Chronicles in Sun (1k RMT)
Well it has been quite a while since I've posted an RMT, the usual rant, whatever. Today I've got a sun team for you. Pretty standard, maybe not perfect, but it performs well whenever I use it. It's offensive like every sun team and all that and has the super mega powerful Victini. This team started as a team with Lilligant but for it to actually perform well I sadly have to go without it. Oh, and this is also my 1k! There's some stuff in here that'll have to do with that. Okay, here we go.
I started the team and my thought process was basically must use Lilligant must use Lilligant. I was testing it for an analysis and I needed to test it. This one was a Quiver Dance sweeper, and I used offensive Sunny Day Ninetales because duh I needed sun and for some reason didn't use defensive.
I wanted a second Chlorophyll sweeper, so I put Venusaur on the team. Just your standard Growth set. I also wanted a Fire-type sweeper, so I put the manly CB Victini on the team. I used Dugtrio to take out their counters.
I wanted hazards, so I threw a Deoxys-D on the team.
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Well, that's the 5 minute team. I tried, but it was total shit. I tried Healing Wish Lilligant, team still sucked. I made a core of Bronzong / LO Latias. Let me tell you, non-max Speed Timid Latias is terrble. It was so infuriating, getting outsped by of all things Garchomp and losing games because of it. I did make it max Speed so I wouldn't facepalm every battle. Deoxys-D got kicked out because I didn't need Spikes and it was so freaking annoying to have a useless mon after the first few turns. Dugtrio because 99% it got no use. Bronzong is so underrated btw, seriously, more people should use it.
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This version of the team was /okay/, I'd use it again. I do have a version of this team I use with Forretress > Bronzong, and it's good. Healing Wish support is awesome. However, it's not quite as successful as the next iteration of this team. Reluctantly, I scrapped Lilligant. I needed a spinner / Magic Bouncer so badly, hazards were horrible and this certainly taught me a lesson to not use a hazard-weak team without some method of combating them. I tried Xatu but it was really bad for some reason. I put on Forretress and it did well. From there, I had an issue where Bronzong was no longer pulling its weight. It got removed, and I put Landorus-T in its place to have a good SR setter, Fighting resist, Ground immune, Volt Switch absorber, and goodish Genesect switch-in when I didn't want to bring in Ninetales. Also, I nailed it through my thick skull that offensive Ninetales wasn't dojng me any favors, so I made it defensive. Hooray team ready to go fun ensues.
At a Glance
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The Weather Inducer
this and all pokemon art from arkeis
Ninetales @ Leftovers
EVs: 252 HP / 120 Def / 136 Spe
Victini @ Choice Band
Ability: Victory Star
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adios, entry hazards, I hardly knew ye
Forretress @ Leftovers
EVs: 252 HP / 176 Def / 80 SDef
The Chlorophyll Sweeper
Venusaur @ Life Orb
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
http://cdn.bulbagarden.net/upload/2/26/FireIC_Big.pngHidden Power Fire
Landorus-T @ Leftovers
EVs: 200 HP / 64 Atk / 244 SpD
Latias @ Life Orb
EVs: 128 HP / 128 SAtk / 252 Spd
http://cdn.bulbagarden.net/upload/2/26/FireIC_Big.pngHidden Power Fire
Well, that's the team. Not much else to say really. In hide tags is other stuff not related to the team whatsoever if you're interested.
/me is happy about being able to post again
Hey ok team I would really like to suggest some EV spread fixings as your as really basic and should be customized.
Al heatrans are going fuck your whole team up would use LO infernape over victini or earthquake venusaur. Using mixed latios could also help you out.
Venusaur (F) @ Life Orb
EVs: 156 Atk / 172 SAtk / 180 Spd
IVs: 30 Spd
- Giga Drain
- Hidden Power [Ice]
That would be mixed venusaur.
Your team does not really utilize latias' bulk well and I would use LO latios.
Latios (M) @ Life Orb
EVs: 24 Atk / 244 Spd / 240 SAtk
- Draco Meteor
- Hidden Power [Fire]
Attack EVs always KO SpD heatran after rocks. Speed to outspeed terrakion, hidden power fire lowers speed anyways.
Infernape @ Life Orb
EVs: 84 Atk / 252 Spd / 172 SAtk
- Fire Blast
- Close Combat
- Hidden Power [Ice]
I would definitely use 2 of those 3 to easily muscle past heatran.
Switch your SpD EVs on landorus-t to defense. I am assuming that was a typo.
Hi Asterat, thanks for the rate:
I have been testing mixed Venusaur lately and it's great. I'll edit it in I guess. Latias is needed because Latios just isn't bulky enough to take a ton of resisted hits. Realize, I use Latias and sometimes have it taking Ice Beams. Latios can't do that. Yeah, typo on Landorus-T, oops...
There are a few changes to make to this team.
Firstly, I do agree with Asterat's suggestion of mixed venusaur. It is the set I use every time a build a sun team with venusaur, and it works.
Another thing is that your team is quite weak to dragons. Your only steel type cannot tank draco meteors at all, and most of those dragons carry a fire move anyway. The only suggestion I can give that might fix this would be mamoswine. Mamoswine packs a strong priority ice shard as well as acceptable bulk. It also carries one of the strongest earthquakes in the game. I really don't know what pokemon to replace it with; the best I can do is give you the set. I really am in no position to deem which pokemon to replace, as they have such good synergy that only you can know the weakest link.
Here is the set.
Mamoswine @Life Orb
EVs: 252 Atk, 252 Speed | Adamant | Thick Fat
Well, ice shard is great for killing the therians and dragons. Earthquake hits really hard. Icicle spear is secondary STAB for grass types. Superpower gets coverage on ferrothorn and other nasty stuff that walls mamoswine. Thick Fat removes its weakness to fire, although the moves are still stronger. It also gives it a nice resist to boltbeam, which is mostly fluff because that combination isn't seen much, but it is still very convenient.
Hope this helps!
Hey cool team dude, congrats on 1,000 posts!
My first suggestion is an easy one, change Venusaur's nature to Timid. While a + Spe nature on a chlorophyll Pokemon at first seems like a waste, I'll tell you why its almost a necessity. Choice Scarf 110s outspeed Modest Venusaur, even in the Sun; Choice Scarf Latios is actually gained a lot more usage and will stop your sweeper in its place. Timid is an easy fix to this and at +2 Venusaur easily OHKOs with Sludge Bomb.
My second suggestion is to change up your Ninetales spread. At the moment Calm Mind Latias can take advantage on many of your Pokemon to set up and you don't really have any Pokemon who want to take it on, because of this I recommend changing your Ninetales to a more Specially Defensive Spread. The set I suggest is:
One of Ninetales only niches, besides Drought of course :), is as a surprisely bulky special defensive phazer. Ninetales doesn't really mind CM Latias and will be able to roar it out for most of the game, until you're in a better situation to deal with it. This set allows Ninetales to take the Dragon Pulses or HP Fires Latias will throw, while also being able to switch into Bulky Politoeds Scalds. You keep Sunny Day and Will-O-Wisp to deter other Weather starters as well as having more overall utility.
An interesting little change I've thought about is replacing Toxic on Forretress for Earthquake. Your team really doesn't like Heatran. Landorus-T helps you in some regard, but an Offensive Heatran will have no problems tearing through it and Landorus-T can't even switch in. On the other hand your best switch-in, Latias, can't really dent Heatran too much if in the Sun as Surf is nerfed. Heatran loves switching in on Forretress, usually its about as free a switch as you'll find. But thats where the gimmickiness comes in, smacking a Heatran with Earthquake on the switch in will do a lot for removing it completely for your team. Granted this is definitely a gimmick, and while they can help, they can't be relied on completely.
I'm not terribly sure what the merits are of Specially Defensive Landorus-T and would love to hear your thoughts on them. I want to recommend something else for that slot that better deals with Heatran but I want to know more about the Pokemon before slating to replace it.
King of Blades, I think I'm going to not use Mamoswine. There isn't really a "weakest link". Draco Meteors I do have to play around, but Mamoswine doesn't help in taking them and Forretress cannot be replaced because I need a spinner. Thanks for the rate though.
Joeyboy, I like the look of that Ninetales set, I think I'll try it out. I've contemplated Earthquake but never really tested it, so I'll make that change. Timid on Venusaur is definitely worth consideration. I mainly use Modest because I tend to, very often, bring in Venusaur unboosted. However, if I tried to get boosts, I'm sure I could. Thanks for the rate!
I meant to tell you in the Ninetales thread, but didn't get around to it: your speed EVs are surplus. You outrun Jolly Mamoswine, but you have a bit of extra speed you aren't using for anything. The EV spread I suggested was a mirror of the set you were using as I posted (I think?), but with the 120 EVs from Sp. Def placed into Defense instead. If you're only trying to outrun Jolly Mamo, you should be using 252 HP/160 Def/92 Speed, which hits 286 speed to Mamo's 284.
oops, thanks sjcrew, I'll make sure to fix that in the Ninetales thread too.
Hi man, nice team!
I can't do a full rate cuz on my phone atm. The team looks good as is so heres a few minor nit picks. First of all the team doesn't like lo latis too much but I guess you can play around that, but have you tried special def forre alongside physically defensive lanT? I would also put Hp ice over toxic on forre seeing as sub tox gliscor is a bitch for the team, or any sub gliscor/lando. For jelli u can just vswitch to Vic and kill something in sun so I don't think that's too big of a problem. Offensive heatran in sun however, is a huge threat. The standard balloon set is devastating for the team to face, as only 2 pokes can touch it ( land is outsped) I don't play sun often so I don't know exactly how sub nails operates ( status the other weather on switch works? Dodging pursuit is nice) but I would suggest Hp ground on nails. Lastly your Latinas can only speed tie with Hp fire latis, which I doubt ur ognna be willing to guess or bank on, so I would distribute 8 speed Eva to Hp or sp att. You still outsped base 108s. I dunno what that puts the Hp at but make it hit xx9 for lo number. One huge threat to this team is a common sand combo ttar + lando. The combo is extremely deadly to your team and is hard to beat. Special def forre with Hp ice remedie the situation somewhat, seeing as lando sets up on 3/6 of ur team. For venusaur u can try max sp att, timid and enough speed to hit 264, then put the rest into Hp to try and tank a timid ep (tho most run modest). This way u hit a bit less hard but outsped scarf latis and horses and can set up easier due to bulk. Rp land is a threat for every sun team but I'm sure with smart switching you can outplay that threat.
Good luck and grats on 1k!
Hey there, pokemon0087!
I've ran Sun teams for a while now, especially variants without Dugtrio like this, and I really know the common weaknesses and ways to patch them, so hopefully I can help you out! First of all, any kind of Heatran is very threatening. Latias' Surf in sun isn't going to be doing much damage, and it only really fears a Brick Break from Victini which is only doing about ~60% to a Specially Defensive Varient. Another major threat is Volcarona. Volcarona can easily set up on Ninetales, Venusaur, Latias, and Forretress and proceed to basically sweep your team. One last weakness I see is mainly to Special Dragons. Special Dragons like Hydreigon, Lati@s, etc. basically get a free kill everytime they switch in. From taking a look at the team, Latias seems the most replaceable. Latias checks opposing Chlorophyll sweepers and Keldeo; the former is checked by what I'm going to recommend, and the latter is fucked by Venusaur. With all of this in mind, I recommend a Choice Band Snorlax instead of Latias. With a Choice Band, Snorlax acts as a fantastic Pursuit Trapper for special dragons, a great Heatran Counter, a great Venusaur check, and it really seems to fit your team well. The EV's and set found at the bottom allow you to live a Banded Tyranitar's Stone Edge and to have maximum attack and special defensive investment to tank things like Specs Latios' Draco Meteors. With the change of Latias ---> Snorlax, you lose a check to one very threatening Pokemon: Landorus. An unconventional way to change this is to add an Air Balloon Volcarona instead of Victini. I would say Balloon Victini, but I've tested it before and it's worse than Volcarona. Without a power boosting item, Victini is rather mediocre. Volcarona, however, is a fantastic user of Air Balloon. With the balloon intact it can set up on Specially Defensive Hippowdon lacking Whirlwind as well as check Special Landorus and Mamoswine, making it an ideal choice for your team. I really advocate max special attack and max speed with a Timid nature and Fire Blast. Fire Blast nets several KO's Fiery Dance doesn't like weakened Gyarados. The last slot could be Hidden Power Ground to OHKO Heatran.
One of the few nitpicks I have for the team would be using Spikes > Toxic Spikes and Gyro Ball > Toxic on Forretress. Toxic Spikes are really mediocre in the current metagame as they take too much time to set up for the medicore reward they give. Spikes can't be absorbed by common Poison-typed Pokemon like opposing Tentacruel and Venusaur, and they are definitely more effective. Gyro Ball gives you a secondary check to Terrakion and Mamoswine which Landorus-T and Volcarona can't check forever, and I always like having an attacking move on Forretress. One last nitpick would be Ninetales' EV spread: Tornadus-T seems really threatening and Substitute eases Dugtrio switch-in predictions (what your current EV spread does), so try a Specially Defensive spread to help tank Hurricanes better. Here are the sets and changes I recommend below:
Snorlax @ Choice Band | Thick Fat
Adamant | 40 HP / 252 Atk / 40 Def / 176 SDef
Body Slam / Pursuit / Fire Punch / Superpower
Volcarona @ Air Balloon | Flame Body
Timid | 252 SAtk / 4 Def / 252 Spd | 30 SpA / 30 SDef
Quiver Dance / Fire Blast / Hidden Power / Bug Buzz
Edit: Landorus-T needs to be Defensive to check Dragons, is that a typo?
No, guys, stop suggesting changing the Ninetales spread for stuff she isn't supposed to counter. Ninetales is supposed to get free switches in on Bullet Punches, Iron Heads, Power Whips, etc...then switch in on stuff like Sp. Def Tyranitar after she burns it. How does 120 Sp. Def EVs help her take Hurricanes? It's always a 2HKO if it even hits. All she's supposed to do is take one in a clutch situation.
Ninetales has plenty of special defense with just 252 HP and this is before considering that she doesn't check any special attacker whatsoever. With the Defense EVs, you can do crazy shit like switch into CB Scizor's Superpower, switch out, and survive a Bullet Punch on the revenge. The Sp. Def set takes 4-5% more damage from Bullet Punch, which is pretty unacceptable.
Btw, if you're still hurting for Heatran checks, just use a support Garchomp. It leaves you slightly more vulnerable to Terrakion, but Latias, Venusaur, and Victini can take advantage of a CC lock (especially Victini, since he usually gets a kill every time he comes out). If you roll with Garchomp, you'll end up relying on prediction and pivoting to beat Terrakion, but it's better than being walled by Heatran all day!
A strong team overall, this remains a bit ordinary when your team is a classic sun but it includes originals touches such as Forre3, Landorus! But I find that you overlook a little in the moves, you do what against Dragonite once Landorus-T dead? What can probably happen very easily, because even with the special ability to Intimidate you seem to forget that there're 2HKO by Nite contempt without boost, you can even not toxic and leave as he has fire punch + Lum berry, so you'll be forced to kill is very disadvantageous for you and the rest of the team putting a big pressure. I you Council therefore to Victreebel on Venusaure for Revenge Kill Nite/Haxorus/Salamence while touching Pokemon Bugg-Grass-Steel with Weather Ball (Fire):
Then I also noticed that Forr3 had no Hidden power Ice, it is a little annoying thing for you, Gliscor/Landorus/Dug one Volt switch, leaves toxic it can serve you against Jellicents (Anti-spinn) which can be very bad for a Sun. But you have none against Terrakion Sub salar Berry, I'm not going to lie, many teams are weak to Kion but they have generally a pillars preventing it from properly place, here it can come on anyone except Venusaure which may be address by Bliss-Tran-Chans very often in teams to switches, specifying as Forretress does Gyroball so I you Council Donphan on Landorus to put Scizor however the worries is to choose between the Sword Dancer or bander, as they are very effective, but I would advise you to hard it because you are very weak to reuniclus CM saw that Tias he fact that 40% + 1 and a pokemon and Victini quite weak in the Sr's and is no long in a game especially in this form as well as Gengar Sub(disable or 3attaks) :
PS: For Forretress you put the attack with an image of types poison (spikes).
Just thought I should point out that Victory Star only works in Double and Triple Battles, not Singles.
85% Accuracy is still fairly decent though.
252SpAtk Choice Specs Tornadus Therian (Neutral) Hurricane vs 252HP/0SpDef Flash Fire Ninetales (Neutral): 74% - 88% (262 - 309 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.
An almost guaranteed KO after Stealth Rock compared to a good chance to live is a pretty good suggestion in my opinion. Especially since he lacks a good counter and you still tank Bullet Punches, a Superpower, etc. decently. No need to be so hostile about it, friend.
Edit: I was right in the sense Victini helps itself, but you were right in the sense that Victini doesn't help its teammates! Haha, I misinterpreted your post.
Rain Dance Tornadus-T isn't common, especially on Specs Tornadus-T where the calcs suggest a KO, and I would want to not live a Specs Hurricane to not lose the weather war. I don't get your point, please stop this pointless argument.
Also, misleading information; Ninetales lives a Specs Hurricane at full HP no matter what: 74.9% - 88.3% You can take a Specs Hurricane after Rocks with 120 So Def EVs, true (66.3% - 78.3%), but you could just as well die and lose your Ninetales for no reason.
Speaking of Tornadus-T, I don't know how you're beating him at all with this team. :/ The thing I can really think of is changing Forry back to Bronzong and turning Latias into Espeon to prevent rocks. Assuming you switch Lando into Garchomp, you shouldn't be any more vulnerable to Heatran than you were before.
EDIT: Missing the main point again. I'm saying don't change your spread just to switch into Hurricane after rocks when it's still risky and definitely don't switch into Hurricane at all if you can avoid it. Those 120 EVs cover a contingency that should not be happening over lowering the net damage Ninetales takes from Pokemon she commonly switches into/checks. This is explained in the Ninetales revamp thread.
You're assuming you can't spin before the second switch in after tanking the hurricane, but in another scenario Rocks won't be up the first time, presumably spun away? Not the greatest arguments, which I asked you to stop previously..
Possibly living a hurricane is definitely helpful in several game states, so it's a worthwhile change.
Pretty cool sun team.Like previously stated special dragons such as Lati@s is a major threat.It outspeeds 5 out of 6 of your pokemon in sun and all of them outside sun and easily land several kills.They can even pull of a sweep with Specs Dragon Pulse.Heatran also causes a lot of trouble.
I don't have much experience with Sun teams so I can't really give you a solution for sure but I think using Sawsbuck as your chloro sweeper will help a lot against Special Dragons and Heatran,two of this team's biggest threats.Thanks to it's 95 base speed you can afford to run adamant so you'll be able to outrun and smack the Lati twins hard with LO STAB Frustation/Double Edge in sun and destroy heatran with EQ(Nature Power) or Jump kick(less reliable since heatran carries protect).You don't really lose out much that Venusaur had so i think it's worth to consider.
bumping; I'm going to edit Princess Bri's changes into the OP shortly, I'd like to see if anything's wrong after them.
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