Stat spreads, possibly the single most important part of the Pokemon. I don't think I need to tell you, then, how crucial your votes are in this stage.
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My top priority is the Special Attack. I think that special offense inherently has a lot of advantages over physical offense on CAP 4, such that physical CAP 4 will require either gigantic physical offensive capability or lots of coverage moves to be enough of a threat that the risk in using it is worth it. This is also why I've been very precise in the Special Attack stat. Nonetheless, I can see where people are coming from with wanting both attacking stats to be good, so I have consequently jacked the BST up to 600.
117 Base SpA does lots of very specific things, most notably:
252 SpA Life Orb CAP 4 Bug Buzz vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Politoed : 177-211 (46.09 - 54.94%) -- a 3HKO through four turns of Leftovers (think Protect), but NOT a 2HKO through two turns of Leftovers.
252 SpA Life Orb CAP 4 120 super effective special vs. 248 HP / 252 SpD Calm Leftovers Heatran : 221-260 (57.4 - 67.53%) -- guaranteed 2HKO.
252 SpA Life Orb CAP 4 Psyshock vs. 192 HP / 252 Def Bold Venusaur : 257-304 (73.63 - 87.1%) -- NOT a OHKO after Stealth Rock.
252 SpA Life Orb CAP 4 Psychic vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Black Sludge Rain Dish Tentacruel : 307-361 (84.34 - 99.17%) -- NOT a OHKO unless Stealth Rock is involved.
252 SpA Life Orb CAP 4 Psyshock vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tornadus-T : 191-226 (63.87 - 75.58%) -- guaranteed 2HKO through Regenerator assuming Stealth Rock or one turn of Life Orb recoil.
252 SpA Life Orb CAP 4 Psyshock vs. 4 HP / 252 Def Leftovers Blissey : 313-370 (48 - 56.74%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock.
252 SpA Life Orb CAP 4 120 neutral special vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Genesect : 165-195 (58.3 - 68.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO.
Note that it may need to choose between Psyshock (to OHKO Terrakion in sand and 2HKO Blissey with Stealth Rock) and Psychic (to 2HKO Gliscor and have more general power).
As it turns out, defensive Politoed is an excellent indicator of how powerful (or not) CAP 4 can be. This is mostly because it is one of the very few common Pokémon that have great physical and special defenses. With 117 Base SpA and appropriate coverage, CAP 4 will be powerful enough to threaten most of the top 30 or so, but it will not be able to 2HKO absolutely everything just by making the right move, simply because it doesn't need to do so.
The way I see it, special CAP 4 would be used as a versatile attacker that needs some support of some kind, which could be Stealth Rock, Rapid Spin, or really anything that provides many opportunities to switch in. It could choose No Guard to be able to round out its neutral coverage in three accurate moves, which would leave room for a super effective coverage move, or Megahorn, or even a support move. On the other hand, Weak Armour and Illusion could be used, the former for the obvious valuable Speed boost (more on that later), and the latter to make it easier for CAP 4 to hit the right moves on the right targets.
As for physical CAP 4:
0 Atk Life Orb CAP 4 Megahorn
vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Tyranitar : 361-429 (89.35 - 106.18%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Leftovers Jirachi : 196-231 (48.51 - 57.17%) -- 94.92% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Bold Leftovers Politoed : 169-200 (44.01 - 52.08%) -- 79.3% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Choice Scarf Rotom-W : 187-220 (77.27 - 90.9%) -- 25% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Life Orb CAP 4 Megahorn vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Bold Chansey : 320-376 (45.45 - 53.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
-1 252 Atk Life Orb CAP 4 Ice Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Leftovers Landorus-T : 224-265 (58.63 - 69.37%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
-1 252 Atk Life Orb CAP 4 Wild Charge vs. 56 HP / 0 Def Leftovers Gyarados : 291-348 (84.34 - 100.86%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Life Orb CAP 4 Fire Punch (Rain) vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Scizor : 203-239 (59.18 - 69.67%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Life Orb CAP 4 120 super effective physical vs. 252 HP / 88 Def Relaxed Leftovers Ferrothorn : 218-257 (61.93 - 73.01%)
I see physical CAP 4 contrasting with special CAP 4 by being more of a wallbreaker by using Megahorn as its main battering ram at the cost of generally having lower Base Power coverage moves and having to think more about super effective coverage. Now, it should be noted that Megahorn is a pretty bad STAB for wallbreaking compared to other 120 Base Power STAB moves. So while wallbreaking may traditionally be seen as a safe role, I'd say that this does not hold quite so true with physical CAP 4. No Guard might be more desirable with physical CAP 4, since Weak Armour is geared toward a sweep, and yet accuracy is also so important. I can see Illusion working decently well, too, with enough coverage moves.
Speed
As it turns out, CAP 4 can already murder most of the most relevant Pokémon above 100 Base Speed, notably excluding Therian Tornadus. One could argue that potentially losing to Therian Tornadus is bad when CAP 4 could already face trouble with Politoed, but both are still maimed pretty badly, especially if Stealth Rock is involved. At any rate, I originally wanted a faster CAP 4, going with 122 at first and then dropping it below Latios, then below Terrakion. I particularly wanted to go over Genesect to ensure that CAP 4 would want to run a +Speed nature, and to ensure that it could outrun an extremely common Choice Scarf user with a Weak Armour boost. Yet, since I really didn't want to touch the Special Attack, I settled with the unique 94 Base Speed (the maximum possible under the limits is 95). This at the very least outruns Therian Landorus.
I do think that CAP 4 really needs a decent amount of Speed, not in spite of Weak Armour, but because of it. People think that a higher Base Speed will make Choice Scarf more appealing than Weak Armour, but when we look at existing Pokémon around this Speed range, we see that Choice Scarf sets are not all that popular. Genesect and Therian Landorus are the only Pokémon in the 90s Speed range that commonly carry a Choice Scarf, followed maybe by Haxorus. (Notice that all of these Pokémon are significantly more powerful than this stat spread submission, PLUS the first two have U-turn.) I think that this is largely due to the greater appeal of other items that do more for a Pokémon in that range than a Choice Scarf will achieve (not to mention the choice lock), especially with Choice Scarf Genesect on the prowl.
Let's face it, we have to consider that Choice Scarf users can still revenge a +1 boosted CAP 4 at any time. 94 is still a very inconvenient Speed tier, yet a Weak Armour boost will, at least, put it above many of the important Choice Scarf users, except perhaps the most common ones like Genesect and Terrakion (and I'd rather stick with my Special Attack than emulate Korski's submission). 94 Base Speed makes a Speed boost from Weak Armour much desired as well as very rewarding. It is also not so slow as to make Illusion and No Guard less viable. All of these abilities benefit from a decently high Speed stat. We shouldn't be putting so much unneeded focus on Weak Armour that we hurt CAP 4's viability, which would defeat the whole purpose.
Defenses
CAP 4's defenses have the following notable effects:
252 Atk Choice Scarf Terrakion Stone Edge vs. 0 HP / 0 Def CAP 4 : 330-390 (91.41 - 108.03%) -- 43.75% chance to OHKO.
252 Atk Landorus-T Stone Edge vs. 0 HP / 0 Def CAP 4 : 238-282 (65.92 - 78.11%) -- guaranteed 2HKO.
64 Atk Adamant Landorus-T Stone Edge vs. 0 HP / 0 Def CAP 4 : 230-272 (63.71 - 75.34%) -- guaranteed 2HKO.
252 SpA Thundurus-T Volt Switch vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD CAP 4 : 187-222 (51.8 - 61.49%) -- guaranteed 2HKO.
0 SpA Politoed Scald (Rain) vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD CAP 4 : 180-213 (49.86 - 59%) -- 99.61% chance to 2HKO.
+1 252 SpA Genesect Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD CAP 4 : 221-261 (61.21 - 72.29%) -- guaranteed 2HKO, but NOT a OHKO after Stealth Rock.
The Stone Edge calculations reflect some amusing situations I see with CAP 4 and Weak Armour. If CAP 4 switches into Stone Edge and it misses, then it doesn't get the Speed boost, but it also has much more HP left and it could actually have, say, Choice Scarf Therian Landorus wondering if it should try another Stone Edge. On the other hand, if Stone Edge hits and CAP 4 survives, it now outruns Therian Landorus, though it will still only have one attack left due to Life Orb recoil and Stealth Rock if both are in play. A similar situation could be achieved with other common users of Stone Edge, as well as if Choice Scarf Terrakion attempts to revenge kill a completely healthy CAP 4.
The calculation from Genesect, combined with the calculation of a hypothetical neutral attack on Genesect in the Attack / Special Attack section, gives a picture of what CAP 4 versus Choice Scarf Genesect might look like with this spread. Genesect is not going to switch into CAP 4 with ease, since that coverage move will take off most of its HP. In that situation, it has to use Bug Buzz or Flamethrower to try to finish off CAP 4, otherwise it doesn't KO and it goes down. It could still switch in to revenge kill, but with the imposed limits, CAP 4 can't do everything. CAP 4 can also OHKO Terrakion and Latios, two common Choice Scarf users, so that they also only get a safe switch-in after an ally goes down.
The HP was chosen largely to regulate the BST. I had qualms about going over 86 (Yanmega), but I decided on 110 because it matched fellow Weak Armour holder Mandibuzz. I suppose it can also take advantage of certain moves, but that's for the movepool stage to decide.
This spread has been fun to make. There were a lot of considerations to make, and I was (and still am) quite worried about how viable CAP 4 will be. Yet, I particularly like the look of my spread, even if part of me wanted other things. I'll probably add some more calculations as time goes on, though for now I think I've said all that I've really needed to.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fat Deck Knight
(Post 4422707)
So I did a complete overhaul on this after tunning some calcs. There isn't really a legendary-powerful Bug type mon, I figure we might as well make one, especially considering the competition.
ODB: 0.1690 (slightly biased towards offense) PSB: 12.2215 (Heavily biased towards physical)
Overview:
Speed: The most important thing about this Speed is it ties a lot of potential checks (Infernape, Terrakion, Specs Keldeo in Rain) and makes it so their Scarf versions are still risky against a +1 Speed CAP 4. It also makes it so that there are several important faster Pokemon (Gengar, Latis) that, while not acting as Counters, can successfully revenge kill CAP 4. It also allows us to outspeed Scarf Tornadus-T after a Weak Armor/Quiver Dance boost (or with Scarf) with a +Spe nature and any Hidden Power. It's got sufficient stats for pulling off a Quiver Dance sweep, and enough Defense to take a hit if it needs to use Tail Glow, which is an astounding stat booster.
While it's maximum speed is important, so is its minimum speed. With a single Speed EV CAP 4 hits 253 Speed. With a Quiver Dance Boost plus a Weak Armor Boost, its Speed goes up to 506, Faster than Deoxys-S, and it can use what would have gone into those speed EVs into an offense or defense. It's quite elegant.
Attack / Special Attack: Attack is at the limit of Physical Sweepiness for this Speed. It's really crucial the Base Stat be as high as possible to maximize the benefit of Weak Armor on a Choice set, and 110 Attack is as low as I'm willing to go on that. Special Sweepiness was determined after running a number of mixed calculations and coming to the conclusion 110/98/108 satisfied the needs of a mixed set and a special attacking set with Psyshock. Both Swords Dance and Tail Glow are viable at 108 Speed with their given bases.
HP / Defense / Special Defense:
I was determined to have Defense be higher than HP on this no matter the outcome, so I kept Base Defense at the same level and tweaked HP to get the desired results. Special Defense was then tailored to be the CAP's weak point, but not minimized as previous in order to allow consideration for something other than just a special set. HP is now high enough to pull off 100 HP Subs, which will be excellent if we end up putting Focus Punch (by definition a risky move) on CAP 4. I think it still qualifies as "High HP," though its obviously not defining like it would be for Hariyama.
Aesthetics: I have always preferred Bug types to have lower HP than at least one of their defenses, and I think this is an elegant way to present a Psuedo-legend strength set that is neither overpowered nor boring to look at (oh look all 100s whoopedy-do). It should achieve what it needs to do without going overboard.
Set Assumptions:
In lieu of a large number of calculations I ran out of time for, here are some calculations on a given set and the EVs.
Mixed Attackers:
Megahorn is the star of the show here as it has enough Base Power to make a mixed set viable with minimal investment in Attack. The other two moves are Psychic and Focus Blast since they provide the best power/coverage combination.
Set EVs: 20 Atk / 252 SpA / 236 Spe Nature: Hasty or Naive Stats: 343 HP / 261 Atk / 256 Def (or 230) / 295 SpA / 182 SpD (or 163) / 342 Spe Item: Life Orb
[Speed is Tornadus-T Neutral nature Max +1, so a Weak Armor Boost outspeed Scarfnadus]
Potential Boosters: Tail Glow, Quiver Dance, Work Up/Growth
This CAP 4 Stat spread combined a chokepoint speed number with enough offense to attack out of the box physically, and enough defense to utilize a number of stat boosters, having a raw physical defenses slightly greater than Tyranitar, and a special tankiness that is only mid-ranged, but becomes quite effective with a QD boost. I believe it fulfills the discussion parameters we've had so far to an excellent degree, having a number of situational checks. It is also fast and powerful enough to make use of all abilities, without being so fast or so powerful that it cannot be realistically revenge killed. In short, it retains its riskiness to use while being able to competently pull off a sweep if it comes in with the right combination of factors.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fat ganj4lF
(Post 4423826)
Final Submission:
Okay, let's have a try. I hope my spread doesn't completely suck, I'm still relatively new to CAP but I guess trying to partecipate actively is the best way to get started faster (as long as one doesn't post stupid things...hope it's not the case).
Proposed stat spread: 100 HP / 110 Atk / 103 Def / 115 SpA / 72 SpD / 100 Spe (600 BST)
Actually, I really wanted this CAP to have an usable Speed stat; this would give it access to many possible sets, mixed LO, Scarf, as well as many boosting sets. However, raising much Speed heavily influence PS and SS, thus I couldn't go as high as I wanted. 100 Speed is a good tier anyway, many successful sweepers already are around that number (this could somewhat be seen as an element of risk, since you don't have a distinctive Speed stat that allows you to be sure to outspeed certain threats), and still allows CAP4 to have very nice mixed offenses. I feel, also, that putting CAP4 in such a good Speed tier represent a good incentive to run Weak Armour, being able to deal with Scarf Genesect and speed tie at worst with many common Scarfers.
Atk/SpAtk
110 and 115 are indeed nice attacking stats, not the best out there but still very usable. I don't have the time to play around with the damage calculator to set those stats in a way they'll grant specific OHKOs/2HKOs, sorry about that, however I feel that I reached a good compromise about mixed attacking prowess and Speed. THink about Lucario to have a rough idea about what those kind of mixed offenses means - probably quite underwhelming if unboosted, but can become especially threatening with a LO or after a boost. THis, coupled with the Speed stat, ensure that our CAP can run a multitude of different sets, thus making him difficult to effectively counter and hard to switch in.
HP/Def
100 HP and 103 Def actually give CAP4 a very good physical bulk, comparable to the pixies, which is especially good since taking a hit and activating Weak Armour doesn't completely cripple yourself. To have an idea of how bulky this can be, consider that it can survive Choice Scarf Salamence's Outrage (Jolly natured) after being switched into Rocks. Of course you won't do so very often, but that can give you a rough idea of what it can take as physical damage.
SpD
It was clear from the beginning that I needed to dump this a bit; however thanks to awesome base 100 HP stat, CAP4 is still able to take some weaker hit, albeit everything unresisted and decently powered will easily faint it. I feel that giving him 72 SpD is low enough to make it risky to use while not completely crippling its special bulk to Forretress levels, since that would be easily exploited by walls of every kind to quickly wear down CAP4 and render it useless.
Quoting BMB's guidelines for the stat spread: High HP: achieved, 100 base HP is quite a bit, it even allows for 101 HP Substututes Discrepancy: While my spread's ST is not complete trash, it's still quite weak compared to PT, so I guess this is achieved too Specialization: I tried to balance out the spread so many sets are viable, both physicals and specials; if I didn't do some gross mistake, this is achieved too Speed: See above. Aesthetic: 600 BST is achieved, and that's a quite nice number. Two stats are a bit odd, but I feel that some diversity is not ugly at all, and can be pleasant at times, so no biggie here. Overall, even this point is sorta achieved.
Okay, probably not the best suggestion but I hope it was at least worth considering.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fat GRs Cousin
(Post 4424991)
Final Submission (any submission would be the user's final one because seriously that's an awful move)
114 HP / 136 Atk / 104 Def / 115 SpA / 49 SpD / 82 Spe
PT: 199.6976 (Excellent)
ST: 100.0181 (Above Average)
PS: 196.7475 (Excellent)
SS: 169.6289 (Very Good)
BSR: 374.2514 (Excellent)
BST: 600
- High HP – Deliciously so. With Base 114 HP, CAP4 requires only 144 HP EVs to reach 405 health, enough to make 101 Substitutes and survive 5 Stealth Rocks, and leaving room for EVs to go in other places in non-sweeper sets.
- Discrepancy – Done with flying colors, having one of the highest possible PTs for one of the lowest possible STs.
- Specialisation – Bulky, mixed, and fast enough. It's capable of doing any of the three without being a failure, the user's risk being that you can't rely on the reward of each being worth CAP4's risk on all at the same time.
- Speed – Big one right here. Base 82 allows you to outspeed every unboosted Pokemon in the game save Deoxys and Ninjask (therefore all of OU) if you activate Weak Armor. Otherwise, it's fast enough to work well with the other abilities without being too slow (Bisharp's 70, Honchkrow's 71, Dragonite's 80, all things that hold them back) nor too fast (Base 100 outpaces plenty, to ridiculous amounts with Weak Armor that no longer really benefit it).
- Aesthetics – BST 600 is works fine, as we can pretend this thing is an event Legendary if we just make sure it doesn't have a pre-evolution. A lot of those art designs look legendary anyway, and it'd be nice to say that we made a Legendary CAP.
Physical Tankiness
...
252 Atk Adamant Choice Band Terrakion Stone Edge vs. 252 Def Lax CAP4:
374 ~ 444, guaranteed OHKO with Stealth Rock 252 Atk Adamant Choice Scarf Terrakion Stone Edge vs. 252 Def Lax CAP4:
252 ~ 296, guaranteed 2HKO 252 Atk Adamant Choice Band Terrakion Close Combat vs. 252 Def Lax CAP4:
55 ~ 66, completely healed off by 2-3 turns of Leftovers recovery 252 Atk Adamant Choice Scarf Terrakion Close Combat vs. Weak Armor-activated 0 Def Negative-nature CAP4:
76 ~ 90, <25% of the frailest set possible's HP
114 HP and 104 Defense gives CAP4 the right distribution in dealing with "risk in bulk". You're OKHO'd if you take risk and lose, and given a great deal of momentum if your risk succeeds and rewards you. 114 HP means you only need 114 HP EVs to reach the magic 405 health, effectively giving you 394 EVs to fit into whichever set you desire. This works wonders with Weak Armor and Illusion, the former setting you up for a late-game sweep, the latter giving you early-game momentum. It's the right amount of bulk to give to something as much of a High-risk, High-reward Physical Tanky CAP such as this. Any more or less will deteriorate from the concept.
Speed
...
82 Speed is just the right amount to where one would seriously consider using Weak Amor above No Guard in a sweeper's set. With maximum speed EVs, positive nature, and Weak Armor's boost, you outspeed anything not named Deoxys or a Speed Boost holder, uninvested neutral natured base 125 Pokemon, +1 Gyarados and Necturna, and by extension, +1 anything else Base 81 or lower, and speed tie with Acrobatics Gliscor (additionally outspeeding any neutral natured base 95 with maximum speed EVs). In otherwords, it's just the right amount to break a number of speed tiers without making Weak Armor unnecessary to use. If one takes two hits on Weak Armor, CAP4 can outspeed Deoxys-S and +2 maximum speed Gyarados. Deoxys-S. Any more speed is unnecessary if one can literally achieve that speed from switching in and taking a hit.
Now, I'm aware this has gone on a lot about Weak Armor, so let's delve into what CAP4 is capable of without it. 82 Base Speed is possibly the most important stat in all of this project because of how much it affects. Base 100 speed is considered the "average" in the group of Pokemon we classify as "fast", meaning that it is understood as it is that this base speed is below average. However, it is still fast enough to make use of sets involving wall breaking, set-up sweeping, support, and other roles between. CAP4 already outspeeds 25 out of the 54 OU Pokemon (as well as 6 of the 14 CAPs) on investments and nature alone. This means that sweeper sets with Choice Scarf and No Guard are actually viable in addition to support sets, giving us lean-way to actually experiment with Illusion and No Guard without it being outclassed by other members of OU.
Special Tankiness
...
49 Special Defense is both a work of additional risk for CAP4, meeting the mandatory low ST spread. Even maximum investments and positive nature (which, honestly, nobody will ever do), CAP4 will always be OHKO'd by Fire Blast and Hurricane, and Thunder, Hydro Pump, and Blizzard. This helps to further increase the risk in the decision making process of choosing CAP4's ability, preventing what we can from turning any of our abilities into the ability of choice. Fortunately, because of how it will be more dangerous to exploit the benefits of No Guard, this will give us more freedom in what we give CAP4 in regards to its movepool.
Offenses
...
Lastly, 136 Attack and 115 Special Attack brings out the mixed stats we are looking for, favoring physical offense a little more. I'm pretty sure it's self-explanatory, but if not, the offenses are high enough to where one can make good use of Life Orb or Choice items, but low enough to where boosting sets can honestly be considered using despite CAP4's defensive and speed-marked risks. Here are some calculations to show you what a mixed high-risk, high-reward Pokemon is capable of--No, not Archeops, better.
252 Atk Naughty Life Orb CAP4 Megahorn vs. 252 Def Impish Ferrothorn:
172 ~ 204, guaranteed 2HKO without Leech Seed in effect on switch-in 252 Atk Naughty Life Orb CAP4 Megahorn vs. 252 Def Bold Chansey: 255 ~ 301, 3HKO factoring in leftovers +2 252 Atk Naughty Life Orb CAP4 Megahorn vs. 252 Def Bold Chansey: 765 ~ 900, guaranteed OHKO 252 Atk Naughty Life Orb CAP4 Megahorn vs. Uninvested Neutral Natured Rotom-W: 273 ~ 322, chance for a OHKO, guaranteed without any HP EVs 252 SpA Rash Life Orb CAP4 Bug Buzz vs. Uninvested Neutral Natured Jirachi: 177 ~ 208, chance for 2HKO without Leftovers, guaranteed 3HKO 252 SpA Rash Life Orb CAP4 Bug Buzz vs. Uninvested Neutral Natured Tyranitar in Sandstorm:
386 ~ 456, guaranteed OHKO with any hazard damage 252 SpA Rash Life Orb CAP4 HP Electric vs. 220 SpD Calm Jellicent: 132 ~ 156, chance of 3HKO
Things to note:
We outright OHKO-2HKO many of the game's best physical walls using Megahorn
CAP4 takes chunks out of some of the game's best special walls using special moves
Capacity to hit from either spectrum means these calculations were for okay-case scenario, meaning in practice CAP4 will hit even harder if using the right moves
Having used Life Orb means that results can be more effective if risk is rewarded by using Choice Band/Specs and boosting moves
Bonus little comparison between a couple other similar spreads
Speed: So, let me start by saying that this entire spread was created with only the speed stat in mind. Originally, I had wanted to go with the lower stat of 65, but due to the requirements of the spread, I found that nearly impossible to do. However, I feel 79 covers everything we should want from the speed stat, and nothing more. The key thing I was looking for was the ability to outspeed Tornadus-T after a single speed boost. Now, anything 65 or higher can do this, but 79 is nice because it is high enough to achieve this feat without needing a positive speed nature. However, there is a lot more too this stat than that. I feel that, while the reward of beating such fast Pokemon with a boost is nice, that alone is not enough to promote Weak Armor use over the other two abilities. To do that, there also needs to be the downside of not using it. In this situation, that downside would be underspeeding base 80 and above Pokemon like Dragonite and Gyarados. Yet, at the same time, since many of these Pokemon prefer neutral speed nature, it is close enough to have a chance to outspeed should you opt for the faster nature, meaning the speed is no where near useless for sets that opt for No Guard or Illusion. The other key advantage of 79 is that it is above Heatran's 77. By typing and stats, Heatran would appear to be well suited to counter CAP4. However, since we do not want to have real counters, I feel outspeeding Heatran is necessary, so it cannot easily come in and force us out.
HP: When it came to this Pokemon's bulk, I really wanted to make sure that the gap between physical and special bulkiness was huge. I feel that this is the best way to let it function, while still providing it with what it needs to be a risky Pokemon. Now 102 HP is a decently high number, but is certainly not over the top. I feel that, by having an HP stat like this, it lets us provide the physical bulk and special frailty that we need without forcing investment for the defence to be worthwhile. At the same time, the HP is not ridiculous enough that the low SpD is made to mean less.
Def: Now, as I'm sure you can see, this spread has a lot of physical bulk. That was one of the goals that I had from the very beginning, to make sure CAP4 could have excellent physical bulk to let it take advantage of everything else we have given it. As such, the Def stat of 112 was chosen as it maximized the physical tankieness of this spread, given the HP stat. The hope I have is that, in a Cloyster like fashion this Pokemon will be able to easily take physical hits, and use the opportunities they are given from them to take advantage of Weak Armor, or a boosting move, or simply a free turn to attack.
SpD: However, once again, like Cloyster, one has to be careful when switching CAP4 into attacks, as, while it can take physical moves with impunity, special hits are made to be its bane. 102/59 Special bulk is by no means awful the way Cloyster is, but in OU, with weaknesses to a few common special moves, and few resistances to them, it will not be surviving many shots. To be specific, the point of this SpD stat was to make the Special Tankieness as low as it could go while still being legal. Now, it ended up a few points higher than that to round out the BST, but it is still low enough to be the obvious achilles heel of this CAP.
Atk: Finally we get to the offensive stats. As they are here, these were the last parts of my spread to be decided on. I have always believed that if we want this Pokemon to be have mixed offenses, then we need to give it higher attack than special attack. The fact is, people gravitate towards safe choices. That is what this concept is all about, making a Pokemon who's reward is good enough that people will forgo the safe choice. However, I think we need to take that into account within this Pokemon as well. The fact is, Special Bug/Psychic is a relatively safe choice. Sure there are a few risky moves, but they are all accurate and decently powerful enough with small chances of an extra effect. Physical does not have that guarantee. So, if we want people to go both ways on the offensive spectrum, we need to provide reward for going physical, and I see no better way to do that that with a higher Atttack stat. Now, with the low, but not pathetic speed stat of 79, there is plenty of room within the stat limits for us to give CAP4 high offenses, and so I started with an attack stat of 129. 129 is well known for being the Attack stat of OU powerhouse Terrakion. While certainly not the highest in OU, it is more than enough to power through most of the metagame, as Terrakion has shown. I definitely this that this stat will give us all the power we need to be a force in OU without going overboard. Now, it is true that Terrakion has arguably better STABs to work with, but what we have is...
SpA: ...a good special attack stat. 119, while not a true powerhouse, is more than enough to be a potent threat in the OU metagame, as many many Pokemon have shown us. The key to it though is, of course, the fact that it sits right next to such a potent attack stat. Most Pokemon that will cause problems for a physical set are frail enough on the special side for a special set to break them, and vice versa. The main thing I wanted to get across with this stat was that it is enough to let CAP4 stand alone as a good special attacker, but low enough to provide some reward for people who do decide to go physical.
Calcs: I'll edit some of these in if I get the chance.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fat PokNinjaGuy
(Post 4422699)
Been lurking from the beginning of CAP4, just wanted to put my ideas out there.
I think the relatively high HP allows it for overall bulk, and the high defense but low special defense allows it to actually abuse weak armor.
The speed tier is nice to me; before a boost CAP4 would be slower than most of the metagame, but at +1 with max EVs it would outspeed even 120s with neutral nature, but not Tornadus-t (121), which would be a major threat with hurricane to cap4. I feel that this makes the decision on the nature very important and puts CAP4 in an interesting speed tier. One must decide whether it needs to outspeed tornadus-t or have the extra power. Because CAP4 will most likely need both attacking stats, it will also have to decide whether to completely give up on special defense or allow its physical defense to be lower and risk being killed more easily when deciding nature
The high offensive stats allow it to actually be competent without the speed boost and to put its PS and SS within the boundaries with this speed stat.
I also believe that this spread would make CAP4 capable of running a potent choice scarf set with no guard or illusion, gaining the ability to safely use low accuracy moves or the element of surprise, as well as not having a defense drop, but it would have to switch more often as it'd be locked into one move, and CAP4 has a stealth rock weakness making switching itself a risk.
I like even offenses for maximal mixed potential, this defense and hp gives CAP4 enough to survive 252+ terrakion SE as previously mentioned, now with a bit more leeway
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fat uwnim
(Post 4422542)
121 HP / 116 Atk / 96 Def / 111 SpA / 55 SpD / 81 Spe
252 HP 88 Def 168 SpD Relaxed Ferrothorn
HP Fire 270-322 (76.7 - 91.47%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
135-161 (38.35 - 45.73%) during Rain
Flamethrower 369-437 (104.82 - 124.14%) -- guaranteed OHKO
182-218 (51.7 - 61.93%) during Rain
Fire Blast 468-551 (132.95 - 156.53%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Fire Blast 234-276 (66.47 - 78.4%) during Rain
Megahorn 130-153 (36.93 - 43.46%)
Genesect
Hidden Power Fire 374-442 (132.15 - 156.18%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Hidden Power Fire 182-218 (64.31 - 77.03%) Rain
Flamethrower 499-593 (176.32 - 209.54%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Flamethrower 250-296 (88.33 - 104.59%) -- 25% chance to OHKO In Rain
4 HP 252 SpD Dragonite
Hidden Power Ice 143-169 (44.13 - 52.16%) Multiscale
Hidden Power Ice 286-338 (88.27 - 104.32%) -- 25% chance to OHKO
252 HP 252 SpD Dragonite
Hidden Power Ice 143-169 (37.04 - 43.78%) Multiscale
Hidden Power Ice 286-338 (74.09 - 87.56%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 HP 252 SpD+ Dragonite
Hidden Power Ice 130-153 (33.67 - 39.63%) Multiscale
Hidden Power Ice 260-307 (67.35 - 79.53%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
4 HP Tyranitar
Megahorn 351-416 (102.63 - 121.63%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 HP Tyranitar
Megahorn: 351-416 (86.88 - 102.97%) -- 18.75% chance to OHKO
----------------------
And lastly, here's my comparison sheet for sake of convenience.
Code:
User.................. HP Atk Def SpA SpD Spe SF BST PT............. ST............. PS............. SS.............. BSR
Originally Posted by Fat capefeather
(Post 4391555)
Name: Risky Business
(formerly "Living On the Edge")
General Description: This Pokémon is very risky to play, but very rewarding if played correctly.
Justification: Many of the Pokémon that are successful in OU are relatively easy to play or have great "safe" options (e.g. U-turn). Yet, many other Pokémon look very powerful, but are less successful than they could be because of some large risks involved (e.g. Hydreigon), and some aren't successful at all (e.g. Honchkrow). This self-balancing concept intends to explore what it takes for a risky Pokémon to be successful, and how much inherent risk a Pokémon can get away with. It should be emphasized that this concept is NOT about luck management, but rather, it is about what the user can afford to do given his/her opponent's options, and vice versa.
Questions To Be Answered:
What is the relationship between risk and potential consequences, both positive and negative?
What kinds of inherently risky tactics are successful in the OU metagame?
Do risky Pokémon need some form of safe options (e.g. switch-ins) to be successful in OU, or can it get away with having few really safe options?
How does Substitute, a well-known "safe" move with nearly universal distribution, impact how this Pokémon is built and played?
How do existing Pokémon use and deal with risky situations?
Can risky Pokémon be played well in the early game, or are they better off put into action later on?
How do different playstyles interact with risky situations?
I actually really, really like ganj4lf's spread. It does a lot of things that I wanted to do, at the cost of being less "precise" than my submission. Just wanted to put that out there :)
I adore Deck Knight's spread and it needs some love; that base 108 Speed is critical. I feel that speed is very important for this CAP and wasn't considered in all of the spreads. Regardless, my vision for CAP4 isn't the same as everyone else's by any means; 'tis a good slate. Best of luck to all submitters!
Juicy
Oct 10th, 2012 3:38:46 PM
capefeather GRs Cousin Ganj4lf
...there may be a freudian slip in the way bugmaniacbob has voted and the number of dotes after the user names in the comparison sheet. ;)
BMB EDIT: for reference, those dots are necessary to align the columns. Any similarity to my vote is purely coincidental!
GRs Cousin Capefeather jas61692 Deck Knight uwnim ganj4lf PokNinjaGuy
I feel like we need the high offensive stats to start of with to make all the abilities work
I like the first three more - I feel that going too low with the Speed will diminish the usefulness of the poke in general and of Weak Armour in particular. Deck Knight has an awesome base 108 Speed - maybe too awesome, so it's my least preferred of the three (it also gives up a bit on mixed sweeping capabilities). Anyway, any of those three would make me very happy with the outcome, the other four...well, not so much.
(also @ Birkal - you spelled my name even worse that the slate does xD please fix that. Juicy and Shrooomtastic too...)
ScottPilgrim
Oct 10th, 2012 3:47:14 PM
jas61292
GRs Cousin
uwnim
PokNinjaGuy
umbriel
Oct 10th, 2012 3:55:50 PM
Deck Knight
ganj41lf
akela
Oct 10th, 2012 3:57:18 PM
uwnim
GRs Cousin
capefeather
adhdtv
Oct 10th, 2012 4:01:11 PM
Deck Knight
ganj41lf
All I want to do is be able to outspeed scarfed infernapes, genesects and thunderus-T's at +1.
noobiess
Oct 10th, 2012 4:02:03 PM
ganj4lf
PokNinjaGuy
DarkSlay
Oct 10th, 2012 4:12:31 PM
jas61292
uwnim
GRs Cousin
Not happy with most of the spreads on here. jas' is about as close to what I imagined would be a great spread for CAP4. The next two are just okay for me. The rest either are very bulky overall and/or have the ability to be great regardless of ability and movepool, which is not risky to me. I usually don't complain about spread selection, but some of these choices definitely detract from what direction we should be going in, in my opinion. That said, congrats to those who made it, and thanks for all the hard work you guys put into making spreads!
PokNinjaGuy
Oct 10th, 2012 4:17:38 PM
jas61292
capefeather
PokNinjaGuy
uwnim
GRs Cousin
Zacchaeus
Oct 10th, 2012 4:19:59 PM
GRs Cousin
jas61292
uwnim
The BST is too damn high
SpecsX
Oct 10th, 2012 4:20:01 PM
Deck Knight
capefeather
uwnim
meteor64
Oct 10th, 2012 4:24:59 PM
capefeather
jas61292
GRs Cousin
They're remarkably similar to mine so I'm fine with the slate., I mean, capes is almost defensively identical to mine (2 less def and 1 less sp.def) and the only somewhat significant difference is the speed, hence the no.1 vote.
