The Art of Sun Heavy Offense
The Art of Sun Heavy Offense
Hi there! Neliel is back with an another rtm!
This time i will present you a sun team that wasnt even meant to be a sun team, but it turned out this way. I havent ladder much with it but its solid overall, i've never found any evident weakness but maybe im wrong, thats why im posting it :3
Team building process:
Ninetales (F) @ Air Balloon
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SDef / 8 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Sunny day
This set was difficult to do because Ninetales is not really good as an offensive mon, it has Nasty plot but not a great coverage and anyway is not even here to sweep but just to support my team. I didnt want to be a complete setup fodder of everything, so i put Roar just to phaze things out that thinks they can setup on me, say Sd garchomp or Ddnite. Will-o-wisp is nice to burn some shit that switch on me like Politoed or Tyranitar, as well as offensive pokemon like Kyurem-b. Flametrhower is my main stab and hidden power fighting is a filler move to hit Tyranitar and break the air baloon on Heatran, thats it really, this move have no other purpose and im thinking to change it but honestly it does not even have others options so who cares. The spread is to outspeed Mamoswine, Lando-t, and Kyurem-b. In this way i can burn them / ko them. Max hp is to take some hit and the rest is into special atk to do something with flametrower. Air baloon is here just to troll against Sheer force Landorus, Hippowdown, Mamoswine and even Dugtrio.
Hidden power fighting seriously do nothing so i change it to sunny day to deal with rain better. i also gived more special defense, and the speed to outspeed Adamant Mamoswine.
Kabutops (F) @ Focus Sash
Trait: Swift Swim
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd
- Stealth Rock
- Rapid Spin
Credit to "the silent storm" for this set. This is an another supporting mon that can turn into a deadly sweeper in the right situation. Stealth rock is because i dont have other slot, Rapid spin its not even that necessary honestly, its a nice support for Ninetales and Dragonite but its not really necessary to win, since i dont rely on winning the weather war with ninetales so i dont care if it dies or not. Waterfall is a strong stab that under rain does a shitload of damage, while stone edge is the second stab to do some random damage under sun. Under rain this thing is really annoying to face, so many time i spammed and revenge killed stuff with this thing. You are maybe thinking why the hell i have Focus sash: the point is that kabutops does not really have a single safe switch-in into everything, so if i need to setup stealth rock early for example, i just send it out at turn 1 to have the sr, or for example i send it out into the stealth rocker of my opponent to force it to switch and then spin. Honestly it shouldnt have any other item in my opinion, but whatever. Im thinking about Superpower somewhere to hit Ferrothorn and Heatran but i dont know..
Superpower proved to be more usefull against Heatran and ferrothorn, so i changed it.
Venusaur (F) @ Life Orb
EVs: 80 Atk / 252 SAtk / 176 Spd
Naive Nature (+Spd, -SDef)
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Giga Drain
Venusaur its suchs a great sweeper under sun, i cant tell you many time i got an easy sweep with this pokemon, however, the set is pretty much standard.
The evs are to outspeed Scarf Latios under sun, i put the rest of the speed to power up the attack so that i can do more damage with Earthquake. Earthquake is here because i dont have any slot for Dugtrio and i didnt obviously want to be walled by Heatran. I prefered hidden power ice since with earthquake it gets pretty much perfect coverage, also i didnt want to be setup fodder of the dragons, and steel types like Ferrothorn are not exactly a problem for this team so its fine. Giga drain is the main stab to get a recovery and life orb to do more damage.
Scizor (M) @ Life Orb
EVs: 80 HP / 252 Atk / 176 Spd
- Swords Dance
- Bullet Punch
- Bug bite
Scizor is a nice revenge killer to a lot of weakened things as well as a deadly sweeper, threatening both offensive and defensive teams at the same time. It has a lot of chance to setup a Sword dance and then wreack things. I prefer Quick attack so hit Fire-Water-Eletric types stronger, also i've never liked Bug bite because scizor is slow and anyway Reuniclus and Slowbro are not going to switch-in on me. Superpower let me do a shitload of damage on Skarmory as well as hitting other steel types. The spread is to maximize the attack and to be sure that i can outspeed Calm Rotom-w.
Changed quick attack for Bug bite, to hit Slowbro and Reuniclus.
Dragonite (M) @ Lum Berry
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
- Dragon Dance
- Fire Punch
An another deadly sweeper, just setup a Dragon dance with multiscale and spam Outrage. Your opponent has a steel? Do Fire punch! A +1 Fire punch under sun does a lot even to skarmory and its like a ko to all the other steel types. Extremespeed comes in handy to kill weakened stuff that tries to revenge kill me, like Scarf politoed or Scarf Keldeo. Its really good also to setup against other sun team as well as water attacks like Scald. Sometimes i even lead with it and start destroying things thanks to Multiscale.
Lucario (M) @ Life Orb
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Swords Dance
- Close Combat
- Bullet Punch
The last sweeper, we all know what lucario can do after a sword dance. A lot of offensive things are koed by an extremespeed with stealth rock damage, and the things that can take an extreme speed are only rock and ghost types, but bullet punch does a nice job koing terrakion, gengar and Scarf tar. there are not so many things that can wall me, Gliscor and jellicent are the closest thing to a counter of lucario but they are both handled well by the rest of my team so its not really a big issue. Close combat is strong as hell, it koes sp def rachi as well as Skarmory after stealth rock damage and its also usefull here since it can outspeed and ko offensive variants of Heatran, which can be problematic otherwhise.
http://pldh.net/media/pokemon/gen5/b..._front/448.gif http://pldh.net/media/pokemon/gen5/b..._front/149.gif http://pldh.net/media/pokemon/gen5/b..._front/212.gif http://pldh.net/media/pokemon/gen5/b..._front/003.gifhttp://pldh.net/media/pokemon/gen5/b..._front/038.gif http://pldh.net/media/pokemon/gen5/b..._front/141.gif
This team is really fun to use and it does not have many weaknesses, Terrakion is somewhat problematic if it has stealth rock but i have 2 bullet punchers and Venazzzor so it cant 6-0 me. I hope you liked this team and feel free to steal / rate it !
Cool team you have their.I had used Dragonite+Scizor+Lucario a lot in BW1 and it kicks ass.This team is really unique,with a nice and unexpected Kabutops set,so props for that.
Now on to the rate,I find your Scizor set quite underwhelming.Quick attack is something that dislike about this set.Roost would be a better fit here imo,sure the ability to hit water types is great and all but Roost has more utility.Quick attack isn't strong enough to get you KOs without a good amount of prior weakening.You already have a lot of priority moves.Personally,I find a standard bulky SD Scizor along with Roost to be a better choice instead as a offensive pivot but it's mainly about preference,I guess.I also suggest changing waterfall to earthquake on Kabutops(or superpower if you dont mind stat drops) as it has better coverage with Stone Edge and doesn't get nerfed by sun.
I don't think this team has many weakness's other than DragMag teams with mamoswine and ScarfDitto.But the former can be played around and the later is an issue for all HO teams so there isn't any specific change I have in mind.Props for such a unique team and good luck(btw,if you want to try out offensive ninetails,try specs variant,it's Overheat in sun is stronger than Latios's DM xD)
I'm not good with EV spreads tbh. 252 HP/40 atk/216 spDef is the standard spread for bulky sd set. You can use Lum berry as the item and adamant as the nature.Although you miss out some OHKOs you would get with your current set at +2.So i would rather run a simple 252 hp/252 atk.
Hello! Cool team, I like a lot the use of Kabutops. At first, I don't like a lot Roar on Ninetales, you have five priority moves and one Focus Sash user, I think that the setuppers aren't a problem for this team so I suggest you to use Sunny Day in place of Roar to punish effectively the switch-in of Politoed. Then, I'd use Superpower in place of Stone Edge on Kabutops, Stone Edge isn't a good move here, in my opinion and with Superpower you can hit hard Heatran (that can be a little problem for you team) and Ferrothorn (that believes to stop Kabutops). Finally, I'd use Bug Bite in place of Quick Attack on Scizor, I think it's useful against stall team here (Slowbro can stop 5/6 of your team, for example) and it's, in general, better than Quick Attack. Also, you have already four priority moves. Good luck, hope I helped.
Ill try Sunny day on Ninetales since Politoed is getting somehow annoying, but ill change it probably for hidden power fighting, as well as my spread that at this point is better with more special defense. Stone edge is here just to have an another stab if sun is up, but ill try superpower. Im not really sure that bug bite works that much, i know that slowbro can wall me but its not used that much, but i understand what you mean. I'll give it a shot. Thanks again
Hi nel, this is a very cool team!
I really like the use of priority in this team!
The first thing I'd suggest is a particular set of Ninetales: invest into SpDef with 96 evs in speed to outspeed adamant Mamoswine and to get more support aganist toed with the addition of pain split as pseudo recovery to increase the staying power of your weather changer.
Now I have noticed a big weakness to Jellicent: Scizor, Lucario, Kabutops and also Ninetales are completely walled from the jellyfish also will block your spinning, so I suggest you to give Crunch > Bullet Punch to Lucario, so you can get out that annoying Pokemon and also hit even Slowbro.
I know that Kabutops is an important point for your team, but I noticed a little weakness to the Drag mag so I thought I'd tell you to put Max Atk Donphan with Ice Shard to help this potential problem.
About Scizor, for the SDOrb set i always give this Evs spread for outspeed Modest Magnezone EVs: 40 HP / 252 Atk / 216 Spd
Hope this helps friend , ludvisc'd
hi there i see you have some problem against rock polish landorus, while i know that with three priority moves you can revenge kill it easily i think that you are losing many pokemon. For this reason i think that you can put Orb Latias instead of dragonite. Basically you can come in and take poor damage from hp ice, and drago meteors still hits hard enough. The other two moves can be Hidden power
and psyshock hp fire its still types hard hp fire its still types hard thanks to the sun boost while psyshock lets you beat keldeo and blissey the last move should be roost to have more longevity.
good luck hope i helped
Hi nightcore, thanks for rate ill give it a shot^^
Your team was rated by a group of raters during a #ratemyteam workshop yesterday. If you're interested, you can find the log here.
The suggested changes were Latios over Dragonite, a more Specially Defensive spread on Ninetales, and Bug Bite over Quick Attack on Scizor. Have a good day.
Bumping this, i did a few changes that are now in red ^^
This is a total nitpick and not a full rate, but I don't understand why there is Superpower and not Low Kick.
Low Kick got the same BasePower than SuperPower against Heatran, and a solid 100 BasePower against Ferrothorn.
honestly i didnt know it can learn it o.O i'll try it out and see if its good or not. Thank you!
I like this team. I would trade HP Ice for HP Ground or Fire on Venusaur, reason being that with HP Ground, you have a decent Heatran counter, and with HP Fire, you gain pseudo STAB.
Consider Ice Punch over Bullet Punch on Lucario. You gain much more from it in terms of coverage, hitting Gliscor, both Landorus formes, the Latitiwns, Salamence and other Dragonite for more damage. Of course, do this if you can predict switches, since most of the above will outspeed Luke with a positive speed nature. But if having a strong priority STAB works for you, then Bullet Punch is acceptable too.
This has already been said, but good job with Kabutops, that is something nobody would expect on a sun team, especially thanks to the abundance of rain teams. Just watch out for Toxicroak and the rare Ludicolo in rain teams. A little note, however; since you took off Stone Edge, you might want to consider Stone Edge over Waterfall. Although inaccurate, if sun is up, Stone Edge is more valuable to have. Fighting + Rock has also been proven to have great coverage (thank you Terrakion). Waterfall is fine to have if the plan is to strictly counter rain, however. Just watch out for Toxicroak, since it will wall Kabutops no matter which combination of attacks it has.
I would get rid of Roar on Ninetales. Yeah, it shuffles teams and switch ins, and will not allow set up sweepers to set up, but it has negative priority and you could accidentally phaze to a sandstorm inducer or Politoed. Ninetales isn't exactly bulky either, and won't be able to take a lot of abuse to undermine the negative priority of Roar. I would replace Roar with a coverage move like Energy Ball or Solar Beam since you're using Sunny Day, or a support move like Substitute that would allow you to set up Sunny Day if you predict a switch to another weather inducer. Protect is also nice to stall and rack up Burn damage from Will-o-Wisp.
Change Ninetales' EV spread to 252 HP / 148 SDef / 108 Spd with a Calm nature, which is a much more efficient spread. With it, you get one extra HP point, one extra SDef point and two extra Speed points for the same amount of EVs - the latter allowing you to outspeed the occasional Jolly Breloom.
I'd also change Scizor to have a Jolly nature with an EV spread 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd. I'm not sure what the 80 HP allows it to survive, nor what KOs require an Adamant nature. You may as well go for maximum Speed, as you're playing this team very offensively. Running Jolly Scizor actually has a ton of benefits - including outspeeding Timid Magnezone, Jirachi/Celebi (with minimal Speed investment), Adamant Breloom, Modest Gothitelle etc.
I saw this team today and happily 6-0'ed it.
Try using Roost on Scizor so Mamoswine doesn't fuck you as bad as it already is (considering your only other counter to it is... frail a$$ Lucario who can't switch into it and a Lucario w/o Ice Punch is one who can't deal with common fight resists like Latias / Lando-T / Gliscor / Jellicent / etc, and 3/4 of those mentioned Pokes give Zor a hard time and if Zor gets weakened enough through LO + SR Mamo screws with it).
I find that this team has trouble both getting up Rocks and keeping them off the field. The problem with replacing Kubutops is that you become rain fucked.
I would advise Kubutops < Tenta / Donphan and Breloom > Lucario; but then you got Tornadus-T as a major issue.
IDK how to fix your weaknesses. I wish I could. The thing is you have to play perfectly with Kubutops (and lets not forget your using a sash'ed spinner; quite the conundrum since you rely on sash to live (and then spin or set up) but can't get rid of them until you break you sash via hazards to spin them).
I like the originality of the team, but it's quite hard to keep up SR pressure or keeping them off. I would replace DNite / Luke / Kubutops to Other Dragon or Cane resist / Breloom / Reliable spinner if you want to keep this team.
Contrary to what I've said just now, I actually like the idea as Kubutops as a spinner in sun. My only problem is that its really hard to pull off. Kubutops might Superpower TTar, but Hippo teams are bound to be a bitch (since they can wall Waterfall, SR, OHKO you after Rocks, Slack Off, etc.). Rain teams usually carry water resists too, and with superpower you kind of lack the muscle to break them (Rotom-W, Keldeo, Lati@s, etc.).
I really hope this team works wonders for you; I just don't seem to use it right or something. Keeping SR is super hard; spinning them is hard, and checking rain with it is also hard because I either pick (a) rocks on field / No SS user / Rocks on my side of field (b) spin and have no rocks on field / SS user (c) abuse SS user and suffer the easy pickings of SR.
On to my nitpicks:
- Lucario: Putting 4 EVs into HP is a bad idea since it increases SR damage. Try putting in SDef / Def since you take a little less SR damage. Odd # of HP is always best (I think odd number is like x.75% and then the even becomes the next x.00; I forget but all I know is that it does more SR damage and your better off just not wasting it in HP).
- Scizor: Roost > Bug Bite since you need to keep it alive for Mamo + other threats I'm sure. Reu + Slowbro are not nearly as bad as Mamo (Venu checks Bro while Reu can be knocked by priority between DNite and Luke).
- Kubutops: Give it 4 Evs in one of its defenses. I mean; why not?
- Ninetales: Switch WoW to HP Fighting to break Tran's balloon so you can just EQ with Venu when you see it.
Hey Bro! So I uploaded this exact team on Pokemon Showdown and had a great turnout. I won most of my matches but I did notice a few areas of struggles.
Volcarona: I am not sure on the popularity of Volca...but it really was hard to overcome it. If dragonite were to loose then it was never impossible to stop it.
Kabutops: Maybe its just because I dont know how to use it. But why focus sash it if its main purpose for you is a rapid spinner? It comes in and gets hurt by entry hazards breaking Dat sash.
Lucario: I personally believe this is a great teammate. Have you thought about Air Ballooning it? On the mamoswine note...Ive personally never had a problem with a mamoswine. Either way a mamoswine shouldnt be able to get pass scizor...especially with an swords dance up
252+ Atk Life Orb Mamoswine Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Scizor: 234-277 (68.22 - 80.75%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
While you can 2OHKO with priority of bullet punch.
Gigadrain Vs. Solar Beam: This may sound bad but have you ever considered running both? Gigadrain can be very useful when your opponent switches in that politoed and you get great hp back. However, in other scenarios you just need that extra boost from Solarbeam to finish the job
Mamoswine will either EQ on switch and switch out
or Mamo will switch out when Sciz comes in.
If you read what I said, I said Scizor counters it better, but needs Roost so that it doesn't get worn down.
As for Lucario, I said its frail and that its lack of ice punch make it hard to beat common fighting absorbers that Mamo is bound to be partnered with. Thanks for reading what I said Takion!
Running Solar Beam over Giga is bad, and running both is worse since he needs all the coverage he can get '-'
Thanks for your rates.
you probably havent battled me but someone else since i havent played on yesterday or today.
Honesly idk if running roost is a good idea, i already tried it and since this is an heavy offense i will not have chance to get a roost against anything and losing a coverage move is very bad...
I see what you mean speaking on the weaknesses of this team, you just cant fix problems without changing some pokemon so yeah, i just need to play very carefully against some trheaths like Mamoswine or Landorus or everything else that can be problematic. Honesly this team is not even meant to be the most effective but just something more creative than others team. However ill try your fixes, thanks.
Volcarona is not very common nowadays, however saying "if dragonite dies" is not a valid argument, i mean if i see a volcarona i play carefully with Dragonite to try to handle it.
Focus sash its here to take a random hit or to lead and having sr up no matter what, if i see that kabutops is not going to help in that battle.
For air baloon i must say no, Life orb gives me the power i need, without it ill lose A LOT of importan kos.
I'm sure you've had a lot of people say this, but I think you should consider putting stone edge back on your kabutops. It gives you the ability to hit the therians, flying dragons (specifically dragonite), and volcarona. The therians can really hurt your team, especially under rain. Dragonite can sweep your whole team if it gets enough dragon dances up. The bulkier versions that are capable of surviving your revenge killing efforts will, in fact, 6-0 you. Eventually, kabutops's sash may be the only thing standing between you and doom from these pokemon. The only trouble is, you can't win if you don't have a move capable of 2hkoing them. I honestly never saw the point of superpower. Heatran already gets murdered by lucario and gets hurt by waterfall. Tyranitar will bring up the sandstorm whenever it comes in, meaning if it comes in on kabutops, waterfall is full power. Waterfall is a 2hko on most tyranitar, as far as I know.
Hope this helps, and good luck in the future.
I would DEFINATELY not run Kabutops on a sun team. Either replace it, or the Ninetales. Kabutops (especially with swift swim) would be much better on a rain team. You also have THREE Pokemon that have double weaknesses. Personally, I do not think this is a very stable team. Most of them are great Pokemon, but they hardly have any synergy.
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