Smogon Community - Research Group #9 - Marowak, Pinsir, Miltank, Regice

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Research Group #9 - Marowak, Pinsir, Miltank, Regice

Introduction:
NU is a tier where many Pokemon are usable, and there are a ton of different options. Research Group aids in helping explore the tier. Who knows, maybe in future tier changes one of these Pokemon can be incredibly useful, potentially being able to check the new threats well. Maybe one of these Pokemon may find uses in other tiers and is not just a simple throw-away Pokemon, unlike some unfortunate Pokemon in NU.

Some rules:

Be open-minded. Don't just say something is terrible and walk away; at least look into them and see what options they may be able to utilize.
Feel free to theorymon, but make it clear that you are theorymon'ing. At the end of the week, however, I want discussion to move towards how useful the Pokemon actually are in NU, and what sets are effective on them.
Just because an analysis has been done for a Pokemon doesn't mean there isn't more to explore; it's quite possible that something might have gone unnoticed or is missing.
Do not post in this thread complaining about the Pokemon I choose and/or suggesting ones we should do for future weeks. I want discussion to stay on topic about the four Pokemon we are "researching". You'll be able to vote on what Pokemon you want the next Research Group right before it starts (out of a ballot that is determined by me)

The four Pokemon that we will be looking into this Research Group are:

http://www.pokemonelite2000.com/wp-c...011/03/105.gif http://www.pokemonelite2000.com/wp-c...011/03/127.gif http://www.pokemonelite2000.com/wp-c...011/03/241.gif http://www.pokemonelite2000.com/wp-c...011/03/378.gif

How useful are these Pokemon in NU? What sets can they run effectively? What gives them trouble? What advantages do they have over other Pokemon? How well do they work in the metagame? If you have anything to say about any of these Pokemon, please post about them! It doesn't matter if you've used them or have just faced them in battle, anything is fine (but please, do try them). Just be sure to back up your posts with good competitive reasoning. Remember, discussion is not limited to this topic, you are encouraged to talk about these Pokemon in #neverused/#pokemon as well!

The Research Week Challenge:

Users will use any number of the research week mons on their team

Users will attempt to reach as high as possible on the ladder with the Pokemon. Breaking past the 2000 mark on the ladder with your registered alt will earn you a spot on the Hall of Fame: Gold Class. Crossing the 1850 mark will secure you a Silver Class spot while a 1700 rating will earn you a Bronze Class spot. Post a screen-shot of your peak in order to achieve this, and a pastebin of your team. Note: this is for Glicko2. You must also have a deviation of 70.

Users will be expected to post their experiences with the Pokemon they use, the teams they used, the problems they encountered while trying to make the said Pokemon work.

If a user does not participate in the discussion, he will be passed over.

In order to participate in the challenge, simply post here with a brand new alt. Post battle logs, experiences with your team on the ladder, and generally how a Pokemon has worked out for you: past or present.

Research Week Hall of Fame

Please include more substance in your posts than just "in" and what Pokemon you're using. What sets are you planning on using? What interests you about whatever Pokemon you're using? Remember: people who contribute a lot to Research Group will be listed on the hub page as an outstanding contributor for this Research Group.

For the hall of fame, is it ACRE or glicko2? Also is there a deviation requirement?

Regice is such a boss, ice moves are amazing right now - Rock Polish destroys teams!

ill be using regice

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Raseri (Post 4470308)

For the hall of fame, is it ACRE or glicko2? Also is there a deviation requirement?

Regice is such a boss, ice moves are amazing right now - Rock Polish destroys teams!

ill be using regice

Glicko2 and a deviation of 70 or lower.

Well, ill be doing this just for fun and maybie, who knows, i can reach a high ladder ranking. Using the four of them.
edit: forgot to put the alt:vileresearch

EDIT: At the moment i have a record of 22 wins and 6 loses with an ACRE of 1702 and glicko2 shows 1812 ± 78. The team, as said, has the 4 research pokes, but also has the amoongus core, that helps a lot on wish support and to cover most of the fighting types. When i have time ill post the team in depth But as a summarry i have mootility, a special tank regice, sub+3 attacks amrowak and scarf mold breaker pinsir (has caught off guard sturdy users a lot, also some levitate users with EQ.)

EDIT 2: So, the team its the following, ill just give a brief analisis of every member, because to be honest im not very good at analising things and enlgish not being my first lenguage doesnt helps so i apologise if there are a lot of gramar, spelling etcetc errors:

...

EDIT3: http://i.imgur.com/GenHF.png so yeah, got to bronze rank. I'll try to get to silver rank tho. (dont mind the ou matches, too lazy to change accounts lol)

Ill be using RPRegi and MoxiePinsir and meybe the others if I have enough time.Expect this post to be updated when Im done testing.

Alt: BANMAGIKARP

Marowak: With a personal item in Thick Club that doubles his attack, it definitely should be feared. It is indeed a bit slow, but pairing it with a Trick Room user or a paralysis supporter can compensate for that. It hits really hard off the bat, and can wreck anything that fails to make it faint. A personal immunity to Thunder Wave and a resistance to Stealth Rock is really helpful for him. Although Marowak needs a bit of support to help him do his thing, he is an absolute menace that would be Ubers material with Speed Boost or Huge Power. I wish this guy got Head Smash and Rock Polish; he would be absolutely terrifying.

The best set is the Substitute + 3 Attacks set, as Marowak has problems with durability. The set is simple: Set up Substitute on something seemingly harmless, like a Choice-locked Zebstrika, and let Marowak go on rampage. As for partners, fixing that speed is the best way to support it (Paralysis supporters like Natu/Lickilicky, etc.). There is no denying its horrible speed and a tad shaky defensive stats, but this thing's power is sick - watch this thing go on a rampage on paralyzed teams lacking Knock Off or Trick.

using marowak and regice

alt: nisemono

edit: i just hit 70 deviation with a 2000+ glicko2 ranking!!!

http://puu.sh/1r2GQ

here is the team i used

my team relied on marowak's ability to ko hazard users to support the rest of the team, especially regice. i had a really hard time if i couldn't ko the opponent's golem, gigalith, probopass, or other stealth rock users. everything is fairly bulky and hits hard, which isn't a surprise for those of you who are familiar with my play style. originally, i had tangela and musharna over skuntank and exeggutor, but that gave me a huge weakness to musharna if i couldn't win the cm war, so i put tangela and musharna into a blender and made exeggutor, which free'd up a team slot for skuntank. speaking of skuntank, it, in conjunction with kangaskhan, helps this team handle faster threats by bombarding them with priority. everything is quite slow, so this is extremely important. marowak is the bomb of the team, hitting everything extremely hard and 2hkoing pokemon like amoonguss, gurdurr, and piloswine, all of which are extremely bulky on the physical side. the two regis and exeggutor form the defensive core of the team. regice handles the water and grass types that give regirock trouble while regirock can switch into powerful fire attacks aimed at regice. both are weak to fighting, which is why exeggutor is needed. however, this makes me extremely weak to cb sawk and emboar if i predict incorrectly.

as for the research week pokemon themselves, they both exceeded my expectations in almost every aspect. i'll list the sets and give an in depth analysis of each:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat marowak

http://www.pokesho.com/img_icon/1/i_garagara.gif
zebraiken (Marowak) @ Thick Club
Trait: Rock Head
EVs: 92 HP / 252 Atk / 164 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Bonemerang
- Double-Edge
- Stone Edge
- Substitute

marowak is an extremely underrated physical attacker in nu. most people don't expect it to hit nearly as hard as it does. they also underestimate marowak's 60/110/80 defenses, which are more than enough to prevent its substitutes from being broken by resisted hits. this set takes full advantage of marowak's ability to scare out rock and poison types. no flying-type looking to absorb a bonemerang enjoys taking a stone edge or double edge to the face while marowak hides behind its rhydon doll. substitute also allows marowak to avoid status from slower pokemon such as weezing, amoonguss, and regirock. bonemerang is marowak's main attack and hits most pokemon extremely hard. in fact, alomomola is the only target neutral to it that is not 2hkoed in the entire tier! double edge is not far behind in terms of power, it is generally the better attack to use against frail pokemon due to its perfect accuracy and lack of recoil, thanks to rock head. stone edge rounds off the coverage by hitting the flying and bug types that resist bonemerang. it also gets a meaty hit on misdreavus, which is one of the best counters to marowak.

as far as counters go, anything with good bulk and a resistance to ground can do well against marowak. grass-types are the prime examples; exeggutor, torterra, ludicolo, serperior, and tangela all can take a bonemerang and ohko back with a grass attack, although the former four do not like taking double edge. other pokemon immune to ground, such as misdreavus and weezing, can also handle marowak decently. however, the latter needs flamethrower to be able to break marowak's substitutes and avoid being 3hkoed by double edge. if marowak is not under a substitute, it will fold to any decently powered water, grass, ice, or special attack in general. it is also extremely easy to wear down due to lack of recovery and substitute. pokemon that can pass wish to it are a huge help; alomomola is a prime candidate since it can absorb any waterfalls aimed at marowak while luring out electric attacks for marowak to switch into. a heal bell user such as musharna is also appreciated since marowak absolutely hates any form of status. swellow is a much more offensive partner that can lure in rocks, u-turning to marowak which can then destroy them.

marowak is a high risk, high reward pokemon that is devastating when played right. in some matches, you might find it doing nothing, such as against weather teams, but it will almost always threaten the opponent's team with it's huge attack stat.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat regice

http://www.pokesho.com/img_icon/3/i_rejiaisu.gif
raseri (Regice) @ Leftovers
Trait: Clear Body
EVs: 240 HP / 252 SAtk / 16 Spd
Modest Nature
- Ice Beam
- Thunderbolt
- Rest
- Sleep Talk

regice has been growing in popularity even before it was introduced in this research week. this is no surprise since it can comfortably take attacks from special attackers such as ludicolo, samurott, exeggutor, and haunter while striking back hard with the appropriate attack. the rest talk set can switch into amoonguss with no fear, absorbing spore and taking nearly no damage from giga drian or sludge bomb. it also handles alomomola decently since it shuts down the big fish's main form of damage and 2hkos with thunderbolt. since regice' special bulk is already so great, max special attack was used to put more "ommph" into its attacks. what separates regice from other special walls like lickilicky and mantine is its ability to constantly threaten the opposing team with a base 100 special attack stat and nearly perfect coverage.

regice' biggest flaw is its stealth rock weakness which allows it to be 2hkoed by pokemon such as gorebyss. the large list of moves that it is weak to does not help this cause one bit. if the opponent constantly applies pressure and forces regice out by double switching before it can rest, then it can end up doing nothing in a match. sleep talk can also be unreliable at times, and might let you down against something that resists one of its moves. a rapid spinner or something that can prevent hazards such as marowak, rampardos, cinccino, or torkoal are all very valuable teammates. like marowak, regice appreciates heal bell and wish support to increase its longevity. what even more important is a teammate that can cover its weaknesses to attacks such as Flare Blitz, Stone Edge, and Close Combat. once again, alomomola is one the best pokemon for this role.

in short, regice either walls something to death or is soundly defeated. not switching it too recklessly into hazards is the key. it is extremely easy to fit into defensive cores and stall teams due to its ability to wall nearly every special attacker in the game with the correct support.

I'm actually building a new team with Pinsir on it so this RP happened at a good time for me.

I'll be using Moxie Pinsir with X-Scissor/Close Combat/Stone Edge/EQ. Pinsir is a dangerous offensive threat to the metagame and I'm surprised he's not used more often. Great all-around coverage moves backed by a great Attack stat and a great ability in Moxie(Mold Breaker is still good; can hit Elektross with a SE EQ). He also packs a good defensive stat. Adding to his good defensive stat he has key resistances to common Ground and Fighting type attacks.

However, Pinsir does have a SR rock weakness, an average SpD stat and can be worn down easily(especially if LO is equipped). But I do think the pros outweigh the cons and I look forward to using Pinsir.

Alt: Spin Dr.

K, I'm joining. I'll be using Moxie LO Pinsir, possibly paired with Speed Boost Ninjask. If I'm able to pass on a Sub + at least one Speed Boost to Pinsir, it may as well be a GG for the opponent.

EDIT: Turns out my strategy was crap, as LO kills Pinsir too fast. I decided to switch Pinsir for Marowak.

Alt: Crowbat. Previous Alt that I will always use: Normalize

I've had experience with life orb rock polish Regice with focus blast, thunderbolt and ice beam, which is a surprise factor that can finish off team, especially if stealth rocks are removed. I also have used moxie sub pinsir, which is harder to use but easier to sweep with. That being said, I guess I will try Marowak and Miltank under Shuckleking14.

Ok, so I am only 17 battles in, but I have a 14-3 record after starting 5-3 (glicko2 deviation still too high). So my team consists of Marowak, Miltank, Serperior, Ninjask, Rotom-S and Samurott. The main objective of this team is to obviously get speed boosts, sword dances and/or substitutes to marowak to completely destroy teams. Here is the ideal three pokemon turn order that is the easiest way for this team's success.

...

Good job on the peak, FLCL. All of your points on Marowak and Regice were very accurate. I especially agreed with what you said regarding hazards vs Regice: Regice is overall a solid Pokemon, but hazards really cut its life short and make it much harder to beat the threats it is supposed to beat.

I have already used Marowak / Regice a lot, so I am going to be testing Pinsir / Miltank this Research Group. Over the past few days I have accumulated ~20 battles with Pinsir so I will talk about it for now.

Now, before I say anything else, let me tell you that whenever I used Pinsir in the past, I was always disappointed by it. Reason for that? Probably because I looked at its performance in a vacuum. I did not give Pinsir that much of a chance, and threw it away after a few battles. Now that I have given Pinsir more of a chance, it has exceeded my expectations of it. It is actually a pretty good Pokemon.

During my playtesting, I used:

http://sprites.pokecheck.org/i/127.gif http://veekun.com/dex/media/items/life-orb.png http://sprites.pokecheck.org/b/127.gif
Pinsir @ Life Orb
Trait: Moxie
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SpA)
- Swords Dance
- X-scissor
- Close Combat
- Stone Edge

Pretty good coverage overall, but it misses out on Golurk and does underwhelming damage to most Poison-types. Anyways, that coverage comes in handy in a lot of situations. When Pinsir gets going, it is hard to stop. If it manages to set up a Swords Dance, which is not that hard to set up considering Pinsir's physical bulk is above average, and you have a slow team, you are in a lot of trouble. I remember smashing FLCL's Research Group team because he did not have anything to stop Pinsir. Regirock got smashed by a +2 Close Combat. Moxie was not as useful as I thought it would be. It was not useful because most of the time I either switched right out after I killed something or Pinsir did not need the Moxie boost to sweep the team. Regardless, overall, Moxie would still have been more useful than any of its other abilities in my playtesting. I think I am about done with using Pinsir; I have established in my mind that it is a pretty good Pokemon that I would use again. Maybe I will test some other options on it like Substitute or Stealth Rock.

Here is the team I used:

Alomomola weak

Now time to use that fat cow.

60 Shuckleking14 1767 79.3 1852 ± 60
Don't know have to copy directly onto here. Not my best team, but it was so much fun to use.