setup as you have to switch, and then they can hit anything on your team hard. This means that you will have difficulty trying to Rapid Spin away hazards, and in turn have an even harder time switching in Mamoswine to deal with the aforementioned threats. The set I have proposed gives you Stealth Rock support, while still maintaining great offensive power. The loss of power from Choice Band is more than made up for by a combination of Stealth Rock and a Life Orb hit from Mamoswine. Mamoswine is very anti metagame right now and can force a lot of switches very easily, giving you a lot of free opportunities to set up Stealth Rock, while still applying offensive pressure on your opponent. In conjunction with the hazards from your Forretress, you can quickly rack up hazard damage on your opponent, putting them into OHKO range for the rest of your team members.
One thing I do see with this team is the lack of a good revenge killer. While Politoed is equipped with a Scarf, it is still easily outsped by common base 115s and and higher such as Starmie, Jolteon and Tornadus. Even Dragons at +1 and common scarfers outspeed, such as Latios, Offensive Dragonite, Haxorus and Salamence. Politoed does not bring a lot of offensive power to the table, and can often be used as setup fodder very easily, as a lot of common things resist it's main STAB and coverage moves. I think that you should change your current Choice Scarf Politoed into a Defensive Politoed set. While Choice Scarf Politoed makes great use of the Rain and it's STAB, I do think a more defensive set would be more beneficial to your team. It gives you another mon to take hits well, and given that other weathers are still relatively common, it maximizes the length your weather is dominant in a match. It also gives you Toxic support, as well as potential burns from Scald that can help whittle down physical threats that do seem like they are a problem for your team. It helps you check Terrakion which does seem like a big threat to your team when played correctly. While you lose a Choice Scarfer, you gain status, an extra defensive Pokemon and ultimately longer weather which can be important in relation to your other team members.
Finally, as a result of losing your Choice Scarfer, you may have troubles with opposing scarfers that you fail to revenge and rely on Mamoswine even more to deal with them. I do feel like a Choice Scarf Terrakion would be a much better fit over your Focus Sash Haxorus. Choice Scarf Terrakion allows you to revenge the things Politoed failed to, as well as bring a lot more offensive power. In combination with your Mamoswine, you have a reliable answer to common genie forms and dragons as you can outspeed and revenge them, stopping them from ploughing through your team. Haxorus really needs a free turn or two before it can do anything, where as Terrakion immediately poses a threat and can form as a great late game revenge killer when hazards are up and the fighting resists are down.
Cool team, hope I helped!
Misterdavus Hi, this is a great time and really enjoyed the use of which is an Empoleon Pokemon with a great potential and that was forgotten after the end of 4th Gen, I believe is best Substitute instead of Fire Blast, Fire Blast in spite of maintaining a big damage even with the rain after a Quiver Dance, Hurricane and Bug Buzz already do a fine job on the offensive and Volcarona is not a Pokemon that after taking some status can not work very well, I suggest instead of Substitute Fire Blast so you can protect yourself from status effects besides having the confidence to setupar Quiver Dance without fear of taking any critical or major damage in your volcarona if put Leftovers Substitute suggest in place of Life Orb to increase the lifetime of the Volcarona, Mamoswine is very good with Choice Band Choice Scarf but with it can be a surprise to any team, I suggest you switch to Stealth Rock Spikes in Forretress, Spikes is a good thing however you will need to turn lives to use it and a good opponent does not turn left free for you so easily besides Spikes not to damage Flying and Pokemon with levitates which can become very boring, because Stealth Rock from 25% in Pokemon as Thundurus-T, T-Tornadus, Salamance among others that are Pokémon that are appearing well, besides that 25% of damage to the Ninetales in a war Wheater and always good return for Lum Berry Focus Sash in Haxorus so you can heal the confusion after Outrage or even recover from any negative status (Burn / Toxic / Paralyze) that may hinder your sweeper with Haxorus, Cool Team Hope I Helped.
Hey man great team, Luvdisc from me.
I second Jimbon's suggestions for the team. forretress is great gets on alot of the teams I craft. However being heavily reliant on it with no get out of jail free card from magnezone will ruin any attempt to a stop dragmag core. However, I Say instead to use choice scarf Haxorus instead of terrakion. Even with terrakion, a Healthy dragonite can make you regret using it. plus Volcarona and Mamoswine would open a massive water weakness you can't afford to be exploited on a rain team. Scarf haxorus and mamoswine make a solid revenge kill core that work in tandem to one another. Haxorus kills bulky threats where mamoswine can take down faster threats such as +1 salamence.
For Scarf Haxorus, All you would need is earthquake in place of dragon dance. Outrage and earthquake have great synergy together when under mold breaker. If you want, you can change super power or aqua tail to dragon claw or dual chop. It is optional but they both provide a safer stab should Outrage not be favorable in some situations.
Hey man really cool team :) Love how it uses SubPetaya Empoleon (my favorite rain sweeper). Jimbon already gave some really good fixes so not much else I can say really except that it earns a luvdisc from me. Also that I didn't realize the pinch berries were released, so now I'll defiintely Empoleon.
Well, well, well, what a team you have there! I hardly see Empoleon in OU anymore, poor little guy.
I am going to say that you make a good use of Haxorus's new toy in Aqua Tail, and use what is probably its best set, Dragon Dance + 3 attacks. I suggest you be very careful with Outrage, and eliminate any steels first. Superpower works on some, but for ones neutral to Superpower, namely Metagross and Forretress, you may want to lure them in and eliminate them with Volcarona first.
This is the classic Volcarona rain and anti-rain variant because Hurricane is your third attacking move. While I would keep Hurricane, I would change two things about it:
Switch Life Orb to Leftovers: After a boost or two, you'll be doing enough damage that it isn't enough to sacrifice health for every time you use an attack move, especially with the absence of Roost and Giga Drain. Second of all, you should get rid of Fire Blast and put Fiery Dance in its place, because it has a better accuracy, more PP, and, most importantly, a 50% chance to boost Special Attack.
If you're worried about whether you should put Superpower on Mamoswine, don't be. Its move set is fine as it is, as long as Haxorus continues to run Superpower.
The last thing is Forretress:
Switch Spikes to Stealth Rock because it only takes one turn to set up, hits Levitating dragons, and makes it much harder for opposing Volcarona to set up and try to sweep. Also, it makes no sense that you are running 56 SpA EVs and no Special Attacks. You are better off placing these in Attack to buff up Gyro Ball or adding them to Defense/Special Defense.
Please consider these suggestions as you are trying to improve your team. :)
Thanks for the compliments and Luvdisc, men. Unfortunately, PS! is down so I can't test what you suggest to me.
Yes, I realized that Magnezone is Forretress' greatest enemy, and I didn't thought about Volt Switch, thanks! It'll be great for scouting, but I don't want to miss Pain Split so maybe replace it with Gyro Ball?
And I didn't think about SR Mamoswine too, so I definitely try that! I'll keep Spikes for Forry.
Defensive Politoed sounds good too.
But I'm unsure about CS Terrakion since Expert Physics also suggest CS Haxorus, I'll try both and see who is better.
anyway, thanks for this great rate ^_^
I think I don't want Substitute Volcarona after all, because in some situation that the weather changed, Hurricane will have a shaky accuracy, and with Fire Blast I can still roast those Grass-types on opposing sun team. But I'll switch Life Orb with Leftover since I find out that my Volc dies very quickly.
I'm planning to use SR Mamoswine so no Scarf.
And as stated above, I keep Spikes since Mamo has SR.
I actually have tried Lum Berry on Haxorus and it's a pretty good status absorber but otherwise not satisfying me.
Pretty much what I said to Jimbon, I still deciding whether to use Hax or Terra.
Yeah, Tornadus-T is pretty hard to face, and CS Haxorus is looks good and if I don't plan to switch it with Terrakion. SR Mamo is pretty much what I said to Jimbon.
Yeah, I'll switch LO with lefties on Volc, and Fiery Dance? I may opt that but with the existence of Ditto I'm not sure.
For Forretress, that SpAtk EVs was a mistake, but I'll going to use Volt Switch after all, and I'm still keeping Spikes.
I'll add my threat list now.
edit: added threat list, also I changed the title too! I haven't test the change until PS! is up.
Hey Misterdarvus, I am shadowkid17, I swear that name is so old and Outdated, but thats ok. I have not posted, a team rating or anything like that in forever. However I saw Empoleon Coming back with His DP Prime and I simply had to give you a rating. Now the only way I was able to get anymore glimpse into this team, was of course to use it. Now I can See that Volcarona, LOVES! Giga Drain. That and Putting Ice Beam on Empoleon are Quite Wonderful. This May Seem Strange, but in Testing Empoleon since His DP Prime, I Personally Have Always Been Incredibly Fond of His Physical Priority Aqua Jet, and With Rain and Life Orb It Destroys Frail Threats, that Normally scare Empoleon Out Such As Infernape, Terrakion, You Know the things, That Have the Ability to Ohko it, Well Now Empoleon Can Murder them With Rain Boosted Aqua Jet. I am so Tempted to Try Expert Belt on it and see if He Can Damage Everything else. I am Also Considering Brick Break, as Aqua Jet Revenges and Destroys, Even Jolteons, and Company. Brick Break Would Aid Alot Again Ferrothorn, But I personally Love his swords danced EQ's
Now if your focus is again to focus this entire team on The Classic Sub Petaya, Empoleon you will have to check Super Fast Stuff With CC's, and Thunderbolts, Etc. As You Will not have time to substitute, if they are going to Ohko You Anyway. Without Further Ado, On with the Team Rating.
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SAtk
• Perish Song
This Politoed formerly a Choice Scarf user, but Jimbon suggest me to use defensive Politoed. After testing, it works wonder! Increased its longevity and status spreader too! EVs basicaly just adjusted for maximum bulk, the choice for status is pretty much either Toxic or Scald, Toxic for bulkier pokemon, and spam Scald to physical attacker and hoping for burn, Protect for scouting opponent moves and one turn healing in the form of leftover. And Perish Song for phazing.
Something to consider:
- Perfect. 10/10 I also use a Bold Politoed, on My Team Works Great.
Trait: Flame Body
EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
• Quiver Dance
• Bug Buzz
• Giga Drain
Volcarona in rain nowadays not suprising anymore. I swapped LO to Leftover since I found out that it dies very quickly. Quiver Dance is its bread and butter move, and ready to sweep any unprepared team. This is not rain Volcarona anymore without Hurricane. Fire Blast still an option for Ferrothorn, and Fire Blast just cancel STAB in rain if I'm not mistaken? So it's still pretty strong. Oh, did I mention it cheks sun team too?
Something to consider:
Giga Drain over Fire Blast? I have trouble with Jellicent and Gastrodon I have tested How well that, works, and I can tell you Giga Drain is Wonderful. It Also Helps you against A Few Other Waters, and Such. Buz Buzz, and Hurricane, Hit Everything Else Hard Enough.
EVs: 248 HP / 204 Def / 56 SAtk
• Pain Split
• Rapid Spin
• Toxic Spikes
• Volt Switch
My choice for spinner to support Volcarona, and its fire weakness reduced in rain, so it pretty much a good choice. I wonder why few people use Pain Split Forretress, its actually good IMO and suprise some people. I chose Spikes because Mamoswine has its job for Stealth Rock. Volt Switch basically for scouting and my way to escape from Magnezone. [b] Perhaps I am the only one Who Missed this. Toxic Spikes. Makes it Heck on high water for normal empoleon switch ins. Heck if you had that and spikes, you would definitely make it easier for empoleon to set up And Make the Opponents Team A Total Wipeout.
Something to consider:
Trait: Thick Fat
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
• Ice Shard
• Icicle Crash
• Stealth Rock
Mamoswine got a slight update with Thick Fat compatible with its egg moves/pre evolution level-up moves, and good for checking Therians too. This Mamoswine formerly a Choice Band user but Jimbon suggest me to use LO Mamoswine with Stealth Rock so I don't have to give Forretress SR too. Ice Shard is pretty good to catching up Dragons and Ground/Flying types as well as Breloom. Icicle Crash if a form of stronger Ice move that suprisingly did 45% to Skarmory. the rest is oblivious.
Something to consider:
Replace with Gliscor
Something To Deal with Breloom, and Also Sponge the Fighting attacks, From Conkledurr, it Also Lets you Switch in, and Easily Fight back
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature Ability *Poison Heal*
@ Flying Gem
• Stealth Rock
Sets up your rocks, Eliminates Breloom. Gives you an Almost Perfect Switch in Too Jirachi, and Eliminates Tentacruel. All the Jobs, MamoSwine Was doing with better bulk and resistances. Acrobatics Flying Gem is Nothing to Play with. It does not check therians as Well, but I still feel like it can more than handle itself. I however feel that therian Landy can be checked as well with Politoed.
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
• Close Combat
• Stone Edge
• Rock Slide
Something to consider:
Classic Scarfer Always Works, in a Pinch.
Formerly a Haxorus, Terrakion did an awesome job for revenge killing, packing STAB Close Combat that better than Haxorus' Superpower. X-Scissor also good for Celebi and Lati@s. Stone Edge and Rock Slide together is depends of the situation when missing is a crucial thing.
Haxorus @ Lum Berry
Trait: Mold Breaker
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd
- Aqua Tail
- Dragon Dance
I am torn Between Outrage, and Dragon Claw.I am also torn for nature, as you want to hit as hard as possible, and as fast as possible. and Since you have nothing to lock in steels, you will need to check them before you attempt a blind outrage. However, the entire goal of this haxorus, is to tear MAJOR holes in the Opposing Team, and Be Able to Eliminate or Weaken Tons of Threats you Have Previously Mentioned.
EVs: 12 HP / 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 240 Spd
• Grass Knot
The star of the team, did you think Sub-Petaya Empoleon was deadly in DP? That rape became a double rape in BW. I was able to 2HKO a Tentacruel and Vaporeon (with Hydration) with Rain and Torrent boosted at +1, no kidding (well, after calculating by myself, there's 2 possibilites: My calculator was wrong, or those pokemon I mentioned is not EV'd properly). for you who doesn't familiar with this, this is how it works: use Agility, then subs until at Petaya Berry and Torrent range (about <25%) and sweep. the EV spread's explanation is quoted on Empoleon's DW analysis:"Special Attack is maximized for maximum power, giving Empoleon an easier time sweeping. 12 HP EVs are invested instead to make sure the Petaya Berry is activated after three Substitutes instead of four, so Empoleon is at 25% when attempting a sweep." Grass Knot replaced Ice Beam because I have big trouble with Jellicent and Gastrodon, and most Dragon-type are 2HKOd by Surf with above scenario anyway.
Something to consider:
Grass Knot or Ice Beam? sometimes I need to OHKO dragons anyway.
You need Ice Beam, Torrent Surf Ravages Anything Else That Does Not Outright Resist it.
All in all Mate it is a very Nice Team. I Hope all my Suggestions Help you. I've been researching this moveset of Empoleon Since 4th Generation and I am trying to make it work in OU. The Physical Variant Shows Prowess. But I like this set too. Good Luck with the Team, and Hopefully I can help you test it soon.
@Shadowkid17: Thanks dude, but I'll answer your suggestion
Anyway, thanks for the rating, I'll make a note for that Gliscor, and thanks for your bump!
Great team. When all priority is removed and Empoleon sets up Agility it's GG. Jimbon has done a great job improving the minor "faults" in this team, but I'd like to make one more suggestion: Try Substitute over Fire Blast on Volcarona. If you do this, you have an insurance you won't be revenge killed straight away by Tornadus-T and after a Quiver Dance, Hurricane will hit him very hard.
Hope I helped and Good Luck!
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