The Shooting Star Project [Peaked #14]
The concept behind this team is DragMag offense, so obviously there are going to be many similarities to other DragMag teams posted, since they share many of the same game-winning elements. For instance, this team bears many similarities to PK Gaming's and JabbaTheGriffin's Enter the Dragon, in its use of a powerful Banded Dragon (in my team Kyu-B, in their team Haxorus), Garchomp, Magnezone (although the actual sets differ), and an Ice-type to snipe opposing dragons (Weavile for me, Mamoswine for them). Just like any other DragMag offense team, the game plan is simple. Spam Outrage until a Steel-type is encountered. From there, use Mag to trap and KO the aforementioned steel. Start spamming Outrage again. Annoying physical wall not named Skarmory impeding the progress of the team? Use Mag or another special sweeper to open up even more holes so Outrage can break past their team.
This paragraph is just dedicated to flavor descriptions, so if you want to move onto the substance of this rate, go on ahead and skip it. For those of you out of the loop, this team borrows its name from The Shooting Star Project (ZERO MIX), the name of chapter 518 of Bleach, and the names of the individual Pokemon themselves are the names of various tracks from Pendulum. Weavile's name came from "Ulterior Motive," the track found on the AA side of their "Spiral" EP, and Garchomp, Kyurem-B, and Bronzong drew their names from "Streamline," "Slam," and "Another Planet," the twelfth, second, and thirteenth tracks found in Hold Your Colour, released in 2005. Magnezone got its name from the "Axle Grinder," the fourteenth track in the 2007 re-issue of Hold Your Colour, which replaced "Another Planet" and "Still Grey" with "Blood Sugar" and "Axle Grinder" respectively. Starmie got its name from "Watercolour," the third track of Pendulum's Immersion album. With those descriptions done, let us move onto the team building process.
Ah, Bronzong, Garchomp, and Weavile. One of the most underrated cores in existence. This core, which originated in Forget About Us?, an RMT by Katakiri, is equipped to deal with most of the OU metagame. Bronzong can wall most of the OU tier, thanks to its auspicious typing, incredible defenses, and Levitate. In addition, its pitiful speed allows it to use Gyro Ball at max power against most of OU. Garchomp is fast, powerful, and bulky, and thanks to its new-found access to Rough Skin, it can also punish Pokemon that rely on contact moves to revenge kill it. Weavile is Weavile, and can actually use the release of Techniloom and the Therians to its advantage.
Of course, Skarmory and Bronzong wall Garchomp and Weavile to the ends of the earth and back, so a means of eliminating them is needed. I decided to use Magnezone, since most Skarmory these days opt not to run Shed Shell, making their elimination just a matter of baiting them in with one of either Garchomp, Weavile, or another teammate. Magnezone also gives the team a weapon to use against rain teams that lack Thundurus-T, since nothing important likes switching into Electric-type moves.
Fighting-types sucked for this team to face down. To help beat them down, I decided to employ another underrated Pokemon: Alakazam. With Focus Sash and Magic Guard, it could serve as a nearly perfect revenge killer and special sweeper, eliminating walls and tormenting those that could torment Garchomp and Weavile. It could also serve as an early-game cleaner if the need to do so arose. It also works well with Magnezone, since it lures Scizor in like nothing else in OU, only for it to get trapped in the clutches of Magnezone.
Finally, I needed to find a last member of the team. Taking note that Kyurem-B dropped from Ubers a few months back, I decided now was the time to try it out. It looks stupid to pick a Pokemon that lacks good defensive synergy with the rest of the team, but in practice, it works extremely well. Kyurem-B can destroy the Pokemon that wall the rest of the team, and with Garchomp, it forms a deadly Dragon spam combo. Magnezone works well with it since most people on the ladder won't think twice about switching their bulky, slow steels in to sponge an Outrage, only to get locked into place and shot apart by Magnezone.
So, the team was working well, but I didn't like how Stealth Rock ate at the durability of Kyurem-B and Weavile, members that play very important roles for the team. Alakazam was the weakest link, and it didn't do much that Garchomp and Weavile couldn't already do for themselves, so I decided to change it to Starmie, which provides valuable spin support, while maintaining many of Alakazam's good traits, namely its lightning-fast speed and powerful STAB moves. This is the variant of The Shooting Star Project that peaked at #14 on the OU ladder.
http://i.imgur.com/M9enW.pngWell, this is the end of The Shooting Star Project. My goal with this team was to create a team that could match up well against most team styles, and as far as I'm concerned, I'm pretty happy with the results. Of course, there are some problems out there that my team has trouble beating past. For one, teams that employ multiple Fighting-types and a trapper to eliminate Starmie (Tyranitar comes to mind) are always a massive problem for me to deal with, since they rob the team of its most reliable answer to them. In addition, despite the use of Weavile and Garchomp, sun teams are a bit of a hassle to deal with, and one of the reasons I'm cotemplating the use of Hail over Ice Beam on Starmie, if I even keep Starmie to begin with. This brings me to my next issue. The Starmie set I use just doesn't feel right on this team. Yes, it works, but it's not what I would like. Would a Defensive Starmie work better than my current set?
Anyways, before I finish off this RMT, I'd like to thank my friends (and former tutees) Harsha and Sayonara for convincing me to get back into team rating half a year ago. I would not have hopped back into it on my own accord, and I certainly wouldn't be where I am today if it weren't for them. I'd also like to thank the former for bringing my name up for the reception of the full Team Rater badge. Also, I'd like to thank Delko, Jirachee, and everyone else in #tr_rule for recognizing my efforts. You guys rock. Novaray gets a special mention here because he is a cute user and will most likely suggest that I use Donphan over Starmie as a spinner. Pocket is a great guy that helps me with C&C work, so he gets a mention here! Also, this is my Christmas gift for the RMT forum, which has kindly bestowed upon me the Team Rater badge. If you like this team, leave a Luvdisc in the top right corner. Of course, you don't have to do that,
This team is just amazing. I have never seen this team and it peaked me on my test account on PS. Okay. But no team is perfect. For Starmie, I would prefer Psyshock. Psyshock may have less power, but if you have Natural Cure, Blissey won't be doing anything that bad. This is why you should use Psyshock.
The next suggestion I would like to make is switching your Bronzong to Ferrothorn. Ferrothorn has much better defenses and has access to Gyro Ball. You can run the same set without earthquake. eatrhquake wont mattar because of the fire-type synergy it has Garchomp. These are some key points why you should use Ferrothorn.
- 94 Base Attack (Bronzong = 89)
- 74 / 131 / 116 Defense (Bronzong = 67 / 116 / 116)
- 20 Base Speed = Stronger Gyro Ball (Bronzong = 33)
- Stealth Rock too
- Iron Barbs is better than Levitate to punish U-Turners and Outragers (Levitate is useless when most EQers are slow so Starmie can finish them off.
- Both have no reliable recovery move (at least Ferrothorn has Leech Seed)
- Lower SAtk
- No Earthquake
- More Weaknesses (but has synergy with it)
I mean look at this list so this is the most similiar Ferrothorn I can compare to your Bronzong.
Ferrothorn @ Leftovers
252 HP / 80 Atk / 84 Def / 92 SDef
~ Stealth Rock
~ Gyro Ball
~ Power Whip
~ Swords Dance / Explosion / Leech Seed / Spikes
Yea, Swords dance may seem like a gimmick but it gives Ferrothorn some extra fire power.
Hope I could help! This team is amazing but I found more luck using Ferrothorn.
Woah, another rmt from you.
So this team looks pretty cool, but does have some flaws. So at first look, Heatran looks incredibly difficult to face. Starmie is the only Pokemon on your team who can come into it reliably, but it lacks any recovery and is pursuit weak. A simple fix would be using Recover > Ice Beam. With both Weavile and a Bronzong, Ice Beam isn't needed nearly as much while Recover gives you incredible longevity and a very solid check to Heatran. Similarly to Heatran, Sun teams also look incredibly difficult to face. Additionally Scarf Keldeo is a troublesome Pokemon to face, but running Recover on Starmie does help with that a little. So to help with this, I would suggest running LO Latias > Garchomp. Choice Scarf Garchomp isn't needed as much on this team, while Latias gives you a lot of resistances, including being a Sun check and Keldeo check. A simple set of Draco Meteor / Surf / Psyshock / Recover should work well here. This set attracts Steel-Types like Ferrothorn, like crazy, helping to lure them for Magnezone. Now with this change you lose your main revenger, so I would suggest a Choice Scarf > Choice Band on Kyurem-B. With Magnezone removing most Steel-Types, and Kyurem-B's immense Attack stat, the change of item shouldn't affect his wall breaking potential too much, while at the same time giving you a solid revenger. Anyways, cool team gl.
I think that you're gonna have a lot of issues against Choice Scarf Keldeo on Drizzle teams. It's very easy to get Rain up against your team as you don't have your own weather starter, and from there, Keldeo can simply spam Hydro Pump its way to victory. You have two Water resists, one of which is weak to Keldeo's secondary STAB, is weak to SR, has no recovery, and is used as a dedicated lead most of the time, which is Kyurem-B. This guy won't be very effective when it comes to deal with Keldeo for these reasons. The other Water resist, Starmie, is 2HKOed by Hydro Pump in Rain, plain and simple. It's also fairly easy for Rain teams to switch into it as most of them pack Ferrothorn. Lastly, you can't outspeed Scarf Keldeo. Your own Scarfer is slower than it. Honestly, I don't think that Starmie is the most useful Pokemon for your team, as a Spinner won't be that useful since your Kyurem-B leads anyway, and Weavile couldn't care less about hazard damage. Your team's main goal anyway is to wreck everything before the opponent can react. I'd suggest a Life Orb Latias instead of Starmie. Latias gives you a reliable switch in to Keldeo if you can keep it healthy, which is easy considering Latias has Recover and it's immune to Spikes. Latias has great synergy with the rest of your team too, as it is very capable offensively despite being less powerful than Latios.
I would recommend Fire Blast over Fire Fang on Garchomp. Fire Blast is a pretty cool move for choiced Garchomp, as without SD to boost Fire Fang's power, Fang is pathetically weak. Even with a Jolly nature, you will actually 2HKO physically defensive Skarmory with Fire Blast, which is pretty good compared to the pathetic 30% you're doing with Fire Fang. Fire Blast also stands a better chance of OHKOing Scizor (without counting the miss %), and you can OHKO it without any prior damage too, something that Fire Fang can't (it does a max damage of 99% lol.) Missing Fire Blast sucks, but keep in mind that Fire Fang can miss too and Fire Fang misses are 100x as infuriating as Fire Blast misses.
Here's the set you should use:
Hey tnt. This is an impressive team, and has a solid build. I've recently been using a team quite similar to this when I was laddering. I have to give you a lot of credit on the use of Weavile. It is a very underestimated pokemon that is typically found to be overshadowed by Mamoswine. I used the very same set on my team. Anyway, that's enough about me.
This team is solidly build, but I also recommend LO Latias. You have to have your whole team pressurizing Starmie when facing threats such as Bulk Up Conkeldurr with Ice Punch. The opponent might also be carrying a Pursuit user, so Starmie will have a hard time. However, switching Garchomp to Latias makes you very vulnerable to Pursuit and Scizor, as the opponent can predict the switch into Magnezone and hit you with Superpower. Also, Scizor with Roost can slowly wear down Bronzong, so I think that you should at least give Bronzong Hidden Power Fire and 128 SpA EVs. Though it sounds ridiculous, it ensures you a 2HKO. If it seems to be too much for you, I suggest you run a Heatran set, instead. Heatran outspeeds and has no problem with Scizor. It can run HP Ice, a fire STAB, Stealth Rock, and Earth Power. If you decide to change Garchomp to LO Latias, I think you should also change Kyurem-B's Band to Scarf to revenge kill. That's all I got for you, nice team. Luvdisc'd
wow this is almost the exact same team i used to qualify for the kyurem-b test. i used terrakion over weavile though, mainly to combat sun teams, which definitely give you tons of trouble
anyways in the first rendition of the team i used rain dance kingdra over starmie. i found magnezone did a good job preventing spikes from going up (mine was scarfed), so i didn't really need a spinner. i definitely did miss starmie against deo-d teams. kingdra was pretty much an auto-win against rain teams because once magnezone trapped ferro it was game over. i found with starmie i had a hard time beating rain teams even with a couple of good resists because scarf keldeo could just hpump its way to victory
if you do feel like testing out kingdra over starmie you'll definitely want a fighting resist. rp landorus could fit over weavile to threaten sun. landorus-t is also another option of you want a better terrakion check (who is a pain to face)
scarf chomp / cb kyurem-b (or some other dragon) / support zong / mag is an excellent offensive core that i've been using since the beginning of bw2. the hard part is finding 2 pokemon that handle the core's weaknesses (there are many) without slowing it down too much. if i were you i'd just experiment with a bunch of pokemon in those 2 slots, as i'm sure there is a better combination than what you or i have been using
Also, thanks for the Luvdiscs and amazing rates so far. I'll be sure to update you all if / when I do make changes to the team.
Very nice team you got there. Bravo! All i have for you are some mild set changes.
I feel a bulkier Starmie with RECOVER>Ice Beam and PSYSHOCK>Psychic would go a long way in checking Keldeo,Heatran and Terrakion. You should also opt for SCALD> Hydro Pump. Try an EV spread of 248 HP / 212 Spd and put the remaining EVs in either defensive stat depending on what you want to check better. 212 is enough to outspeed base 110s such as Gengar.
This change somewhat lessens the need for a Latias as others have suggested although I still recommend her as well but I see youre adamant on Garchomp which is fine too.
Kyurem-B really wants 252 Spd EVs to outspeed D-nite,Breloom and Lucario as the added bulk wont do much thanks to its crap typing and it already has good natural bulk for the hits that actually wont be SE on him.
Finally,if you do replace Chomp try a Scarf Magneton for your revenge killer over Magnezone. He has just enough power to do what Zone did and he can revenge kill fairly well with its usable base 70 speed.
Hi tnt, this is a cool team!
The team handles many threats reliably and I only see a few problems that may trouble it. As people have mentioned, rain spam and especially keldeo is painful to face, but so is every other fighting type that hits hard (think terrak, luke etc). The only way to fix it without changing the structure of the team is to use a bulkier starmie spread seeing as it's one of your 2 water resists and only fighting resist.
Starmie @ Leftovers
Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 248 HP / 44 SDef / 216 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Rapid Spin
This spread allows you to deal with keldeo in rain much more comfortably and switch into terrak more easily, albeit making you even weaker to conkelder. I think that since terrak and keldeo are much more common than conk it's in your best interest to check the former 2 and still have a semi reliable way to kill conk after a bit of prior damage.
Hopefully that helped!
Grats on the peak
hey tnt awesome team, congrats on the tr and of course Merry Christmas btw you forgot to give me a shout out for being the cutest team rater on smogon (seriously i give people cute christmas rates!)
Now there really isn't to much to be said about this team seeing as it is quite a solid team, and there are quite a few cool stuff i don't want to change like Weavile and Bronzong. However i highly suggest you use an ev spread of 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe>252 Hp / 252 Atk / 4 Def on Kyurem-B because you mentioned you didn't you didn't like Dragonite because of its low speed, i believe Kyurem needs speed investment so it can't be worn down by all those Pokemon in the 70-90 speed tier. Although you do lose some bulk Kyurem-B doesn't really need it because the offensive Pokemon that can do damage to Kyurem can't switch in to easily because of his raw power and with max speed investment you may be able to outspeed some of these Pokemon and net a 2hko.
Good luck with the team and i apologise for the small rate! There really wasn't to much to be said although i do like Jirachi's idea of Latias>Starmie to help you with your Keldeo problem and with your team being weatherless rain in general. Its also refreshing to see that i am not the only one who enjoys building weatherless offense teams in BW2.
Hey there, congrats on the RMT!
I have no so much to tell about because this is a very solid team; anyway your team has a little weakness to Keldeo, therefore, I suggest you to use EVs: 252 HP / 4 SDef / 252 Spd. This EV spread allows to tank Keldeo's hits better. I'd use also Scald in place of Hydro Pump because with this EV spread Starmie can't do a lots of damages, Scald otherwise can be useful to burn something.
Then, I agree with Superpowerdude's advice to change Kyurem-B's EV spread into 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe. This EV spread allows to outspeed all Pokèmon in 70-90, as already said Superpowerdude, and on the whole, I think that an offensive Pokèmon as Kyurem-B needs a Speed EVs investment. That's all, hope I helped, good luck and Merry Christmas!
Very nice team. There are only a couple of suggestions I can give you that I think would help improve the team. First, I'd definetly get rid of Fire Fang on Garchomp. Fire Blast IS a better option even with a Jolly nature, but still leaves Garchomp as pure setup fodder. Since you already have Magnezone to deal with the things that Fire Fang/Blast are targeting, I'd recommend Stone Edge to give you an easier time against opposing Volcarona, Tornadus-T and Thundurus-T. Rock Slide is weaker but more accurate, and still gets the KOs against the therians after SR damage.
Next, as many others have said, I'd replace Psychic with Psyshock on Starmie. Not for combatting the pink blobs, at it'll still do pittance, but for taking out +1 Keldeo and Terrakion in the sand.
Finally, and I hate to say this, but I'd replace Kyurem with a Dragonite. It gives you an easier time against Sun teams, gives you a second Fighting- and Ground-type resist (I think that all teams should carry at least two), a far better chance against opposing Keldeo and valuable priority. Keeping Multiscale up shouldn't be too difficult thanks to you having a spinner. A Choice Band set is extremely powerful and still viable, but I couldnt help notocing that you don't have any setup sweepers, a win condition you could say. Therefore, you may also want to give the Dragon Dance set a spin. Magnezone support is aldo incredibly valuable if you choose to run the DD set.
So yeah, big props on using Weavile and Bronzong so effectively, you've mafe me want to try them out :)
Just posting to say that I really love everything on this team: the presentation, the members, and your detailed description of their roles. It looks a great team, I can see some problems but listing them is redundant, my rate would look an exact copy of Jirachi's one: the main problem I can see are Rain Hydro Pumps by the likes of Keldeo and its friends. While K-B boasts absurd bulk, it's weak to Secret Sword and to hazards, and Starmie as pointed out will go down very fast anyway. Unfortunately, even switching to a Bulky Starmie doesn't help: Keldeo still 2HKOs with Specs or Rain up. I fully support Jirachi's LO Latias to handle Scarf Keldeo. The other suggestion (already mentioned, too) that I'd implement on this team is Fire Blast over Fire Fang on Chomp, basically for the reasons Jirachi explained in his reply.
Again, great team, good luck playing it!
Yea LO Latias. Thats a really good suggestion, but you lose that precious Rapid Spin support for Kyurem-B and Weavile. I really think Fire Blast is better on Garchomp since it does more damage to Forretress and Skarmory. Fire Fang is useless in in Rain and Fire Blast will be equal to Fire Fang in Rain with the 50% drop about.
I tested this team out and while it is very good at defeating rain/sand, I can never get past sun teams. It is extremely weak to fire, and your fire resists are killed by Venasaur. I want to suggest Heatran instead of bronzong. Here is a sample set:
Heatran @ Leftovers
Trait: Flash Fire
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SDef / 8 Spd
- Lava Plume
- Stealth Rock
You are quite weak to sun teams. Volcarona in particular is a huge problem. I would use Mamoswine and Terrakion over Kyurem and weavile to give you the same ease with revenge killing chlorophyll pokemon and Terrakion for sun teams. Terrakion could be LO/SubSalac/CB. This team also kind of struggles with fighting types, notably BU conkeldurr. My other suggestion is ( bulky NP ) celebi and forretress over bronzong and starmie which keeps your spinner intact and gives you the Special landorus switch in.
Celebi > Starmie
Mamoswine > Kyurem-B
Forretress > Bronzong
I suggest 60 speed evs on Kyurem to outspeed adament Breloom. The Magnezone set is just brilliant.
A lot of what should be said has been said already, so I'll bandwagon this time and agree with many others on the idea of Bulky Starmie. I'd use Scald / Psyshock / Recover / RSpin on that one, since you still want to keep your ability to OHKO Gengar. Since your team doesn't really have any other solid fighting type counters, I think making Starmie bulky is your best bet.
Nice team! I am really quite surprised that such an offensive team as yours can be so solid even with such slow and defensive steels such as Magnezone or Bronzong. Your RMT was beautiful, and was quite entertaining to read as well.
Keep up the good work!
After taking a second look at the team I have more to add on. To the people suggesting psyshock on starmie, he is already 1 ttar away from being swept by conkeldurr, so probably no. To be honest the team's weak link is actually kyurem B. Yes it has immense power, yes its bulk is impressive, but it simply requires too much support to be used with a
band set. Yes it demolishes stall, but vs offense it's just making a 1 for 1 trade-off, especially with no speed investment. Even at that, opponents can save fodders and what not to bring in a fighting type that could 2hko the entire team. However, since the team's synergy (both offensive and defensive) revolves around the bulky yet offensive nature of kyube, there isn't much that can be changed. I think a tank latias and another semi bulky wallbreaker/heavy hitter would do great over starmie and kyube.
Just my opinion.
Amazing team, TNT! Bronzong is a nice touch to this otherwise traditional DragMag team ;d I dig your style.
As mentioned already, Scarf Keldeo in the Rain is problematic. Unlike what most people suggested, bulky Starmie is a poor excuse for Scarf Keldeo, as its Hydro Pump solidly 2HKOs it in the Rain. Your only solid option against it is Kyurem-B, which is a shaky answer, too. Try using Latios or Kingdra over Starmie. They are both fearsome threats once Magnezone removes Ferrothorn. Latios have the immediate Speed and power, but Kingdra can boost its Speed in Rain or with Dragon Dance. Either options would provide a much better answer against Keldeo than bulky Starmie. Even more, Latios is a good check against RP Landorus and Agility Thundurus-T.
There are various sets you can try for either. For Latios you can try a 3 Atk + CM / Roost / Rain Dance at Life Orb, Water Gem, Lum Berry, etc. Kingdra can go Special LO Rain Dance or Mixed DD, both equally threatening. If you go with Rain Dance on either set, you would have an additional weapon against Sun and Sand Teams.
You still want to minimize hazards on your field, though, since you have Kyurem-B, and Latios wont be tanking hits easily if it has to take hazards damage. I'd suggest Xatu over Weavile's spot. Xatu can protect this team from Deo-D hazards and other defensive spikers. Even if it dies against an offensive one, it has served its purpose in retarding entry hazards from going up. As a bonus, it also cock-blocks Breloom, too ;d You lose Weavile, but I think Latios / Kingdra would provide enough offensive pressure against other Dragons and Therians, and now you have Xatu for Breloom.
This is more of an option rather than a recommendation: SubSalac SD Garchomp > Scarf Chomp. You lose the immediate Speed of a Scarfer, but your team sort of overburdens Kyurem-B in punching holes, and when Kyurem-B prematurely bites the dust then your team falters. With SD, Garchomp can provide a back-up wallbreaking power early game while with Salac threatening to sweep late-game far better than the Scarf set. Dragon & Ground is all the offensive coverage it needs, since Magnezone would be disposing Skarmory for it.
Finally, your Kyurem-B needs Speed. Having bulk is nice, but you end up taking more damage than necessary by being slower than Dragonite / Lucario / Low Sweep Breloom, etc. Your spread is rather meaningless anyways, since Scizor's BP Bullet Punch would more often than not OHKO Kyurem-B after SR damage anyways (70-83%). I'd AT LEAST give Kyurem-B some Speed to be faster than specially defensive Jirachi, who would otherwise Iron Head flinch it to death x.x; I personally recommend 244 Atk / 28 Def / 236 Spe, so that it's faster than Jolly Mamoswine (and everything below it). It can still survive CB Bullet Punch at full-health and has enough Atk to 3HKO Forretress with Fusion Bolt. Since you have Xatu now, replace Sleep Talk with Ice Beam, which will let you take down defensive grounds faster.
Thanks for sharing another magnificently presented RMT; and thanks for the shout out!
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