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Victini {BW2 Revamp}【QC: 4/3】
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-------------------------------- Status: Close to victory. QC Approvals: [jc104]* || [shrang]* || [Pocket] || [Harsha] GP Checks: [ ] || [ ] -------------------------------- *: QC approvals prior to establishment of Checks and Counters
OLD BW1 Analysis. Credit to SJCrew.
shrang's Proposition
http://media.pldh.net/pokemon/gen5/b..._shiny/494.png http://cap.smogon.com/web/media/types/psychic_big.pnghttp://cap.smogon.com/web/media/types/fire_big.png "I'll carry on fighting beside you until the very end." ~Fiora [Overview]
name: Physical Attacker move 1: V-create move 2: Fusion Bolt move 3: Brick Break move 4: U-turn item: Choice Band / Life Orb ability: Victory Star nature: Adamant / Jolly evs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe [SET COMMENTS]
name: Choice Scarf move 1: V-create move 2: Fusion Bolt move 3: U-turn move 4: Trick / Brick Break / Flare Blitz item: Choice Scarf nature: Adamant / Jolly ability: Victory Star evs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe [SET COMMENTS]
name: Final Gambit move 1: Final Gambit move 2: U-turn move 3: V-create move 4: Trick item: Choice Scarf nature: Jolly ability: Victory Star evs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Spe [SET COMMENTS]
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For the first set, AC mention Fighting Gem so its first Brick Break can hit Heatran / TTar as hard as the band version without being choice-locked.
Trick Room may also deserve an AC mention with max HP / max Atk to make better use of V-create. AC mention max attack / max speed for the Scarfer set, since some may want to hit hard with Victini. Mention Flare Blitz > Final Gambit as a powerful spammable Fire-type move when Victini does not want to slow down. |
Add a different scarfer set IMO, one that maxes speed and Atk, and doesn't use Final Gambit. I tested the set myself, and it just fucking nuked everything, as well as acting as a very good, long term revenge killer and Scout.
Final Gambit (in my opinion) is usually forced to sacrifice itself early (unless you have a spinner to avoid SR hassling you), but you hopefully take down a key pokemon on the opponents team. I would argue that the two sets are different enough to be included in the analysis. OO Zen Headbutt since I found it useful in doing more to Keldeo, but it has limited use outside of hitting all those common fighting types in 1 move (as well as Tenta). |
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The proposed set order for the analysis is listed below. Are there any changes that QC would recommend for Victini?
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Can't Final Gambit just be in the AC of the Scarf set?
Mabye mention how it's very, very similar to Darmanitan? Also the Final Gambit set likes Wish support. Blissey heals 3/4ths of Victini's HP and attracts Fighting moves Victini can come in on |
The Sets play too differently, one plays as more of a suicide lead, the other an actual revenge killer. The two sets also require a different EV spread, and I just think that its better off with two different sets.
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Call me crazy, but is a specially based mixed set possible? V-Create has an insane amount of base power (180) and it is backed by STAB, meaning even with little investment it still has the possibility to 2HKO Chansey. In addition, his special movepool has a large variety of options but most importantly a secondary STAB in Psychic. He does receive a large amount of competition from Infernape, but one of his perks includes having Thunderbolt to better get past bulky Waters.
Victini @ Life Orb Trait: Victory Star EVs: 56 Atk / 200 SAtk / 252 Spd Rash Nature (+SAtk, -SDef) - V-create - Thunderbolt / Energy Ball - Psychic - Focus Blast Thunderbolt / Energy Ball is a toss up. In exchange for hitting Jellicent, Vaporeon, and Politoed for less you have the ability to hit Gastrodon much harder. Tentacruel is already taken care of with STAB Psychic. |
I think that, though they might play a little differently, the scarf and band can be combined, and the life orb can be it's own set. The band and scarf sets are pretty much the same thing; they have almost the same moveset, and the same EVs.
And about PDB's set, what are you hitting harder with LO Thunderbolt that you're not hitting as hard with Fusion Bolt? The only benedfits to that set is Psychic, Energy Ball, and Focus Blast; which IMO aren't worth their own set. Still, Focus Blast nailing Heatrans for Sun support sounds delicious. Trinitrotoluene, don't forget to stress on Victini's strengths over other fairies- V-Create, Fusion Bolt, and ability to work wonders under the sun. |
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Right
Brick Break I kinda want mentioned in the 4th slot (on Scarf), but I guess an AC mention is o.k. Its really really nice for Terrakion, Tar, and Heatran, all of which pretty much don't give 2 shits about you otherwise. Mention that Victini really really wants weather. I used to use non weather a LOT, and while I had success with Victini on a non weather team (it was CB), when going up against rain, it was kinda like a deadweight. You really want to have the freedom to spam that nuke in V-Create, so I feel that having weather is almost essential for all sets. It doesn't even have to be Ninetales, just something that prevents it raining. (I know you brought up Ninetales, just stress in the analysis that keeping rain away is very important to Victini) OO Zen Headbutt (for the 2nd time). I might have missed it, and if you did then im sorry, however, I actually did find some good use for it in my testing. It did more to Keldeo, which I found useful, as well as hitting Toxicroak (under rain) / Keldeo / Amoonguss / Tentacruel / Terrakion / Infernape / Virizion / Breloom / Conkeldurr all in one move. Granted, V-Create hits harder on most of them, but there will be times you want to go for an end game sweep, or if the speed / Def / SDef drop is distasteful, and Zen Headbutt helps with that. Its not terrible, and I think its good in OO. |
IMO you should de-slash Trick from the first set and relegate it to AC. Walling Victini is virtually impossible outside of rain, and so I don't think there are many walls you need to Trick, if any. The two counters you listed, Dragonite and Salamence, do not mind a Choice Band too much most of the time (depending on the set they are running). The two moves it might replace are really quite important against the likes of Heatran, Tyranitar, Latios and Latias. And finally, if you are using a Life Orb, Trick is clearly useless.
Also, I'm really not sure Final Gambit is worth a set on its own. In order to achieve a one-for-one tradeoff, you need to support Victini by providing it a safe switchin and keeping hazards off the field, unless you are leading with it. Even then, you are far from guaranteed to KO the Pokemon you want to KO. Regardless, I think you should clarify that the main targets are weather inducers (ttar and politoed) which can take a hit from the normal scarf set, and are obviously important enough to sacrifice a Pokemon to remove. Also, in my opinion Zen Headbutt should be in AC on the first two sets. I think that better suggests how good it is, compared to the rubbish that normally ends up in OO. edit: Final Gambit set really doesn't need Fusion Bolt; it's weak enough even with no investment. I would rather have Trick in that last slot, since it's still as potent as ever without Attack investment. Several notable players have said to me that they like the set, and so I'm happy for it to stay for now. Please stress though, that the idea is to lead with it, or at least to use it very early in the game, rather than supporting it with Rapid Spin and Wish. |
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QC Approved 1/3 Provided you write a reasonable checks and counters section. |
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QC Approved 2/3 |
May we hold off on QC approvals until this analysis is actually completed? The Checks and Counters are still missing -_-;;
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Yea, definitely mention Dugtrio as teammates. Heatran and TTar are the bane of Victini and Drought Teams in general, and Dugtrio eliminates them for Victini to spam V-create.
You can mention teammates when using Victini outside of Drought teams. Other non-chlorophyll Grass mons such as Virizion, Breloom, and Celebi fits the bill. Dragon-types are also great for checking both Heatran and Water-types. Physical Attacker ~ Mention Fighting Gem. It has some cool points in bluffing Victini as choiced, while hitting Heatran / TTar, the main recipients of BB, as hard as possible, which Sun teams would definitely appreciate. ~ Mention Charcoal for 20% boost on its V-create without the LO recoil or being choice-locked Choice Scarf ~ Flare Blitz and Brick Break bullet points go under Set Comments, since they are slashed in the main set. ~ Mention that Adamant Victini's V-create is as powerful as Jolly Darmanitan's Flare Blitz, to illustrate its power. Other Option Quote:
~ Remove mention of ThunderPunch. ~ T-Wave and Will-O-Wisp deserves a mention for crippling its switch-in. T-Wave is nice for the same speed advantage provided by Trick Room. Will-O-Wisp provides the fast residual damage to quickly bring even bulky opponents such as Slowbro into V-create KO range; not to mention it cripples physical attackers. ~ Sunny Day is always worth mentioning to allow Victini to provide the favorable weather condition himself without the help of Ninetales. ~ Wouldn't hurt to mention some of its rich special movepool, such as STAB Psychic, Searing Shot, VStar-boosted Fire Blast, Focus Blast, and Thunder (not in Drought Team of course), SolarBeam / Grass Knot, and Shadow Ball, all of which can be used for some sort of mixed / special offense approach. It's worthy to note that Sunny Day + Focus Blast is nice for a KO against even 252 HP / 192+ SpD TTar after SR (this is assuming max SpA Victini) ~ Substitute is worth mentioning, since Victini is easily revenge-killed after the speed / defense drops. ~ Sleep Talk - Victini is naturally bulky and resists Breloom's STAB moves, making Sleep Talk a good fit. Checks & Counters ~ Should mention that getting SR up as early and long as possible is a nice way to checkmate Victini ~ Dugtrio deserves a special mention for quickly dispatching Victini locked into V-create. ~ Need more emphasis on how V-create can be used against Victini (without Trick Room), since it leaves it vulnerable to revenge-kills. Terrakion, Landorus, Latios, and Gengar for instance, don't even need Scarf to revenge Victini after the speed / special drop. Scarf Mence can attempt an Moxie Outrage sweep. ~ Although rare, physically defensive Hippowdown can remove the Sun-boost and stall out Scarf Victini's V-create. Caution readers to be wary of Final Gambit, though. ~ Other Sun Sweepers, such as Scarf Darmanitan and Chlorophyll mons w/ more than just Grass + Fire coverage can fuck Victini up after using V-create. |
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Yeah I shouldn't have approved this before it was finished sorry.
Anyway it looks fine now. Please add Tyranitar to Checks and Counters. It can actually take a Brick Break from the scarf set, and is notable for its ability to Pursuit a -1 Victini. |
Thanks for the changes, Trinitrotoulene.
Yes, plz add TTar back into Checks and Counters. Also mention how Scarf Darmanitan and LO Sawsbuck can easily revenge-kill Victini after V-create, given that the Sun is up. You also don't need the Ability row, since Victory Star is its sole ability. QC Approved (3/3) |
I would go ahead and remove Salamence from the Checks and Counters section considering most run Moxie, and even with Intimidate, it's taking 43% - 50% from V-create, while you take an additional 25% if Stealth Rock is on the field. Dragonite is shaky at best, though Multiscale allows you to sponge a bit better. Either way, these are generally too frail to take on Victini in the sun, so I'd just go ahead and remove them.
Oh and ummm.... QC Approved (4/3) edit: erm ok so to be clear, list them as checks instead of counters |
Harsha, Salamence and DNite are listed as checks, aka revenge killers, not as counters.
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@Pocket: Will do. @Harsha: Done that. I'll write this up once I'm done writing up Tyranitar. |
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