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Victim of the Week: Week 6, Volcarona
Approved by Birkal and Harsha Credit to Delver for the idea Hi people, I'm Neliel and I'll be your host for this thread! You may have seen this project in the LC forum, and it works in a similar fashion. Every week, I will decide the Victim of the Week, and you guys have to discuss about which Pokemon, and what strategy, checks it better. It can be whatever you want, even customized sets to deal with the Pokemon, but if you do so remember to give proper explanation of it. Remember also that we should discuss all the possibilities this game offers to deal with a specific threat, so don't post always the same two to three Pokemon. The purpose of this thread is to help newer players learning how to face some dangerous Pokemon as well as having some discuss about new sets that may work in OU in order to counter a specific threat. http://pldh.net/media/pokemon/gen5/b..._front/637.gif Volcarona 85 Hp / 60 Atk / 65 Def / 135 Satk / 105 Spd / 100 Spe Abilities: Flame body, Swarm We all know why Volcarona is Ou; Quiver dance. This moth have the access to one of the best boosting move, being a special dragon dance with the bonus of the special defense. Volcarona seems perfect to use quiver dance, 100 base speed is not bad in this metagame, and 135 special atk its just awesome. Its stab are not bad either, fire and bug are good, but also the other coverage moves it has make make it even more threatening. The fact that under sun it has a 270 base power move with quiver dance, is enough to say how scary it can be. But if you want to use it under rain, you can do that too, since it also have the cool Hurricane to combine with bug buzz. If this want enough, in bw2 it got giga drain and roost, being able to bypass terrakion and keldeo easier, as well as being able to run defensive sets more efficently. You also have to face the fact that everytime you are using a dragon to counter it, it will have hidden power ice, and if you use Heatran it will have hp ground. So this is one of those counterless pokemon, but then why it isnt in every single team? the reason is its typing, that lets it take 50% from stealth rock. This is an huge let down for it, since stealth rock is almost in every team. Sometimes you dont even need to counter it, because the fact that there is sr up will garante you it wont sweep.
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Heatran stops every Jirachi set in the game. Even the CM set fears a roar to the face, and the sunny day set can laugh off Water Pulse day and night while firing STAB Sun'ed Fire Blasts. No contest.
To a lesser extent, Ninetales is also a really solid check to every Jirachi set. It can't set up CM's either since roar and STAB flamethrower, while it can't Iron Head all day if it manages to Para since lefties should restore most of its health. Tale's SR weakness in general is probably why it isn't the best counter, as Jirachi has this move called U-turn. Gliscor is also a pretty solid check, if it isn't switching into any +1 Water Pulses. Offensive Gliscor should outspeed every Jirachi bar the scarf variant. Thundurus-T can set up all day on Jirachi as well imo. The only set that can actually hurt it is that CM set, and assuming water pulse never confuses ThundyT can beat it most of the time. I think ThundyT can even live Ice Punch from the scarf variant. |
Oh wow! I like the idea of this thread. Well...im going to be the first one i think :]
http://www.smogon.com/download/sprites/bw/477.png Gliscor @ Toxic Orb Trait: Posion Heal Impish Nature 252 HP / 184 Def / 72 Spe -Substitute -Protect -Earthquake -Toxic / Taunt / Ice Fang This bro has all what it is needed to counter Sub Para Jirachi. That set packs Substitute, Body Slam or Thunder Wave, Iron Head and Fire Punch. His main role is to paralyze the victim and start flinching like hell, if you are facing an steel type (named ferrothorn) go for the Fire Punch. Now, what can this do against Gliscor? Gliscor laughs at Jirachi's attempts to paralyze him (because of toxic orb), he doesn't fear iron head neither fire punch. Poison heal really helps him against Jirachi, recovering half the amount taken by an iron head, then protect and recover the other half. Just earthquake the tiny fairy and problem solved. 252Atk Jirachi (Neutral) Iron Head vs 252HP/184Def Gliscor (+Def): 20% - 24% (72 - 85 HP). EDIT: thanks Shurt, now im not the first one :[ |
Hi, Neliel^^
Interesting discussion, Jirachi is an extremely versatile Pokemon in OU metagame, in all his sets. A Pokemon that can block Jirachi in its moveset more used in the OU metagame ie Specially Defensive (with or without Stealth Rock), Calm Minder under rain, or even with Choice Scarf is Gastrodon, which with its type Ground / Water is able to do not take damage from Thunder which is heavily used by both Jirachi Calm Minder in the rain, both from the Specially Defensive also its ability Storm Drain allows him not even take damage from Water Pulse, thus increasing the special attack Gastrodon. As concern the moves of Choice Scarf Jirachi, or Iron Head, Ice Punch, Fire Punch and U-Turn Gastrodon the straps very well thanks to its type and investment in HP and defense. Gastrodon, can also kill Jirachi using Earthquake which is the STAB and being a move and no special physical completely ignores the increase of special defense of Jirachi by Calm Mind. Here is the moveset: http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_ooyJv4nLCq...don%5B1%5D.png Gastrodon (M) @ Leftovers Trait: Storm Drain EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef Relaxed Nature (+Def, -Spd) - Earthquake - Recover - Scald - Ice Beam Investment in defense are used to collect the best Psychock also, that despite being a special move affects physical defense. Relaxed nature is obviously not to diminish the physical attack, that is the power of Earthquake. |
Dugtrio can come in on the common thunder or calm mind and kill it with earthquake, it is unable however to compete with the scarf set, and it cannot switch in to iron head or ice punch, magnezone can tank pretty much everything jirachi has and can eventually ko with thunderbolt I wouldn't suggest zone though because its slower than jirachi and can simply u-turn out
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Jirachi has problems with Ground-types in general, especially those that are physically bulky, as long as they aren't weak to Psyshock. They can generally shrug off Water Pulse, break its Substitute with Earthquake, and OHKO if Jirachi decides to stay.
Although Quagsire is a niche Pokémon, it is peharps the best counter to Jirachi. It ignores all the CM boosts, shrug off hits from Specially Defensive and Scarf sets, and can OHKO with Earthquake. Unless Jirachi decides to run a Grass-type attack, she will always lose. However, Jirachi will not run a Grass-type attack because they offer poor coverage with her other moves. Generally, I don't need to pack a solid counter to Jirachi, not only because she has no solid counters apart from Quagsire, but because the counters really depend from the set that she is running. However, I have my own ways to counter or check Jirachi. I always pack a Ground-type for the reasons that I said above. Jirachi cannot tank Earthquakes, and unless she has a boost, she will never be able to defeat them with even a rain-boosted Water Pulse. For example, Landorus is my solid check to Jirachi, as it can come in on almost everything, except Body Slam, or Ice Punch from Scarf sets. So, guys, if you are having problems with Jirachi, just use Ground-type Pokémon; most of them are excellent checks to her. |
Green, it should be noted that you have the wrong statistics for Relaxed Nature. You have it listed as +Special Defense, -Attack, when it should read +Defense, -Speed. As far as other counters though, Skarmory is good for dealing with any set lacking Thunder or Thunderpunch, as Skarmory, with its base 140 Defense it laughs at Body Slam and Iron Head. While Paralysis is annoying, Skarmory's base 70 Speed isn't exactly getting you anywhere. Remember, Skarmory is ONLY good in the case Jirachi is lacking Thunder or Thunderpunch, so be wary of the pixie if you see it on rain teams.
http://www.pokemonelite2000.com/wp-c...011/03/227.gif Skarmory@Leftovers Trait: Sturdy EVs: 252 HP, 232 Def, 24 Speed Impish Nature (+Defense, -Special Attack) Spikes Whirlwind Roost Brave Bird EV Investment is fairly explanatory, as you nearly maximize HP and bulk while having a little extra Speed. Generally you are going to just Whirlwind as you really can't do anything back, and can even start racking up hazards damage if you decide to set up Spikes. |
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@Organization Member: Thanks! while I exported the moveset from PS, I put another mistake for nature and I just edited it, but without change statistics influenced, I corrected the message previous! :)
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Shurtugal and Dark Fallen Angel nailed it. Another answer is to jirachi is jellicent
Jellicent@leftovers nature:bold (+defense, -attack) ability: water absorb evs: 252hp/216def/44speed -scald -recover -toxic -taunt Like skarmory, jellicent needs to be wary of thunder, tho thunder is a 3hko. Jellicent resist jirachis iron head and takes nothing from body slam, while threatening jirachi back with a scald burn. After that, jellicent can taunt and stall out jirachi from its burn damage. Landorus therian is another good answer to rachi, but like shurtugal said about raich, it cant switch into +1 water pulse, but he needs some speed investments to outpace bulky rachi |
Ferrothorn is a great answer to paraflinch Jirachi, because every time Jirachi uses Iron Head, it takes more damage from Iron Barbs than Ferro does from the attack (I know this from experience with Jirachi, not Ferro). I haven't had to deal with CM Jirachi a lot, but I've heard that Politoed with Perish Song can stop it pretty effectively.
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Neil,
At +2, Thunder is a OHKO while thunderbolt is doing 87%. I think its safe to say that thundurus-T is exactly what I said: a check. |
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I would replace taunt with ice beam if you are planning to counter Jirachi. Jirachi is faster and a choice scarf trick could really mess Jellicent up. This has happen to me only once but it is best to prepare for everything, am I right? I suggest ice beam for type coverage. With the right predictions, a physically defensive jelly can take down even the toughest Salamance and Dragonite with an ice beam 2HKO. (I know we are roasting Jirachi right now but I feel a need to justify ice beam :) |
http://www.smogon.com/download/sprites/bw/455.png
Hippowdon (M) @ Leftovers Trait: Sand Stream EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SDef Careful Nature (+SDef, -SAtk) - Stealth Rock - Slack Off - Earthquake - Whirlwind Hippo is one of the best if not the best Jirachi counter. It's immune to Thunder and doesn't fear paralysis from Body Slam as it's already slow. Iron Head is like a 8HKO so flinching it to death is near impossible. CM Jirachi can't do anything, because Water Pulse is to weak outside of rain(4 SpA Jirachi Water Pulse vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Hippowdon: 86-102 (20.47 - 24.28%) -- possible 6HKO) and all its other moves do even less damage. On the other side Hippo always 2HKO 252 HP Jirachi or can phaze it out. And in contray to Heatran it has reliable recovery, so can do its job over and over again without getting worn down. |
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@toomuchsugar: i think fire punch is a 2hko, if not from his bulky set, then the scarfed and mixed attacker. |
To add my contribution:
http://sprites.pokecheck.org/i/302.gif Sableye @ Leftovers Trait: Prankster EVs: 248 HP / 124 Def / 136 SDef Calm Nature IVs: 0 Atk - Will-O-Wisp - Taunt - Recover - Foul Play This set is a cold hard stop to Specially Defensive Jirachi. It is immune to the Body Slam it commonly carries; it can Taunt it to stop Wish+Protect nonsense, Stealth Rock, or the rare Toxic; it Wisp-burns the Haxmaster to make its Iron Heads do nothing to it; it can Recover off any damage before Jirachi tries to do any flinch-stalling; using Foul Play, you can chip away at Jirachi 25.24 - 29.95% at a time. Sableye also can check Choice Scarf sets with a priority Burn; you just have to avoid Trick. If it happens to be in on a Sub+CM Jirachi, Foul Play does 23.01 - 26.98% at a time (or 20.04 - 23.76% if they were smart and cut their Attack IV's to 0 like people neglect to do). Taunt it to stop CM and Subs, Foul Play and break one, and immediately burn Jirachi to cripple its Sub-making the rest of the match. For SubCM, here are +0 calcs (honka):
And +1:
So Sableye is a counter to Specially Defensive, a great "check" to Scarf (it would be a "counter" if it weren't for switching into a Trick), and a very situational check to SubCM. I love this demon. |
Neliel, two things before the rest of my post: I love you for making this topic, especially since the first one you chose Jirachi for the first victim. Second, oh my god change your title sig thing right now if people start using Timid Venusaur then my Scarf Latios is out of a job and I don't know how to deal with him.
On to the festivities! http://media.pldh.net/pokemon/gen5/b..._front/462.gif Magnezone @ Choice Specs Trait: Magnet Pull Modest Nature EVs: 200 HP / 252 SpA / 56 Spe Thunderbolt Volt Switch Hidden Power Fire Flash Cannon The only Jirachi that can escape is Calm Mind or a Jirachi with U-turn, assuming it's not Scarfed and has already picked an attack. Even paralyzed Magnezone has a good chance of taking Jirachi with it, as a single turn where Jirachi maybe goes for Wish or it doesn't get the paraflinch results in a quick 46%-54% of its HP disappearing, and without Drain Punch or Fire Punch Jirachi is giving Magnezone a long time to zap it. |
I can't believe no-one has done this yet but Heatran is an amazing counter to Jirachi. Here is the one I use in my standard team:
Heatran@air Balloon/leftovers http://www.smogon.com/download/sprites/dp/490.png Ability: Flash fire Calm nature EV: 252HP, 240Spd, 18SpA --Stealth rocks --Will-O-wisp --Lava pulme --Earth Power Stealth rocks is because your Heatran isn't going to get any better chance to set up against any other Pokemon then Jirachi. Heatran can use either one of its attacks to kill Jirachi (95% chance OHKO) but I suggest Lava Pulme for stab unless there is a risk of your opponent switching into someone with flash fire. However, if they do swich into flash fire then just earth power that guy to another dimension. Anyway, Will-O-wisp is if you already have stealth rocks out, it makes for a great switching trap. Unless your opponent has flash fire, but again, earth power was made for this reason. Lastly, if your opponent thinks he can OHKO heatran with water pulse (which I almost never see) then they are wrong, you will have enough time to set up Heatran but not enough time to kill Jircahi so switch out next turn. If your opponent does not have water pulse and has so much balls that they don't switch out then Heatran will completely destroy Jirachi (assuming you aren't haxed 10 times in a row by iron head flinch). Heatran resists basically everything Jirach can throw at him and as long as it doesn't have trick then your opponent can say "good bye" to Jirachi! Conclusion: Heatran is really a trap for Jirachi, if your opponent sees it then they will almost positively switch out. This is why you always want to go for the set up first unless you are 100% sure that a lava plume won't backfire. I like to screw over fire types switching in with earth power. That is so much fun :D |
Actually without Roar Heatran struggles against SubCM Jirachi under rain. After 2 Calm Minds Earth Power won't be breaking Jirachi's Subs, while Water Pulse deals massive damage to Heatran. Not exactly counter, but still a check, because Jirachi will lose quite some health before it reaches +2.
Other than that the specially defensive and the Choice Scarf set are countered nicely by Heatran. |
Heatran is pretty much a hard stop to all Rachis if it packs Roar. Jirachi fears the Lava Plume Burn because of Iron Head generally liking full power. Scarf Rachis are annoying though as they can just U-Turn out.
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http://www.smogon.com/download/sprites/bw/628.png
Ferrothorn @ Leftovers Trait: Iron Barbs Sassy Nature EVs: 252 HP / 192 Atk / 64 SpD - Gyro Ball / Power Whip - Bulldoze - Spikes / Stealth Rock - Leech Seed With the given EVs Ferrothorn always breaks 252 HP Jirachi's subs and so acts as a fullproof counter against both popular variants (SpD and SubCM). Bulldoze is also usefull to 2HKO Zone on a predicted switch, and to prevent him from setting up on you in general, and deals major damage to Heatran too, while also preventing Volcarona from getting any Speed boost in desperate situations. Everything else is pretty standard. |
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Anyways, I have another submission: http://www.smogon.com/download/sprites/bw/195.png Quagsire (F) @ Leftovers Trait: Unaware EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SDef Relaxed Nature (+Def, -Spd) - Earthquake - Scald - Toxic - Recover Quagsire is immune to Thunder, doesn't fear paralysis that much and resists Iron Head. It also has Recover to heal off any damage Jirachi can do to it. In return Earthquake is solid 3HKO (15.23% to 2HKO). With Unaware Quagsire can just ignore all the boosts SubCM Jirachi might have and take it out with Earthquake, while Jirachi fails to do significant damage with Psychic. Even when using physically defensive Quagsire, SubCM Jirachi has only a 75% chance to 3HKO. |
Unless you run very specific target sets like Alexwolf's Bulldoze Ferrothorn, it's tough to truly counter Jirachi because of the amount of versatile sets it cam run. Knowing Jirachi's set often helps you handle it- as again unless you carry a Heatran your 'counter' might not always work. For example, Ferrothorn without Bulldoze loses completely to SubCM Rachi. As someone who has toyed endlessly with Jirachi and experimented with SubCM for a long period of time, I would like to say that SpecsZone and Ferrothorn can not successfully handle SubCM RainRachi, and that Sableye, Jellicent, and Skarmory are all shaky counters as well. Specially Defensive Rachi is a bit easier to counter as it isn't really meant for any sort of offense, instead it is a special sponge that can support its teammates with paraflinch. For this reason, nearly anything that resists Iron Head can beat SpDef Jirachi bar steel types which can be hit decently hard with the rare Fire Punch. One notable pokemon that hasn't been mentioned yet as a counter to SpDef and Scarf Rachi as well as a check to SubCM RainRachi is Specially Defensive Rotom-W.
http://media.pldh.net/pokemon/gen5/b...t/479-wash.gif Rotom-W @ Leftovers / Chesto Berry Calm / 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 Spe Hydro Pump / Volt Switch / (WiloWisp / Thunder Wave) / (Pain Split / Rest) SpDef Rotom-W takes 6-7% from Jirachi's Iron Head- which is healed off with Leftovers each turn. Body Slam does 22% on average, but it gives you many more opportunities to fight back- hitting hard with Hydro Pump, crippling with TWave / WoW, healing off Rachi's massive HP stat with Pain Split, or Volt Switching out to a faster ground type such as Dugtrio to nail it. Rotom-W can handle ScarfRachi quite easily as well- again, Body Slam is its most powerful move against you, and a status move will just completely shut ScarfRachi down. SubCM Rachi is a bit harder to beat, but if you come in early enough you can force Rachi to not Sub up with repeated HPumps and then status it but this strategy is riskier and requires prediction. Basically, to beat Jirachi, you need to status it, kill it fast, or force it out. There are many different ways to do this, but these strategies have different amount of reliabilities on different sets- for example, checks that rely on status such as Ferrothorn or Jellicent will lose to SubCM Jirachi, but work very well against SpDef Jirachi. Phazers like Skarmory work well against SubCM, but ScarfRachi can beat them pretty easily. That's why knowing Jirachi's set is so important- as then you can deal with it quickly and efficiently. |
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