Marty
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  • Is Mold Breaker supposed to negate the move-redirection effect of Lightning Rod / Storm Drain? And on an unrelated note, what is the effect across all gens for Flash Fire when the Pokemon is frozen?
    Marty
    Marty
    Yeah redirection is ignored.

    For Flash Fire, in Gen 3 and 4 being frozen makes you take damage from Fire moves (and they also thaw you), presumably because Ability immunity checks come after the accuracy check. Since Gen 5, Ability immunity checks come before the accuracy check, so you can't be thawed by them since Flash Fire prevents them earlier. Will-O-Wisp does nothing while the target's frozen, as you would expect, in all gens.
    Marty
    Marty
    Just to clarify that Will-O-Wisp part, I meant it won't thaw a frozen target; it fails in Gen 3 and 4 and gets absorbed by Flash Fire in Gen 5 and 6.
    Is a Pokemon in a semi-invulnerable state like Shadow Force supposed to dodge Future Sight (on the turn it's used) and thus prevent the attack from landing in the future?
    Marty
    Marty
    Nope. Is that happening on PS? :/
    Lyren
    Lyren
    Yes. I thought it seemed like a bug.
    If a Klutz Pokemon holds Mail, can it be stolen via Thief?
    ascriptmaster
    ascriptmaster
    What about Magician, then?
    Marty
    Marty
    There are no Mail items in Gen 6. They are probably not coming back either because the PSS exists now.
    Marty
    Marty
    But assuming there are any unstubbed, able to be hacked in, and still holdable, then Magician would act like Covet/Thief since it uses the same effect.
    Can you Knock Off a Plate in gen 6 from a Klutz Arceus? And while we're on the subject of Arceus mechanics, can Arceus without Plate use Trick or Thief to obtain a Plate? Can it Knock Off a Plate?
    ascriptmaster
    ascriptmaster
    Ahah. It should be pretty easy for me to fix the issue of Arceus knocking off a Plate, but I'll have to think about how to deal with Klutz since currently the plates are the ones preventing the item removal...
    ascriptmaster
    ascriptmaster
    What about using Knock Off against a Drive Klutz Genesect? And all the things relating to that that I asked about Arceus?
    Marty
    Marty
    Blue Orb, Red Orb, Griseous Orb, Plates, Drives, and Mega Stones are all the same in this regard. Ignoring the item has no effect on whether or not you can remove them from or give them to their respective species. The only effects ignored are the type boosts provided by the Griseous Orb and Plates, and the type changes to Judgment and Techno Blast from Plates and Drives.
    Are Sleeping pokemon able to be flinched? If so, and they do not wake up, which message is shown that states they can't move, asleep or flinch?
    Marty
    Marty
    You have to pass all these checks in order to use a move; it stops checking if one stops you, and it'll show the message for it. Gravity and Heal Block might be in the wrong order, but there's currently no way to tell since no moves exist that are blocked by both effects.

    Sleep/Freeze
    Truant
    Flinch
    Disable
    Heal Block
    Gravity
    Taunt
    Imprison
    Confusion
    Attract
    Paralysis

    This is why it's possible to flinch or hit yourself in confusion or whatever while frozen if you're using a move that will defrost you - it skips that check but not the others. Same idea for Sleep Talk/Snore and sleep.
    Lyren
    Lyren
    Okay, so sense the sleep check is first I guess it makes sense that the sleep message would get shown, but does this mean that if you were to finch while asleep, it would still count as trying to burn off a turn of the sleep counter, even if you weren't going to be able to move?
    Marty
    Marty
    Yeah, that's correct, because you went by the "fast asleep" part.
    Two semi-related questions about targetting your ally. If you target your ally but your ally fainted, what happens? What if an opponent uses Follow Me, given the same situation?
    Marty
    Marty
    Same thing that happens when there's no target ("But it failed!"). For Follow Me, it redirects to the Follow Me user as normal.

    It's impossible to target an empty position in Gen 3 and 4 though.
    What is supposed to happen if a Pokemon uses a move but there's no target? It still loses 1 PP, yes?
    Marty
    Marty
    Yep, whenever "POKEMON used MOVE!" happens, PP deduction happens.
    What are the conditions for Thousand Arrows to ignore effectiveness on Flying-type Pokemon? Is it their immunity to Ground, or their airborne property? For example, what happens to Ring Target Aerodactyl?
    Marty
    Marty
    I assume Gravity, Ingrain, and the "smacked down" effect just override Iron Ball's effect.
    ascriptmaster
    ascriptmaster
    So if I'm understanding this correctly, if a Pokemon is already grounded (Iron Ball, Gravity, Ingrain), Smack Down and Thousand Arrows don't smack them down. Is this for Flying types only, or are Levitaters subject to this rule as well?
    Marty
    Marty
    Yeah that part applies to Levitate as well. I just checked your PR again now (apparently I'm a little late) and the tests look good. Nice work!
    How does Pressure interact with Follow Me?
    Marty
    Marty
    Pressure doesn't affect Follow Me or Rage Powder. Didn't you ask me this a few weeks ago or was that someone else?
    ascriptmaster
    ascriptmaster
    I asked about field-targetting and side-targetting moves a few weeks ago.

    Also, to clarify my question, what I meant was: If a Follow Me Pokemon redirects a move to or away from a Pressure Pokemon, how much PP is deducted?
    Marty
    Marty
    Oh, I see. Well, since targeting is resolved before PP deduction, Pressure only applies to the final target after Follow Me/Rage Powder/Lightning Rod/Storm Drain redirect moves.

    Essentially, redirecting away from the original Pressure target deducts 1 and redirecting to it deducts 1 more.
    Is HP Flying supposed to work with Gale Wings?
    Marty
    Marty
    Nope. The game considers Hidden Power as Normal until you see "POKEMON used Hidden Power!", at which point it's too late for Gale Wings to be useful.
    Lyren
    Lyren
    That's what I guessed but I wanted to make sure!
    If you Mold Breaker Thunder Wave a Levitate mon in Misty Terrain or something, does it work?
    ascriptmaster
    ascriptmaster
    Also on the subject of Mold Breaker, what happens if a Mold Breaker mon gets dragged out by hitting a Red Card? Do Spikes activate on Levitate Pokemon in that case?
    Marty
    Marty
    Oh sorry, I answered on PS but you were gone already. Mold Breaker Thunder Wave on a Levitate Pokemon in Misty Terrain is blocked.

    For the Levitate thing, you mean what happens if the Mold Breaker Pokemon hits a Red Card and a Levitate Pokemon is dragged out? Since the Mold Breaker Pokemon is no longer active, Spikes do no damage.

    If a Mold Breaker Pokemon hits an Eject Button and a Levitate Pokemon comes out as the replacement, Spikes also do no damage.
    If you taunt someone in the middle of Geomancy, are they still locked in to the move?
    Marty
    Marty
    Yes. (For the benefit of others since I already told you.)
    Can Sleep Talk Belch happen ever?
    Marty
    Marty
    Oh I never finished my Sleep Talk tests for the descriptions! I got this far and then ORAS came out and I forgot all about it. http://hastebin.com/wujorepaja.txt

    Unfortunately in ORAS the move reminder and deleter aren't standing in the same house so it'll be even more annoying to finish these lists. :(
    ascriptmaster
    ascriptmaster
    So Belch is a no. Good to know.
    Bulbapedia and Veekun both claim that Gravity lowers evasion by two stages, but our implementation increases Accuracy based on the effect of -2 evasion, and thus would theoretically be wrong if a Pokemon were at any nonzero evasion stage.

    Which one is the correct implementation?
    ascriptmaster
    ascriptmaster
    Ok, so the effect of a -2 evasion (aka 5/3 in accuracy) but not actually doing anything to stat stages. I thought someone with -1 would have effectively -3 or something (and we now have ModifyBoost to deal with things like that)
    ascriptmaster
    ascriptmaster
    Kind of like how Foresight can have it so that someone might have +6 evasion, but it's treated as 0.
    Marty
    Marty
    Funnily enough, that was actually the original implementation on PS before I fixed all the Gravity effects (so it was possible to be at -8 evasiveness which was obviously very wrong).
    Do Spikes, Toxic Spikes, and Sticky Web check groundedness, or Ground immunity?
    Marty
    Marty
    Groundedness. I first thought Inverse Battles were the first time this could have been verified, but Ring Target existed in Gen 5. Of course, this only applies to Flying types since every other Ground immunity-removing effect actually grounds you.
    Do Terrain effects activate on Pokemon in the middle of Dive, Dig, Phantom Force, or Shadow Force?
    ascriptmaster
    ascriptmaster
    Bulbapedia seriously needs better fact checking then...
    Marty
    Marty
    What do you mean? It says they affect Pokemon "on the ground and not in the semi-invulnerable turn of a move" for all three Terrains.
    ascriptmaster
    ascriptmaster
    Oh, I misread your comment. Sorry!
    Pokemon is repeatedly using a move while holding the Metronome. Magic Room activates. When Magic Room fades, what happens to the Metronome counter?
    Marty
    Marty
    The counter goes up regardless of the item being ignored, whether it starts being ignored before or during the consecutive uses.
    Marty
    Marty
    In fact, the item isn't the thing keeping count at all. Tricking a Metronome to something that has used a move repeatedly starts the next one at whatever power it would have had if it was holding Metronome the whole time.
    Cloud Nine Golduck uses Rain Dance during Harsh Sun/Heavy Rain/Strong Wind. What happens?
    Marty
    Marty
    It fails due to the extreme weather. The Abilities are what keeps them active, after all (Mold Breaker doesn't ignore them either, though).
    ascriptmaster
    ascriptmaster
    All right then. What about Castform vs Cloud Nine? Will it revert to normal if Sun or something is suppressed?
    Marty
    Marty
    Yeah Castform and Cherrim revert while a Cloud Nine user is active. That's already implemented properly last time I checked.
    fsr I can't post in the thread on phone so: the healing wish / lunar dance thing is still incorrectly implemented on smogtours (I used a ld cress in week 9 of tour) which is why I assumed it wasn't functional
    Marty
    Marty
    No problem! It's weird if SmogTours doesn't have it, it should be using the latest code. I'll see about bugging someone to fix that. Also the Outrage thing will be fixed next update (on the main server at least)!
    Marty
    Marty
    Oh I found the replay you were talking about. No idea why it didn't work last month, but it does work on SmogTours now.
    BKC
    BKC
    awesome, thanks!
    Marty D thanks for the clarification about the pledge combo mechanics. May you still confirm whether the typing determination of this combo is bugged on PS! or not? As I posted on the bugs thread:

    Fire + Grass -> Fire-type
    Fire + Water -> Water-type
    Grass + Water -> Grass-type

    the order in which it happens is irrelevant. Is this true / Is PS bugged, or is this all just misinformation?
    Marty
    Marty
    Yeah, that's true. Also the combo is used by the second Pokemon to move and always has STAB no matter what the user's type is (even if neither Pokemon has one of the combo types). The tests done on Pledge moves in BW were misleading and led to that implementation, but they do actually have the same mechanics as in XY. The more you know!
    Pocket
    Pocket
    wow okay - thanks for the clarification! Is it also true that these pledge combos ignore defensive boosts and resistances? Does this mean that they ignore offensive boosts (including item boosts) and super effective damage, too? What about immunities from Flash Fire, Storm Drain, Sap Sipper?
    Marty
    Marty
    Nope, the combos don't ignore any of that stuff. For the most part they act like any standard move (besides the STAB thing). However, Water Pledge can't be redirected by Storm Drain, comboed or not (the Storm Drain Pokemon will still be immune and get the boost if you did target it though).
    Are you still planning on exploring the whole "airborne" thing? You mentioned it when I brought up Spikes in Inverse. I'll have WiFi for the next three weeks so if you do I'd love to help out~ also I need to redeem myself for my screwup ._.
    Marty
    Marty
    That was pretty much the extent of it, actually. Being airborne and being immune to Ground are related but different; you can negate the Ground immunity without actually being grounded, but you can't be grounded and immune to Ground.
    Marty
    Marty
    This really only applies to Flying-types anyway (Ring Target, and now Inverse Battles) because you can't negate Ground immunity from Levitate or other such effects without fully grounding the Pokemon (Mold Breaker doesn't count).
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