Artwork by Cartoons! For more info on Pyroak, click the picture.
This thread marks the beginning of the third period of playtesting for the first six CAPs (Syclant, Revenankh, Pyroak, Fidgit, Stratagem, Arghonaut).
The Pyroak Playtesting ladder will replace the Revenankh Playtest ladder for the next 10 days, allowing us to test Pyroak in isolation against the Platinum OU environment. Ladder ratings will NOT be reset. Here are the current standings (from the very start of the Pyroak test):
1. HAX IS BAD (1,619.88)
2. FUZZNIP (1,610.70)
3. CLOUDY DAY BLUES (1,558.13)
4. REYSCARFACE. (1,528.45)
5. BEEJ (1,523.87)
6. REYSCARFACE (1,495.14)
7. LADDAH (1,486.78)
8. MINETFIBER (1,476.42)
9. ELEVATOR MUSIC (1,470.06)
10. RETINOL (1,468.83)
11. LOCOPOKE (1,467.78)
12. HYBRID (1,467.35)
13. ZARATOR (1,459.79)
14. REACHZERO (1,455.57)
15. BOBTHEBALL4 (1,455.20)
Don't be intimidated by these numbers, though. If you know OU, and you are willing to experiment with Pyroak -- then you should do just fine.
This thread will serve as home base for sharing playtesting information about Pyroak. Post comments, advice, movesets, strategies, etc. If you post long battle logs and or teams, please enclose them in CODE tags as not to scroll the page. We encourage people to post their teams here, for those that don't want to make full RMTs. Just a couple of sentences per Pokemon will do fine, explaining what it does for the team and why you chose it. Nothing fancy is required.
At the end of the playtesting period (August 29th), the most proficient battlers on the Playtesting ladder will be awarded with Custom Titles to represent their achievements. Remember to stay active throughout the majority of the playtesting period, not just at the end. The method of selecting those who qualify for the CT has not been decided yet; however, EXP with the CAPs could be a major factor.
At the end of each CAP's playtesting period, a thread will be posted where an analysis will be drafted based off experiences with the CAP.
CAP9 will be started as soon as possible, please don't ask about it.
Syclant: Friday, June 26th - Sunday, July 5th
Ladder Change: Monday, July 6th
Revenankh: Tuesday, July 7th - Thursday, July 16th
Ladder Change: Friday, July 17th
Pyroak: Saturday, July 18th - Monday, July 27th <- You are here.
Ladder Change: Tuesday, July 28th
Fidgit: Wednesday, July 29th - Friday, August 7th
Ladder Change: Saturday, August 8th
Stratagem: Sunday, August 9th - Tuesday, August 18th
Ladder Change: Wednesday, August 19th
Arghonaut: Thursday, August 20th - Saturday, August 29th
The ladder is now open. Enjoy!
The ladder is now open. Get playtesting!
It seems like Pyroak has been just as unspectacular as it is in the 8CAP metagame. I've seen mainly bulky Leech Seed variants, but none have been too hard to take down (in fact its been relatively easy, especially if SR is down).
My team is definitely prepared for Pyroak though, so maybe thats why I'm not having any trouble with it.
Before Pyroak playtesting even started, I've been trying to design a lead set, since Pyroak has awesome typing, great bulk, has access to Stealth Rock, and has two 120 base powered moves. The set is:
Pyroak (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Rock Head
EVs: 252 HP/146 Atk/108 Def/4 Spd
Impish nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- Wood Hammer
- Flare Blitz
- Stealth Rock
- Roar / Will-O-Wisp / Synthesis
Pyroak is pretty much always capable of setting up Stealth Rock, only being stopped by Taunt users. The EV spread may seem a little complicated at first glance, but it's really simple. The 4 Speed EVs allow Pyroak to outspeed the standard lead Swampert, and can 2HKO it with Wood Hammer while Swampert struggles to deal a considerable amount of damage. 252 HP and 108 Defense gives Pyroak 444 HP and 300 Defense, enough for it to survive Azelf's Explosion, two LeadTar's Stone Edges, and two Gyarados' Stone Edges. The rest of the EVs are put into Attack so Pyroak can deal some threatening damage back with Wood Hammer and Flare Blitz. The last moveslot is mainly filler. I've been using Roar since it can use it pretty well. There are a ton of other options though, this include: Leech Seed, Will-O-Wisp, Synthesis, Aromatherapy, Light Screen, Reflect, Toxic, and Substitute.
This set has been working wonderfully so far, and it's definitely worth trying.
On another note, Gyarados (specifically TauntDos) and Tyranitar are gonna be big right now as far as I can see.
pyroak has a huge support movepool, unfortunatly, his most common sets are:
Pyroak @ leftovers
When, as fuzznip said, he is a very valuable team member. People are underestimating him just because he doesn't sweep teams or wall all physical attackers ever. He's a good support mon without fidget to provide competition. Will Edit this post later with more info.
@ fuzznip: Tyranitar isn't as threatining as one would think, since tyranitar can't switch in very safely. He could risk getting his health sapped by leech seed, take heavy damage from grass knot, walk into reflect allowing pyroak to possibly outstall or at least ware him down with seeds and grass knot, or even get burned by lava plume. I.E., while tyranutar can be a good counter, he has trouble switching in to it's three most common moves.
ScarfStarmie is an excellent teamate. Seriously, go to it's strategy pokedex page, look at the counters sections. Pretty every single one of them except for togekiss is OHKO'ed by starmie, and scarf is used to take out pesky salamence who DDance on the switch. Tricking ghosts also gives many more oppurtonities to spin. I'm running trick, rapid spin, ice beam, and surf. Too bad though about no room for recover, but luckily most walls who I'll be tricking to carry leftovers.
I made a SubSeedOak yesterday and tested it on my stall team. It actually works quite well. Here it is:
Ability: Battle Armor
EVs: 248 HP/88 Spe/174 SpA
Modest nature (+SpA, -Atk)
248 HP EVs round down Stealth Rock damage(good ol' Oak has 120 base HP, which, when maxed rounds SR damage up). 88 Spe EVs beats 72 Spe EV'ed Tyranitar and a few others whose names I don't remember. Fire Blast is a garuntied 2HKO w/ SR on MaxHP/NoSpD Kiss, Grass Knot garruntied 3HKO on a 200HP/No SpD Tyranitar, Fire Blast is a 1HKO on most Meta, 0 HP/0 SpD Mence and SR there is a low chance of a 2HKO, but a garruntied 3HKO. 0 HP/0 SpDef Gyra is always 2HKo'ed.
I got the EVs from the May '09 statistics, so if there is a EV spread people use more that the one listed for these pokemon, can you tell me?
Defensive sets are overshadowed by stuff like Celebi. Because of this, I'm using a Substitute Pyroak with both Flare Blitz and Wood Hammer. One thing that Pyroak actually does well is beating down skarmbliss. Also, Pyroak under a sub can beat Tyranitar, which is great. With its amazing bulk, it can even take hits from Rotom. To typical Stall team members such as Swampert, Rotom-a, Skarmory, Blissey, Forretress, Celebi, and Hippowdon, Pyroak's nifty STABs and bulk allow it to take down all of these monsters. Hell, it even is immune to Will-o-Wisp. This is a great oppurtunity to use Pyroak offensively, as not many will wall it 100%.
In my opinion, it can't possibly compete with Celebi in terms of support. Celebi has much more to offer than Pyroak in terms of that. Offensively, however, Pyroak has a much more unique niche.
If you go offensive, Brick Break is a valuable weapon, allowing you to hit Heatran (as well as Tyranitar), who Pyroak has a lot of trouble with otherwise.
HP [Ground] may get some use during the test, but its a bit early to tell how gimmicky that would be (and my guess is very gimmicky). I'd rather use HP [Ice] to hit dragons if I HAD to rely on hidden power for coverage...
Yeah, Brick Break is pretty cool. Although it doesn't hit Heatran entirely too hard. Since Pyroak's SpA is higher than it's attack, i'd rather use a mixoak or something with HP Ground and Wood Hammer. Sadly Pyroak is more biased to Special Attack, I believe it should have been more biased to Attack, which it makes better use of IMO. :/
I have been trying to use a MixOak, and it hasn't been working out as well as I intended. The moveset was Wood Hammer, Overheat/Fire Blast, HP Electric, Brick Break. Wood Hammer and Overheat are obvious, possibly going for Fire Blast for power, Brick Break hits Heatran and HP Electric hits Gyarados, but so far the set hasnt been working. It doesnt have the power to work effeciently, which is dissapointing.
In my opinion, I don't really see Pyroak as an offensive Pokemon. As in, it shouldn't be used offensively. It's built to wall/tank/stall because of its typing and stat distribution. It definitely has two really high powered STAB moves which can help it hurt others without being completely vulnerable on the offensive side, but the majority of its moves help it become better defensively.
Many people are having slight trouble using Pyroak offensively, because if you give it an offensive EV spread, its bulk kind of withers away, which means it's left open to hard hitters like Latias and Tyranitar. On the other hand, if you give it more defensive investment, it loses attacking power which leaves it struggling to hit bulky threats for a decent amount of damage.
Just my observations so far.
I'm using Pyroak as a lead, mostly to beat stall. I run the set Fuzznip suggested, but with a few modifications:
Ability: Rock Head
EVs: 248 HP 150 Atk 112 Def (maxing HP makes it weaker to stealth rock, and spe evs aren't needed because swampert always runs a -spe nature.)
Impish nature (+Def -SpA)
Leech Seed/Stealth Rock
I was inspired by Abomasnow, because on my hail teams I always liked him as a lead except for his many weaknesses. Pyroak is able to run a similar set but with stealth rock, fewer weaknesses, and better STAB.
I agree with Plus that defensive Pyroak is not as useful because Celebi is pretty much universally better. Stealth rock weaknesses suck.
With all the Pyroak, Tyranitar, and Pokemon that can counter both of them, I've been using a Sub Bulk Up Machamp set with stone edge and No Guard and its been working extremely good, being able to set up on Pyroak or CB Tyranitar with sub and then powering up with Bulk up.
I've also been using Dragon Dance Tyranitar instead of CB, because most players will expect CB just for Pyroak. I have tried any Pyroak set yet though, but I'm looking forward to it ...
I realize that Celebi is better then Pyroak defensively with its many more support options, but Pyroak is best at stalling opponents and tanking since it does have two high powered STAB moves. Fire/Grass is a solid typing in my opinion (only having 3(?) weaknesses) and it's a good defensive typing to, except for the Stealth Rock weakness.
I honestly don't like using it offensively, but that's just me.
That said, the only thing its really good for in my opinion is being a suicide lead. It loses pretty hard to Heatran, but its not half bad. People who get cocky with TTar/Gyarados get outsped and 2hko'd. It doesn't have terrible offensive STAB, which is really what you should use it for.
I've been using a special lead Pyroak to well effect, the set being
Pyroak (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Battle Armor
EVs: 252 HP/108 Def/4 Spd/144 SAtk
Bold nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Stealth Rock
- Fire Blast
- Grass Knot
- Shadow Ball/Roar/Protect/HP Ground
The defensive EVs I took from Fuzznips set, thanks Fuzz, and swtiched attack to special attack. Since its special I used Battle Armor over Rock Head, and Roar has been to switch out leads it can't handle, which are few and far between, but Im thinking of switching in HP Ground to tackle Nape and Tran.
I run Pyroak on my Stall team.
It's basically the Tank set from the set list with Flamethrower, Grass Knot, Leech Seed and Rest. He pairs really well with Aromatherapy Blissey to cure the sleep on Rest but more importantly, Pyroak can beat Stall VERY well with this set and Aromatherapy support.
Pyroak crushes Hippowdon with Grass Knot, Skarmory with Flamethrower, Blissey is beaten with Leech Seed and Rest, especially with Toxic Spike support (without, you benefit from a burning her so Lava Plume is a good idea).
Things like Celebi lose to Flamethrower and you can't be seeded yourself. Ghosts really can't hurt you much outside Shadow Ball with defense drops and can be seeded and hurt by Flamethrower.
Tentacruel is the only member of Stall who can give Pyroak problems but decently powerful Grass Knots with entry hazard support can let Pyroak win in the long run.
As for enemy spinners, if you use a Stall team, Forretress losses to Flamethrower, Donphan and Starmie to Grass Knot.
Finally, Leech Seed + Rest + Bulk lets Pyroak do well against "last pokemon" scenarios.
Pyroak greatly benefits from the tactics of Stall so perhaps he can replace Celebi on the Obi Stall team?
I am more impressed than I thought I would be with Pyroak, especially with the rep he's gotten so far.
Pyroak can use Leech Seed to phaze. It may be no perish song but it's awesome against things like Blissey so you can switch to someone else to grab those beefy seed drainings.
As for Starmie, if it comes in on 3 layers of Spikes, or Stealth Rocks and some Toxic Spikes, Grass Knot will OHKO with Sandstorm (even possible with just Rocks, though not a guarantee) so Starmie will have to Spin and die or attack and die.
So, a good player can use Hydro Pump as you switch Pyroak in, and then Hydro Pump again and Pyroak loses.
Yeah, you can't depend on getting three layers of spikes down before Starmie switches in.
Defensively, comparing Pyroak to Celebi:
double U-turn weakness
100 Speed / 100 Satk
Support options: Recover, Thunder Wave, Calm Mind, Baton Pass, Swords Dance, Trick, U-turn, Perish Song, Rain Dance
Offensive options: Earth Power, Psychic, Zen Headbutt, Grass Knot, Leaf Storm, Shadow Ball, Hidden Power
Stealth Rock weakness
45 Speed / 95 SAtk
Support options: Roar, Will-o-wisp, Lave Plume, Zap Cannon, Synthesis
Offensive options: Flamethrower, Fire Blast, Overheat, Brick Break, Grass Knot, Leaf Storm, Shadow Ball, Hidden Power
Non-exclusive support options: Stealth Rock, Light Screen, Reflect, Aromatherapy, Leech Seed, Toxic
Obviously, Celebi's huge support movepool is preferably in nearly all cases, unless you really need Burn support. Combine that with that serious Stealth Rock problem, and Celebi is simply better on a stall team unless you really need it to Roar (in which case Pyroak becomes comparable to Swampert, which resists Stealth Rock). You'd better have some very reliable Rapid Spin support if you plan to use Pyroak at all.
One last set I'm going to share, Dual Screen.
Pyroak (M) @ Light Clay / Leftovers
Ability: Battle Armor
EVs: 252 HP/129 Def/129 SDef
Bold nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Light Screen
- Leech Seed / Synthesis
- Lava Plume
Luckily, Pyroak has access to Reflect and Light Screen, and Pyroak can use them very effectively. With its awesome bulk, decent typing that offers many neutralities and only 3 weaknesses, and its many support options that can aid it to accomplish its tasks makes it a prime candidate as a dual screener.
I've used this Pyroak on my team accompanied by Lucario. Lucario resists Pyroak's Rock weakness by 4x and is immune to Poison, so it can easily switch in when the Screens are up and can attempt to Swords Dance safely and wreck teams.
Leech Seed and Synthesis are both reasonable healing options, but definitely not the best sadly. Lava Plume is a decent option for the last slot since it can burn Pokemon like Tyranitar and Metagross that feel like switching in. Leech Seed + Burn is already 24% damage each turn, so at least Pyroak can deal some sort of damage.
That's pretty much it. It's really amazing at the fact that Pyroak is pretty much never 2HKOed by anything barring its weaknesses, and the screens make it extremely tough to take down.
Again, there's no reason why one would use that over Celebi, but I'm just going to point out that the spread 252 / 136 / 120 gets you a free defence point.
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