Smogon Community - View Single Post - (Archive) Small Subjective Changes Thread

wildfire393 · Jun 17th, 2009, 9:27:43 PM

It should be known and fixed (I told Caelum this, but I'm just making sure) that the entries for Choice Band, Choice Scarf, and Choice Specs are currently incorrect. They list the interaction of Choice Item + Trick (or Switcheroo) to be the way it behaved under the glitched ShoddyBattle (a Pokemon that uses trick and gets another Choice Item can pick a new move).

This should be fixed to be in line with the way Trick + Choice actually behaves (the way that Trick and Switcheroo say it), where a Pokemon that uses Trick and receives a Choice Item from it is locked into Trick as their next move.

The current text is:

"If a Pokémon with this item is Tricked or uses Trick, it can select a new move next turn, even if the item that was given to it is another Choice item. If, however, the Trick comes before they use a move, then the Pokémon is still locked in as though no Trick had taken place. For example, Alakazam uses Trick, but both Pokémon are holding a Choice Scarf, then Garchomp uses Swords Dance (in the same turn), Garchomp would have to use Swords Dance next turn, but Alakazam could do anything."

A correct version of this text would be:

"If a Pokémon is given this item via the move Trick or Switcheroo before it makes its move for the turn, it is locked into the move that it picked. If it is given the item via Trick or Switcheroo after it has already made its move, it is free to choose another move.
If a Pokémon uses the move Trick or Switcheroo and obtains a Choice Item from it, it is locked into Trick/Switcheroo and must pick it next turn.
For example, if Alakazam uses Trick on a Garchomp and both Pokémon are holding a Choice Scarf, then Garchomp uses Swords Dance, then both Pokémon are locked into their selected move next turn, Trick and Swords Dance respectively.
If Alakazam was originally holding a Choice Specs, and was thus slower, so Garchomp Swords Dances, then Alakazam Tricks Choice Specs for Choice Scarf, Alakazam will be stuck using Trick, while Garchomp is free to choose any move"

This seems especially pertinent as OmegaDonut just lost the finals Match of VGC because he thought trick worked the way it used to on Shoddy.

The affected articles are:
http://www.smogon.com/dp/items/choice_specs
http://www.smogon.com/dp/items/choice_band
http://www.smogon.com/dp/items/choice_scarf

And the affected pargraph is the fourth (and final) paragraph of each article.

Reference for the correct interaction between TrickChoice:
http://www.smogon.com/dp/moves/trick
http://www.smogon.com/dp/moves/switcheroo

You are free to choose to use the text from Trick/Switcheroo in place of mine, mine was just an example. For reference's sake, the relevant text from Trick is:

"If a Pokémon with a Choice Band, Choice Scarf, or Choice Specs is Tricked by / uses Trick on a Pokémon that does not have a Choice item itself, the Pokémon that has the Choice item after the Trick will be free to use whatever move it wants on the next turn only if it went first. That Pokémon will be free to select whichever move it likes regardless of whether it was originally the Pokémon with the Choice item. The Pokémon that moved second will always be locked into whatever move it used on the turn it was Tricked if it is the one holding the Choice item after the Trick. However, if both Pokémon are holding a Choice item, and either Pokémon uses Trick, then both Pokémon will be locked in to whatever move they used on the turn of the Trick(s).

For example, if Choice Scarf Jirachi is facing Choice Scarf Bronzong, and Jirachi uses Trick while Bronzong uses Stealth Rock, Jirachi will be stuck using Trick the next turn, and Bronzong will be stuck using Stealth Rock and therefore have virtually no reason to stay in, meaning Jirachi, if it decides to stay in, will have no choice but to Trick the Choice Scarf onto the incoming Pokémon (unless it has Sticky Hold or Multitype). To expound on this, if the Bronzong user switches in Swampert to the Trick, Jirachi would be free to use whatever it wants. But if it uses Trick again and Swampert stays in to do whatever, then the next turn, Jirachi will be forced to use Trick, and not something like Reflect or U-turn."

Jun 17th, 2009, 9:27:43 PM	#7
wildfire393 Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 648	It should be known and fixed (I told Caelum this, but I'm just making sure) that the entries for Choice Band, Choice Scarf, and Choice Specs are currently incorrect. They list the interaction of Choice Item + Trick (or Switcheroo) to be the way it behaved under the glitched ShoddyBattle (a Pokemon that uses trick and gets another Choice Item can pick a new move). This should be fixed to be in line with the way Trick + Choice actually behaves (the way that Trick and Switcheroo say it), where a Pokemon that uses Trick and receives a Choice Item from it is locked into Trick as their next move. The current text is: "If a Pokémon with this item is Tricked or uses Trick, it can select a new move next turn, even if the item that was given to it is another Choice item. If, however, the Trick comes before they use a move, then the Pokémon is still locked in as though no Trick had taken place. For example, Alakazam uses Trick, but both Pokémon are holding a Choice Scarf, then Garchomp uses Swords Dance (in the same turn), Garchomp would have to use Swords Dance next turn, but Alakazam could do anything." A correct version of this text would be: "If a Pokémon is given this item via the move Trick or Switcheroo before it makes its move for the turn, it is locked into the move that it picked. If it is given the item via Trick or Switcheroo after it has already made its move, it is free to choose another move. If a Pokémon uses the move Trick or Switcheroo and obtains a Choice Item from it, it is locked into Trick/Switcheroo and must pick it next turn. For example, if Alakazam uses Trick on a Garchomp and both Pokémon are holding a Choice Scarf, then Garchomp uses Swords Dance, then both Pokémon are locked into their selected move next turn, Trick and Swords Dance respectively. If Alakazam was originally holding a Choice Specs, and was thus slower, so Garchomp Swords Dances, then Alakazam Tricks Choice Specs for Choice Scarf, Alakazam will be stuck using Trick, while Garchomp is free to choose any move" This seems especially pertinent as OmegaDonut just lost the finals Match of VGC because he thought trick worked the way it used to on Shoddy. The affected articles are: http://www.smogon.com/dp/items/choice_specs http://www.smogon.com/dp/items/choice_band http://www.smogon.com/dp/items/choice_scarf And the affected pargraph is the fourth (and final) paragraph of each article. Reference for the correct interaction between TrickChoice: http://www.smogon.com/dp/moves/trick http://www.smogon.com/dp/moves/switcheroo You are free to choose to use the text from Trick/Switcheroo in place of mine, mine was just an example. For reference's sake, the relevant text from Trick is: "If a Pokémon with a Choice Band, Choice Scarf, or Choice Specs is Tricked by / uses Trick on a Pokémon that does not have a Choice item itself, the Pokémon that has the Choice item after the Trick will be free to use whatever move it wants on the next turn only if it went first. That Pokémon will be free to select whichever move it likes regardless of whether it was originally the Pokémon with the Choice item. The Pokémon that moved second will always be locked into whatever move it used on the turn it was Tricked if it is the one holding the Choice item after the Trick. However, if both Pokémon are holding a Choice item, and either Pokémon uses Trick, then both Pokémon will be locked in to whatever move they used on the turn of the Trick(s). For example, if Choice Scarf Jirachi is facing Choice Scarf Bronzong, and Jirachi uses Trick while Bronzong uses Stealth Rock, Jirachi will be stuck using Trick the next turn, and Bronzong will be stuck using Stealth Rock and therefore have virtually no reason to stay in, meaning Jirachi, if it decides to stay in, will have no choice but to Trick the Choice Scarf onto the incoming Pokémon (unless it has Sticky Hold or Multitype). To expound on this, if the Bronzong user switches in Swampert to the Trick, Jirachi would be free to use whatever it wants. But if it uses Trick again and Swampert stays in to do whatever, then the next turn, Jirachi will be forced to use Trick, and not something like Reflect or U-turn."