Close Their Eyes, Paralyze, then Neutralize (Peaked #1)
Not a week after posting my only good Ubers team, I catch wind of the TUberline Bridge challenge. Five of the best battlers would assemble and take challenges, and the one who would beat them all would get the coveted rainbow tuber. However, I couldn't do that without any fresh teams to use, so I set out to build a new one.
In my usual "throw a bunch of powerful stuff together" fashion, I created a rather mediocre team. I quickly found out that I should use some kind of supporter to help pave the way for my sweepers. Darkrai stood out, with its Dark Void making the battle 6-5 more often than not. However, I wanted a more support-oriented set rather than a sweeper, and left out Nasty Plot in favor of Thunder Wave. I didn't even know it got it, since I had never seen anyone use it. However, the surprise value from that put the battle in my favor a huge percentage of the time, as Darkrai felled all the Kyogres and Palkias switching in with a burst of electric energy. Now that 2 Pokemon on their team were little more than dead weight, they couldn't stand up to the power of my sweepers.
Now that you know how the team works, it's time to take a look:
At A Glance
Arceus @ Silk Scarf
EVs: 240 HP / 252 Atk / 16 Spd
IVs: 30 Def
- Swords Dance
- Brick Break
- Shadow Claw
This is a bulkier version of the standard Extreme Killer set and is part 1 of my sweeper duo. While Rayquaza is more of a wallbreaker with its ultra powerful Outrages, Arceus is usually the clean up, busting through the holes that Rayquaza and Kyogre make. I put it in the lead slot so that it doesn't give away that Darkrai or Genesect will be leading off, and even though it isn't entirely necessary to do so, it works for me quite a bit. Swords Dance boosts my Attack stat, and then ExtremeSpeed kills everything. Shadow Claw is needed to hit Ghost-types such as Giratina-O and Arceus-Ghost, and while it actually does slightly less to Lugia than ExtremeSpeed, the high critical hit ratio has helped me out on more than one occasion. Brick Break is something I put on to deal with Ferrothorn and other Steels, but quite frankly, it is pretty weak. Since I have Groudon on the team, I am considering using Overheat so that I can beat Ferrothorn and Skarmory better, but with the popularity of Kyogre and the fact that I am using it as well, it might be too unreliable, especially when Rayquaza also has Overheat, and a lot more power behind it.
Darkrai @ Focus Sash
Trait: Bad Dreams
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 Def
- Dark Void
- Thunder Wave
- Focus Blast
- Dark Pulse
This is a set I came up with when first making the team. The main purpose of the team was to cripple the enemy team as much as possible and then sweep with either Rayquaza or Arceus. While making the moveset for Darkrai, I found myself with an extra slot. I didn't want to use Nasty Plot, because that sucks early-game. Using Substitute would defeat the purpose of the Sash. So I scrolled through its movepool and came across the perfect option: Thunder Wave. After putting something to sleep with Dark Void, since no one wants to give Darkrai free turns by staying in while asleep, 9 times out of 10, the opponent will switch. Using this, I then cripple the switch-in with Thunder Wave, which is usually their scarfer coming in to finish me off. It works wonders, and since I can revenge kill pretty much anything that Darkrai paralyses, the match is pretty much 5-4 in my favor after like 3 or 4 turns, which is a huge advantage. Dark Pulse is the obvious STAB move, but I really wish it got Night Daze or something since it just barely misses the OHKO on Mewtwo, something people also like to switch into Darkrai for some reason. Focus Blast 2HKOes sleeping Ferrothorn and Dialga, who are two Pokemon that are sometimes left in for whatever reason.
Kyogre @ Choice Scarf
EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 Spd / 4 SDef
- Water Spout
- Ice Beam
Now that I have my early-game momentum grabber, I now need to start punching holes into the other team. Choice Scarf Kyogre drowns a ton of stuff in the Ubers metagame, so I went with that to start off with. At full power, Water Spout is truly terrifying in the rain, making it the main STAB move. Surf is the back up, for when I can't afford to be locked into Water Spout, such as against unboosted Arceus. Taking the ExtremeSpeed would weaken Water Spout a lot, so I don't want to be forced to switch out if they bring in something like Mewtwo, who could take the weak Water Spout and either set up or KO me. Ice Beam hits Dragons super effectively, but unfortunately only scores a 3HKO on Latias, allowing it to set up in my face. With Genesect and two priority spammers, however, I'm not worried about that too much. Thunder hits opposing Kyogre and is a good move all around for scoring random paralysis, further crippling the opposing team for Rayquaza and Arceus.
Groudon @ Leftovers
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Atk
- Stealth Rock
- Dragon Tail
- Fire Punch
Groudon functions as the team's defensive pivot, and prevents opposing Extreme Killer Arceus from running over me. The EV spread allows me to be 3HKOed by a +2 ExtremeSpeed, and then I can phaze it out with Dragon Tail. Stealth Rock is an excellent move for offensive teams, and helps my +2 Arceus guarantee the OHKO with ExtremeSpeed against Zekrom and Kyurem-W. It also helps take the edge off of Lugia, who now no longer has Multiscale to be an annoying piece of shit with. Earthquake is the obvious STAB move, and even without investment it does a lot of damage. Fire Punch hits Ferrothorn and Forretress for massive damage, preventing them from laying their hazards or spinning away mine. It also serves as a pseudo-STAB move in the sun against stuff like Lugia and Gliscor. Dragon Tail gets rid of dangerous set-up sweepers such as Rayquaza while also dealing good damage. However, I might replace it with Roar since Lugia's Sub isn't broken by Fire Punch most of the time.
Genesect @ Choice Scarf
EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 Spd / 4 Atk
- Bug Buzz
- Ice Beam
Genesect serves as a fast, powerful secondary Scarf user that doesn't exacerbate my Dragon weakness like Palkia would. Being a Dream World player since early BW1, I am well aware of how awesome Genesect is, but I have never tried it in Ubers. U-turn racks up damage while keeping the momentum on my side of the field, but due to the lack of investment it needs a Download boost to be able to deal good damage against anything but Psychic-types and Darkrai. I've put full investment in Special Attack due to the fact that I have far more special attacks than physical. U-turn grabs momentum and OHKOes Darkrai with a boost and heavily dents Mewtwo and the Latis. Bug Buzz serves as my other STAB move, and with a Download boost it hits pretty hard. Ice Beam hits Dragons and Groudon, which is especially helpful since I can revenge kill +1 Rayquaza with it since I outspeed it. Thunder hits Lugia and Ho-Oh for some damage, while also being a good neutral move to throw out if Bug Buzz is not an option for some reason.
Rayquaza @ Life Orb
Trait: Air Lock
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd / 4 SDef
- Dragon Dance
The other of my two sweepers and the team's wallbreaker, Rayquaza is awesome after a boost. I chose the Dragon Dance set over the Swords Dance set because I like the Speed boost that the former offers. I might want to try out the SD set though, since the DD set sometimes just doesn't have enough power. Outrage is my main STAB move, and it 2HKOes Lugia, OHKOes some Arceus formes, and in general just destroys almost everything it hits. Steel-types like Ferrothorn and Forretress can be pesky though, so that' where Overheat comes in. It makes a deadly pair with Air Lock, which prevents the rain from letting those two Steel-types get away with a 2HKO. It also allows me to revenge kill Excadrill very easily. ExtremeSpeed provides a second priority move for the team, and with Stealth Rock, Palkia and Kyogre are 2HKOed by it with no boosts. It also lets Arceus finish them off if I can't use it twice with Rayquaza.
Since Kyurem-W came out, I've forgotten just how annoying Lugia really is, since I'm used to being able to OHKO it with no issues whatsoever. Now that I'm using a team without it, though, Lugia has become a huge pain. The SubRoost set shuts down half of my team. Rayquaza is my best bet, since a +1 Outrage 2HKOes easily, but if it has Ice Beam instead of Toxic, that won't work either. If they let Darkrai put me to sleep, then Lugia becomes a lot less threatening, but that usually doesn't happen. This is the main reason why I'm considering Roar over Dragon Tail on Groudon.
Giratina + Steel-type cores
Giratina by itself is another wall that can give me problems due to Will-O-Wisp. However, Rayquaza can scare it away pretty easily because Giratina must be at full health to deal with it. Pair Giratina with a Steel-type though, and now begins a guessing game that screws me over if I lose. It also prevents Kyogre and Genesect from doing much since Steel-types resist Ice Beam. However, neither Giratina nor the Steel-type in question have reliable recovery, so wearing them both down is my best bet at beating them.
Perhaps my favorite part of teambuilding (read: the only part I like) is finding a cool new set, or just using an old one that has fallen out of favor. This kind of thing is what drives the metagame forward. As long as I have put the thought of "Gee, what would my team do if I ran into this new set" into at least one teambuilder's head, I feel like I've left an impact on the metagame. That is especially important in such a centralized metagame that we have here in BW2 Ubers. If all it takes to give you the edge is to change one moveslot, then what else could we come up with?
As always, rate, hate, and steal please!
I'm gonna STEAL this for sure, it's awesome.
Seriously, kudos on coming up with such a simple yet original Darkrai set. You're absolutely right when you say that Nasty Plot on Darkrai generally isn't worth it, as I've always found it difficult to sweep with him. Anyway, onto the rate I guess.
As you've pointed out, Lugia and Giratina are massive pains to deal with here. To remedy this, I think that you should use Shadow Force over Shadow Claw on Arceus, and also use a Life Orb, as this allows Arceus to massacre both of them with a boost:
Shadow Force: 447-528 (88.86 - 104.97%) -- 31.25% chance to OHKO Great Wall Giratina, and conveniently is always a OHKO after Stealth Rock.
Shadow Force: 445-525 (106.97 - 126.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO on Great Wall Lugia. If it has Multiscale still active when it comes in, it can still be taken out by a combination of Shadow Force and ExtremeSpeed, as ExtremeSpeed does 53.36 - 63.22% when Multiscale has been broken by Shadow Force. Life Orb will however take away from Arceus's bulk, so I guess you could use Ghostceus. You'll have a significantly weaker ExtremeSpeed though, which IS your main sweeping tool, so I don't recommend it.
My only other suggestions concern Genesect. First off, I think that you should run 100 Attack EVs on it to be able to OHKO Latias and Mewtwo after Stealth Rock. You could also try Iron Head over Bug Buzz, as it's your best move against Terrakion and the Kyurem formes, as your team seems to have a bit of trouble against them (Scarf Terrakion for example can efficiently stop your two sweepers). Flamethrower is also always an option to bring down hazard setters, but you seem to have those covered fairly well anyway.
Awesome team man, and I'm definetly gonna use it!
Using. Oh my god this team is fun. I'm using the base team with some of the suggestions that Cherub made right now. It's beastly. And you're so right about Darkrai. I haven't had a single real Uber player NOT swap immediately, and the Dark/Fighting as coverage, you hit pretty much the entire Tier.
Also, running the extra Attack on Gene is amazing. A ton of things in Ubers have high Special Defense, and many of them have the Psychic type too.
I may look into Iron Head too, but not seeing so many Terrorakion, and the Kyurem Forms go down easy to Kyogre.
This team is montrous, and, as a brand new Ubers player, I now have an 8/3 record, with the losses (other than the very first match lol) were to the same player. I love it! I wish I could duplicate this team style to other tiers, but nothing works like Darkrai or EKiller lol.
Edit for update:
Sitting at rank 17 on the ladder right now with a 28/7 record. Only having lost to a few haxy matches, or missing that crucial OHKO/Sleep with Darkrai, or just being outplayed in general, which has happened about 3 times. Always a close match though on those losses, which is good for me. (2 of the losses were to a Top 10 ranked member though, Rank 4 at the time.)
Trying Roar on Groudon right now. It's actually very nice, but Groudon seems to be my go-to Blazekin check at the moment. Folks seem to like putting up a Protect, which makes for an easy switch, takes that HJK or whatever they want and OHKOs back with EQ. I set up rocks all right, because nothing can really OHKO Groudon without hax or a lucky switch, so Rocks go up, Groudon either goes down swinging with EQ, or swap in to something more fun.
Genesect is my swapper. If I lose ANYTHING, Gene comes out for a UTurn, and out comes the proper pokemon. It's a nice bluff, considering, if Darkrai is down already and Mewtwo isn't, Gene takes it out no issues. Running 100 Atk/156 SpA because that OHKO on Mewtwo/Latias wins matches.
Everything else looks fine though. I am debating Specs > Scarf on Kyogre, but the speed is phenomenal, so it will probably stay Scarf.
But basically, as long as I can keep ekiller and Rayquaza off the field til there's only a couple pokes left, or at least a team full of battered fighters, Arceus especially goes to town on them, usually even having enough bulk to set up a SD and destroy everything.
Hey what's up Hawkstar!! Lovely Darkrai set <3
Firstly I truly recommend using the Physical Genesect set. It packs much more utility and hits a lot harder with U-turn, which is your main move. 252 Atk with Iron Head > Bug Buzz and Explosion > Thunder. Iron Head is a great STAB move if you can guarantee a kill with it, and Explosion is very strong once boosted, and can be extremely helpful in situations where you want, and often should, go out with a bang! And yes, definitely run Roar > Dragon Tail on Groudon, since you want to phaze Substitute users too, such as Lugia that troubles you and Ho-oh.
Now, to make your guessing game versus Giratina and a Steel-type, I'd recommend V-create > Overheat on Rayquaza. Its consequences aren't as bad as Overheat's, and it can utilize Dragon Dance to hit extremely harder. Even Choice Scarf Kyogre takes 67.82% minimum, which can be very helpful as your team has no dedicated counter to it.
To make it even easier against Lugia and Giratina, why aren't you using Choice Specs Kyogre? You already have a Choice Scarf user in Genesect, and Kyogre's brute force should aid your team greatly as its very offensive. Multiscale Lugias will almost never will have full HP thanks to Stealth Rock, and Thunder KOes 252 HP variants after a round of Stealth Rock damage. Giratina would not be able to tank Ice Beams and Water Spouts forever as well, as with such an offensive paced team it will not fare well.
Good luck m8!!
I generally don't reply to teams with filler (or at all), but this team is really cool.
My first BW Uber team was this with Terrakion > Genesect for obvious reasons, and no Thunder Wave on Darkrai. (but I'm assuming that's a new set (based on your description + I've never heard about it or seen it))
Obviously when you hit #1 it's hard to recommend anything that can be beneficial since it's pretty obvious the team works.
Again sorry I can't help but I just wanted to say congrats on the ranking and awesome team.
Edit: I'm gonna have to disagree with Furai on V-Create > Overheat. Unless you're running SD + Extreemspeed the -1 speed doesn't seem worth it. I think what you have now works perfectly fine.
Alright, I tried out a lot of the suggestions. Cherub's changes to Genesect's EV spread helped out a lot, as well as LO on Arceus. Shadow Force is something I've used once so far and it didn't work out all that amazingly but since I've only tried it once I'll keep it on for a while.
I changed Dragon Tail to Roar and I like that a lot better. I also loved Furai's idea of Specs Kyogre, but when I tried it out, it just seemed like a chore keeping its HP full, and I really missed the Speed. Both of my priority users now have Life Orbs, so I lose 10% + hazard damage every time I need to revenge something. Genesect isn't a good choice to function as the team's only Scarfer, since it can only really OHKO Darkrai, Mewtwo, Lati@s, and Dragons 4x weak to Ice Beam. I also agree with Faint on V-create. It was awesome against Forretress and Ferrothorn and whatnot, but after that I get forced out if I can't KO my opponent with ExtremeSpeed.
Thanks a lot for the comments guys!
Silk Scarf Bulky ExtremeKiller / Sash Double Status Darkrai / Scarf Kyogre / Scarf Special Genesect / Support Groudon / Life Orb DD Rayquaza
If you must persist with double Scarf............
This team is weak to, in order of importance -
ExtremeKiller - using Groudon to check ExtremeKiller is like using Palkia to check Kyogre.
Kyogre - using Kyogre and Rayquaza to check Kyogre is questionable.
Fightceus - checks ExtremeKiller and your only Fighting resist is slaughtered by Ice Beam. Regardless of whether it sets up or attacks immediately it is still a threat.
Ho-Oh - Sets up on Groudon and Genesect. Somewhat mitigated by Thunder Wave Darkrai that lures it, but if it gets a Substite up on the two aforementioned 'mons you're in for a world of pain.
Blaziken - Very, very dangerous, not placed higher due to its lesser usage, but no Ghost means it can fire off HJKs willy nilly and Groudon is OHKOed by + 2 Flare Blitz. Rayquaza resists its STABs but is Stealth Rock weak and frail to boot.
Dialga - Offensive Life Orb versions pummel Groudon into the dust and you have 0 safe switch-ins to Draco Meteor.
Palkia - Nothing can switch-in except ExtremeKiller, which is 2HKOed by rain Surf. Nothing can OHKO it except Rayquaza.
Latias - Genesect can't OHKO, nothing can switch in (Genesect can't really switch into any Latias except those with mono-coverage or Dragon Pulse + Psyshock. Surf / Thunder / HP Fire hurt.
Darkrai - can be checked by Scarf Kyogre but you have nothing to absorb the sleep. Not a weak but a general annoyance I suppose, as there is literally nothing you can do except bank on a miss to avoid something being put to sleep turn 1.
Kyurem-W - Special Genesect can't even check it. Nothing can switch-in
Mamoswine - Your only Ground immune is massacred by Ice Shard. Groudon is 2HKOed by Icicle Crash. ExtremeKiller can take 2 Earthquakes but if it can't sweep the other team immediately switching into Mamoswine is a lost cause more often than not. Like Blaziken, it would be higher if its usage was.
This team has an overreliance on offensive 'pressure' and crippling things with Darkrai. The members do not complement each other defensively in the slightest; HO uses members that can simultaneously apply pressure and check things that it needs to, being weak to this many things is not acceptable. Groudon also doesn't fit at all, it screws up your momentum by being slow, weak, and bait for certain Substitute Pokemon.
Unfortunately, like your last team I cannot recommend changing too much without restructuring the team entirely. I can offer a few small changes that can help you cover several threats, however.
Genesect should be running a physical spread, checking Latias is hugely important, and Iron Head can let you hit the Kyurem formes super effectively, as CherubAgent pointed out before.
A Pokemon I recommend over Groudon is Stealth Rock + Taunt Terrakion, capable of shutting down Lugia and Giratina without Dragon Tail, and even then a Taunted Giratina only performs at a small fraction of its defensive ability. Additionally, Terrakion is capable of checking all except Chople Berry and Jolly Extreme Killer, the former of which is never seen and the latter is taken care of by a little residual damage and explosion from Genesect. Offensive and defensive Dialga alike are crushed by Life Orb Terrakion, rather than getting slammed by Draco Meteor like the slow Groudon. Ho-Oh also cannot set up on your shit. Terrakion also fits the general offensive momentum of your team better than Groudon does. (PS: I don't know why you identify Lugia as a major threat when you have Darkrai blah blah a well-played Lugia will switch out of sleep, but seeing as you at least have a method around it I would say Lugia is much further down on your threat list than the other Pokemon I mentioned).
Life Orb over Focus Sash or anything else silly because the power is needed to OHKO bulky 240 HP Extreme Killer.
Extreme Killer is your only semi-bulky Pokemon with Groudon gone; it is the only thing capable of taking Draco Meteors and the like. Despite gimping its coverage I would have to recommend Recover over Brick Break. This changes Arceus role from an all-out sweeper to a pivot that can pose the threat of a sweep, however, it is a neccessity to absorb the moves that the rest of your team cannot.
Use Recover on Extreme Killer.
Kyogre does not check anything of significance, Genesect handles Mewtwo and I see Kyogre more of a wallbreaker / secondary revenge killer more than anything else. It has overlapping utility with Genesect. Latias is a solid replacement, checking Fighting Arceus and Kyogre excellently, and revenge killing Palkia as a bonus. It can even beat a +2 Blaziken in a pinch. Mamoswine cannot OHKO it with Ice Shard, making it a better switch-in than Rayquaza if you predict Earthquake (obviously watch out for Icicle Crash... but it's the best you can afford). Losing both weather summoners is unideal, but Swift Swimmers and Chlorophyll users are kept in check by Rayquaza.
A Psyshock Calm Mind set is your best option, posing the threat of a sweep and checking Fighting Arceus. Ho-Oh also cannot safely check this variant of Latias. Boosting Kyogre are also soundly beaten.
Rayquaza should be running Earthquake over ExtremeSpeed, while priority is nice the ability to beat Rock and Steel Arceus at +1 is nicer. Additionally Earthquake lets it check Kabutops and Omastar without locking itself into Outrage. I also recommend using Fire Blast rather than Overheat, checking the odd Venusaur without having to lower your stats. It also decreases the reliance on prediction when Ferrothorn or Forretress attempt to do something nasty to you or switch out, who knows??????
Use Earthquake over ExtremeSpeed and Fire Blast over Overheat on Rayquaza.
I GUESS I DIDNT CHANGE VERY LITTLE LOL
Tentacle Rapist (Deoxys-Attack) @ Life Orb
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
IVs: 30 Atk / 30 SAtk / 30 Spd
- Psycho Boost
- Shadow Ball
This is my current Deoxys-A, and I can see it giving your team major problems. I assume you lead with Darkrai, and if you do, I can go for a free sub on your dark void. Then I can superpower to your sash, as you break my sub, then outspeed and kill you with a shadow ball, and still be above half hp, which is more than enough to be useful later in the game.
No, he'll just go for the Dark Pulse to take out Deoxys straight away. Why Dark Void when he can KO it right off the bat?
This is a really great team Hawkstar-I really like that Darkrai set. Poppy covered pretty much everything, but I'll give you a luvdisc.
With most deoxys you'll assume they're faster and try to taunt hence why you would dark pulse off the bat against deoxys/thundurus
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