- - The Heist
(http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3474237)
Zebraiken
Nov 2nd, 2012 9:33:50 PM
The Heist
The Heist · · · · · · ·
Introduction
Hey guys. It's been quite a while since I've posted one of my teams, but I finally got another one that's worth the effort. I've been using this team on the ladder the past two months or so, and it's definitely not short of achievements in that respect. I don't have screenshots because of that first reset, but I was somewhere around 600-55 between various accounts using this team alone, and at one point I had every single alt in the top 5. The alts that I used the most, Grounded and Zebraiken, sat at the top of the ladder ever since I had began laddering with this team. It was just downright one of the most fun teams I had ever played with, and I've really enjoyed laddering with it regardless of how stupid the NU ladder gets sometimes (I mean really, Acupressure + Mud Slap Dodrio?). The Heist also went 5-2 throughout the NU Open, losing only to mfhoundoom (who basically brought everything that this team struggles with in one match) and FLCL, who won the whole shebang.
The Heist started off by being a rather silly attempt to use Life Orb Torterra + Rock Polish Golurk + SR Golem all together on one team (hence the alt name Grounded), but it gradually evolved throughout a few hundred matches to the bulky offense team that it is today. It has very few poor matchups and only really struggles against rare threats, primarily Ice-types like Articuno (especially if I cannot keep SR up) and grounded Poison-types like Muk or Arbok. This team was essentially the harbinger of the infamous Bulk Up Braviary, although I can't quite say it was built to perfectly capitalize off of BU Brav's capabilities - rather, Braviary was just the perfect glue for an otherwise decent-at-best team and pushed this team to make it what it is. That said, it's really started burning out on me and I'm just not having as much fun using it as I used to. Plus, people have actually started to use things that beat it, which is a real shame. I'm not saying you shouldn't use it on the ladder anymore, but everyone's much more prepared for the threats that this team carries and these cores have become very common nowadays, meaning that more often than not people will have the tools to break this kind of team apart.
This team is named after the absolutely fantastic album from Macklemore, which was released a little while ago and I've been listening to it daily since (sorry Heist, I didn't really mean to name this after you but it just worked out that way!). If you haven't heard it yet, go give it a listen... though I can't imagine you haven't at least heard Thrift Shop. Also, just a warning: this is quite a hefty read, so turn back now if you don't want to read a lot, haha. I'd prefer to thoroughly explain how I used this team and how I built it to help out those who are new to the tier or want to learn more about it rather than keep it short just for the sake of it. :) Lastly, throwing out props to FLCL, MMF, and Raseri in particular for being amazing friends and helping me work out the kinks on this team and many others throughout the last few months. You guys (and everyone else in #neverused) are the best.
this the part of the show
where it all fades away
where the lights fade to black
and the band leaves the stage
and you wanted an encore, but there's no encore today
because the moment is now, can't get it back from the grave
I originally wanted to build a team around LO Torterra. MMF and I were talking about how awesome it was in the current metagame, and he had just built his own team with it and was smashing up the ladder. LO Torterra was cool because it's essentially one of the best bulky pivots available in NU, and it also wrecked Alomoongus with SR or some kind of hazards up, 2HKOing both of 'em. It did take a fuckton of recoil from using Wood Hammer on Alomomola, but I planned to make my team be able to abuse its absence as well as get as many opportunities for Torterra to wreck as it could.
Naturally, the next step was to pick out an offensive partner who creates opportunities for Torterra to smash and hopefully benefited from it. LO Torterra puts the most pressure on physically defensive walls like Alomomola and Regirock, so ideally this offensive partner would be some kind of physical sweeper to continue our focus on breaking through teams from the physical spectrum. It'd make no sense to pair Torterra with something like Gorebyss, as they already would just clear out the same walls and provide no other benefits to one another aside from Torterra being immune to Electric-type attacks. Instead, I decided that I wanted to pick out a bird (ie, Swellow or Braviary) who could lure Rock- and Steel-types and U-turn into Torterra to either force them out and smack something else hard or to get rid of them and allow Swellow / Braviary to sweep later in the game.
I actually settled with Swellow instead of Braviary for a few reasons. Firstly, I didn't want to make an incredibly slow team which I'm rather prone to doing. That speed issue would've only been fixed by chucking a Scarf onto Braviary, and since I feel like that's a waste of Braviary's potential I just avoided that altogether. Secondly... actually, I'm fairly sure speed was the only reason I picked Swellow > Braviary. I did plan to add Spikes to the team after this. Maybe the fact that Swellow abuses Spikes better than Braviary also influenced me, I dunno.
Between Swellow and Torterra I figured I'd be forcing plenty of switches, and I was honestly dying to try out an offensive Garbodor set so I decided that I wanted to throw on Spikes at this point. I think I used Gunk Shot / Drain Punch / Seed Bomb / Spikes with max speed + Jolly - Garbo sits at a nice speed tier which lets him outspeed some relevant offensive threats like +Spe Ludicolo and Samurott, as well as neutral Absol, and hit them all pretty hard. It gives me an option between just spiking up and going on the offensive and options are always good. :)
I stopped for about an hour or so here because I just couldn't think of what I wanted to add next, so I just threw on Rock Polish Golurk because I wanted to test it out (plus it outspeeds Scarf Rotom-A!). It also spinblocks for Garbodor and appreciates Torterra's ability to smash stuff in the early game. I don't really have any other reasons for it besides that I really hadn't used Golurk before and I wanted to give a non-CB set a go (since CB was all the rage at the time).
I took stock of what I had here and realized I was absolutely reamed by Gorebyss as well as generally any boosting Water-type; NP + Salac Simipour, SD Samurott, probably even CM Golduck would all have their way with the team that I had so far. Also, any random rain team could come through and clean up. I decided to give Ludicolo a go because it's generally a great check to every boosting Water-type and at least gives me a chance to win the speed tie against SD Samurott (I think I accidentally used Scarf Ludicolo in my first match but I fixed it immediately afterwards lol).
Likewise, I didn't carry any Flying-type resists and adding Ludicolo made me even weaker to opposing Swellow and Scarf Braviary. I added Golem, who is probably my all-time favorite SR setter in NU and was generally amazing now that people had stopped over-preparing for it a while back (looking at you, Bullet Seed Cacturne!). It's just the most reliable SR user in the tier aside from Regirock, and Golem's Sturdy is an amazing lifesaving tool when you need it. Right before I started laddering with this team, I noticed that I actually had 3 Ground-types on it, hence the alt name Grounded. =]
I played a few matches and got lucky in some of them against some incredibly dangerous threats that I had totally forgotten about while I was teambuilding. For one, Gurdurr had next to no troubles running through me, which is somewhat surprising since I carried all of Garbodor, Swellow, and Golurk. However, both Garbo and Golurk had difficulty touching Gurdurr since I was using the offensive Garbo set w/o Clear Smog or anything and Golurk was a Jolly LO variant (for outspeeding Rotom-S at +2) and was outdamaged 1 vs 1. Piloswine also had little trouble with my team, tanking hits from basically everything and revenging all of Swellow, Torterra, and Golurk with Ice Shard while Garbo and Golem couldn't touch it and were reamed by EQ. I also got demolished by an SD Samurott who won the tie with my own Ludicolo. I think I also almost got wrecked by a NP Raichu with HP Ice at one point, which was a bit embarrassing.
Having this many issues after only a few matches usually means a few things to me: either I'm misplaying horribly, or my team isn't built as well as I originally imagined it was. I looked back through what I had and figured that more than anything, RP Golurk was being absolutely dead weight and really only doubled up on weaknesses. It also never ever got the opportunity to set up and when it did, it was too weak to make any kind of impact on the opposing team. So, I went back and said screw that, let's use something else fast and cool and preferably able to at least check most of these issues I was having. I ended up picking out a Simipour because it seemed to fit - outsped Raichu, OHKOed Piloswine, checked SD Samurott. It doesn't really beat Gurdurr in any significant way but at least I cut something that already was losing to Gurdurr, right?
Experimentation doesn't always work out though. :/ Simipour underperformed in every scenario and actually made me tremendously weak to opposing Ludicolo (well actually it didn't make it much worse than before, but it was complete set-up bait for Ludi). The set I used (SubNP + Salac) still lost to Samurott because I had to choose between either Ice Beam or HP Electric for coverage, and I wasn't about to auto-lose to any Amoonguss that decided to switch in. It's not like it was particularly awful, it just definitely wasn't what I was looking for with this team. Instead, I settled with using ol' reliable, my own SD Samurott. Even if it didn't check everything I was expecting it to on paper, I didn't really care. Samurott is probably my favorite Pokemon to use in NU, simply because it's so incredibly reliable in the sense that it'll do its job no matter what team (or how bad of a team) you throw it onto. Samurott's Aqua Jet would also help me keep a lot of faster threats like Cinccino, Swellow etc that I was struggling with.
Samurott helped a little bit, but I was still really struggling with fast Normal-types (primarily Cinccino, Zangoose and to a lesser extent Kangaskhan) because I play incredibly suicidally with Golem, as well as stuff like Emboar and Braviary, who I really had nothing to switch into. Swellow could revenge all of these but I couldn't afford to sacrifice anything whenever something dangerous came in to try to revenge it later. There were several changes I toyed with here, but ultimately I settled on the fact that I had to get rid of Swellow. It was doing a really good job of U-turning on Rock- and Steel-types to give Torterra an opportunity to attack, but aside from that and revenging said threats it really wasn't holding its water on an otherwise bulky offense team. After a bit of thought, I decided that I should use Gurdurr instead. Gurdurr is probably one of the best Normal-type checks in the tier, especially given the fact that it doesn't carry a resist to them. It can live a hit from almost anything of that nature (only CB Braviary and Guts-boosted Swellow can OHKO it with their STAB Flying-type moves) and retaliate back with Drain Punch and then Mach Punch for the KO. It gave me a sense of security that Swellow never provided and it turned out to be an excellent addition to the team.
Swellow wasn't the only Pokemon underperforming, though. While the Garbodor set I had been using was neat in theory (being able to outspeed and OHKO both Ludicolo and Absol), it really didn't work as well on paper as it did in practice. What I really needed more than anything was a better Cinccino check and Emboar switch-in. Gurdurr did an okay job at this, except he was actually 2HKOed by both of them after SR which was a real pain. I ended up switching up my Garbodor set to a defensive spread with a Rocky Helmet, and decided I'd try out a few moves that had previously gone unused by most other Garbodor. I'm particularly proud of that set as it became my go-to for a ton of threats in the current meta and really was what made this team jump above 'average'. I'll go into more detail about it in the in-depth explanations!
At this point, I felt like my team was very solid but definitely not perfect. There were still a few major weaknesses, notably the fact that Musharna was a giant pain in the ass, as it is for many a team. It could set up on all of Garbodor, Gurdurr, and Golem with impunity, while Ludicolo really couldn't do anything to it after a boost, Samurott had to nail two 90% accurate Megahorns (missing them cost me the match several times...) and Torterra had to basically suicide itself to Overgrow range with Wood Hammer to make more than a dent into it. It was also super difficult to break through Alomoonguss cores, even though Garbodor could now set up Spikes all day on them. Making changes this late into the game is really never easy, but the one conclusion I kept coming back to was that Samurott... while one of my favorite mons and generally being effective in nearly every match, did not have any real purpose on this team. I decided to replace it with Skuntank, which did essentially everything I needed Samurott to do - check Ludicolo, revenge various things, whatever - and also eliminated Musharna for me. Having a guaranteed Musharna counter was absolutely amazing and meant that I wouldn't have to sacrifice nearly all of my team when facing the fetus thing just to get it to the point that I could kill it.
Skuntank didn't really fix my susceptibility to Alomoonguss, though. It wasn't that I couldn't beat them, it was just that my only means of doing so was too easily taken advantage of. Not only was it difficult for Torterra to reliably switch in on either Amoonguss or Alomomola (being neutral to all their attacks and susceptible to every status move that both carry...) but it had difficulties even just performing the job it was meant to do. If I were to try to switch it into Alomomola but accidentally catch a Toxic, I'd have to WH on the Protect, try to nail Amoonguss with EQ on the switch-in, then I have to guess whether or not he'll go back to Alom or stay in or switch out to something else entirely to Regen back up and all the while I'm taking Toxic damage, WH recoil damage, LO recoil damage... It didn't help that Torterra absolutely floundered against any kind of offensive team, whose members are almost always faster than Torterra. All signs pointed to the fact that Torterra was holding my team back and I needed to find something else to do its job better.
I tested out various stallbreakers over Torterra, but most didn't fulfill my expectations and were too easily taken advantage of, or they were set up on by other things that my team really didn't need to be dealing with. I was QC checking a Braviary set where I stumbled upon a suggestion by user: alexwolf that Braviary might want to use a Sub + Bulk Up set to set up on Alomomola etc. I figured that I might as well test it (but with strong Brave Bird over weak Return) and it turned out to be a perfect fit for this team and propelled this team far and above my expectations. KACAW
And that is how I built this team! I know that those pictures aren't in the order that I'll talk about them but they are outside of this spoiler and I'm too lazy to go back and change them now. :toast:
Jimmy Iovine (Golem) @ Lum Berry
Trait: Sturdy
EVs: 92 HP / 252 Atk / 164 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Rock Blast
- Sucker Punch
If you've never seen this set, you definitely haven't played NU in the last like six months. This is the most standard set for Golem and has been around for ages, but it still works wonderfully time and time again. I think there was a little stint in late BW1 NU where Raseri popularized using Toxic over Sucker Punch, which was absolutely amazing for luring Quagsire and Tangela, but other than that this is the tried and true Golem set and it hasn't changed. It's typically my lead unless I spy a potential counter-lead like Samurott or Cacturne, and I'll change my lead accordingly. Nearly all players just assume I'll lead with Golem and that I will let them drop it to its Sturdy just to get up SR - while that is all Golem has to do in some matchups, I often rely on Golem to do a lot more than that and I'll save it for midgame or later. Otherwise, I usually play very suicidally with Golem and I'll stay in in most situations where people expect me to switch out (I really can't tell you how many people have tried to set up their Gorebyss on Golem while I just EQ + Sucker Punch for a free KO and my Sturdy not even broken).
Golem's got several utilities that are of varying importance to this team, mostly depending on team matchup. Sturdy is probably the best part about Golem and it's the primary reason I prefer it over any other Stealth Rock user. It's just useful in so many situations, letting me stay in without fear when stuff like the above Gorebyss situation happens, or helping me stall out rain turns or whatever by eating a Surf and using Rock Blast, then Sucker Punching whatever else to death. If the opponent carries any kind of spinner, I often keep Golem out of harm's way until I can kill off the spinner and set up SR safely. Getting up SR and keeping it is of utmost importance to this team, especially given how weak it can be to stuff like Articuno - also, if I let Golem drop to its Sturdy, all that I have left to check Braviary / Swellow is SR, various forms of priority, and residual damage via Aftermath and Rocky Helmet. Rock Blast is vital to deal with stuff like Baton Pass teams which sort of had a spike in popularity a while ago but people stopped using them for some reason despite the fact that they're incredible. I'll also save a 1 HP Golem if the opponent has no hazards up, because it means that later I've either got something to sack if needed or I can fire off a Sucker Punch and hopefully snipe something that's gotten out of control.
Lum Berry over Leftovers is nothing but personal preference; the utility from Leftovers is very useful sometimes (notably for getting Sturdy back from switching into SR) but I've found that I really prefer Lum Berry for security and not having to worry about stuff like fast Exeggutor preventing me from getting SR up with Sleep Powder. Lefties would certainly absolve a few weaknesses but at the same time it also creates a few others. There have been a few games where I wished I had Leftovers, but many others where I was really glad I had Lum. Also, I run a lot more Speed than standard (and actually I creep beyond this spread I gave), primarily to outrun Golurk and 2HKO it with Earthquake while it either brings Golem down to Sturdy or it just sets up its own SR. Golurk is actually one of the biggest threats to this team when played well, so taking it out with Golem early on gives me a great advantage for the midgame and beyond.
I put my life on the line
I roll them dice and I'm fine
Cause all I ever dreamt about was makin' it
They ain't giving it, I'm taking it
Thrift Shop (Garbodor) @ Rocky Helmet
Trait: Aftermath
EVs: 252 HP / 144 Def / 112 Spd
Impish Nature
- Spikes
- Toxic
- Pain Split
- Rock Blast
Garbodor is the glue that holds my team together, against offensive, balanced, and defensive teams alike. This set is probably my favorite Garbo set I've ever used, which is saying a lot since I've used quite a few Garbo sets. Most defensive or bulky Garbodor sets prior to this were usually some combination of Spikes or Toxic Spikes / Clear Smog / Gunk Shot / Rock Blast @ Lefties, but I always felt that those sets were missing a lot of utility and stability (plus having a 70% accurate attack as your STAB with no investment tends to be a pretty awful idea in my experience). Garbodor received Pain Split from BW2 tutors iirc, and it's what really makes this set better than most others as it gives Garbo legitimate recovery. Garbo can set up Spikes on literally every defensive Pokemon in the tier and fears nothing but Taunt (and Will-O-Wisp / Spore, kinda). Amoonguss, Alomomola, Miltank, Tangela, Cradily, Regirock, even Gurdurr - you name it, it's Spikes bait. Toxic is super useful against these kinds of teams too and lets Garbodor win all of these matchups one on one, as well as catching Musharna and Gardevoir on the switch-in. I've actually stalled many a Miltank out of Heal Bell PP entirely just because I could take a few Body Slams (while they take RH damage), Toxic it, Pain Split back up to full, etc. Pain Split just makes it sososo reliable at just getting up multiple layers over and over against defensive teams, it's not even funny.
That doesn't mean it's dead weight against offensive teams though, either. While it doesn't have nearly as many opportunities to stack up Spikes in a higher-paced offensive match, it usually can sneak its way in on a Fighting-type move and grab a layer or two. It's my favorite switch-in to stuff like Emboar, as Emboar will just Flare Blitz it and take more than half of its HP with Rocky Helm + recoil, and then take another dose of RH + recoil + Aftermath beyond that as it KOes Garbodor after I grab a layer (also fuck the people who still run Earthquake Emboar x_x). This works for just about everything too, from CB Braviary to Swellow to Kangaskhan or whatever else.
I run quite a lot of Speed, but this is mostly because I have found that I am weak to my own Braviary set. Being able to outrun the standard spread for BU Braviary and Toxic it after breaking its Sub is essentially the only way I can stop it from running over my team, unless a) it's running weak Return in which case Gurdurr can set up alongside it or b) I get lucky with some predictions from Skuntank and weaken it a bit and keep the Sub away, then force it out with Ludicolo. Rock Blast is also essentially a filler move. I had a few different moves there to test them all out earlier but I found I liked Rock Blast the best for two primary reasons. One, my team really doesn't like SubDisable Haunter at all, and I don't want to insta-lose to it if Skuntank dies. Two, it has occasionally hit more than twice and done significant damage to a very threatening Articuno lategame. I'd be fine with any suggestions for replacements, but keep in mind I've tested quite a lot of stuff and nothing fits too well there outside of Rock Blast, haha.
I’m gonna pop some tags, only got twenty dollars in my pocket
I’m, I’m, I’m hunting, looking for a come up, this is fucking awesome
I’m digging, I’m digging, I’m searching right through that luggage
One man’s trash, that’s another man’s come up
An incredibly standurrd set (so I probably won't have as much to say about it as the rest), but still one of my favorite mons to use. It has pretty solid defensive bulk and lets me check all of the incredibly dangerous Normal-types in NU, like Kangaskhan, Zangoose, Cinccino, etc. Garbodor is an excellent pivot and can rack up a ton of damage simply by switching into those guys, but most of the time I prefer to double switch Gurdurr in to threaten them out and rack up Spikes damage. Mach Punch also gives me a third form of priority (outside of Golem and Skuntank) and helps me finish off weakened stuff like Floatzel, Swellow, Zangoose and the like. Those all have priority, and are faster than Skuntank, so I really don't like trying to push the Sucker Punch mindgame with them and prefer to just finish them off with Mach Punch if they're in range.
Gurdurr is my primary tool against most offensive or hyper offense-esque teams. It's bulky enough to take a hit from just about anything except Psychic-types and boosted Flying-types (Choice Scarf Braviary fails to OHKO with Brave Bird!) and the combination of Drain Punch and Mach Punch allows it to take punishment and trade off a bit of its HP in exchange for KOing a threat that would otherwise run through my team. This is particularly helpful against stuff like Shell Smash Carracosta, who would 6-0 me if I didn't carry Gurdurr. I don't think there's anything else in the tier that gives me the combination of bulk, power, and priority that it carries. Against bulkier teams though, Gurdurr is more or less dead weight. It can't boost on really anything without fear of getting statused, and even with Guts activated it doesn't hit hard enough to break Musharna, Garbodor, or Alomomola. I have experimented with a couple different out-of-the-norm sets, like Toxic > Bulk Up to nail incoming Alomomola and Musharna, but it turned out to be more situational than helpful and I really missed being able to Bulk Up on more offensive teams and straight up sweeping. That, and people kept using dumb things like Rest + Curse Cradily when I wasn't using Bulk Up so yeaaah. If I were to replace anything on my team, this would be it... but I don't know if anything can even replace it for me. :(
Underneath this fragile frame
Lives a battle between pride and shame
But I’ve misplaced that sense of fright
This crown of thorns is perched atop my spine
But listen closely as I testify
Dependency has been a thief at night
Thief at night, thief at night
Can't Hold Us (Braviary) @ Leftovers
Trait: Defiant
EVs: 252 HP / 176 SDef / 80 Spd
Careful Nature
- Substitute
- Roost
- Bulk Up
- Brave Bird
KACAW. SubBU Braviary is a monster, and anyone who has faced it will probably agree. It sets up on every defensive threat in NU bar Power Gem + Toxic Probopass, and even bulky Rock-types like Regirock are stalled out of Stone Edge / Rock Slide PP thanks to Substitute and Roost, and then Brav has freedom to just boost up to +6 / +6 and destroy everything. Braviary has 100 base HP on the dot, letting him make 101 Subs (preventing stuff like Seismic Toss Miltank, Hypno, and Lickilicky from ruining the fun). The given EV spread also always prevents Amoonguss's Sludge Bomb and Alomomola's Scald from OHKOing and 2HKOing Braviary's Sub respectively, and 80 Speed allows Braviary to outrun max Spe Adamant Rampardos (which I have lost a match to before, thanks to it outspeeding what I had before). This thing is next to impossible to beat if you don't carry any of the following: a bulky Electric-type, an Encore user, Golem or something that can use Rock Blast, or SubDisable Haunter. That's it. Super effective attacks? There was one match where I set up on a Choice Band Golurk locked into Ice Punch and proceeded to win the game.
This set is used rather than any other Braviary set because I needed something that could shred through defensive teams (especially Amoonguss) for me without suiciding itself on Brave Bird recoil + SR. I had Ludicolo, who is an awesome offensive threat, but a neutral nature 90 base Special Attack just isn't enough to punch through things like SpDef Amoonguss or Lickilicky. That said, SubBU Brav doesn't always hold its weight against more offensive teams. Against teams like Zangoose / Rotom-A / Ludicolo / whatever, Brav's role is usually just to tank some attacks that you wouldn't expect it to be able to (it lives a Swellow Facade, with no rocks up) and just hit hard with Brave Bird, even with no investment. One thing that I've seriously considered is changing the spread back up to 252 Atk / 252 Spe Jolly, which prevents it from being revenged / stopped by a lot more things (Ludicolo, Samurott, outspeeding Taunt Skuntank) and makes it significantly more useful against offensive teams as well as a lot stronger, but the additional special bulk and 101 HP subs are quite nice. I don't know, but being able to live a Rotom-A Thunderbolt has saved my ass in more than a few matches. It's worth thinking about if you plan on using this team, though.
Anyway, just to reiterate myself: Braviary is incredible and well-deserving of its S-rank in NU.
Here we go back, this is the moment
Tonight is the night, we’ll fight till it’s over
So we put our hands up like the ceiling can’t hold us
Like the ceiling can’t hold us
Make the Money (Skuntank) @ Leftovers
Trait: Aftermath
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Poison Jab
- Taunt
- Pursuit
- Sucker Punch
Another rather standard set, but one of the best "safety valve" Pokemon you can get. I actually disliked using Skuntank for quite a long time before FLCL converted me to appreciate it, and now I use it on like every team smh. I basically rely on Skuntank as a backup check to everything, even in situations like trying to face down a +2 Gorebyss that just crit my Ludicolo. I deviate from the standard spread a little (which is 20 HP / 252 Atk / 232 Spe, iirc) because I don't think the 20 HP is worth all that mach and it gives me the ability to tie with other skunks at the very worst, which has won me a skunk war multiple times. Poison Jab is much much much better than Crunch in my experience, as mono-Dark coverage is pretty mediocre and Poison Jab lets me do things like KO an Absol at ~60% and 2HKO Emboar on the switch-in. I can always play around Musharna and stuff too, since Skuntank puts pressure on Musharna and it's usually rather easy to identify what it's gonna do depending on how much HP Musharna has left and the decisions that my opponent has made throughout the match.
Aftermath is an awesome and underrated tool of Skuntank's. If I'm facing down something like CB Braviary and all I have left is Skuntank out and a slightly weakened Gurdurr in the back, Sucker Punch + Aftermath + BB recoil will push Braviary down into Mach Punch range for the win. If Braviary switched into SR, it's basically dead from BBing Skuntank. Outside of checking basically everything in NU, Skuntank's primary role is beating Musharna for the rest of my team. No matter what Musharna does, if I predict correctly I can push it into KO range for everything else on my team, especially after it takes hazard damage from switching back in later. Skuntank is also my go-to guy for getting damage onto dangerous Pokemon like Articuno (even though it's kinda pitiful damage, being able to Taunt it and at least try to poison it is always good) and Eelektross.
p.s. thank you to ium for drawing the picture of cute skuntank viciously murdering a musharna :>
Make the money, don't let the money make you
Change the game, don't let the game change you
I'll forever remain faithful
All my people stay true
Thin Line (Ludicolo) @ Life Orb
Trait: Swift Swim
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature
- Giga Drain
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam
- Rain Dance
IMO, Ludicolo is hands-down the best Pokemon in NU. It just checks so much as an offensive Pokemon while also being incredibly threatening after a single turn of setup... if you haven't used Ludicolo in NU yet, you should. Anyway, Ludi is my primary form of offense early to mid-game until I get Brav rolling, and is my primary method of forcing switches thanks to its insane coverage. Just about everything that can "reliably" switch into Ludicolo is set-up bait for Garbodor, and I often make use of double-switching early in the game to drop a few layers and make it easier on Ludicolo when the opponent's team needs to be put out of its misery. What's really nice is that Ludicolo puts a ton of pressure on every single spinner in the tier, threatening to OHKO all of them before they can get a spin off which really eases my worries about them. Spinners are always a pain for teams like this that carry hazards but no Ghost-type, but I am really not too worried about them simply because Ludicolo is mitey.
While it's an excellent offensive tool, Ludicolo also holds my team together against basically every other Water-type in NU. Being able to live a +2 Gorebyss Ice Beam and OHKOing in return is something that nothing else in the tier can do. I've thought about running a bulkier set to help Ludicolo fit more into the "bulky" mold of my team (and also so I don't get fucked when Gorebyss crits my Ludicolo) but running max Speed is vital for it to keep Swords Dance Samurott from always outspeeding and mutilating it with Megahorn. Samurott is a pretty strong threat to the rest of my team, so it's pretty important for Ludicolo to at least act as a check. I have also debated with using Modest as it outspeeds everything in rain anyway (plus it actually lets me win 1vs1 against other Ludicolo) but just lets it hit much harder, but there's still the issue of losing to Jolly Samurott. :/
Bought a one night stand, just a bootleg
A duplication of something authentic
Heart augmented, and it’s so hard to end it
I said peace before but this time I meant it
· · · · · · ·
Threat List
I've already got an idea of nearly all of the weaknesses that this team has, but none of them are really very simple to change and making some of these changes will just make my team even weaker to other threats. If you're going to shoot me a rate, it'd be appreciated if you read through this so you know what I think about several threats that I've already faced with this team and how I'm meant to deal with them (or my thoughts on what I might've changed to deal with 'em).
threats, kind of long-ish
http://veekun.com/dex/media/pokemon/icons/24.pngPoison-types: I don't really like condensing my threat list to simply "Poison-types", but almost all of the pure Poison-types are really big problems for various reasons. Firstly, none of them have any difficulty switching into more than half of my team (Gurdurr / Garbodor / Skuntank), carry a super effective STAB on Ludicolo, and several of them can set up alongside Braviary (Arbok, Muk) while others outright stop its setup (Haze / Thunderbolt Weezing). Any matchup where there's a pure Poison-type I have to be super careful with how I play Golem, as it's often the key to getting rid of these guys. Arbok is honestly the worst of all of these because it just sets up on everything and outspeeds + OHKOes the two mons I have that can actually damage it (Ludicolo / Golem). I'm just glad that no one ever uses Arbok, even though it's so amazingly anti-meta right now it's not even funny. I've thought about using Leftovers > Lum Berry on Golem simply for the ability to restore Sturdy as I come in on the Coil, but even that's not a perfect fix for it since it can always just EQ or Seed Bomb or Aqua Tail the switch-in and then I lose anyway. http://veekun.com/dex/media/pokemon/icons/144.pngArticuno: I have trouble with Articuno because it's retardedly bulky and I have next to nothing outside of Golem that can actually hit it hard. Skuntank does like ~35% to 4/0 Articuno with Poison Jab or Sucker Punch (which is easily Roosted off) while it gets cleanly 2HKOed by Ice Beam. I technically could Taunt the Roost but it outspeeds anyway and can just 2HKO with Ice Beam after the Taunt while still having a net gain of HP. It decimates Gurdurr and Ludicolo with Hurricane, while Brav can't touch it thanks to Ice Beam. Garbo can live a hit or two but that means I can't rely on it later to tank physical hits and spread residual damage later on, plus I also have to hit more than two Rock Blasts during its one shot at Articuno. The easiest direct fix to this would probably be to replace Golem for something like Regirock, EVed to take a few Ice Beams. While this would probably be an acceptable change, I'm really not fond of it because it makes me even weaker to stuff like Golurk who already are a big pain in the ass to my team, as well as the aforementioned Arbok and other Poison-types. There's not much else I could change to combat it without drastically messing up the team, though. :/ http://veekun.com/dex/media/pokemon/icons/623.pngGolurk: Golurk isn't too big of an issue because many people will try to KO Golem with it or get up SR early in the match, and clearing it out early is great. I also have Ludicolo to OHKO it with Hydro Pump, and Skuntank / Gurdurr can both at least 2HKO it. The problem is that Garbodor is more or less a 100% free Golurk switch-in, and I have next to nothing that can reliably come in on Golurk without the risk of being KOed within a turn or two. My general process for dealing with smart opponents using Golurk is to Toxic the switch-in, then pop over to Braviary and see what I can do about stalling it out with Substitute + Roost until it's in Brave Bird KO range. It really can't do much damage outside of taking advantage of Garbodor, but I've had a few clever opponents put a ton of pressure on me with Golurk before, so props to them. I could probably deal with this better by switching out Rock Blast for Seed Bomb or something, but then again you don't 2HKO and Rock Blast has way more utility than Seed Bomb or Giga Drain anyway. http://veekun.com/dex/media/pokemon/icons/604.pngEelektross: Eelektross is annoying primarily because nothing on my team can OHKO it, while it does a fuckton to everything. I basically have to pick and choose what's most important in that match to punch a few hits in on it and then finish up with something like Ludicolo. Many of them lead off against Golem which makes my job somewhat easier, but I'll set up SR as they Giga Drain (don't attack first or they'll just recover it all back while KOing you lol) and then try to get a good hit in with Rock Blast. This is like the only situation where I wish I had Stone Edge because Rock Blast has a shitty tendency to never hit more than twice against Eelektross. After that though, I'll switch over to Skuntank or Ludicolo and finish it off. Both of those can also tank a Specs Thunderbolt if I need them to do so. http://veekun.com/dex/media/pokemon/icons/93.pngHaunter: Although I carry some of the best answers to Haunter in the tier (Skuntank especially, and Rock Blast Garbodor / Golem aren't half bad checks either) it can still be an enormous pain to the rest of the team. Most notably, I need it out of the way before I try to begin setting up with Braviary, because SubDisable variants can Disable Brave Bird and then spam Sludge Bomb to try and crit and/or poison me and severely cut my chances of winning. It also beats Gurdurr if I mispredict with Ice Punch / Mach Punch and it outspeeds and drills Ludicolo with Sludge Bomb. It's not so much a threat that I have to change my team around for it, but it's really important to take out and I have to keep it in mind with every play I make. http://veekun.com/dex/media/pokemon/icons/324.pngSpinners: They're not as big of an issue as you might imagine, given the fact that I carry two hazard users and no Ghost-type to spinblock. Adding a Ghost-type will not remove this weakness, despite what you've been taught. That's because each of the spinners in NU have their own ways to work around Ghost-types, and trying to patch my team with a random Ghost-type will probably make more holes than the ones that they might patch. Shell Smash Torkoal is probably my most prominent threat, as nothing can significantly damage it except Ludicolo kind of, and it hits surprisingly hard at +2. One of my few potential fixes for this is to make Ludicolo into a specially defensive variant, but then I lose all of the advantages that normal Ludicolo brings for me, most notably tying with Swords Dance Samurott. My general gameplan when facing Spinners is to lure them out and drill them with Ludicolo as soon as I can, or at least land a Toxic on them with Garbodor since all three of them (Armaldo, Wartortle, Torkoal) all like to come out on Garbo. It's mostly just being careful with Golem until I can be assured that they won't be around to spin away rocks (~29% HP for Wartortle and ~35% HP for Armaldo / Torkoal accounting for Leftovers; switching into SR and then pseudo-blocking their spin by KOing them with Garbodor's Rocky Helmet.) http://veekun.com/dex/media/pokemon/icons/226.pngRain Dance Mantine: Offensive Mantine is a rare threat, but like Articuno it isn't revenged easily by anything and it has the coverage to decimate just about everything on the team. It's really only a lesser threat because it's rather uncommon, but basically I have to just keep Golem's Sturdy intact (which is usually somewhat easy, given that offensive Mantine usually appears on pure Rain Dance teams that more often than not do not carry SR). Outside of Golem, I get to play the "predict circles around them" game while eating up their HP with their LO or sack Braviary while getting a shot in on it with Brave Bird, just so Skuntank can clean up shop with a Sucker Punch.
· · · · · · ·
Conclusion
I'll keep it short, since I doubt you want to read any more than you already have. This team has been incredibly fun to use throughout its lifespan, and I wanna shout out to everyone that's helped me out with it at some point or another but then that'd be too many people. I don't really have that much to say that I haven't already, but this would feel weird without any kind of formal ending. I don't expect much in the way of rates, considering that I know this team inside and out and there isn't too much to change without drastically altering the team. Think of it more like a reference point for those trying to get into NU, I guess. To everyone that I told this would be out "tomorrow", sorry for taking so long, but I hope the wait was worth it. Thanks for reading!
Thin Line (Ludicolo) @ Life Orb
Trait: Swift Swim
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature
- Giga Drain
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam
- Rain Dance
Jimmy Iovine (Golem) @ Lum Berry
Trait: Sturdy
EVs: 92 HP / 252 Atk / 164 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Stealth Rock
- Rock Blast
- Sucker Punch
FLCL
Nov 2nd, 2012 9:41:32 PM
hi zeb took you long enough to post this!!
please use leftovers on golem to preserve your sturdy so it can switch into sr and still handle smashkoal, articuno, and mantine if it hasn't been weakened before. you're not beating things like exeggutor, amoonguss, and alomomola anyways so lum berry is only really useful for butterfree, which can be taunted by skuntank. there isn't much that this team can improve on because it's already so good, and the threats you listed can all be beaten as long as you don't mess up.
Amarillo
Nov 2nd, 2012 9:51:12 PM
I agree.
Please don't use lum berry QQ
EmeraldGoblin
Nov 2nd, 2012 10:34:24 PM
on a kinda sorta related note.... malkamore's song... same love.. great song :)
on a more related noted... choice scarf cincinno is a pain to deal with for your team if you lose gundurr :(
Agent Dell
Nov 2nd, 2012 10:54:40 PM
Yeah, I agree that Lum Berry is a tad useless since in the current metagame, the Pokemon that does tend to inflict status are things that Golem generally has a bad matchup against anyways. It would only be useful against Butterfree, and even then, you still would have Garbodor to take it down 1v1. Leftovers will be the more useful option since you'll be more durable for a while to check birds, Fire types, and Poison types much better.
I would agree that Arbok can decimate this team, but then again, you're right that it's rather uncommon, and you are at an even better grace that most Arbok still aren't Jolly natured so that they would outrun positive natured Ludicolo, so, I think you'll be fine for a while in that regard.
Must say, Zebraiken, great job. This is the most informative RMT and quite possibly the best Spikes stacking team that has ever graced BW2 NU thus far. You've gotten my Luvdisc for sure.
Honus
Nov 2nd, 2012 11:31:11 PM
"This-is-fuck-ing-awes-ome"
Seriously this is one of the best teams and albums [maybe second to the Proven Theory; I could call my next RMT that lol] and you've done a fantastic job with the presentation and descriptions. I love Balance/Bulky offense and you seem to have perfected the art in the NU Tier. Shit like that Garbodor set and SubBU Braviary [what an awesome way to circumvent Tangela] actually make me want to play in the tier again. Sorry I don't have much constructive criticism which sucks to say since I used to both play NU and be a ladybug, but this team is pretty close to being at its full potential already, and FLCL seems to have pretty much covered everything. Also I too can attest to Poison-types being annoying as fuck haha.
please use leftovers on golem to preserve your sturdy so it can switch into sr and still handle smashkoal, articuno, and mantine if it hasn't been weakened before. you're not beating things like exeggutor, amoonguss, and alomomola anyways so lum berry is only really useful for butterfree, which can be taunted by skuntank. there isn't much that this team can improve on because it's already so good, and the threats you listed can all be beaten as long as you don't mess up.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fat Amarillo
(Post 4455724)
I agree.
Please don't use lum berry QQ
i COULD do that but i still am comforted by lum. there's also the fact that i would have to switch in on all of those threats to regain sturdy, meaning if they predict correctly and attack me instead of setting up then i lose no matter what (except in the case of smashkoal, but it can just switch back out then and ko golem later on). idk i still don't think leftovers will make me _that_ much better off against those threats and i appreciate the ability to evade status from time to time. it's still a preference thing~
thanks for the rates, though!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fat Agent Dell
(Post 4455812)
Yeah, I agree that Lum Berry is a tad useless since in the current metagame, the Pokemon that does tend to inflict status are things that Golem generally has a bad matchup against anyways. It would only be useful against Butterfree, and even then, you still would have Garbodor to take it down 1v1. Leftovers will be the more useful option since you'll be more durable for a while to check birds, Fire types, and Poison types much better.
I would agree that Arbok can decimate this team, but then again, you're right that it's rather uncommon, and you are at an even better grace that most Arbok still aren't Jolly natured so that they would outrun positive natured Ludicolo, so, I think you'll be fine for a while in that regard.
Must say, Zebraiken, great job. This is the most informative RMT and quite possibly the best Spikes stacking team that has ever graced BW2 NU thus far. You've gotten my Luvdisc for sure.
yup i talked a bit about lum berry up there. it's just a personal preference thing and i don't really think leftovers would help me as much as you might think, especially against smart opponents. and yeah no one uses arbok but i don't know why? it's really neat in this metagame imo
thank you for the compliments! :)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fat EmeraldGoblin
(Post 4455794)
on a kinda sorta related note.... malkamore's song... same love.. great song :)
on a more related noted... choice scarf cincinno is a pain to deal with for your team if you lose gundurr :(
haha, it might sound bad on paper but choice cinccino is actually the easiest for my team to handle. garbodor does a great job beating it (rocky helmet basically forces it to ko itself) and locking into any other move means that i can get something in for free against it. braviary also lives a scarf rock blast iirc. plus, i have plenty of priority to handle it too. thanks for the mention, though.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fat Honus
(Post 4455845)
"This-is-fuck-ing-awes-ome"
Seriously this is one of the best teams and albums [maybe second to the Proven Theory; I could call my next RMT that lol] and you've done a fantastic job with the presentation and descriptions. I love Balance/Bulky offense and you seem to have perfected the art in the NU Tier. Shit like that Garbodor set and SubBU Braviary [what an awesome way to circumvent Tangela] actually make me want to play in the tier again. Sorry I don't have much constructive criticism which sucks to say since I used to both play NU and be a ladybug, but this team is pretty close to being at its full potential already, and FLCL seems to have pretty much covered everything. Also I too can attest to Poison-types being annoying as fuck haha.
bro you are the best <3
thanks for the compliments!!
WhiteDMist
Nov 3rd, 2012 1:21:48 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fat Agent Dell
(Post 4455812)
Must say, Zebraiken, great job. This is the most informative RMT and quite possibly the best Spikes stacking team that has ever graced BW2 NU thus far. You've gotten my Luvdisc for sure.
Ditto what Agent Dell said. I've been thinking for half an hour and coming up blank about what I can really do to help this team. That's a sign of an extraordinary team, so kudos to you Zeb! :toast:
I've always been slightly partial to Lum Berry on Golem, but for this team I'll have to go with the crowd and say Leftovers is the best item. That little bit of recovery could spell the difference between having your Sturdy intact to take on Articuno/Poison types or dying after using a weak Sucker Punch. Regirock can work very well in this slot too, since you don't need an extra status move and thus can afford to use Ice Punch for Golurk. I'm loath to ask you to give up a priority move, even if it is a bit weak.
About the only interesting suggestion I can give you would be to change Skuntank for Jolly 4 Attacks Absol. You lose bulk, a Fighting neutrality and Aftermath. In exchange, you gain a lot more power, speed, and the ability to KO non-Colbur Berry Golurk. You still have Garbodor for Aftermath and T-Spikes absorption, so that part isn't a huge loss. Hell, you can even give up Pursuit/Night Slash for Psycho Cut if you really want to scare grounded Poison types more. You now also have the power to severely injure Articuno and Mantine.
Changes:
Golem: Leftovers>Lum Berry
Absol>Skuntank
Set
Absol @ Life Orb
Trait: Super Luck
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Sucker Punch
- Night Slash/Psycho Cut
- Pursuit
- Superpower
Whether or not you try my suggestions, I have to say that this is an excellent team that demonstrates the effectiveness of some of the brightest stars of the NU tier. Luvdisc for sure! :heart:
Pocket
Nov 8th, 2012 1:31:48 PM
I had the pleasure to see this team (at least a variant of it) in action throughout the months ;)
I think most of your team's "issues" comes from the lack of Speed and a heavy reliance on physical set-up offense without much wallbreaking power.
Scarf Rotom-F would be a nice touch, imo. It provides you with some much needed Speed, while providing you some more wallbreaking special offense to this team. Pokemon like Shell Smash Carracosta and Shell Smash Torkoal would be easily revenged by Rotom-F. Even more, Rotom-F resists Ice Beam + Hurricane, so I'd think it would be a nice check to Articuno as well. It can certainly check the likes of Zangoose, Cinccino, and Swellow for this team, too. It's also a decent check to Haunter, too, coming in on a predicted Disable and threatening to KO it, etc. This can probably go over Gurdurr.
When I used Skuntank, I realized that Pursuit / Sucker Punch wasn't doing enough to Musharna - it's just THAT bulky. Granted, losing Gurdurr means Musharna would be less of a problem, and you do have Spikes. Still, I'd like to suggest giving it BlackGlasses for the extra power in its Pursuit to remove that annoying psychic pest. It also powers up Sucker Punch's killing power, so it's worth the loss of Lefties, imo. I personally prefer Crunch for a more reliable way of removing Musharna & Haunter, but this is up to you.
As far as poison-types go, I think you can simply experiment with other less exploitable Ground-types. Eviolite SD Gabite, Eviolite Piloswine, and Golurk all comes to mind. They all have the bulk to set up Rocks reliably, while having enough oomph in their Attack to render Arbok / Muk useless. Weezing is a defensive threat, that hopefully the addition of Scarf Rotom-F would help handle better with STAB Blizzard / Tbolt and what-not.
Thanks for the time and effort you put into this RMT - it was an amazing read for an iconic NU team!
Zebraiken
Nov 14th, 2012 12:56:42 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fat WhiteDMist
(Post 4455959)
Ditto what Agent Dell said. I've been thinking for half an hour and coming up blank about what I can really do to help this team. That's a sign of an extraordinary team, so kudos to you Zeb! :toast:
I've always been slightly partial to Lum Berry on Golem, but for this team I'll have to go with the crowd and say Leftovers is the best item. That little bit of recovery could spell the difference between having your Sturdy intact to take on Articuno/Poison types or dying after using a weak Sucker Punch. Regirock can work very well in this slot too, since you don't need an extra status move and thus can afford to use Ice Punch for Golurk. I'm loath to ask you to give up a priority move, even if it is a bit weak.
About the only interesting suggestion I can give you would be to change Skuntank for Jolly 4 Attacks Absol. You lose bulk, a Fighting neutrality and Aftermath. In exchange, you gain a lot more power, speed, and the ability to KO non-Colbur Berry Golurk. You still have Garbodor for Aftermath and T-Spikes absorption, so that part isn't a huge loss. Hell, you can even give up Pursuit/Night Slash for Psycho Cut if you really want to scare grounded Poison types more. You now also have the power to severely injure Articuno and Mantine.
Changes:
Golem: Leftovers>Lum Berry
Absol>Skuntank
Set
Absol @ Life Orb
Trait: Super Luck
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Sucker Punch
- Night Slash/Psycho Cut
- Pursuit
- Superpower
Whether or not you try my suggestions, I have to say that this is an excellent team that demonstrates the effectiveness of some of the brightest stars of the NU tier. Luvdisc for sure! :heart:
thank you very much for the compliments, WDM! i actually really like the suggestion of jolly absol, although the frailty in comparison to skuntank is a bit offputting. when facing down things like musharna, i have to basically predict perfectly and even then absol cannot OHKO while mushy ohkoes in return with a +1 signal beam. absol does indeed help with everything you mentioned, but without the extra bulk / neutrality to bug it requires a lot more 'perfection' when handling musharna, which is the biggest reason that i use skuntank in the first place. still though, it's a really good suggestion so thank you for that! :)
also, while playing a few matches with this team on the ladder earlier i suddenly remembered the most important reason for lum berry golem: dynamicpunch golurk. x____x
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fat Pocket
(Post 4462761)
I had the pleasure to see this team (at least a variant of it) in action throughout the months ;)
I think most of your team's "issues" comes from the lack of Speed and a heavy reliance on physical set-up offense without much wallbreaking power.
Scarf Rotom-F would be a nice touch, imo. It provides you with some much needed Speed, while providing you some more wallbreaking special offense to this team. Pokemon like Shell Smash Carracosta and Shell Smash Torkoal would be easily revenged by Rotom-F. Even more, Rotom-F resists Ice Beam + Hurricane, so I'd think it would be a nice check to Articuno as well. It can certainly check the likes of Zangoose, Cinccino, and Swellow for this team, too. It's also a decent check to Haunter, too, coming in on a predicted Disable and threatening to KO it, etc. This can probably go over Gurdurr.
When I used Skuntank, I realized that Pursuit / Sucker Punch wasn't doing enough to Musharna - it's just THAT bulky. Granted, losing Gurdurr means Musharna would be less of a problem, and you do have Spikes. Still, I'd like to suggest giving it BlackGlasses for the extra power in its Pursuit to remove that annoying psychic pest. It also powers up Sucker Punch's killing power, so it's worth the loss of Lefties, imo. I personally prefer Crunch for a more reliable way of removing Musharna & Haunter, but this is up to you.
As far as poison-types go, I think you can simply experiment with other less exploitable Ground-types. Eviolite SD Gabite, Eviolite Piloswine, and Golurk all comes to mind. They all have the bulk to set up Rocks reliably, while having enough oomph in their Attack to render Arbok / Muk useless. Weezing is a defensive threat, that hopefully the addition of Scarf Rotom-F would help handle better with STAB Blizzard / Tbolt and what-not.
Thanks for the time and effort you put into this RMT - it was an amazing read for an iconic NU team!
thanks Pocket!! i like the suggestion of rotom-f, but the primary issue with it is that it simply cannot switch into everything that i would need it to, with the exception of opposing articuno. most notably, without gurdurr i just have next to nothing that can reliably switch into shell smash carracosta and i'd most likely get wrecked by it just picking off all of my team members one by one. plus, rotom-f can only switch into sr once when trying to revenge costa, since otherwise it will ohko with a +2 aqua jet. i know i pointed out that, if anything, i would replace gurdurr, but nothing really carries quite the bulk needed to switch into all of the threats that i need its position to check. rotom-f would be perfect if i could just outplay my opponents every turn, but that's not always the case, and once they get a step ahead with ss carracosta or by attacking while i expect them to set up, the game's probably over. again it's a good suggestion that covers a lot of weaknesses, but i don't think it quite fits into how i would play this team and requires me to sack something for a free switch-in or play perfectly to get it in just when i need to.
i've used crunch + blackglasses skuntank significantly before, but i really cannot stand the mono-dark coverage. losing poison jab just opens too much up for things like emboar and sawk to come in freely and force me to either predict around whether sawk will EQ or not (wee i love accidentally switching garbodor into a cb eq) or just sack garbodor outright to deal with emboar, and if garbodor isn't around i'm essentially screwed by those two mons. i will definitely agree that musharna is a pain in the ass, but not so much that it's worth dropping leftovers (and therefore making all damage to skuntank permanent) or poison jab to deal with it. musharna vs skuntank is a matchup that i feel the skuntank user always has control of and as long as they don't misplay horrendously, should win. i was going to give a kind of pseudo-guide to how i deal with musharna here, but as i was writing i kind of realized it's more of a player-by-player and game-to-game basis. point is, skuntank always has the capability to KO musharna or at least weaken it to the degree that braviary, golem, or ludicolo can come in later and finish it off.
your last suggestion was actually something i hadn't thought about much, and of the three i think that eviolite pilo would fit best in this team. losing out on sturdy would definitely suck but i think that the stuff piloswine brings to the table would definitely help out with the majority of my weaknesses. i like that one :)
thanks again for the rate and compliments, i really appreciate it!
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