September Usage Stats
I beat you, Shake:
Cofagrigus up from RU
Stoutland down from UU
RU lost its premier spinblocker, Ghost-type wall, and Trick Room sweeper. This will surely make an impact on the tier. Unfortunately, the only thing that RU gained was Stoutland. This will most likely not make an impact on the tier, as sand is almost nonexistent and Stoutland isn't a very good Pokemon outside of the weather. We'll see. In other words, there were no major changes between August and September's usage stats. Slowking took Nidoqueen's #2 spot, while Gallade moved up to #3 from #5. Typhlosion went up 15 spots, which is sort of surprising. Other than that, nothing much is new, except that Metang went down to NU. Step it up Molk!
August Usage Stats
It's pretty disappointing that nothing like bisharp or krookodile dropped down. All we get is shitty stoutland. I won't be missing cofagrigus cause that's just one less spin blocker / physical wall to worry about.
Wow with Cofagrigus gone, and Stoutland dropping there's gonna be a shakeup.
Fighting-types will be having a field day as one of their biggest counter is gone. Additionally, Spiritomb will now be the predominant Ghost-type.
There are physical walls that can wall Stoutland, but it can beat each of its counters. Steelix gets hit pretty hard with a Choice Band Superpower, and with Scrappy it can beat the Ghost-types, which aren't hit by Return. ^^
Spiritomb will most definitely become the top ghost type of the tier, so fighting types might not become as popular as you might think. Gallade for example has a better chance against Cofagrigus than Tomb, and was actually better before Cofag moved up as proved by the real top ten list.
There is a lot wrong with this list, that's for sure. Nidoqueen at number 5, Moltres below Typhlosion, Aerodactyl(I know the LO set is pretty good, but you can tell everyone used it as a suicide lead)at number 8 are just a few thing seriously wrong with this list. Nidoqueen is bar none the best poke in the tier, and has absolutely zero safe switch ins. Gallade is good, but not better than Queen-nowhere near IMO, since Nidoqueen hits insanely hard straight off the bat, while Gallade needs at least one turn of set-up to sweep a whole team. Typhlosion just sucks. Eruption sounds good in theory, but there's this thing called priority. Priority is just massive in RU, what with Kabutops, Entei and Absol(another great poke)round every corner. There's also this thing called Stealth Rock, which means that Typhlosion will not be hitting hard at all. How it is higher than Moltres is seriously beyond me-Moltres has that great Hurricane to demolish Slowking and stall with, while Typhlosion has HP Grass for Slowking, which does next to nothing, which means all water types can use him as an opportunity to fire off a powerful hit, or gain the momentum back if you're Lanturn. They simply cannot do that with Moltres, as Lanturn take a lot of damage, and HP Grass does even more and Substitute means it can't use Volt Switch to gain the momentum back while Slowking is outright 2HKO'd. And as a suicude lead, Smeargle is far superior. Spore, Spikes and Stealth Rock all on one poke make Smeargle the perfect hazard setter, while Aerodactyl can just get up Stealth Rock, then die. Smeargle can basically take one poke out of the game unless they manage to play around Smeargle and set up SR and possibly a few layers of Spikes. And Fraxure at 102 below Bastiodon and Golem...is just laughable. Fraxure is a great sweeper thanks to its Dragon typing, eviolite and taunt, and Outrage has basically zero resists bar Steelix and Ferroseed which Low Kick handles nicely(apart from Ferroseed). He is able to set-up on stuff like Tangrowth with ease, and then destroy your team with ridiculous ease. Absol is another very underrated threat. Priority Sucker Punch off of that nice 394 attack is very powerful, being able to 1HKO the likes of Galvantula and Gallade after SR damage. Superpower and Fire Blast would be it's main selling points over Spiritomb, since Fire Blast and Superpower allow it to get past the likes of Tangrowth and Aggron who otherwise give Spiritomb serious problems. Finally guys, use Swellow more. As proved in Molk's RMT, Swellow is a boss. It outspeeds Sceptile, and basically therefore the whole metagame, and hits very, very hard-basically after Guts it has 403 attack, which is pretty much the same as max attack Tyranitar, Dragonite and Salamence, only it's faster than all three. It gets walled by steel type, but that's what team mates are for I suppose-and when they are eliminated, Swellow can have a very easy time making mincemeat of your opponents team.
Personally I stopped using cofag about 2 months ago since I knew it would be dropping. Like double01 stated it is too bad bisharp/krookodile didn't drop, because I don't see stouland doing anything other than it can return spiritombs face for lolz. I find the lead usage very misleading of the meta as Aero/Sandslash/Crustle/Whimsicott in the top 10 which all of those are pretty shit leads compared to things like Rotom-C, Accelgor, Uxie, Mesprit, Druddigon, and Primeape. (FYI accelgor/rotom-c best lead IMO) With the mighty cofag gone hitmonlee, gallade, and medicham might skyrocket all into the top 20 and many teams might now run spiritomb and misdreavus. Which is fine with me because I love to see the meta shake up.
| 22 | Rotom-Mow | 4450 | 9.175% | 3753 | 9.375% |
This is bull, definately the best pokemon in RU ATM as it stops the kabutops/moltres/grasstype core and it stop lanturn the prime special wall since slowking is bad ATM. Not to mention rotom-c can run many different sets are provide constant pressure with voltswitch and leafstorm.
The loss of Cofagrigus is unfortunate, and Stoutland is certainly not an equal trade-off :( I think Stoutland may see use as a bulky CB mon, though. Unlike Tauros, Stoutland can opt to invest in its already stellar bulk that will mesh well with Intimidate. Stoutland can then serve as the RU's Landorus-T, that is one hell-of-a bulky tank. I can certainly see Stoutland forming a decent core with Moltres, Spiritomb, or Slowking.
Here's a calc - CB Stoutland with 140 HP / 116 Def vs -1 Archeops's LO Stone Edge: 41-49%, a guaranteed 2HKO ;d
I don't agree with Nidoqueen being the best RU mon. If I were to choose the #1 mon it would be Sceptile, which can easily clean mid- late-game thanks to its amazing Speed and solid offense. Nidoqueen is just too slow and bulky enough to make use of its Sheer Force.
After a month of battling, I compiled these stats from copying Pokemon seen from logs... And it looks like Antar's right about number one.
Number of times seen in September:
13: Rotom-C, Entei
11: Clefable, Moltres, Sceptile
10: Gallade, Spiritomb
9: Feraligatr, Uxie, Typhlosion, Accelgor, Kabutops, Galvantula
8: Electivire, Nidoqueen, Aggron, Hitmonchan, Aerodactyl
7: Slowking. Medicham, Sigilyph, Magmortar, Whimsicott
6: Crustle, Bouffalant, Cryogonal, Dusknoir, Scyther, Poliwrath, Tangrowth, Drapion
5: Sandslash, Hitmonlee, Druddigon, Quagsire
4: Lilligant, Ferroseed, Mandibuzz, Omastar, Mesprit, Steelix, Manectric, Crawdaunt, Qwilfish, Smeargle
3: Rotom, Amoonguss, Ditto, Primeape, Hariyama, Magneton#
2 and 1: too many to count
By way of comparison, here's the same chart with Pokemon that are now in a higher tier than RU omitted (Cofagrigus and Gothitelle)
Legendary volcanic dogs and possessed lawn mowers unite, you have nothing to lose but your HP...
on another note, Cofag finally gone...inb4 some noobs start spamming Stoutland now and get trolled by Steelix / every Ghost-type ever. Also, UU got like Meloetta and Virizion and that's all we get. bs. Also, Galvantula still top 10 in usage and Gallade is #3....what the fuck. Stats still suck it seems. How the hell is Typhlosion #12!? smh.
Out of curiosity what's the distinguishing factor between hyper offense and offense? Number of offensive pokemon? I have 1 setup, 1 pivot/revenge killer, and 4 attackers on the team I use for RU. I think that should qualify as HO.
It isn't 20 battles, it's over 150. Also, I can't say anything for the mod complaints, so at the very least let me post my word cloud in peace. And it's relevant. It wouldn't be if I posted it in NU, for instance (which is where you belong, Zebraiken, go boss around your own tier). But this is RU, and they're RU stats.
I am pretty unhappy that Cofagrigus is gone... My lead would set up the entry hazards (Mostly toxic spikes) and then after I had done minor damage to his team I'd bring in Cofagrigus to set up and just obliterate the rest of their team.
And so this post isn't completely useless, I'm interested in seeing if Spiritomb will continue to be used as much as it was even with Cofagrigus not around anymore. It seems like it might just to combat the many fighting types roaming RU.
i'm perfectly willing to help you if you decide you'd rather learn how smogon works, and then maybe you'll even get your cherished entei analysis! but if you continue on the road you're going down now, you will get banned from smogon multiple times in the future. think about what you're doing and saying before you say it. also don't insult me.
this is the last post on the subject. if you have anything else to say, PM or VM me, i don't mind which. any subsequent posts will be deleted.
I love Pinceo!!!! Top 50 FTW! And no it is not a joke. I ladder on PS and I got number 3 before the ladder reset two weeks ago. I am now number 11. I use the following set for Pineco. Just sharing it.
Pineco@ Berry Juice
Level 1 Lead
Sturdy (0 Spe IVs)
Effective lead, don't lead when you see taunt or rapid spinner in team preview. It usually gets up two layers if played correctly. It can actually wall TR Cofagrigus, forcing Cofagrigus to kill me with no Trick Room up.
These are all pretty normal stats...
| 12 | Typhlosion | 5216 | 10.755% | 4257 | 10.633% |
Aside from Typhlosion being obnoxiously high, the stats seem the same as usual... and its trolling NU with a bunch of Spikers literally being right above the cut-off.
But seriously, why did Typhlosion shoot up so high? It gained nothing.
EDIT: That Pineco doesn't look very good. Why not just use Crustle? Any residual damage just demolishes that Pineco, also.
EDIT2: Seconding that Sceptile is the best Pokemon in RU atm
This is what most of the Typhloshion users actually believe, lol.
Too many things wrong with the usage stats that are worth covering, so I'll look at the big ones:
First off is Moltres. 12th in usage is just stupid (16th for September alone) I mean, sure, it has a 4x weakness to Stealth Rock, but it only has one true counter in the tier and it doesn't even have reliable recovery. Moltres even has Roost to offset its SR weakness to an extent should you be unsuccessful in spinning those Rocks away (Tops and Cryo rarely fail when used properly)
Lanturn all the way down at 20th is really saddening. At the very least, it can hold off every special attacker in the tier that isn't named Sceptile, Rotom-C, and Lilligant long enough to paralyze them and get to a counter (and you could use Lanturn to lure these Grass types in for a TWave in theory) Really not used enough and it's the only thing in the tier that can actually take 2 hits from Moltres with SR up and paralyze / KO back.
Rotom-C(Mow) way down at 24. This is a bit baffling to me. Sure, Sceptile is probably the best Pokemon in RU atm due to its combination of speed, power, versatility, and coverage, but Rotom-C works so much more differently than Tile. It gives great momentum for offensive teams, a good set of resistances, and a revenge killer for most Speed boosting threats. Not much more utility an offensive team could ask for outside of entry hazards.
As for Stoutland, it will be interesting. I don't think it can be a bulky tank due to its severe lack of resistances and very exploitable Fighting weakness with the likes of Gallade, Hitmonlee, the lesser seen Hitmonchan, and the rare Primeape and Emboar. It's Speed sits high enough for it to effectively break walls, but it doesn't have the sheer power or great STAB that Gallade and Escavalier, the best 2 current physical wallbreakers, have. (not counting Entei who can also clean up with ESpeed) I just don't see it having a ton of success in RU, but we'll just have to wait and see to be sure.
| 8 | Aerodactyl | 6283 | 12.955% | 5641 | 14.091% |
| 11 | Sandslash | 5563 | 11.470% | 4787 | 11.957% |
| 12 | Typhlosion | 5216 | 10.755% | 4257 | 10.633% |
I do not grasp the value of these three Pokemon specifically amongst the Top 15. Typhlosion isn't that good to be used over Magmortar among (all) other Fire-types in RU that are used less than it, Sandslash is constantly outclassed by other RapidSpinners, and I don't see Aerodactyl being all that great when it's Prankster bait (hi, Whimsicott), and it is offensively outclassed by Archeops.
| 18 | Hitmonlee | 4861 | 10.023% | 3795 | 9.479% |
| 21 | Cryogonal | 4502 | 9.282% | 3474 | 8.678% |
| 31 | Hitmonchan | 3983 | 8.212% | 3177 | 7.936% |
Key examples of Pokemon better than Sandslash at RapidSpinning, as well as better at RU overall.
| 25 | Archeops | 4338 | 8.944% | 3552 | 8.872% |
| 33 | Steelix | 3701 | 7.631% | 3369 | 8.415% |
| 35 | Whimsicott | 3669 | 7.565% | 3130 | 7.818% |
| 37 | Manectric | 3517 | 7.252% | 2879 | 7.191% |
| 42 | Crustle | 2862 | 5.901% | 2566 | 6.410% |
| 43 | Omastar | 2767 | 5.705% | 2178 | 5.440% |
A handful among many of examples of Pokemon better than Aerodactyl at hazards-setting (Steelix, Crustle, Omastar), offensive sweeping (Archeops), and the key role of Anti-Lead (Whimsicott, Manetric, Crustle)
| 29 | Dusknoir | 4003 | 8.254% | 3412 | 8.523% |
It's a good thing Cofagrigus got promoted. Then again, Cofag and Dusknoir don't outclass each other on the grounds of using different offensive spectrums (I like Dusknoir for SubPunching, which is something Cofagrigus wishes it could do) while otherwise performing the same role defensively.
That said, I do like Dusknoir for countering Cryo. Spritomb can do this, too, but I find Dusknoir more appealing to be honest. Its superb Physical movepool is probably why (base 100 Attack is pretty good). That said, Dusknoir is far from the best Pokemon in RU, although it is still decent compared to others (I think it's better than Electivire).
| 40 | Bouffalant | 3338 | 6.882% | 2641 | 6.597% |
I thought being one of the few Sap Sippers warranted more usage in general. To be honest, though, Sawsbuck is arguably better for that.
| 47 | Qwilfish | 2483 | 5.120% | 2180 | 5.445% |
| 50 | Klinklang | 2434 | 5.019% | 1864 | 4.656% |
| 54 | Poliwrath | 2209 | 4.555% | 1836 | 4.586% |
| 58 | Scolipede | 1686 | 3.476% | 1421 | 3.549% |
All harshly-underrated Pokemon who are arguably better than some of their competitors in similar stat rankings.
| 59 | Absol | 1396 | 2.878% | 1096 | 2.738% |
Aww, so close! I wanted to see this guy in action in RU! Oh well, Stoutland's still a decent Poke who dropped to RU.
SPEAKING OF STOUTLAND:
I think I might make a bulky team with it and see how it goes.
It's pretty disappointing as far as new recruits go. Stoutland has below-par statistics and quite a poor offensive coverage. Looking at the Strategy Dex, I see Normal, Fighting, Dark and Electric. Poor Stoutland, whatever you see, anoter prevalent Pokemon can do better. For example, Electivire outclasses Stoutland in most categories, as it only has slightly lower stats defensively and an excellent Attack stat - better than Stoutland's, bearing in mind the latter's role (consulting the Strategy Dex again) is that of a Choice Band sweeper. There isn't a more Atk-dependent role in the entirety of Smogon.
Stoutland, to me, seems like an inferior and slightly faster Bouffalant, seeing as the latter has most of Stoutland's viable moves, a better ability in Sap Sipper, and better stats n all categories but two, one of which is Special Attack, which is irrelevant considering that they are both physically offensive.
[quote=/B/utterfree]Typhlosion isn't that good to be used over Magmortar among (all) other Fire-types in RU that are used less than it.[quote]
You're dismissing Typhlosion too easily. Scarf Eruption sets basically demolish any one Pokemon who isn't Slowking and doesn't have a speed boost of any sort. (After that, however, priority is a problem for Typho). Overall, it certainly has a niche in the meta, as it is an exclusive member of the "Eruption club", an honour shared by only four other evolved Pokemon. Of these, Groudon is Uber, Entei has better movesets, Camerupt isn't fast enough, and Torkoal has neither sufficient Special Attack nor sufficient Speed to make use of it...
As for Ghost types, Cofag was so central to the meta that it's hard to predict what RU will evolve into. Certainly more Spiritomb usage, which may lead to a rise in Foresight (the use of which reveals Tomb's only weakness)... but then again, perhaps not. Dusknoir may be more of a direct substitute for Cofag, but it's inferior to Spiritomb.
I'll post my full thoughts on the stats when I'm not sitting in an airport but I'd like to speak in defense of Typhlosion.
While Typhlosion probably isn't good enough to receive as much usage as it does, to dismiss it as bad or outclassed is quite frankly ignorant. Typhlosion has 100 base speed, meaning it beats out every Pokemon that Typhlosion beats, as well as the 95 speed tier (Drapion). This is hugely important as it make Typhlosion much more difficult to revenge kill. Then there is Typhlosion's base 109 Special attack. This is equivalent to Swarm Durant, just with a stronger STAB option. Furthermore Typhlosion sports quite respectable 78/78/85 defenses which, while not tanking anything serious, do mean that Typhlosion can survive a hit reasonably well.
Now I used Typhlosion for the entire round so far, so I'll talk a bit about the set I used after discussing the Scarf set, the big target for Typhlosion haters. As Trop said, most players (not just PS :p) will look at Typhlosion, see Eruption and think, instant Scarfer. To be honest, they aren't wrong, Typhlosion does make an excellent Scarfer and Eruption is a powerful move, it just isn't one that you can spam the entire match without asking Kabutops or Slowking to come in and absorb your attacks. As with other Pokemon, it requires these checks/counters to be weakened or removed. It also requires Rapid Spin support but then, so does Moltres which isn't too much to ask I don't think.
The main problem with Scarf Typhlosion is that it lacks a good coverage move, which brings me to the set I've been running, and what I believe to be Typhlosion's best set, Sunny Day Typhlosion.
Typhlosion @ Heat Rock
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 HP
- Fire Blast
- Sunny Day
- Hidden Power [Rock]
I used Typhlosion as a hybrid sweeper/Sunny Day setter on my sun team, and it was uniquely effective at both breaking through opposing teams and also supporting my other sweepers. Typhlosion naturally forces switches, which allows it a strong opportunity to support itself by setting up Sun. Fire Blast is the natural beat stick move. When boosted by Sun it hits terrifically hard, only failing to OHKO heavily specially defensive Pokemon that are neutral to its attacks (Gallade and up), and is generally a great move. Then main difference between this and other Typhlosion sets is Solarbeam. Solarbeam is completely viable in a metagame without weather, and trasforms Typhlosions weak Hidden Power Grasses into a terrific second move, 2HKOing both Lanturn and Slowking. Speaking of Hidden Power, Rock is the natural fit for the third move, KOing Moltres and Magmortar (after Rocks), which also granting coverage on Crustle and Aerodactyl/Archeops if necessary.
The point I'm trying to make is that just because many players are using a set that is suboptimal in most teams does not mean that the Pokemon or even the set itself is suboptimal, simply that as a whole the tier has yet to recognize its strengths.
Is Typhlosion higher than it should be? Quite probably. Is by a significant amount? I don't thinks. (imo Ty should be in the mid-20s in usage or so)
Mind, people also treat Whimsicott the same way, dismissing it solely because of SubSeed (which, while awesome in Ubers and OU, admittedly isn't as good in RU). I generally prefer Taunt + Stun Spore + 2 Attacks so it isn't helpless against other Pranksters/Taunters, while it can make okay use of Giga Drain and Hurricane due to passable Special Attack (or U-turn with passable Attack, and something such as Tailwind/Sunny Day to support other Pokes still).
Most Whimsicott I've seen are Encore trappers, a role which is almost an instant incapacitation of any Pokemon that does not use a supereffective attack on the switchin. I've never really understood RU Subseeding, especially with the naturally frail Whimsicott, even with Prankster, as it is a naturally defensive role that is fulfilled by an offensive Pokemon. Its only true use is as a sort of revenge killer for stalls, where Whimsi switches in and Subs to block the inevitable status attack.
The Pokemon in general comes across as "nice ability, shame about the Pokemon", as Prankster only really affects speed boosted Pokemon and the occasional Accelgor.
Re: Typhlosion, the problem with using it as a Sunnybeamer is simply that Moltres does it better. Although there is no denying that the Stealth Rock weakness is a problem, Typhlosion also has a problem with it, and that base stat increase from 108 (Typh) to 125 (Tres) gives a Sunnybeam Moltres the best of both worlds - and access to three base-120 attacks at that. Typhlosion's niche is Eruption, which is completely different.
Ive actually used that pineco a lot, it can be dead weight against certain teams (fuck you aerodactyl). But it can also hilariously effective against other teams. When i played pineco correctly, it was often able to get at LEAST SR+1 layer of spikes up against the opposing team, and with pain split, it could stall out a pokemon like OTR cofagrigus just by reactivating sturdy every turn, it was also very good at keeping early game hazards off the field thanks to rapid spin, as well as the fact that most of the common ghosts were hazard bait. Overall, its a very underrated and most certainly annoying lead, and i could see this getting an onsite analysis on smogon, lol.
Overall im very disappointed with the PS stats, possibly even moreso than last month, and its NOT because metang dropped :P (i didnt even spam it this month, lol). Ill edit my post later with explanations on how PS is 2 gud.
So... anything interesting happen in the 3 months I've been gone?
(not saying this is a come back post, this is my last semester of college til I get my Chemistry BS and its tough as... well yeah)
For those of you that don't remember me, I was a fairly active member in the RU community and considered myself decent on the ladder at least. (Below the SV, DC, or Double01 range of course!)
Anyway, I had a feeling of nostalgia and dropped by.
Typhlosion is up there now huh? I remember when I used him as a Sableye counter... those were the days.
Now for the part of the post were I actually make a comment relevant to the thread! I used to run both Typhlosion and Entei with Sunny Day sets and considered them both good (not always best, but still respectable competitively).
Generally when running sunny day Typhlosion, I tried to capitalize on the fact that it was almost always expected to be scarfed with
Typhlosion (M) @ Leftovers
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Sunny Day
obviously HP rock is fine over sub and I sometimes ran that as well.
@anyone that thinks Moltres is always the better Sunny Day abuser,
1. yes, the extra SR weakness really does matter in plenty of games.
2. with Sunny Day and your 3 120 bp moves, where does Roost go anyway?
3. 10 more base speed has earned me many a win.
And is no one even mentioning Specs Typhlosion anymore? Haha, I swear that dented Omastars.
Joking aside, if you can get the Kabutops/Omastar killed, Specs Eruption is no laughing matter.
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